TRS gearcase split

[FUELPOWERED]

I need to separate the gearcase housing from the main part of the outdrive to facilitate skeg buildup/repair. When I reassemble them, do I have to shim or time anything?

[LKSD]

I need to separate the gearcase housing from the main part of the outdrive to facilitate skeg buildup/repair. When I reassemble them, do I have to shim or time anything?


Only if you take out the gears & shafts from the lower. Then you would want to check the clearances during reassembly. Dont forget to replace the o rings between the drive halves!! Jamie / Lakeside :)

[BigGrizzly]

Ihis is easy take out the 6 nuts drain the lower first. Do the o rings like JW said as for shimming well the spiral bevel geaea are already set after 20 years and it would give you more trouble if it has to be changed and I don't care what the manual says this isn't a stinking Bravo that is a real lower unit you have there

[FUELPOWERED]

I'll heed your advice fellas. Thanks a bunch. My goal is to possibly someday replace the TRS drive with a Konrad and get it to keep up with or outrun the 310 horse Bravos. I'll never ditch the velvet drive. Ever.

[LKSD]

I'll heed your advice fellas. Thanks a bunch. My goal is to possibly someday replace the TRS drive with a Konrad and get it to keep up with or outrun the 310 horse Bravos. I'll never ditch the velvet drive. Ever.
The konrads are awsome! We are finishing 2 540hp's now with them behind 2 671Blower engines.. If yuo ever really want to go with a Konrad give me a call.. :) jamie / Lakeside

[BigGrizzly]

Fuelpwer in case you don't know this I have a Criterion with a Merc trans But I also power it with a 690HP Procharged motor and have for over 400 Hours Konrad is a nice unit but I wouldn"t think of changing especially for the price. It I was going to go that route I would probably go the complete IMCO unit. We have about 10 units out with 1471 blowers on 572 blocks pumpinf over 1000Hp and the live and are the fastest outdrive on the water. Not to take anything ftom Kronrad but my choice would be an IMCO. I too Love the Velvet drive that is why I have a complete backup trans if my Merctrans goes south. The other thing is do you have any idea how strong the TRS is. well it will hold more than 200 more horses than the Bravo. So don't look too hard at Konrad because you think it is going to break. Good luck with your skeg transplant

[LKSD]

The old TRS units may have been stronger than a standard B1, but the Konrad will hold more torque & power than a bravo or standard Imco... That's one of the reasons the military in our country & others use the Konrads.. Failure is not an option for those guys..

By the way the Trs or Konrad is not interchangable with the Bravo units, you would have a lot of work to do to convert it to a bravo or imco unit.. Also the gear sets are not made the same now for the trs units as they once were. They are not as hardened, also some of the stuff is nla for them now..

I'm not knocking them but the hayday of the trs are really gone.. They are obsolete & there is a reason they aren't made now. Blow 2 trs & the konrad would have been paid for or at least worth the difference in the money.. On a 22 it would probably never blow apart, but on bigger heavier stuff they did & still do come apart. Thats where the Konrad replacments are by far superior. Some boat lines offer them as an OEM option now. Velocity is one of them if memory serves me correct. Also a friend of mine who happens to be the Rep for Konrad has mentioned to me that he has met with American Marine Holdings in relation to some of thier military applications. Who knows they may be available from the factory on a Donzi eventually....

Hey BigGriz out of curiosity, Who is "WE" with the blower motors & Hd drives?? I thought you were a warranty guy with Honda?? Do you also own a Performance Marina that builds custom engines & drives?? I'm just curious if they are your boats or customers, or just people you know with them. :)

[FUELPOWERED]

Griz+Jamie,
The only reason I would consider a Konrad would be to raise the X dimension. That damn TRS sits waaaaaaaaaay to deep in the water. Is an IMCO shortened case easier and more economical than a Konrad? Is the IMCO a bolt on for the TRS?
Thanks,
Chuck

[LKSD]

Griz+Jamie,
The only reason I would consider a Konrad would be to raise the X dimension. That damn TRS sits waaaaaaaaaay to deep in the water. Is an IMCO shortened case easier and more economical than a Konrad? Is the IMCO a bolt on for the TRS?
Thanks,
Chuck


NOooo!! An Imco or Bravo will not bolt into your application.. I dont know why Griz said Imco.. Maybe he is preferential to the Imcos Or is thinking of a totaal refit.. They are a good unit, but NOT compatable. I can get you a Konrad 1/2 conversion (new drive & gimble'e bell housing).. Basically you r do a boot job & bolt on the K.. You resues everything else.. The Konrad will raise you current X 1.75" from the trs. You wil probably gain some mph too & maybe even go up a prop size :D :) Jamie / Lakeside

[BigGrizzly]

JW, We are Garry Grimes an ex Chevy, Ford and MOPAR Factory NHRA racer who got tired of the buracacy and went and did his own thing. His dad Made one of the first blower drive systems ever on a drag car and was inducted in to the drag racing hall of fame 3 years ago. Last year the two fastest boats in the Lake of Ozarks flying mile ran motors that Garry built. Garry's shop does mostly winston cup ISA and big power for boats. He has tested for IMCO and Eliminator boats. My motor is one of the smallest combinations he puts together and it is a 502cid with 690 HP with 700 lbs of torque driving a 22 Criterion through a Merctrans and TRS drive. As for a warranty guy for Honda That is a tiltle what I do is much more and diversified like prop testing and lower unit evaluation from time to time , I started at Honda 24 years ago in R&D and QC on the auto side and moved to the PE/Marine side to move out of California and come back east to be near to my Dad and Mom for their last years. Me I raced motorcycle and cars for many years and racked up a few championships in my day. My Grand Dad used to do machining for Old Man Offenhauser, in his early years and I never got it out of my system. Do to my racing I have met and become friends with a number of cam designers and engine builders. I use to race against Garry( and never beat him) years ago. Racing is how I got my job with Honda. I got my first Donzi in 1966, which my sister still has. I am retiring from Honda next Friday June 30. I verry well understand what it takes to change from a TRS to a BravoI and the Konrad is almost a bolt on. I also know how strong theTRS and Konrad drives are (Konrad tried to get in with Honda years ago) The TRS Velvet drive is one of the strongest production drives ever. There is however a stand off box that makes it a bolt on with a exended drive shaft or you can move the engine back.The real point to this is why even think about changing something that is really good, unless you are going all the wayfor speed. Regardless of what the Military does the IMCO is faster hydrodeynamically than the Konrad. If you have any mor questions on my creditability feel free to ask. You will see for yourself at Eufaula. I"m not the fastest or the prettiest but I'm darn good.

[BigGrizzly]

Fuel, you said your drive is way low in the water That is strange unless you have a TR not a TRS. My drive prop shaft is the same hight from the bottom of the keel that a BravoI is on a 454 Donzi. Before you jump think what your gole is and how much it will cost to get there. A 22 Classic with a stock HP500 and a IMCO shorti will go in the low 80's if propped right. Both RT2 and MrX have done this. I can assure that the 1 3/4 inch riise with the same power won't get thoes results. Me with the TRS and a good motor gets in the upper 80's with 3 and a full tank of fuel and handles very well. Ask anyone who has ridden with me. No smoke and mirrors here, no Labfinished or blueprinted or trick props either.just honest GPS numbers, I travel usually with 2 GPS and sometimes 3 running.

[LKSD]

No problem.. The 1471's made me curious. It's not a blower you regularly see.. Ususally you see 250's, 671's etc... Now it makes sense.. I was curious as to where you got you info from.. I too have a strong auto background but prefered to stay marine.. (after high school years ago I got my degree in automotive engineering & technology).. The boats just stuck with me from growing up. My dads stories from when he was in the running the PT boats whle at Annapolis when he was in the Navy & studying naval engineering.. I guess it rubbed off some where along the line. :)

By the way I was not saying that the trs weren't one of the strongest drives made. I was just saying there are stonger out there now.. I believe the guy was looking for more speed.. The Konrad would help him get that with its higher x factor. The Imco while still a good drive would not be as easy of a change.. Jamie :)

Btw.. Hopefully we will get a chance to meet you in Eufala. You seem to share some similar interests as I do.. :)

[BigGrizzly]

This is the SOUTH here boy. This is horsepower country. I havn't seen so many 1471's on boats either till I got here. This is the home of Barry Grant And Demon carbs, Warren Johonson and Garry grew up together along with the rest of the Nascar boys. Anything goes here. BTW I don't they make the 250's anymore. Garry took one off a motor to give to Tim at Proboat ,another local, because he couldn't replace one. I don't mind the discussions. The only way to get answers is ask questions. " there are no stupid questions, just dumb answers"my grand dad a long long time ago. Theory is good but honest testing is truth. What I want to say is don't use a tractor trailer if you can haul everything you need in a van.

[FUELPOWERED]

Griz,
I had no idea the propshaft height on my boat is the same as a 454 B-1. I know the new ones are so darn fast cuz of the wild X dimensions. I figured on netting as few mph w/o touching the motor by raising the X dim. I know she won't go mid 80's, but mid 60's would be good for me.

[LKSD]

This is the SOUTH here boy. This is horsepower country. I havn't seen so many 1471's on boats either till I got here. This is the home of Barry Grant And Demon carbs, Warren Johonson and Garry grew up together along with the rest of the Nascar boys. Anything goes here. BTW I don't they make the 250's anymore. Garry took one off a motor to give to Tim at Proboat ,another local, because he couldn't replace one. I don't mind the discussions. The only way to get answers is ask questions. " there are no stupid questions, just dumb answers"my grand dad a long long time ago. Theory is good but honest testing is truth. What I want to say is don't use a tractor trailer if you can haul everything you need in a van.

To be honest the reason I believe you dont see many 1471"s is because more often than not it is the price that deters people. That has been my experience. In my opinion in certain areas the cost of living is not ridiculous and the income decent in order for people to afford the nice toys. From what I have heard from friends and clients is that your area is still reasonable. Even though nothing is cheap anymore. I have a good friend I grew up with living in Miami. Price down there is just ridiculous it makes it more difficult to have the expensive fun toys unless you are super rich. Also we are not big into NASCAR but I do know some of the names. My wifes friend's husband is on the pit crew for Tide. Not sure who their driver is but maybe you would know. However, he makes a nice living on the crew--just the time away from his family kinda of stinks. One of my other client's Rodger Stephen does all the stats for the NASCAR races. He has a summer house on our local lake as well. Also Andretti and Amato have a house on our local lakes. My wife and I are more into Indy and IMSA. Years ago when I used to Have my Porsche turbo I was in to that stuff more heavily and involved in some of the Porsche sponsored events in the Poconos (I used to be the technical chair person for the local PCA years ago).. Thats why Im a bit biased in the auto racing styles.. Different taste for different people. Still the same common interst in general. However once I met my wife the car racing stopped.. She didnt want me to get hurt.. Kinda funny, the business I have now seems to have created more health issues for me lately.. Also When I am doing the fast boats now I just traded possible collisions with cars for rogue waves to watch for. That doesn't bother her though.. Go figure?? I will never figure women out. Maybe her logic is that there is more room to go fast in open water with less chance of collison than on the busy roadways.. Just a guess? She yells if I drive fast on land but it is okay for her drive fast... Maybe she will be the next Danica Patrick?? Who knows maybe she can do it & then she can support me.. LOL.. :propeller I keep telling her to put her "talent" to good use.. Her talent cost me with the fuzz it seems at least once a year when they make it stick (thank god for some friends).. She thinks she is in smokey & the bandit... :D Unfortunatley when it's my turn I get Sherriff Beauford T justice.. lol..:)

Btw.. I'm not sure if you know or not but the blower shop is making a 250 low profile blower.. Although you dont see a lot of them.. We put one on a 21 Eliminator for one of my clients from Palm beach FL.. He comes up every year in the summer, Matter in fact he has it in for more stuff this year. Each year he adds more & more stuff with us. As of last month they still had them because my client wants to do more upgrades. So unless something changed since then that I am not aware of yet they should still be available from the Blower shop. He had had us do 2 of his boats so far & is looking for annother bigger cat for us to do..

Latley with the EFI stuff we have been doing more prochargers than the other brands. They have been working well.. I take it you like yours..

Catch ya later.. Jamie :)

[MOP]

Randy is spot on with the "South" being HP country, the roots of which come from the boys with "Locked Shocks" & Extra Tanks" those boys had some real quick delivery cars need I say more!

Phil

[FUELPOWERED]

Poodle,
Currently running the original 3 blade cleaver (either a 21 or 23P) which will allow the boat to hit upper 50's @ 4600-4750 rpm.

[BigGrizzly]

With the stock 330 engine my boat ran 65 on its best day with a 23 TurboI. It had a Marage plus 23 when I bough it out from under poodle. It would run close to 63 with that prop at 5000 RPMs. After measurring the drive I realized it was at least as good as the BravoI with the advantage of no water intake holes. After I got used to the boat and realized my 18 Corsican was fasrer my HP quest began. I had just raped up the 2000 Formula Vintage Champion ship and desided I wanted to stay home for a change so I quit racing. I have been doing it for over 30 years and I was tired. I don't even like to watch races on TV anymore. Like JW I'm a road race fan not a nascar follower. After when you work for Honda it is a natural. Don't get the idea racing is glamorous because it is hard work without sleep. Bill Elliott told Garry he'll never sponse his own car again too much time and $$$$. Anyway I went about scronging up parts for my project. After I did all the hull and outdrive measurments I realized those transmission take between 7 and 24 hp off the cranlk output depending weather it is a Merctrans (the lowest power loss) or a velvet drive 1017 or the 1018 (the higest power loss). The transmission is the weak link in TRS set up not the Drive.
JW I didn't know the blower shop is doing the 250 after Weiland dropped it. Graig is tryong yo keep up with the procharger and Votrtex guys and Wipple type. Down here the 1471 is fairly common. This lake has over 25 100mph+ pleasure boats. This isn't counting the race boats. There is a boat here running twin 640 Donovans putting out 900+ each and runs on 83 octane gas. Why did he do it, because he had the money and wanted to. This is the way it is down here. HP is king and that is the way it is. I now know how to make a lot of Hp from a small motor at between 8,000 and 20,000 and a big motor between 4000 and 8000 rpms.