Contemplating Used 2005 22 Aronow Classic Purchase

[Douglas Dorsi]

Thanks to all who provided feedback on the handling, courteous warnings, and seat time required to understand how to run this 22 that I am contemplating the purchase of. I am sorry I did not get a chance to personnally thank all that provided feedback prior to my seatrial . As I stated I am new to the performance boat arena.

I had the boat inspected and sea trialed by a marine surveyer. The boat passed the inspection with flying colors except the overheat alarm went of at a temp of around 190 so it was not able to be tested at full speed. I was able to go out on her and reach about 40 mph to at least get some feel of the boat. There was no porpoising with engine down and I felt I was able to maintain good control of any list tendancy or bow elevation with the tabs.

The inspecter said it probably needs a pump impeller but also it appears that since the boat is only one year old it has not had the annual maintenance which I am told normally should include impeller replacement. This is going to done, and I will be going to sea trial it after the work before deciding to buy or not. I understand this engine (496 HO / 425 hp) has many protective features and as such is difficult to damage.

Any feedback on normal maintenance intervals or experience with this engine concerning the overheating, reliability, best lubricants to use ect. would be appreciated. I am able to get a 4 year power train warranty for 2500 as well with this boat.

[olredalert]

-------Not that the warrantee isnt on the up-and-up but check and re-check the fine print and ask a few knowledgeable disinterested parties what they think. Its my opinion that a bunch of these warrantee programs are purely a way of seperating you from your money.........Bill S

[Douglas Dorsi]

-------Not that the warrantee isnt on the up-and-up but check and re-check the fine print and ask a few knowledgeable disinterested parties what they think. Its my opinion that a bunch of these warrantee programs are purely a way of seperating you from your money.........Bill S

Thanks for the concern and response. I will follow up to see if this is a factory extention or not and check the fine print.

[Douglas Dorsi]

-------Not that the warrantee isnt on the up-and-up but check and re-check the fine print and ask a few knowledgeable disinterested parties what they think. Its my opinion that a bunch of these warrantee programs are purely a way of seperating you from your money.........Bill S

I followed up on the warranty. It is from FPC Premium Marine Protection. I have not found any complaints about them but still looking. I can also cancel within 30 days. It is also transferable for small fee. Any info or experience with FPC???

[Mac]

How many hours on the engine? Have them check it in the engine ECM, not the hour meter on the boat.
It should not need a water pump impeller unless it was run dry or had debris sucked through it and was damaged. I would be cautious, a boat that new and expensive should not have a problem like this unless it has a neglegent owner.

[Douglas Dorsi]

How many hours on the engine? Have them check it in the engine ECM, not the hour meter on the boat.
It should not need a water pump impeller unless it was run dry or had debris sucked through it and was damaged. I would be cautious, a boat that new and expensive should not have a problem like this unless it has a neglegent owner.

This one was built in May of 2005, It's use was salt water. Engine skeg and propeller show very light nicks in a very few places. Boat has not been run for 3 months and I do not know if this contributes to the rate at which the impeller would degrade. I have been told correctly or incorrectly that for reliability you should replace the impeller once a year so I do not know if this is normal to go out at this time. The problem could also be a sticking thermostat which makes could make sense but I will see what the mechanic says. The owner is paying for whatever the boat needs to remidy the problem and a mechanic is coming to correct the problem tommorrow including performing annual (100) hr service which has not been done yet. I will sea trial again tommorow (Monday) after the work to see if the problem is corrected. I will ask to have the mechanic read the ECM and write it as part of his report. If it is the pump impeller should I stay away from this boat on that basis alone as everything else on this boat is clean as new. I am not sure what all else could be affected if trash was pumped through the impeller and caused a problem. I thought that because the engine has so many self protection features from overheat, low oil pressure, low gear lube, and that it passed the rest of the survey that if all it needed was a impeller or thermostat we should be in good shape. I also felt this way from the information provided by a Mercruiser rep on the cooling system and possible reasons for an overheat alarm described at the following site.

http://www.boattest.com/engines/104/video/broadband/mercruiser/mercruisercoolsys/video.aspx.

Please comment as I appreciate, and am open to your advice.

[need for speed]

If it was me.... super low hours like you say mint shape.... BUY IT...:wink: :wink:

water pump if by chance thats what it is no big deal..

[Mac]

It could just be an impeller, and nothing else, but the 496HO is a Horizon engine which are susposed to have 3 year or 300 hour maintenance intervals. So I would just be cautious of one so new with low hours having overheating problems already. It is very unlikely it is a thermostat sticking as they are fresh water cooled and have 5 year antifreeze in them.

[Douglas Dorsi]

It could just be an impeller, and nothing else, but the 496HO is a Horizon engine which are susposed to have 3 year or 300 hour maintenance intervals. So I would just be cautious of one so new with low hours having overheating problems already. It is very unlikely it is a thermostat sticking as they are fresh water cooled and have 5 year antifreeze in them.

Owner told the marina to fix the problem. I understand the boat was not used for 3 months out of the water. Today the Mercury mechanic replaced the impeller and sea trialed. I was told that the temp is now only high from factory specification by 5 degrees and they would be replacing thermostat ( although I hear what you are saying about that normal service interval) and rechecking tommorrow. If this is not the problem, any ideas (heat exhanger possiblly plugged ?, chunks of impeller rubber blocking seawater flow? Other Idea's, boat is in warranty untill the 23rd of this month!

Does anyone know the normal operating temp for this engine ? As a newbee I am trying to make a good decision and your help from all of you has been and is greatly appreciated!

Thanks for not making me feel ignorant as I try to get myself into a Donzi!

Doug

[Douglas Dorsi]

It could just be an impeller, and nothing else, but the 496HO is a Horizon engine which are susposed to have 3 year or 300 hour maintenance intervals. So I would just be cautious of one so new with low hours having overheating problems already. It is very unlikely it is a thermostat sticking as they are fresh water cooled and have 5 year antifreeze in them.

Owner told the marina to fix the problem. I understand the boat was not used for 3 months out of the water. Today the Mercury mechanic replaced the impeller and sea trialed. I was told that the temp is now only high from factory specification by 5 degrees and they would be replacing thermostat ( although I hear what you are saying about that normal service interval) and rechecking tommorrow. If this is not the problem, any ideas (heat exhanger possiblly plugged ?, chunks of impeller rubber blocking seawater flow? Other Idea's, boat is in warranty untill the 23rd of this month!

Does anyone know the normal operating temp for this engine ? As a newbee I am trying to make a good decision and your help from all of you has been and is greatly appreciated!

Thanks for not making me feel ignorant as I try to get myself into a Donzi!

Doug

[Douglas Dorsi]

Yup....
The mechanic changed the water pump after reading the engine diagnostics. Diagnostics pointed to starboard exhaust manifold sensor. This was not an OEM mechanic and assumed that he was just seeing overtemperature and that the pump impeller needed to be replaced and performed that work. I saw the old impeller & it was intact just a little formed by operation but was flexible and seemed servicable. They checked the heat exchanger but it was clear with no blockage. The mechanic did not change the thermostat as planned because he said he would not touch it since the boat is in warranty. They thought they solved the problem. I sea trialed again and alarm went off again right around 187 - 190 on the analog Lavorski temp gauge. The broker I am working with called Mercury and they said the diagnostic means the manifiold sensor needs to be replaced. Boat has analog Lovorski temp gauge which reacheds about 187-189 before alarm goes off.
Are these gauges accurate?:kaioken:
What temp should this boat run at?
Does anyone know the Alarm temperature?:kaioken:
I will keep you informed but would really like to know the temp this boat should read on the Lavorski temp gauge...

Thanks,

Doug

[DonziJon]

My personal opinion?? A 2005 boat should need NOTHING. Nothing can rondomely get into the drive impellor to destroy it. An impellor will last for many YEARS. I replaced mine 9 years ago..for no other reason than I thought it was time: It was 10 years old at the time. The Alarm is probably faulty. These engines are almost bullet proof. These new computer based sensors can't suck enough. Just my opinion. John :bonk:

[Douglas Dorsi]

My personal opinion?? A 2005 boat should need NOTHING. Nothing can rondomely get into the drive impellor to destroy it. An impellor will last for many YEARS. I replaced mine 9 years ago..for no other reason than I thought it was time: It was 10 years old at the time. The Alarm is probably faulty. These engines are almost bullet proof. These new computer based sensors can't suck enough. Just my opinion. John :bonk:

The Mercury dealer said that about 3 out of ten of these sensors do not hold up and that 99% of the time when you get this alarm code it is the sensor. They are small and do not look all that bulletproof. Any idea what temp these engines normally operate at? I will let you know the outcome.

Doug

[LKSD]

My personal opinion?? A 2005 boat should need NOTHING. Nothing can rondomely get into the drive impellor to destroy it. An impellor will last for many YEARS. I replaced mine 9 years ago..for no other reason than I thought it was time: It was 10 years old at the time. The Alarm is probably faulty. These engines are almost bullet proof. These new computer based sensors can't suck enough. Just my opinion. John :bonk:


No offense but God must like you:yes: :boat: :yes: .. I would never ever run past 3 years on an impeller.. Nor is it recommended. Anything past 3 years or a couple hundred hours is on borrowed time.. No matter whether you read merc or volvos manuals.. No boat to stay in good condition needs nothing. You still need to change oil & other basic maint.. Just like a car needs routine maint. It's been my experience that the ones who dont do the recomended maintainance pay more in the long run for the boats service & repairs. I do agree that a 2005 boat should not need a ton of repairs unless it was neglected or abused.. It is not out of the ordinary however on even a new boat to occasionally have a small glitch or 2, but it shouldnt have major woes.. ;) Jamie / Lakeside

[DonziJon]

Hi Jamie: GOD does Love me. :wink: The new engine sensors are one of my pet peeves. I've got a '95 Tacoma pickup V6 that I bought new which now has 140,000 miles on it. Every now and then the "Check Engine Light" comes on and stays on for anywhere from 75 miles to 600 miles and then goes off by itself. I keep track of the mileage in my logbook. After the first couple of times, I took it to the dealer for a "Read". Nothing in memory. It cost me about $28 bucks to find out "Nothing". The truck runs fine, gets oil changes every 3-4000 miles, tires, etc. Just put new brake pads on the front last summer. No problems. I do ALL my own work. :smash: John

[Douglas Dorsi]

No offense but God must like you:yes: :boat: :yes: .. I would never ever run past 3 years on an impeller.. Nor is it recommended. Anything past 3 years or a couple hundred hours is on borrowed time.. No matter whether you read merc or volvos manuals.. No boat to stay in good condition needs nothing. You still need to change oil & other basic maint.. Just like a car needs routine maint. It's been my experience that the ones who dont do the recomended maintainance pay more in the long run for the boats service & repairs. I do agree that a 2005 boat should not need a ton of repairs unless it was neglected or abused.. It is not out of the ordinary however on even a new boat to occasionally have a small glitch or 2, but it shouldnt have major woes.. ;) Jamie / Lakeside

I am still waiting to hear from the broker. They were supposed to replace the sensor today but I have not heard anything. Like I said the impeller was in good shape, heat transfer cooler clean, hoses opened and were clean, and alarm at about 187 to 190 degrees. No one has responded yet to know at what temp this boat should run at or alarms at......I will keep you informed.

Doug

[Douglas Dorsi]

I am still waiting to hear from the broker. They were supposed to replace the sensor today but I have not heard anything. Like I said the impeller was in good shape, heat transfer cooler clean, hoses opened and were clean, and alarm at about 187 to 190 degrees. No one has responded yet to know at what temp this boat should run at or alarms at......I will keep you informed.
Doug

Well its Friday and they replaced the exhaust manifold temp sensors. No banana, the boat is now at the Mercury dealer where I believe it should have gone in the first place. Will keep you informed. As many have said the boat should need nothing and so far it hasn't ! We will see what Mercury says.

Doug

[Cuda]

No offense but God must like you:yes: :boat: :yes: .. I would never ever run past 3 years on an impeller.. Nor is it recommended. Anything past 3 years or a couple hundred hours is on borrowed time.. No matter whether you read merc or volvos manuals.. No boat to stay in good condition needs nothing. You still need to change oil & other basic maint.. Just like a car needs routine maint. It's been my experience that the ones who dont do the recomended maintainance pay more in the long run for the boats service & repairs. I do agree that a 2005 boat should not need a ton of repairs unless it was neglected or abused.. It is not out of the ordinary however on even a new boat to occasionally have a small glitch or 2, but it shouldnt have major woes.. ;) Jamie / Lakeside
God rides with me too. I had a 1988 Johnson ob that was on my fishboat when I bought it new. I NEVER changed the impeller. It was still cooling fine when I changed from a 120hp to a 175 in 2001.

[LKSD]

Right on Rootsy... Jamie :)

[gold-n-rod]

AutoZone will scan your vehicle FOR FREE....

JR

Except that I've never met an AutoZone employee with an IQ over 70. I wouldn't trust them to scan my push lawnmower.

:wavey:

[LKSD]

Except that I've never met an AutoZone employee with an IQ over 70. I wouldn't trust them to scan my push lawnmower.
:wavey:

:yes: :yes: :propeller

[Douglas Dorsi]

every year on the impeller... just for safe measure... 2 - 3 years max... all it takes is 30 seconds of dry running to nuke a gen I or bravo impeller.. the alpha GEN II can handle just a bit longer but not much... you won't hurt the engine in this time but you sure will hurt that rubber spinnin in an iron coffin.... now catching a walmart or hefty bag on the sterndrive is a different story.. and that happens A LOT on the western basin of Lake Erie.... have that engine PCM scanned...

as for electronics on engines... they are a PITA if you DO NOT understand the systems and what they do.. and this is the problem with 99.9% of the people in the world... all of those sensors are nothing but a big ole control system, granted non modifyable without specific tools and knowledge... books available don't do a good job of explaining either because it could take volumes... an OEM service manual is recommended.. those haynes manuals and the like are bloody worthless...

but the plain fact is... todays engines are heads above old carburated engines in terms of efficiencies, longevity, etc... tools to diagnose and analyze these systems are not the ordinary "wrench or screwdriver" and you have to stepup to a new level of thinking and trouble shooting. but with the right tools and procedures they'll pretty much tell you what is wrong with them... which is a lot better than stickin a long screwdriver against the valve cover and your ear to the other end... or just turning screws on your holley...

if i had the cash at hand my mouse would be entirely F.A.S.T. controlled... fuel injected... i've done enough 02 tuning, fuel map and ignition profile mapping via laptop on different systems on different modes of transportation to know that it's the ONLY way to fly... if you have the green backs to go that route...

if you are truly serious about workin on your cars these days you should have an OBDII code reader (if post 96 vehicle)... 300 bucks buys you one with expanded capability... hell i have wrench sets that cost more than that.... plus, just FYI though i would do my own diagnosis of the readings... AutoZone will scan your vehicle FOR FREE....

JR
I believe you have found the issue with what has been done so far on this boat ...a bunch of educated guestimating. Today if you don't have factory knowledge you can waste a lot of time and money on misdiagnosis. I am anxious to see what the Mercury dealer has to say, it was taken to them on the last day of it's warranty!

I just got back from the West Palm Beach county boat show. Donzi had a white 22 Classic 496 HO 2007 with quick & quite, CD, dual batteries for 54k 10K off list. Just may have to buy a new one and skip the Aronow if there is any real problem that they find.

Doug

Doug

[mrfixxall]

I am still waiting to hear from the broker. They were supposed to replace the sensor today but I have not heard anything. Like I said the impeller was in good shape, heat transfer cooler clean, hoses opened and were clean, and alarm at about 187 to 190 degrees. No one has responded yet to know at what temp this boat should run at or alarms at......I will keep you informed.
Doug

as for livorsi and gafferig etc etc,,they reccomend using their tenp,oil,sending units because their senders are calibrated to their guages and from what they tell me the merc sensors can be way off ther specs....

[Douglas Dorsi]

as for livorsi and gafferig etc etc,,they reccomend using their tenp,oil,sending units because their senders are calibrated to their guages and from what they tell me the merc sensors can be way off ther specs....

Thanks for the info. Makes a lot of sense! Still waiting to hear outcome from Mercury dealer............

Doug