Some thoughts about "classic" boating...

[EricG]

The other evening while idling away from the launch in the 18, I had an epiphany. In order to get my life vests out before we could get on plane, I had to do the standard "Classic Dance":

Get my passenger to move.
Move Fenders to back seat (they are normally stowed under the outside of each front seat while running).
Slide the 2 front seats back and turn them sideways so i can get between them.
Have passenger move again.
Crawl underneath the dash.
Move Throwable cushion to the back seat.
Get vest 1.
Move the towel bag out of the way.
Get vest 2.
Get throwable stowed back under dash.
Have Passenger Move again.
Crawl out.
Reposition seats.
Tell Passenger to sit down.
Stow Fenders.
Off we go....

So, this little dance got me thinking. I've been around boats my whole life, I'm on my 4th personally, but they have always been slightly odd boats, as I can't possibly follow the crowd.
My 13' whaler was functional as long as you liked sitting on a picnic table bench just in front of a 6 gallon pressurized bomb while inhaling 2 stroke fumes.
My 18' Century Resorter had a lot of room, as long as you didn't mind sitting around a 200 degree small block fire pit...and you didn't want to go over 20 knots in anything more than 6" chop. But it did have a column shift gear selector.
My Z21 was actually very functional, as long as you didn't want to store anything, or converse while boating (gotta love the side exit exaust).
And now I have the 18, which works wonderfully for 2 adults as long as after a swim they don't mind climbing up the outdrive before slipping back in to the water on the freshly waxed deck, not to mention the previously mentioned "dance".

The one thing I have never owned is a 18-22' Bowrider "Well-tron Sea-Liner", you know, the boat you see 10 thousand times every weekend, usually covered with smiling folks and always some sort of inflatable torture device strapped to the back. So I have to know, while they may be jealous of my noisy and relatively fast classic "speedboat", is it possible they are actually having more fun?

Just something to ponder...

EG

[Morgan's Cloud]

I guess all boats regardless of their size , type or price are a compromise in one way or another.
Having spent many years as a kid on a very similar boat to the Boston Whaler I got a real kick out of your description :tongue:

[Digger]

nicely captured there Eric... and no, they're not having more fun than you because their boat is roughly 0.1 % as cool as yours :beer:

[Cuda]

I have a big 18 center console, which is far and away the most versatile, and easiest boat to deal with.

I have the 302 Formula, where storage and moving around isn't a problem.

I have the Donzi Minx that has some dance to it.

Then there's the 22. I'm sorry, but versatality, ease of use, and storage not being a big selling point, there is nothing I enjoy riding in more than that 22. It's just different. :)

[chappy]

I owned a 1987 20 foot Sea Ray. Great boat. While floating one day, I witnessed a 60+ mph fly by as a result of an 18 2+3. I own one of those boats now. Maybe a disease, maybe a passion, maybe a good choice.
Stick to the dancing,
Rich:cool:

[boldts]

Eric, When I had my 69 18' Classic for over 12 years me and friends did the "Classic Dance". We wouldn't have traded those days sking behind that boat for any bow rider we ever saw. While a bow rider might be more roomy and yes, you could add thru hull exhaust as most don't come from the factory with it, there isn't any more storage space. To my knowledge, it's all under the seats your passengers are sitting on. So, the dance continues. Biggest difference in a bow rider 18' and a Classic 18 is that while on the water and at the launch ramp, everyone will be wishing they could have your boat.

Now if you have bigger pockets, the 28' ZXO with twins is a very cool Donzi in my book. Twin Scorps makes it even better. Just my opinion and yes, everyone has one.

[need for speed]

I have had a few boats, but I have to say I LOVE MY 22.
i started out life with a little 8 ft Zodiac fun but the transom fell off a few years later.. then onto a 14ft boat with a 15merc .. still have that ...
then went on to
13 whaler great boat but my ass can still feel that seat

16 chapparal closed bow 90mec fun boat too, wish it was a Donzi at the time
17 cc mako fun boat, but i don't fish.
Sea doo jet ski fun for a summer then had to move on got tired of riding her.
19 Mastercraft fun to ski and have hot girls jumping in and out of the water!!
19 correct craft fun to ski and have more hotties..

22 donzi... AWESOME..then got married....
then second 22 best boat ever, still married.:wink:
I work around boats every day and i can say big boats are a pain in the ass... i plan on staying in the little 22 family for a long time!!

[EricG]

Thanks all for the comments - I just think this is an interesting discussion. I guess I do need to clarify - I have no interest in a "Normal" boat...and thank god my wife absolutly hates bowriders :yes:.

One recurring theme here though: Most everyone that has chimed in either has multiple boats (Cuda), a much larger boat (digger and cuda) or has a 22 (cuda, again....damn:wink: ). Which as we all know, has quite a bit more functional space/freeboard than an 18. Even Scott who came to the defense of the 18 actually moved up to a 22 for awhile.

One recurring theme has been that the 18 is so much cooler than other boats, and everytime I look at my boat I feel the same way. I just love looking at it, waxing it, owning it. But....especially after having a bigger, more comfortable boat (Z21), I'm just a little down on actually "using" it these days. I don't plan on selling it though, because even if I don't use it much, it really is too cool to get rid of:yes:

So, is anyone out there a 16 or 18 boater exclusively...and happy that way?

This is coming out a bit negative, but I'm not trying to...I just love hearing other's opinions...

EG

[DonziJon]

Something I've noticed over the years..and for me there have been a few of them, ...and a few boats. When you're younger, I think you tend to buy the boat you feel everyone ELSE will appreciate. "I'm cool.. I'm cool". You start out small (budget) and keep working UP:..Bigger..Faster..More Horsepower... Whatever.

Then if you're still in the game when you get Older.. you get what YOU WANT...to hell with what other people think. That's what I did. It comes with "seasoning". DONZI..Jon:cool!:

[MOP]

Eric you need a "Bonnie" she ties the fenders on while I get the boat loose from its trailer bindings and put the plug in, I launch she ties up, get preservers out and onto the seats, I start it we don our preservers she unties we take off and she stows the fenders and hands me a cold bottle of water.

Phil

[CHACHI]

Eric you need a "Bonnie" she ties the fenders on while I get the boat loose from its trailer bindings and put the plug in, I launch she ties up, get preservers out and onto the seats, I start it we don our preservers she unties we take off and she stows the fenders and hands me a cold bottle of water.
Philshe's a good girl. Ken

[Digger]

The real magic is being on the water... regardless of what size/type boat... I think you can build a strong argument that the classic is the perfect boat. We've thought long and hard about replacing my boat with a 22 because of the huge reduction in operating costs and logistics... A classic is easy to clean, easy to trailer, and taking care of one motor has half the worries of taking care of two.

The soul cleansing aspect of being out on the water is hard to quantify... everything is better out there. Somehow the food tastes better, the beer feels colder, conversation is more relaxed and friendly. The other week Darcy and I were out in the Atlantic off Cape Henry, just drifting with the current on one of those rare calm days with no swell and barely a whisper of a breeze rippling the water. It was so quiet we could hear the buoy bells. We could hear the dolphins breathe as they went by. The hot sun felt wonderful. At that point it really wasn't about the boat at all.. it was about being out there.

Eric enjoy your Donzi. Take it out every chance you get and revel in the freedom to do with it what you please. :beer:

[Team Jefe]

As is always the case, Digger has the best word on the subject.

I Love Donzi's...I now own 2 and am a walking billboard for all things Donzi.

I have also owned and been around several kinds of boats in my life. and I had a great time on all of them. Eric, Donzi's are WAY cooler than most all other boats, the history, the prestige, the admiration is great. Still, Digger said it. It is the water time that counts. I gar-un-tee you If all I had was a worn out Bayliner Bowrider with a 90horse Force, I'd been on it all day long have a great time:yes:

All that said the 22 calssic get looks everywhere we go...especially if it has an outboard:wink:

[Surfer]

Eric, you are taking the same route as most boaters from kid on up (I started with a 13.5' Mckee). At some point that adult mind wants to force you think about what is pratical...house, car, finances ect... but as I grow older the thought of "screw it" I want to do whats fun, need a thrill, ect is most important. The 18' is probably the most impractical boat around, but I have had more fun, given myself more of a rush, than any of the other six, more practical boats, I've owned in the past.

[Ed Donnelly]

If we are talking impractible, The Criterion SS wins hands down. Just ask the members who own them. Hell, there is more room in a 16' With 3 people on board, you can't even stand up,let alone move around.Would any of the owners sell thiers for something more practible? NO WAY there is nothing out there to compete in the COOL factor. Just go out and enjoy your time on the water......Ed

[EricG]

It's funny several of you have menioned your spouse's participation in the "dance". Here was my wife's email to me yesterday when I forwarded this to her:


"One little thing I must point out about your "classic dance", you apparently had a real passenger that was a guest vs your "wife" who does all that crap for you and all you do is sit straight ahead driving :-)

So maybe now you can understand my frustration of boating in our current boat, it is a lot of running from bow to stern (thankfully it is only 18ft) and at any given moment while running for either a line, bumper, or backseat (that is blowing out) I could easily trip over the storage hatch and go overboard due to the lack of freeboard......................ha ha ha!!!"

I introduced her to boating in the 21, and she really enjoyed that "type" of boating, bigger water, nice sunpad over the motor, being able to stand-up while running (freeboard), so going from that down the 18 has been a little tougher. But, every time I even mention selling it, she says NO - we will keep it and get a bigger boat too :hyper:. So now it's just the waiting game to find some $$$ to make that dream come true. For now, we'll just keep dancin' - and feeling fortunate that we at least have all that we have:yes:

EG

[Cuda]

Luckily. my first mate needs very little direction. Any of the boats, we've about got it down to a science. I'd rather have Deb ride with me than anyone else, experienced or not. :)

[gcarter]

Elaine grew up in competition ski boats. They're mostly open. Rides real flat, don't lean, and pretty dry.
The Minx has been a challenge to her.

[sanleonkid]

nicely captured there Eric... and no, they're not having more fun than you because their boat is roughly 0.1 % as cool as yours :beer:


Cool like Ross on Friends in his leather pants?

[Lenny]

Eric, quite honestly... I would NEVER sell my X18, unless, no actually, NEVER.

Nor, with an extra 100K$ would I buy a larger one.

With unlimited money, I would buy a new 18 with procharged 350 MAG MPI power.

The 18 is simply,... the most FUN boat I have ever been in or driven. PERIOD.

Nothing has ever compared to this rig and its' handling and basic "FUN" quotient...

The Formula Junior does definately rank in the mix with the 18. I find the FJ more "bouyant" and surfaces better and flys straighter on top.

Awesome boats,...period. Forget the rest. I had a couple today from California stop me to "chat". They were in their 60-70's and knew the boat. Another, large yacht, did the same... today. About 20 compliments in all today from people that tower over me in my "life" financial accomplishments. They see it for what I do, and it trancends all this other $hit.

They are simply some of, or one of, the coolest boats EVER made. PERIOD.

That says it all...

:)

[Ed Donnelly]

Scott; Funny you should say that. I was talking to the wife the other day, and she asked me what I would buy if I ever sold the Criterion(just a big hassle with 3 kids and no room) and I told her, the only boat I would consider is an X18........Ed

[DonCig]

Eric, I have heard a few comments in the past about my ability to pack everything, including the kitchen sink, in a moving vehicle. The comments are accurate.
Part of my Boy Scout upbringing I believe.
On Lake Powell my son and I took my 18 on an overnight camping trip. I will make a list in a minute of what we carried in the boat. But I also observed that there was no way that three people were going to go camping in my boat, it was deffinately a two person boatwith gear transport thrown in. That is the way I like to boat, myself and one other person.
And yes I do own a few boats longer than 18', but the Classic 18 is the one that lights my fire.
Items we actually carried in our 18 ' Classic Donzi.
1. 1 metal fire grate
2. 1 bag of mesquite wood for the grill.
3. One bottle of Lighter Fluid
4. Lighter
5. Coleman propane stove with two extra propane bottles
6. Coleman Propane lantern
7. Flashlight
8. Pup tent for 2
9. 2 lightweight sleeping bags
10. Ground cloth for under the tent
11. 2 - 5gallon collapsed water jugs
12. Aluminum foil
13. Utensiles and tongs for the grills
14. Slalom ski
15. Ski rope
16. 2 folding metal camp chairs
17. 3 soft sided coolers with food and drink inside
18, fishing rod
19. Tackle Box
20. 2 Thermarest inflatable bed rolls
21. Trash Bags for our trash
22. Paper Towells
23. Coffee pot
24. Food
25. Bag with sunglasses and sun screen
26. Canon SLR camera bag
27. Video Camera
28. GPS unit
29. VHF radio

[onesubdrvr]

Lenny for President :) :)
Sums it up really.. I plan to be buried in my X-18... I'll give up my Criterion in a heartbeat..
Well, if you're given it up,....I've got a case of Red Stripe :yes: , and a 9 year old with a 15 year old attitude :eek!: to trade, and I'll throw in the X too!!!:wink:

Oh yea, the kid is optional,... don't take her if you can't handle her :wink: :propeller

Wayne

[roadtrip se]

For the days when I'm not loading up to go camping, DON... I like to call it the Igloo dance.

Invite the uninitiated for a day out on the water and here they come down the dock with the water floaty toys, bags of towels and clothes, and a 250 quart Igloo on wheels rolling behind them. It can be pretty traumatic as we consolidate everything down to my twelve pack-size cooler and our tie off boat bag.

So after having this happen to us more than once, we now volunteer to bring the supplies for the day. As a concession to the "we must bring everything boating with us in the bow rider crowd", I do keep some noodles stuffed up under the bow for floating in the cove.

My point is that Classic-style boating is about leaving all of the clutter and stuff that the world pushes on you every day behind and getting down to the basics of pure, unadulterated, adrenaline-inducing, and focused fun. Nothing else like it and I'm with Lenny, a big pay day would just mean more upgrades or another Donzi for the stable!

[boatnut]

Not to sound too old, but I have owned lots of boats. However I also spent over 20 years owning only one boat, first a '67 18' classic, and then a '69 18' classic. Not once in all those years did I long for the more roomy speedboats we had when I was a kid, or the bowriders that we passed as they jealously watched a "Donzi" (unique on the west coast in the earlier years) jump their wake. We skied behind the classic, even camped out of it, we adapted to the room with never a second thought. When I first saw one I wanted one, once I got one I could never go without one. (maybe they should be a controlled substance??)
I now have several boats at one time (too many toys not enough time, or energy), that range in size from 10' to 42'. The 18' classic is still the most fun on the water per pound or per dollar that exists. (yes the 22' comes in second). I have a 22' Whaler that is much more functional (esp for the dog and the grandkids, fishing, wakeboarding etc.) It has storage everywhere and better build quality than a late Donzi, but a comparison is like asking if you like your station wagon or SUV better than your 911 Carrera? The response is " for delivering the kids to little league, or for a drive in the mountains". What is more fun to use, a Harley or a one-ton van that hauls 12 passengers?

Lots of room in a boat means that over time the room will be stuffed with things you don't need anyway. To use, clean, maintain, peer envy, speed with safety in rough water conditions, and with a large wake board wake to jump as a bonus --- a classic Donzi is quite a package. Another added bonus is that the classics are one of the few boats that you can spend hours just looking at after you tie it up at a waterfront bar--- they are beautiful (esp the 22). Note the smile on the face on anyone driving one versus the sad look of envy on the face of the bowrider skipper with 7 kids, a wife, and a brother-in-law trying to tell him where to go while he tows three other kids in a tube. (the preceeding was an unbiased opinion :wink: ) Ed

[onesubdrvr]

Scott; Funny you should say that. I was talking to the wife the other day, and she asked me what I would buy if I ever sold the Criterion(just a big hassle with 3 kids and no room) and I told her, the only boat I would consider is an X18........Ed
Ed,

The offer goes for you too :wink:

In all seriousness, Having had the Ragazza, an 8 passanger bow rider, even in that there is alot of "dance" going on. Let's face it, with the exception of BIG boats, a boat is a boat,....gonna go fishing, get a CC, Gonna drag around a ton of people, and go camping? Get a 'toon boat. I envision myself with a toon or deck boat for the "family" weekends, and hey, I can fish the river here on it too, and the X (or Ed's Critterion) as "Daddy's Corvette", something I can admire in the garage, keep the wax on, or speed across the water when I can, even if it's only a couple of times a year. The plus of the X is I CAN bring the some of the family, or none, and have a blast either way. For what it is - the classic, simplify, 2 fenders, moring lines, SMALL cooler (or relocate the battery and use the battery box as a cooler) and not much else. You want to be able to walk around, play cards, cook out, go something else. I dare say, there could literally be a boat for each day of the week or each and every use, but if you ain't got time to use 'em, simplify, and pick the best all around.

:boat:
Wayne

[boldts]

Eric, yes, I moved up from an 18' Classic to a 22, but at the time, my daughter was younger and one of the biggest reasons at the time was more freeboard in a 22' Classic. (OK, there is the reason I told the then wife we needed the boat) After buying the 22, I took it down to the Eufaula gathering. While there, I rode in a 16' Classic with the side seat that Greg K owned. Way cool boats for the one day boating trip on a smooth lake. Then the Poodle took me for a ride in his X-18. What a flashback to the days of my 18'. Like riding a roller coaster on rails. Wind in the face. What a thrill.

As I look back, at the days of 18 ownership, we did the camping thing like Don. Down at Cumberland with the boat filled to the helt with gear and hoping we could find a cliff with enough slope we could climb it. Had a great weekend though. I've also brought the 18 down and done the houseboat. Much easier, more comfortable, but still used the 18 for skiing and small trips to different locations on the lake. Again a fun weekend.

Not saying the 22 wasn't also a great time on the lake. Like Digger said, it's all about being out on the water and away from the stress in our lives. Interesting comments from my daughter though who we thought we were buying the 22 for in the first place. While she and dad enjoyed the additional speed of the 22, my daughter actually liked the 18 better because of the wind in the face factor. In general, even though the speedo didn't show it, the 18 felt every bit as fast as the 22. Once you've owned a Donzi and been away from it, you know that one day, you have to get back into one. I may have to start with a sixteen next time, but I'll have another Donzi in my life at some point. :)

[EricG]

Well put Scott. I do feel that I do not want to get rid of the 18, even to move up to a larger boat....just because it's paid for, it runs great, and I know that I will not ever be able to replace it with one so perfect for me for the same amount of $$$.

My father and I were discussing this the other day. He's got a MasterCraft up at the cabin, and while it is a completely 1 dimensional boat (nothing like sitting backwards as a passenger) - for the location and use, it is absolutely perfect. We would never want anything else. There have been times I've felt like that with the 18 - when I find that perfect water. But when I hit Lake Washington and get thrown around in the washing machine for awhile, I find myself wanting for something bigger...

I guess it was all summed up in this article from Power and Motoryacht a few years ago:

http://powerandmotoryacht.com/columns/spectator/0501spectator/ (Boats are like Golf Clubs part 1)

http://powerandmotoryacht.com/columns/spectator/0601spectator/ (Boats are like Golf Clubs part 2)

-EG

[Cuda]

It's very simple. Just collect eight boats!

Actually, I'm down to six. I could get along with just four.

1) 22 Donzi for the river and ICW riding.
2) 18 Biddison for when I want to fish or swim, it's much easier to get in and out of, and only takes a few minutes to clean.
3) My 302 Formula for poker runs, or bigger water, I can overnight in it too.
4) My jon boat, just because everybody should have one. :)

[Formula Jr]

My future wife is busy right now sewing up new covers for the SeaSwirl. And they are looking great. This would be a boat for us, just to be on the water. Easy and cheap to use, potty, cuddy cabin if things get bad, and always the over night option....... and did I mention they are cheap. The JR is mine, its not something we will ever share driven the way it should be. You all know this. You can't run the way you do in your private play boat the way you run in the boat you share with your spouse, unless I'm missing something here.. they are just not into the "maybe it will tee-pole if I stuff it, but who cares?" kind of running. So two boats is the solution. The Alpha can be the 18, and that is a total guy thing and very fun, and so also can be the gentle run with the one you love. Diamonds and Glass, happens either way.

Owen

[Cuda]

We are taking my SUV boat to South Carolina tomorrow to do some fishing. Yesterday, I pulled and cleaned all the plugs, changed the fuel filter, etc, so we took it out for a shakedown cruise. We put it in the river, then ran down to Silver Glen to hang out with some friends, and came back. It was rough coming back across Lake George, and I was glad I was in the CC. I've had it for 18 years, and I know the boat can take more than I can, and it's a comfortable feeling knowing that there is nothing Lake George can throw at me that this boat hasn't already been through. On top of that, it's so much easier to get in and out of once we reach the Glen. I can also carry more passengers if I need to (though I'm not big on playing water taxi). I still say Deb's 22 is the most fun boat, but my CC is far and away my most versatile boat.

Shots from yesterday.
Oh yeah, there was a Formula 20 Sc that was just like the one I just sold tied up next to my buddy out there. Made me sad to see it. Selling boats is like selling children to me. Tears my heart out. :)

[Carl C]

Hey Cuda, your wife's gonna kill you for posting that last pic!:rlol:

[Lenny]

they are just not into the "maybe it will tee-pole if I stuff it, but who cares?" kind of running.


MAN, YOU GOTTA LOVE THAT FEELING :yes: :D: :D: :D:

After doing that everyday for about the last 9 days, I believe I have satisfied my hunger for that kind of running, and should now be OK for the next few days. Might be able to actually get some work done in the shop once again :)

I can't believe the Volvo is still "hanging" off the back to be quite honest :D: Many a time in the last week I figured that it wasn't going to land back onto the transom assembly and stay there...but it has

[Formula Jr]

To be clearer on input to Eric's question, I think the ideal is to have our blaster boats, and then one other that is pure utility. Brand name on the more gentle boat does not matter just so it has all the stuff needed to make the experience comfortable for our partners. I value my cheap ass Swirl because it does this mission well. And I don't care if a kid rips the interior, or something get's spilled or broken- I expect that: Its my all weather socker mom van. And you can buy a nice one with trailer for about 4K. You can buy another $$$ "performace" boat with all the stuff, but what's the point to that if you already have an 18? Different tools for different tasks.

[Lenny]

Owen, there is also the fact that, NOT TOO MANY boats, offer up this kind of enjoyment, and let you feel, truly free... The sound, the stares, the performance, the handling.

Late night run home on Thursday. (Got in at 11pm, then came home and flushed it :D ... Neighbour the other day said, "Lenny, wanna play charades ??? ... Sure I said... OK, what am I he says, followed by WHAP WHAP WHAP WHAP WHAP :D :D :D ) I tried to explain that I HAD TO rinse out the salt, he wasn't buying it. ;)

[roadtrip se]

You can't run the way you do in your private play boat the way you run in the boat you share with your spouse, unless I'm missing something here.. they are just not into the "maybe it will tee-pole if I stuff it, but who cares?" kind of running, happens either way.
Owen

Jill just spent all day Monday blasting around with Gero and I in a Blackhawk
at Dale Hollow. The grin only came out when the nose got up where it should be, air it out would ya.

Jill has her very own Lifeline and wears it. Does she want to use it? No, but c'mon drive the boat, girly boy.

Jill can tell by the ride, speed, and handling characteristics which prop is spinning on the back of the SE. She also knows when something isn't quite right and has the sense to bale out when the "Ole Diablo" Mirage 29 gets bolted to the transom during a momentary lapse of reason.

Jill can launch and de-launch a big offshore any time. Her tow vehicle and daily driver both burn diesel. A new floating aluminum trailer for the Classic has been a bit of a challenge, but she's got it down.

I guess Jill just isn't the typical Donzi girl, but "SUV" boating certainly wouldn't fit her style...

[Formula Jr]

You ARE a LUCKY man! :wink: