? about installing hydraulic steering on 22C

[yeller]

I'm sure this has been asked before, but after reading countless old threads, I was unable to locate what I need. :confused:
I have a WPM twin ram hydraulic setup on order from CPPerformance. Now, after looking at my my boat, it appears to me that the Bennett tab rams are going to be a problem. What's the best solution? Do you just mount the rams off-center and forget about it, or should I consider fabricating a new end cap to raise the rams above the drive?? Does anyone have pics of a steering install on a 22C with twin ram Bennett's?

[Pismo]

Yes, those nasty useless twin ram trim tabs, single rams would be more than adequate, get right in the way, I have the same problem. You want to mount an inch or two above the centerline anyhow so going above would probably work fine. People mount way off above the centerline all the time with no problems, there is a valve in the helm which can deal with compressing both steering rams at the same time. You could also buy brackets to lift the transom end of the steering rams off the transom, mount these outside of/past the trim tab rams and they would provide enough clearance. The ram would not have to go all the way to the transom just to the bracket. There are nice stainless ones available. Someone on this site had special short rams made for big $$, but must have lost lots of radius. Single ram steering would solve your problem, then the centerline is not so important, need a different helm tho.

[yeller]

You could also buy brackets to lift the transom end of the steering rams off the transom, mount these outside of/past the trim tab rams and they would provide enough clearance. The ram would not have to go all the way to the transom just to the bracket. There are nice stainless ones available. Those brackets are intriguing. Do you know who sells them?

[Ed Donnelly]

yeller; Heres a pic of my slightly cluttered stern...Ed

[smoothie]

The transom brackets and wingplate "must" be mounted to the center line of the drive shaft which is to the center line of the gimbal housing,reason being the pivot point where the outdrive moves up or down,If you mount above or below center line then you will creat a bind and may break something,extending the transom brackets would be ok.

[MOP]

We have several boats on this site with off center rams, most of the guys with K planes have the rams raised. Both the trim and steering systems have relief valves. I forget the owners name of the Blackhawk 2Bad 4U his rams are quite high maybe 3 inches up from center I have the pic he posted but but can upload it he has had no problems. Found a post of two boat with the rams 3 inches above scroll down in the post below.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=43352&highlight=blackhawk

Phil

[yeller]

Yes MOP, I had already been through that thread. I haven't found anything that is a direct comparison to mine, ie: Bravo1, dual ram Bennett tabs. When looking at mine, it appears as though I'd have to mount more than 3" off center. I admit, I haven't measured and I don't even have the system yet so I could easily be wrong.
I had the system delivered to RickSE and he'll be bringing it to Lake Powell for me. I'm sure I'll be able to get plenty of opinions from the Donzi crowd there. :biggrin: :biggrin:

[smoothie]

Just going by what it says with the big bold letters in the instruction manuals...

[MOP]

Smoothie not sure if you read my post in that thread but I was a bit concerned about being off so much, no question it has to put extra load on the two systems but I doubt if a major part will fail.

Phil

[yeller]

...I'm just a rookie when it comes to anything with an outdrive. :bonk: :smash:


Or, just do the simple thing and get the correct length rams for the application...
Is that possible with the twin ram tabs? Is that what others have done? To me, it looks as if there is not enough room. Seems the ram needed for that application would have to be mounted too tight to the drive and wouldn't be able to fully turn it??? :redface: :confused:

[RickSE]

Yeller, I'm sure you saw my pictures in the other post, my ram is mounted above the drive c'line and outside the tab. The transom bracket is custom and extends the ram out & away from the tab. I'm not saying this is the best way to mount but it's how mine came from the factory and so far it's worked fine.

[Mr X]

Or, just do the simple thing and get the correct length rams for the application...

BINGO!
I have been resisting saying that since the beginning of this thread.....

[Mr X]

Yeller, I'm sure you saw my pictures in the other post, my ram is mounted above the drive c'line and outside the tab. The transom bracket is custom and extends the ram out & away from the tab. I'm not saying this is the best way to mount but it's how mine came from the factory and so far it's worked fine.
Rick, I would keep a CLOSE eye on that......

[blackhawk]

Or, just do the simple thing and get the correct length rams for the application...

Sometimes that is not possible. I looked for rams that would allow me to stay on centerline with my Donzi Blackhawk and didn't find anything. Maybe I could have if I had kept looking but the WPM system I bought was made to be mounted 3" above centerline. I had zero problems with it. When I was researching this a bunch of people(mainly on this board) said not to mount above centerline. Well, WPM made the system and they said it would be fine and they were right.

My Pantera also has the cylinders mounted above centerline.

[Mr X]

I have never seen the transom brackets mounted sideways like that before.
Did WPM say that was OK too?

[blackhawk]

I have never seen the transom brackets mounted sideways like that before.
Did WPM say that was OK too?

That's a Marine Machine system. I'm assuming they did that to keep the mounting as close to the K-plane as possible. I didn't do that install the boat came with the steering when I bought it. But I can't see why it would matter since it still has the same range of motion needed to prevent binding.

[Mr X]

OK, just have never seen them mounted that way before.

[blackhawk]

OK, just have never seen them mounted that way before.

Yeah that was a first for me too! :D

[yeller]

BINGO!
I have been resisting saying that since the beginning of this thread.....Well what took ya so long! :biggrin:
Something that seems so obvious to one, is not necessarily so for another. I'm very mechanically inclined, but I know nothing regarding outdrives. Never had one, never helped anyone work on one. I didn't know you could order different size rams. I thought someone makes a system and that's it...one size fits all. :rolleyes:

Thanks for everyones help. :wavey: I'll contact CPPerformance and see what they say.

[Mr X]

Sorry, I thought you had a system and were trying to make it fit.

When I built my 22, I had to order the 7" rams from Latham.

Most manufactures make them in 7",8", 9" and 10"

[RickSE]

I tried to get some more pic's of mine. With the drive in the neutral to + trim position the cylinder asembly is level end to end with the pivot points and at a slight downward angle at the drive when the drive is tucked all the way in. To me this is the proper mtg. position since the cylinder will apply it's maximum force when level with the pivot points, i.e. no trig. losses due to applying the force at an angle. Since the drive bracket fixes the pivot point on the drive it seems to make the most sense to fix the transom bracket at a point which keep the pivot points and cylinder level when in the most often used drive position, slight + trim.

BTW, I have a 10" cyl., I didn't pick it so don't blame the messenger.

Yeller, I have -8 lines from the helm back to transom, -6 from the transom to the cylinder.

[yeller]

MrX...not knowing, I wouldn't have thought you could mount the rams so tight to the drive.

When I ordered mine, I wasn't asked what length ram I would like, that's why I figured it was one size fits all. I haven't received it yet, so tomorrow I'll probably call CP to find out what they think. I wouldn't think it'd be a problem to exchange the rams...although Blackhawk says he didn't have that option when he ordered his.

[roadtrip se]

for centerline mounts.

And it can be done with twin ram bennetts. Actually easier than k-planes, due to no backing plates...

Good luck!

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9808&d=1110036833

[Mr X]

MrX...not knowing, I wouldn't have thought you could mount the rams so tight to the drive.
When I ordered mine, I wasn't asked what length ram I would like, that's why I figured it was one size fits all. I haven't received it yet, so tomorrow I'll probably call CP to find out what they think. I wouldn't think it'd be a problem to exchange the rams...although Blackhawk says he didn't have that option when he ordered his.

The first step BEFORE ordering a system, is to request a mounting template from the manufacturer. It has a cut out that fits along the top and side of the gimble housing.
It is made from blueprint type paper, It shows the EXACT transom mounting location for all of the different ram sizes they make. In my case, only the 7" rams would mount without having any clearance issues with my K-planes.
The amount of DRIVE travel from side to side is exactly the same with any size ram used......as the angle of attack is changed by the transom mounting location, thus compensating for a shorter
or longer throw ram.
I would only use Latham Marine......but they are PRICEY!

[yeller]

Roadtrip, any chance you could get me a closer pic of your mounts? What size rams did you end up using?

[roadtrip se]

The boat is in Kentucky, but here are some I have from the archives:
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1212&d=1079540519
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=814&d=1078004108
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=810&d=1078004108

[Mr X]

RTSE are 7" rams also. Trust me........I know.:biggrin:

[cigarette30]

Sorry, I thought you had a system and were trying to make it fit.
When I built my 22, I had to order the 7" rams from Latham.
Most manufactures make them in 7",8", 9" and 10"

Mr. X,

It appears that you have installed the correct system, and avoided the trim tab area, am I missing something here? I know the Latham system is expensive, but it sure looks like it could be easier in the long run, and installed centerline.

Did you do the install? I also noted how high the exhaust is, looks like the dimension of the "black hawk", yet a Bravo lower. Is the x - dimension raised, or just exhaust?

With the setup as it appears (again maybe I am being to presumptuous) you would have a 500, with a raised x, thus have a combination of increased speed of two factors, the highest factory installed hp, and a "shorty" by design. ????????????

[MOP]

I have never seen the transom brackets mounted sideways like that before.
Did WPM say that was OK too?

Ted mounting the brackets on a horizontal plane to match the horizontal loading force is far more struturaly sound it will spread the load far better then mounting them at an opposing plane to the stress. I am no engineer but was a USAF trained aircraft strutural mech and we had extensive training on metals and stresses, all bracketing is inline with the stress presented take my word for that. The way most have them mounted puts greater stress over a smaller area.

Phil

[yeller]

RTSE are 7" rams also. Trust me........I know.:biggrin: Well, then...it looks like 7" rams it is, if I can get them.

Thanks for the pics Roadtrip.

[roadtrip se]

Ted's old boat throws you, because of the high exit point of the Gils, but after a late night, flash light tech inspection at Eufala a few years back with our boats sitting side by side, the x-dimension was stock. When I saw it, the shortie and the super secret, labbed 29 mirage were installed too.

The boat was gorgeous, an inspiration to completely tear mine to shreds and start over, and an absolute hoot to run with down the lake, until the water got a little shallow. Something I will never forget. Griz and I were talking about that weekend at AOTH this year.

So Ted, are you going to talk about the rest of the boat that goes with that extra blue 22 hatch any time soon? One thing I do know, it will have full latham steering on it.

[RickSE]

So Ted, are you going to talk about the rest of the boat that goes with that extra blue 22 hatch any time soon?

I was wondering if anyone else noticed that. What are you up to Ted??

[Mr X]

So Ted, are you going to talk about the rest of the boat that goes with that extra blue 22 hatch any time soon? One thing I do know, it will have full latham steering on it.


I was wondering if anyone else noticed that. What are you up to Ted??


I am not sure ecaxtly what I am going to do with it yet.
I am kicking around a couple of ideas, maybe an Ilmore V-10
or the new Mercury 600.
But I do know that it will be fast and spectacular. :shocking: :yes:

[Mr X]

Yea, I guess I am. :bonk:
Thanks for letting me know what happened.

[BigGrizzly]

I got a couple of Donavon 572's and a World products 572 for sale all normally asperated and dynoed with the smallest being 736 Hp thw biggest close to 900 HP for sale. WE also have a 640 Donavon a 900 +HP runs on regular 89 octane anormally asperated and another a fuel injected. Just a though most have just Dyno time on them.