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mattyboy
06-01-2006, 11:35 AM
what Donzi has been the most significant Donzi ever made has far as performance,styling,mass appeal,and impact on the boating industry??

Scott Pearson
06-01-2006, 11:47 AM
what about the 28 Sportsman

mattyboy
06-01-2006, 11:59 AM
only had 10 options and tried to get a model from each of the different eras in there

I left out the X18 too and the regazza and the levante and the medallion??

;)

joel3078
06-01-2006, 12:28 PM
Hey Tom and LSU, give me support and click on the Widow! :D My gut tells me the classics will win this one however as we have a slightly skewed voter base. The real answer is they are all damn nice boats.

Here is a question for the group. What Donzi model was made that was an absolute flop, turkey, badegg, etc? As far as I know, there isn't one cept maybe that little jet boat and I can't count that one as I would love a little jet boat for our cabin.

gold-n-rod
06-01-2006, 01:31 PM
Ski Sporter, bay-bee! It's the one that started it all.

pmreed
06-01-2006, 01:36 PM
Of all the choices, I've got to go with the basic 18 2+3. It's been produced since the beginning and in greater numbers by far than the others and has consequently carried the Donzi name and hull / styling to more places. It's the boat that most of us saw once upon a time that fueled our desire to one day own one. It was certainly the first Donzi I looked for until the obvious advantages of it's bigger brother, the 22 C, drew me in. Gotta go with the one that opened the most eyes....wide
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real wide:eek!:
Phil

Carl C
06-01-2006, 01:48 PM
We love our Classics but I am excited about the new boats that are putting Donzi back on the map. Therefore my vote for the 38 ZR!

Shanghied Again
06-01-2006, 01:56 PM
The boat that actuallu put Donzi on the map was the 16. The name Damn Donzi came from there race hertage when the 28 became the dominent race boat in hey days.
But I will agree that the ZRs are making an impact like no other and once the movie Miami Vice hits you will be seeing more ZRS.

joel3078
06-01-2006, 02:05 PM
But I will agree that the ZRs are making an impact like no other and once the movie Miami Vice hits you will be seeing more ZRS.
Frank your crystal ball is shining bright. I know that the MV movie will help put Donzi's name out there even more than it is already. I also think all these older boats still around will become very popular and drive the value of them up.

Morgan's Cloud
06-01-2006, 02:06 PM
About 10 years ago one of the major boating mags ... might have been M B & S ... had an article on the most significant boats ever made.
Before I even read it I knew the Bertram 31 had to be on it .. it was. Much to my surprise (although it should'nt have been ) the original 13' Boston Whaler was there and surprise surprise THREE Aronow boats.
One .. I can't remember / Two the Cig 28 and of course the Donzi 16.
Phil/ remember, the 18 came long after the 16.. it was not 'produced from the begining .'
Steve

Formula Jr
06-01-2006, 02:33 PM
The criteria was "the most significant." That can mean many things.

The 16 may have started Donzi, but it didn't carry the company and wasn't that significant: The 18 was.
Thats why there are three types. The 233 Formula was more important than any Donzi. Its the most copied boat on earth.

Rootsy
06-01-2006, 02:55 PM
About 10 years ago one of the major boating mags ... might have been M B & S ... had an article on the most significant boats ever made.
Before I even read it I knew the Bertram 31 had to be on it .. it was. Much to my surprise (although it should'nt have been ) the original 13' Boston Whaler was there and surprise surprise THREE Aronow boats.
One .. I can't remember / Two the Cig 28 and of course the Donzi 16.
Phil/ remember, the 18 came long after the 16.. it was not 'produced from the begining .'
Steve

the 18 sure wasn't far behind... the earliest 16 is what? late 64 / early 65 and the earliest 18 is what, late 65 maybe?

onesubdrvr
06-01-2006, 03:56 PM
Of all the choices, I've got to go with the basic 18 2+3. It's been produced since the beginning and in greater numbers by far than the others and has consequently carried the Donzi name and hull / styling to more places. It's the boat that most of us saw once upon a time that fueled our desire to one day own one. It was certainly the first Donzi I looked for until the obvious advantages of it's bigger brother, the 22 C, drew me in. Gotta go with the one that opened the most eyes....wide
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
real wide:eek!:
Phil
I agree with you Phil,....Also, the ski sporter might have started it all, but with the significant change to the 16 2+2, it looses some of it's longevity points (in my opinion). Also, the Critter, Corsican, X's / etc were in too limited production to really influence the boating market. The new boats (ZX's) (although awesome, and definately bringing Donzi back to the forefront), haven't been around long enough to influence the market, or boating - yet, maybe in another 20 years, especially the new 27zr(?) which I think could really be the start of something big. The ZX's once again are awesome, but I'd rather look at (for the industry) a 100k boat over a 350K or more boat.

Just my humble, perhaps ignorant .02
Wayne

mattyboy
06-01-2006, 04:15 PM
The criteria was "the most significant." That can mean many things.
The 16 may have started Donzi, but it didn't carry the company and wasn't that significant: The 18 was.
Thats why there are three types. The 233 Formula was more important than any Donzi. Its the most copied boat on earth.

Owen,
the criteria were stated in my first post
"what Donzi has been the most significant Donzi ever made has far as performance,styling,mass appeal,and impact on the boating industry??

and arguement can be made for the 4 types of 18, I think all of the choices have some merit but I haven't heard a slam dunk arguement yet

smokediver
06-01-2006, 04:28 PM
I don't think there really can be a debate . The 16 is really what started it all . Yeah , the 18 was close behind but it was based on the 16 . Had the 18 come along first then i would have to give it the nod but it didn't . There can be arguments made about the ZR's and ZX's but I wonder where Donzi would be today if it were not for the 16.

falcon
06-01-2006, 04:32 PM
although not sold in large numbers--the 28 sportsman gets my vote as it was it's racing record that established the donzi name/mystique

Formula Jr
06-01-2006, 04:55 PM
Its an absolute no brainer that the 18 2+3 is the most significant production Donzi. You can make a case for the 28 Sportsman in the form of 007 as a significant influence on race boats, in the donzi family..

In a general sense though, and replying to Morgan's post,
Donzi wasn't that big of an influence to boating. 007 was just a bigger Formula 233. ALL off-shore go-fasts are just bigger 233's.

You will note that I'm not mentioning my boat here.

chappy
06-01-2006, 05:23 PM
July 1984, I saw a red and white boat FLYING across the water. It took me 45 minutes to chase this guy down in a fourteen foot Starcraft rowboat with a 25 Merc on the back. By the way, he was anchored. It was an 18 2+3 classic. For me, it's what got me hooked. I have to agree with Owen here.
Great thread,
Rich:wavey:

FOSTER
06-01-2006, 05:35 PM
I had to go with the 18 also, Its the one that caught my attension when I was a kid, and the one sitting in my garage.

ChromeGorilla
06-01-2006, 05:55 PM
Good thread matty..... btw.... the 18 got my vote.

Marlin275
06-01-2006, 06:03 PM
The 16 was just an 18 2+3 in the pre-production stage of development.
The 16 had to be improved to fit a real V-8 and get the girlfriend next to you.

Big Bad Donzi wrote this about the 18


Marlin, the way I remember it was while the 16' changed everything, guys wanted a simple bucket next to them for their girlfriends/wives and the straight bench behind for friends and/or family. And for that matter , the women were more comfortable in their own seat facing forward. While I do not know if Jim and/or Walt actually designed the 18' or Don stretched the 16' himself- the public really did want a standard cockpit. Price and performance were not part of the thinking behind the 18'. A different and roomier cockpit area were being asked for and the 18' came to be. I loved the name 2 +3.
While I loved driving the 16', I felt safer and more secure in the 18'. The ride was not as wild.
I don't know how I left the 18' out of the book, but you are right. Apologies.
Dad built me a beautiful 2 +3 in 65-66, a light olive green with black interior and black stripes powered with a Merc (a 189 I think). I left the shop with it about 12:00 that first day and by 4:00 I came limping back down the canal with a hole right above the water line on the right side toward the bow (a little lower and we would have sank) A friend of mine and I had been involved in a crash that totaled someones little aluminum outboard in Hollywood that came to involve the Hollywood police and the Coast Guard. When the men at Donzi saw me pulling up, you could have heard the laughter for miles. I said " can we glass it up and paint it before Dad gets back or store it somewhere where dad won't see it". I remember "Shorty" saying "Michael, your Dad is going to have your hide" and bursting into a big smile.
So ended my dream boat and my punishment was no more boats until I became 18.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=33664

EricG
06-01-2006, 06:16 PM
I really debated between the 16 and the 18.

Ski Sporter / 16 / Sweet 16:
It was the one in the window at Abercrombie and Fitch...I don't think you can understimate the power that marketing ploy had on the Donzi "image" going foward.

The Wrap around seating - this first question I ever get asked when I mention I have an old Donzi is "does it have the wrap around seat?".

The 18 2+3 / Classic:
It is the only Donzi that has been in continuous production since '65/66. And therefore has been the most produced (I think).

Overall, we are consumed with the Donzi world - but to all but the very few, Donzi Classics are cute/cool/unique little boats - they don't differentiate between them. We talk about the 16, 18, X-18, Corsican, Minx, Hornet (all 3), 22, Criterion, F-22, and GT, but to 99% of the world - they are all just those cool little Italian:rolleyes: speedboats....

So, I voted for the 16...it was first...

EG

Ed Donnelly
06-01-2006, 06:36 PM
4 voted for the Criterion,but, 6 members have one(I guess 2 haven't logged on yet) In my heart of hearts, it really is the 16' for me. Had mine for nearly 30 yrs,while I have only had the Criterion for 11 yrs.......Ed

BUIZILLA
06-01-2006, 06:39 PM
damm Ed, how old are you?? 'bout 96 or so... :cistineb:

Formula Jr
06-01-2006, 07:06 PM
Eric, I have to be careful here in Donzi Land. The 16 was not the first.
This was:

Okay, now I Have mentioned my boat..........
You forced me.......

FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack
06-01-2006, 07:07 PM
The 18' 2+3 is the very essence of what a "sportboat" is. Hasn't it surpassed the 14' Boston Whaler as the model with the longest continuous production run?
The 18 is analagous to the Chevrolet Corvette inasmuch as both define an entire genre in their respective fields.

Eric

acecoota
06-01-2006, 07:57 PM
Please do pardon an out of towner jumping in on your thread here , but its a topic I discuss over here in AUST all the time . Seems everyone knows everything about Donzi and Formula here. Pity they are mostly all misinformed souls.
I have 3 favourite Donzi"s
16 , St Tropez and 28 .
If I am correct these 3 boats changed the boating world and were regarded as arguably the 3 BEST BOATS OF THEIR TIME.

Quick reply to Formula jnr , I also acknowledge that the Formula 233 was the forebearer to all these above and kick started it all off !! They are still a very revered and sought after boat here in Aust.

B T W does anyone know off any 28 s for sale . I have never seen one over here but I am super keen to get a hold of one.
Thanks all , ace

Ed Donnelly
06-01-2006, 08:21 PM
Buizilla; Only 60 1\2 just feel like 96.
I had very rich and famous friends growing up. Got my 16' when I was 20
Sold it when I was 49. Bought the Criterion when I was 50. So There!!..Ed

gcarter
06-01-2006, 08:44 PM
I actually voted for the 22C, but only because there wasn't a catagory for "all the Classics".
Now this would be in respects to todays production.
Many here are splitting hairs about distinctive historical models. You can take the beginning in the early '60's and work backwards to other distinctive historical race boats all the way back to Turbinia in about 1890 or so.
These boats just weren't created by Aranow. But the same spirit is there.
When anyone of the uninitiated sees a Classic, regardless of length, they know it's special and harkens back to another era of grace, style and speed.
It's not a new wood boat, or re-creation of some famous wood race boat.
Donzi Classics are modern in materials and execution. There's no mistaking them for something that might have been designed in the '20's.
These early boats that we love so much are clearly landmark designs. They took the essence of the long, slender, curvacious, fast style of a Hacker or Crouch, combined it with modern more durable materials and added a more modern bottom that could handle rougher water than Hacker or Crouch could have ever conceived of.
I particularly like the reverse sheer and flush deck of a Classic. Along with the widest beam dimension amidship and then tapering back to the transom. These boats are just beautiful! Period.
In comparison, the modern 30'-40' stepped bottom sport boat looks like a brick with a pointy end. You know what I mean, the beam reaches its widest at about station 4 and continues to the transom in a straight line. There's just no style. Boats need to be voluptuous.:smileybo:

Marlin275
06-01-2006, 08:58 PM
I don't think the 14 baby should be on this list.
Is that model distinguished in any way, other than being a Donzi?
Isn't it a lake boat?

gold-n-rod
06-01-2006, 09:07 PM
I don't think the 14 baby should be on this list.
Is that model distinguished in any way, other than being a Donzi?
Isn't it a lake boat?

So is the 16. Ask the man who owns one.

:wavey:

Formula Jr
06-01-2006, 09:12 PM
very well said gcarter.

mattyboy
06-01-2006, 09:12 PM
I don't think the 14 baby should be on this list.
Is that model distinguished in any way, other than being a Donzi?
Isn't it a lake boat?

I have been in a 14 in rough water it needs to be on the list ;)

think soda guys we are talking Coca Cola not diet coke not cherry coke, not vanilla coke, not caffiene free coke don't lump them all together

or for you movie buffs "it's a wonderful life" a wise man once said to me look at it as if it never was created would things be the same Donzi????

Cuda
06-01-2006, 09:26 PM
I voted for the 22 Classic. It's imho, the most desired Donzi, and the most versatile I think. Now, some of the other more rare Donzi's may be more sought after by true Donzi nuts like we have on this board, but I'm sure the general boating public would prefer a 22 to all others.

goatee
06-02-2006, 02:23 AM
WOW!
where to begin? 16 started it all. 18 took it to new level. 22 took it to a new animal! zr's taking it to new era. 28 won races. critter is just the epitome.

i voted critter :anchor: and was going to post an honorable mention to the hornet.:smash:
started reading posts and thought how the 18 might be a great chioce too.

so many reasons, so many chioces.:starfish:

p.s. i have only added to one persons rep power....... before today.
randys car post...not that there hasnt been good posts....
just not this good:boat:

Rob M
06-02-2006, 07:56 AM
Longest tenured.
A design influence for the 18' and 22'.
The most easily recognized by the general public - wraparound seat in particular.
Probably the most knocked off performance boat (Cobalt, Unlimited, Grew etc.)
In the general populations' boating lexicon: "Sweet Sixteen"
Most affordable for the average 'dreamer' of the Classic line

LKSD
06-02-2006, 08:13 AM
Definitley the classics & I think the z33 helped keep the name in the limelight for a long time..

steven s
06-02-2006, 08:17 AM
I think the most significant boat should be the one that most people prefer to own.And the boat that has the most producted in the world.Also I voted for the ski spoerter.But wanted to vote for the x18.

Magicallbill
06-02-2006, 01:23 PM
Got to vote for the Ski Sporter 16..
Personal preference?..Sure.
It has the history, the aura about it..People look at them,knowing they're special and cool, and they are not sure why..They just know....

MOP
06-02-2006, 06:27 PM
Saying "Sweet 16" on any dock always brings a smile and instant recognition to the Donzi name, I have to agree that the 18 is more popular as a tweener boat and does everything quite well. But when push comes to shove and we mature past our sibling Donzites the 22 wins hands down. Most all of us have enjoyed the 16 I know I did though it beat my old Bod to death, having spent a few summers running a Buds 18 I just had to skip right to the 22. I run in some fairly big water, just last weekend in my lounge chair 22 going 30+ miles in 3 footers left me sore most of this week, either of the Donzi teen sizes would have damn near killed me! I voted for the 16 due to its recognition but vote for the 22 for best all around.

Phil

P.S. Ken same stuff we ran in just a lot farther!

Cuda
06-02-2006, 06:48 PM
The reality of it is, I still don't think there's any line of boat manufactorer who can compete in the same lines as the Classics, the 16, the 18, or the 22. I voted the 22, because it opened up the opportunity to own these hot rod sport boats to people that run on waters not suited for the smaller ones, but you can still run the 22 on small water.

joseph m. hahnl
06-02-2006, 08:54 PM
oh no not again? Matty!!!!!!!!!!

16 . The one every one knows. Take off the the emblems and name.
Like the the 13 whaler it is unmistakable most people who know any thing about boats would be able to identify the 16.



When I was a Kid in the 70's it was the 18's coming in from out at sea.
that distinctive patter of water on the hull with roar of the V8 with above water exhaust. Etched in my brain as what a Donzi is.

Then in the 80's There was this twin screw in Osterville Betsy II. She was all white with a windshield. I think it was a 24 spirit . She is the one that stands out in my mind as my favorite."Twin Screw""OH YAH"


But now today my heart belongs to my Minx I looked at them all and the Minx just had it all. speed, comfort, warmth and a sexy body. everthing your looking for in a girl :smileybo: .


joe

mattyboy
06-02-2006, 11:54 PM
question for the 18 guys, how many times does an onlooker at the ramp or dock come over and say oh a donzi I love the donzi sweet 16 hey where's the wrap around seating???
and the real question does it get under your skin ;)
hell leave the names the stripes and the weenie bars and some of the people on this board can't tell the difference between the two :p

we're missing the point again here, it is not what your aging body likes, or what you think is sexy I didn't ask what your favorite Donzi was, or what your favorite style or type was please be a little more engaged about this and not lump all the classics together

I wonder what production numbers would add to this discussion or for that matter units sold??, and I guess you would have to take into account the total numbers of the size hull as donzi had many variations on every hull / power/ purpose/ or deck in some cases??

Cuda
06-03-2006, 06:12 AM
please be a little more engaged about this and not lump all the classics together

Why, are we being graded?:rolleyes:

Cuda
06-03-2006, 06:17 AM
Questions like these remind me of why I hated classes like English Comp in school, and loved science and math. In the comp type classis, it's somebody's opinion on what the right answer is, in math and science, you're either right or wrong, and it wasn't a matter of opinion.

Headmaster Matty is turning all our papers back to us, riddled with red slashes.

Formula Jr
06-03-2006, 07:29 AM
Mind you that I only did quick page counts so these aren't exact but will give an idea of ranking.

From the Registry.

A total of 1275 listed boats.

240 22s
279 16s
328 18s - 1/4th of the total.

These three make up 66% of the entire registy list.
The other 34% is spread across all other Donzi models.

The 16 was the first trial balloon, the 18 was always planned as the bread and butter money maker and became the archetypical Deep Vee, Stern Drive, go-fast that other makers reacted to by making competing designs.

The 28 Sportsman was significant, but only as a race boat and starting point for the later Magnum 27 which wouldn't show up for another four years. The production model of the Sportsman wasn't a commercial success.

The Z25 was also an important boat as a new direction for Donzi and probably had the biggest influence to current Donzis. But by then Donzi was simply reacting to a market that had out paced it - and mainly from other Aronow founded companies.


I don't think any of the other donzis, no matter how nice, were particulary innovative or even influential. Maybe the Blackhawk, but that was very short lived.

The 22 classic and close relatives, is an extremely specialized, niche market group of boats. Aside from former 18 owners looking for their next step up in performance where is there even a market for it?

Carl C
06-03-2006, 08:01 AM
Maybe there are more 18s here because they are more common and affordable. The question was not which model is more popular but which was more influential. When I think Donzi I think bigger off-shore boats. Also a more meaningful comparison might be to add up the dollar ammount spent on the various boats. Just my 2 cents which is probably actually woth a lot less here.

mattyboy
06-03-2006, 08:25 AM
Why, are we being graded?:rolleyes:


Joe,
LOL no not graded but I mean in school i usually got the teacher's ire when asked to support my findings and use specific information and not use generalities

in hindsight I think I might change the options and scratch the 14 and replace with the 28 sportsman there seems to be more support for that model

Joe also the funny part I agree with you about classes like English and Literature but now with my kids in high school they have to write essays in math how did they get the answer and why did they come up with the answer they did
when i was in school 2+2 was 4 case closed next not a paragraph on how and why did and in the end was 4 really happy :)

note I can't change the options in the poll that does make sense boy could you have some fun with that ;)

gcarter
06-03-2006, 08:30 AM
Matty, in spite of your efforts to nail down a particular model, I think the posts are defining the Classics (16,18,& 22) as the Donzis everyone remembers. Obviously, the 16 was a pioneer. The 18 gives much better performance and is more affordable to more people. The 22 is for the person who wants to push the limits a bit more and has deeper pockets.
I'll go out on a limb and say, in spite of the direction Donzi is currently taking, that there is probably a market for a 27'-30' Classic. But it would have to be a Donzi, no copy would work.
To think that after all these years, these three boats (16,18, & 22) are still in production proves the vision of the founders of Donzi.

mattyboy
06-03-2006, 08:48 AM
Carl
I don't think you can use the term influential that only limits the choice to the 16 as it influenced the entire show or in real terms Owen would be right in the wyn-mil II being THE ONE

owen in your quick page count is that 18 a total number??
corsicans, barrelbacks, X18 and the 18 standard??

and I don't think we can say all classics are equal yes they are close but
the 18 seems to be the front runner now


and sorry if you don't want to answer just vote i didn't want to make it tuff on you people so go back to sleep and I will wake the class when we put on the NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC MOVIE I loved that part in school

oh boy look at the :smileybo:

mattyboy
06-03-2006, 09:14 AM
I'll go out on a limb and say, in spite of the direction Donzi is currently taking, that there is probably a market for a 27'-30' Classic. But it would have to be a Donzi, no copy would work.
To think that after all these years, these three boats (16,18, & 22) are still in production proves the vision of the founders of Donzi.



George we have had this discussion before, to be a classic it could not have steps,vberths or cabin, it would have to have low free board limited storage
so is there really a market for 27-30 deep V with nothing else?? in todays world when you would have to compete with your own 27 and this???
(wow I have hijacked my own thread I hope you are happy ;) )
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16080&d=1132406613

gcarter
06-03-2006, 10:32 AM
so is there really a market for 27-30 deep V with nothing else?? in todays world when you would have to compete with your own 27 and this???
(wow I have hijacked my own thread I hope you are happy ;) )
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16080&d=1132406613
Well yeah.....
They built a few Criterions didn't they? That's about as useles a boat as there is, but boy does it have eye appeal!!:shocking:
In a former time, there were 14' wooden runabouts, all the way up to 50' runabouts.....yep there were runabouts that big!!! A few people had them built just because they liked the style.
I think the same would apply to bigger Classics.

mattyboy
06-03-2006, 10:48 AM
Well yeah.....
They built a few Criterions didn't they? That's about as useles a boat as there is, but boy does it have eye appeal!!:shocking:
In a former time, there were 14' wooden runabouts, all the way up to 50' runabouts.....yep there were runabouts that big!!! A few people had them built just because they liked the style.
I think the same would apply to bigger Classics.
George I think you are
wrong on both counts the criterions were designed as a gentleman's racer and a tender which i think it did quite well and
If there was a market someone would have figured a way to make and market it by now ;)
I will say tho You a right about the looks :)

ok back on topic

so is everyone in agreement the 18 is the most significant Donzi ever made??
going once??

joseph m. hahnl
06-03-2006, 12:01 PM
Slow down! :uzi: 1. no on ever said a classic had to be obligated to useless space
In the discussion When is it a classic. I still believe it is the hull. The deck
has nothing to do with being a classic."moving on":smash: Classics are Driving boats that is there only true purpose. "which Makes the criterion one of the greatest driving boats ever made:superman: ." Now back to the thread. 40 yrs is a long time to make something .It really needs to be broken down in Eras. Today the ZR 38 will be the biggest influence for people to recognize a Donzi and Admire it and eventually become DONUTS.

It really all comes down Recognition. If there are more 16's out there then they are more likely to be recognized.


There could come a day that ZR's are so recognizable that it will be come the new icon and the classic will be well "forgotten"


So is that is what your asking which Donzi is the Icon for the 40 yrs of production. The 16 would definitely fit the criteria, For me though, the 18 2+3 is what a Donzi is!! After all Don drove one himself:boat: .


joe

Scott Pearson
06-03-2006, 03:58 PM
Im going to have to disagree about the Criterion being the greatest driving boats ever made. You loose sight of the horizon very quickly in these boats, same goes for the Bench seat Hornet. Someone who hasnt driven these type of boats can get introuble quick.

Cuda
06-03-2006, 04:42 PM
How many years has the 18 been built?
How many years has the 22 been built, as the classic or the Critter, or F22, in other words, the hull?

mattyboy
06-03-2006, 05:20 PM
Cuda,
the 18 has been produced in really 5 forms( barrelback,standard 18 ,x18 corsican and 18 standard with windshield )
since 1965 not sure if there was a break in production of the 18 in the OMC the 16 was shelved long before that and OMC thought the U boats would be the new performance boat in the stable well that never happened and in 1990 the SWEET 16 made is grand comeback

the 22 started in around 79 and has been here since

wonder if some one can find out what hull number
the next
16 18 and 22 that come out of the factory are

Ed Donnelly
06-03-2006, 05:28 PM
Mr. Carter; Now hold on a minute..
If you think the Criterion is useless as far as room,
you have never been in a Criterion SS, and the SS has twice as much room than the Criterion 11.........Ed

Cuda
06-03-2006, 05:32 PM
Well, you ain't gonna have a dance party on any of the Classics. :)

mattyboy
06-03-2006, 05:36 PM
Well, you ain't gonna have a dance party on any of the Classics. :)

well it really depends on what type of dance the lounge seating in a 16 can be
quite cozy with the ladies :smileybo: :yes:

Hey Ed which critter came with the service bar???


18 going twice

gcarter
06-03-2006, 06:41 PM
Mr. Carter; Now hold on a minute..
If you think the Criterion is useless as far as room,
you have never been in a Criterion SS, and the SS has twice as much room than the Criterion 11.........Ed
Ed, you know me better than that.
The seating position is not the best. Not only is it too far aft, but too close to the dash/wheel. The space available is not very useable.
But if I had the money, I'd definately buy yours if it were available.;)

Ed Donnelly
06-03-2006, 10:11 PM
mattyboy; The Criterion 11 had the bar. That is why it was strictly a 2 seater.

Mr. Carter. My response to you seemed funny when I typed it. Yes, I do know you better than that:biggrin:

The Criterion is the roomiest of the 3 (just ask Randy)
The SS has the forward minny jump seat
The 11 You and a buddy, quick blast,then,back on the trailor....Ed

mattyboy
06-04-2006, 09:01 AM
18 going going........

Sagbay32
06-04-2006, 09:20 AM
I tried to think this one through before I voted. If I had read the 5 pages of opinions I would have been guided back to the 18. I chose the 22 because I thought it had the performance and styling easily won. The 22 in my book has the best lines of any boat built. I keep dreaming of owning a 22 and will stop the car and do a u-turn any time I see one be it for sale or just being trailered down the road.
If you take into consideration factors such as mass appeal and sales amounts, the 18 wins hands down.

So I vote to change my vote. (I'm so easily swayed)
Mike

FISHIN SUCKS
06-04-2006, 10:30 PM
Okay Joel, I casted my vote along with you! I thought I might get a little help from Phil (PM), see if I give you and your son in law a ride again:spit::rlol: ;) .

My 2 cents says that when I was a kid, at least 7 years prior to my widow being built, I loved the classics! Didn't matter what size, what color, what year, anything! I spent my summers growing up in Northern Michigan (lotta boatin' goin' on up there in the summer) with my 13' whaler (which I still have today), and whenever Donzi was mentioned, it was like saying 'E F Hutton', people listened. The classics paved the road for what we have today and kept the Donzi name going and I pay homage! While there were flops and stars along the way, I am happy my widow was built:shades: The compliments and respect never stop where we hang out, which says a lot about being a part of the Donzi Heritage!

Rodger
06-04-2006, 10:51 PM
Going back a few replies to the question of when was the 22 hull introduced. It was 1978 with the introduction of the F22. Popular belief is that it was 1979 but that is not true.

pmreed
06-04-2006, 11:38 PM
Tom, Tom, you're bustin' my butt. Riding with you and Barbie at AOTH was a blast...never said I didn't like the Black Widow, I do, I do!! And the train of babes coming from both sides of the raft-up to use your head was a real plus!!:smileybo: And they thought that smoked plastic was opaque.
I just remember seeing my first Donzi, an 18C, in Sanford, FL. Would have been about '72 when I had gotten out of the Navy. Everybody looked when it cranked up.:eek!: I knew that one day, I'd have one of those...and I do, a 22C that is.:yes:
Phil

Hey Tom, looking forward to seeing you in August for the Corvette roundup.

boatnut
06-06-2006, 11:12 AM
Interesting thread. In my opinion the 18 rules --- so I am very happy with the results so far. I find the arguments in favor of the 16 because it was first bogus in that if you had to vote for the most influential Chevy would it be the Corvette? or the 55 - 57 series, or the first Chevy (whatever that was). While some of the bigger and later Donzi's are clearly ahead of the classics in technology and performance, the classics are the mind-set of the Donzi mystique. And while the 22 (with more length and the same beam) is a nicer looking hull, the 18 looks good enough (better than the 16). To seal the deal, the 18 is the most fun (of any Donzi built including the non-classics) to take for that solo ride through sloppy water -- its handling and "feel" for the wave action is ahead of every other boat I have ever driven. The reward of driving a properly setup 18 exceeds :beer: the less responsive 22, it is more like taking a Porsche 911 through a winding mountain road. I'm hooked. Ed

mattyboy
06-06-2006, 11:21 AM
the 18 guys have not answered my question
Do you get mad or insulted when an onlooker at the ramp/dock calls your boat a sweet 16, and don't try and tell me that has never happened ;)

EricG
06-06-2006, 11:30 AM
the 18 guys have not answered my question
Do you get mad or insulted when an onlooker at the ramp/dock calls your boat a sweet 16, and don't try and tell me that has never happened ;)

No Insult to me...in fact, I usually don't bother to correct them, unless they ask if I redid the interior to replace the wrap around, then I say something about it actually being an 18.

Then again, I'm usually trying to explain that it is not in fact an Italian boat :D :D

EG
Wife: "Why is the steering wheel on the wrong side?"
Husband: "Because it's Italian, they must drive on the wrong side over there"

mattyboy
06-06-2006, 11:47 AM
the question wasn't influential it was mass appeal so seems the masses have appeal for the 16 ;) the criteria were performance mass appeal and impact on the boating industry yes the 18 might perform better than a 16 seems any newer zx is going faster farther in rougher stuff
plus i think the 16 really expanded the evelope there as people before were doing 30 in their runabouts til the 16 came along
so do I hear anymore from the 16 crowd???

boatnut
06-06-2006, 12:13 PM
the 18 guys have not answered my question
Do you get mad or insulted when an onlooker at the ramp/dock calls your boat a sweet 16, and don't try and tell me that has never happened ;)

We try to get them out on the water and show them that size does matter (up to 18' of course).;)

Carl C
06-06-2006, 12:17 PM
Matty, it sounds like you voted for the 16 but look at the poll results: the 18C has run away with this one. It wasn't my choice but it's time to declare it the winner. BTW people can't believe that my boat is only 22 feet long and so I have to explain that it is actually 22 1/2 feet and that most boats now have swim platforms which are included in the length. A company doesn't stay on top by popping boats out of the same molds for 30-40 years It's the ZRs that are gonna keep Donzi on top. JMHO:lifeprese

Rootsy
06-06-2006, 12:46 PM
Matty, it sounds like you voted for the 16 but look at the poll results: the 18C has run away with this one. It wasn't my choice but it's time to declare it the winner. BTW people can't believe that my boat is only 22 feet long and so I have to explain that it is actually 22 1/2 feet and that most boats now have swim platforms which are included in the length. A company doesn't stay on top by popping boats out of the same molds for 30-40 years It's the ZRs that are gonna keep Donzi on top. JMHO:lifeprese

true carl... the ZR is akin to todays vette... but put a 66 fuelie next to a new Z06 and see which one gets more attention :D

MOP
06-06-2006, 01:19 PM
Looking over the production numbers tells me that in fact the 22 has done extremely well getting such a late start, 16's & 18's started in the mid 60's the 22 started late 70's. But no matter how you cut it the 16 was the birth of a very fine line of boats that we truely enjoy!

In my book the 16 wins!

No matter what you have now I wonder how many started off with the 16?

mattyboy
06-06-2006, 02:54 PM
Matty, it sounds like you voted for the 16 but look at the poll results: the 18C has run away with this one. It wasn't my choice but it's time to declare it the winner.
Carl it doesn't matter who I voted for, and as long as there is valid discussion on topic in the thread , the poll will stay open, perhaps you would like to re itterate your feeling on why the ZR's are the most significant donzi ever made

Rootsy
06-06-2006, 03:30 PM
couldn't we very postively agree that had don not been into offshore racing then donzi probably never would have been... and since don's boat of choice as designed and manufactured by donzi for the purpose of racing was, the 28 sportsman, correct, wouldn't it be the most significant donzi ever devised... the 16 and the st. tropez were tossed in to fit a sales market... but the 18 was what invented donzi no? or do i have a skewed picture in my foggy melon...

Carl C
06-06-2006, 04:51 PM
Carl it doesn't matter who I voted for, and as long as there is valid discussion on topic in the thread , the poll will stay open, perhaps you would like to re itterate your feeling on why the ZR's are the most significant donzi ever made Rootsy expressed some of my sentiment before I could reply. I love the Classics but my dream boat used to be a 42 ft. Fountain. Now it is a 38 or 43 ZR. From what I have read, they are better boats. They are state of the art in V-bottom boats. I've always equated Donzi with larger off-shore boats; not lake boats. The Classics fill a niche market. The big buck off shore boats are Donzi's bread and butter and the ZRs are getting rave reviews everywhere. They have made Donzi a player again. Therefore at this time they are the most significant Donzi made and maybe before too long I'll find a way to afford one. Just my EXTREMELY HO.

mattyboy
06-06-2006, 05:08 PM
Rootsy expressed some of my sentiment before I could reply. I love the Classics but my dream boat used to be a 42 ft. Fountain. Now it is a 38 or 43 ZR. From what I have read, they are better boats. They are state of the art in V-bottom boats. I've always equated Donzi with larger off-shore boats; not lake boats. The Classics fill a niche market. The big buck off shore boats are Donzi's bread and butter and the ZRs are getting rave reviews everywhere. They have made Donzi a player again. Therefore at this time they are the most significant Donzi made and maybe before too long I'll find a way to afford one. Just my EXTREMELY HO.


Carl,
as stated here before people recognize a Donzi and most know the classics as the boats they grew up with which is not really a niche market( put a ZX ZR and a cig and a fountain and most can't tell the difference well maybe on a beak boat ;) ) can you state what model you always equated with big offshore boats as maybe I have overlooked a model.
are you sure the classics are not Donzi's bread and butter has their consistant sales is what funded the R&D on the newer step bottom boats?????????
yes arguments can be made that certain models have put donzi on the map and return them to the map in the racing field I don't think Donzi ever left the map has far as high performance boats lake or offshore granted they might have been detoured on ocassion. yes the ZR's are getting great reviews as did the 22 SE GT shelby as long as the test driver doesn't soil himslef ;)
and the fisherman are gonna love you running a ZR on that 2 mile lake of yours :eek:

Carl C
06-06-2006, 05:31 PM
Carl,
the fisherman are gonna love you running a ZR on that 2 mile lake of yours :eek: Yeah, that would be a sight! I don't know the numbers but it seems that they wouldn't make much off the Classics with the limited production and relatively low price.(top of the line ski boats, yawn, are in the mid 70's). I don't know all the models but I've always known that Donzi made big off-shore boats. I've always had small boats and all were performance outboards. When I decided to move up to a larger IO I never even considered anything other than the 22C. I'm just rambling on and that's why this is just my HUMBLE OPINION.

Formula Jr
06-06-2006, 06:29 PM
We could break this down to periods and that would answer all the questions.
'64 to '65 - 28 Sportsman and the 16.
'65 to '78- 18 2+3
'78 to '85 - The 22 hull and the later Blackhawk.
'85 to '2000 - the Z25 and then the ZX 26.
2000 to 2003- Nothing interesting happened.......
2003 on, the ZRs.
But even the ZR isn't that important. Understand the class it was raced in. Its a limited class. Cig has the 45 maxima. Its a twin cockpit also.
The 28 Sportsman should have been in the original selection.
I would have voted for that. If it had been. The rules of this game are bad though,
the 28 was the start of what we call the big offshore race boats. and remember that Bertram dropped out for a while. The 18 and the 16 were attempts to make a glass boat based on the Wynn-Mill. What some one of average means could afford. So in production the 18 wins. In influence, the 28 wins.
saving Donzi as a name, the Z25 wins.
The ZRs don't influence anything. They are not unigue in any sense.

Carl C
06-06-2006, 06:39 PM
We could break this down to periods and that would answer all the questions.
'64 to '65 28 Sportsman.
'65 to '78 18 2+3
'78 to '85 The 22 hull.
'85 to '89 the Z25
'89 to 2000 Nothing interesting happened.......
2000 on, the ZR. Gotta agree with you 100%:yes:

Formula Jr
06-06-2006, 07:23 PM
Carl, your dates are better than mine. So I'm also gonna second and say 100% to your list.

:)

Carl C
06-06-2006, 07:46 PM
OK, you updated the dates! I admit I don't know when all the models were made and I assumed you had it right! I think the ZR is special because it is affordable. Outerlimits and Cigarettes are better but can cost 3 times as much as a 38 ZR w/525s. And what about the 26 or 27 ZR with a 525 for under 100 thou? Now that there is cheap!

joseph m. hahnl
06-06-2006, 08:07 PM
I disagree with the 28 "what" " being a pillar for the average joe.
They set there mark in the racing world.We now what they are because of our passion for these boats,and quite frankly because of the Donzi Registry.
I also disagree that people have any Idea of Wyman "who" Mill "Huh".Totaly Irelivent.

I do how ever Agree that more than not the 16 is a topic of conversation when discussing Donzi's with people at the Ramp or where ever.

It's been said that the 16 started it all but they did stop production of them for "how many Years"? The 18 has been made non stop from it's birth till today. Isn't that correct?

When I went to the New England boat show at the Bay Side Expo.

They had only 2 Donzi's there/ I'll give you a hint Niether were a sweet 16.

Yes it was an 18, and the beloved ZR which was compeating with the Fountains in the same room.


So here I ask. If the 16 was all of the criteria why would it not be present in place of the 18? I would say because the 16 does not have the same mass apeal.

It should also be mentioned that the 18 stood alone out side the rich boys room. Holding it's own against Formulas, Chris Crafts and all of the inboard Ski boats.As I stood there in Aww there was not one person that didn't comment on it and not one person called it a sweet 16 every one knew exactly what it was.


I really don't Know what Carl is talking about big Donzi's . In the real world I have seen 1 once in my life back in the 70's it was roughly 45 ft or better . It was impressive to me because
" IT WAS A GIANT DONZI"
The shear Magnitude of it was based on the 18.

This question may also be based on geological location. Maybe up in those small lakes the 16s where popular and well Known. On the coast I would doubt to see a 16 coming in from out at sea. I can definitively say I never ever saw one on the coast.


joe

joseph m. hahnl
06-06-2006, 08:24 PM
OK, you updated the dates! I admit I don't know when all the models were made and I assumed you had it right! I think the ZR is special because it is affordable. Outerlimits and Cigarettes are better but can cost 3 times as much as a 38 ZR w/525s. And what about the 26 or 27 ZR with a 525 for under 100 thou? Now that there is cheap!


Carl" The ZR at the boat show was on sale for $418,600.

:uzi: I certainly do not consider that cheap. Also I don't think your comment about Outers and Cigs is based on fact but more opinion. I would think that all boat builders have the same standards to adhere to.

Ps I don't mean to keep hammering on you :smash: But come on man.What the is wrong with you:lookaroun



joe

Cuda
06-06-2006, 08:44 PM
What about the 65?:biggrin:

Carl C
06-06-2006, 09:01 PM
Carl" The ZR at the boat show was on sale for $418,600.
:uzi: I certainly do not consider that cheap. Also I don't think your comment about Outers and Cigs is based on fact but more opinion. I would think that all boat builders have the same standards to adhere to.
Ps I don't mean to keep hammering on you :smash: But come on man.What the is wrong with you:lookaroun
joe 2 examples for the non-believer. A 43 ZR w/525s for 346,000 and a cig 39 available w 2 power packages for 734,000 or 846,000 I do kn ow that you can get a 38 ZR w/525s for under 300,000. My statement is based on fact and I'm outta here.

joseph m. hahnl
06-06-2006, 09:13 PM
2 examples for the non-believer. A 43 ZR w/525s for 346,000 and a cig 39 available w 2 power packages for 734,000 or 846,000 I do kn ow that you can get a 38 ZR w/525s for under 300,000. My statement is based on fact and I'm outta here.


I'll leave it alone:rlol: : But I was talking about them being better boats.

joe

mattyboy
06-06-2006, 09:44 PM
Owen,
i can buy the arguement for the 28 but if that is the case more weight would have to be given to the hornet has it was a racing model and also a very sucessful production model

Joe,
let's not confuse this matter with the sales floor plan of a boat show, and at a boat show EVERYONE knows the models if they can read the sales sign
i would like to know what model 43-45 footer they had in the 70's a racing boat??
and let's remember there have been some bad judgement made by big business didn't they stop making coke for a while then the new coke failed and sure enuff coke classic made it's return, No Joe I think a stoppage in production and a return to production only proves the 16's significance
if it wasn't significant why bring it back ?????
the 18 went thru some changes in molds and feature over it's tenure if that means anything maybe it wasn't significant enuff and they were trying to find the right mix??

Carl can we compare apples to apples?? the cig had 1075's ??? and comes with a custom paint/graphics the 43zr i saw had sterling 900's and was in the 600k range

Formula Jr
06-06-2006, 10:09 PM
The Hornet is a freak. And a throw back. Its the oddest of all the Donzies.

.....oooh, that is right, you know thats my opinion.......and gas on the fire.

never mind........


Yes, oh! That Hornet should have been so great with is 50's, warped, semi-vee hull and 19 degree deadrise..... Oh, my that was a break though in design, you betcha.....

Very significant. Very, very Significant.....

Marlin275
06-06-2006, 10:16 PM
The rules of this game are bad though,
the 28 was the start of what we call the big offshore race boats. and remember that Bertram dropped out for a while.
Owen.
Wouldn't the Formula 27/Marlin275 be the start of what we call the big offshore race boats, or Bertram?
:biggrin:
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=18253&d=1140150377
Photos available from:
Aronow Offshore,
Christian Del Collo
RoseBudRacing@aol.com
856-904-1961

mattyboy
06-06-2006, 10:19 PM
my game my rules ;)
plus the 28 wasn't even built at Donzi ;)

Formula Jr
06-06-2006, 10:21 PM
All those boats are great. But the 27 Magnum is the universally recognized beginning of this new phase.

All the cut offs and beginnings are artificial.

David Hartmann
06-07-2006, 12:04 AM
I cant spell so don't expect much.

THe question was not what was the coolest, best or most popular.

If you ask what is the most significant It would have to be either a 19' or a 28' I think those are the only two championship boats.

Of cousre I want to think that as I own a 19' :p

Formula Jr
06-07-2006, 04:41 AM
Coke classic never made a return. They stopped using beet sugar in the New Classic Coke (too expensive.) It wasn't the same after that. Old Programers know their caffinated sodas. :)


Interesting point about the Formula 27. I had not thought about that and its possible influence on the Sportsman 28. I've never seen one of these.

The Hornet is a beautiful boat, it is also a very strange boat. The strangest of all the Donzis. Take a real close look at one. It isn't a true deep vee.
Its like someone took a Sportsfisherman hull from the early '60s and sized it down to 19 feet. If Wynne was still alive, this might be my first question for him.

mattyboy
06-07-2006, 07:20 AM
I can think of stranger donzi than the hornet Owen,
like 17 footer with 4 cyl??? and the GT went loopy in the late 80's
but come on I can feel it Owen you have been skating around this the whole thread think it is time for a new game maybe the top ten boats of all time or something make it you game your rules, just make sure you post it in the other boat talk section ;) :)

Carl C
06-07-2006, 09:27 AM
Carl can we compare apples to apples?? the cig had 1075's ??? and comes with a custom paint/graphics the 43zr i saw had sterling 900's and was in the 600k range Matty, I was gonna let this go and pass the podium to someone else but you asked for apples to apples comparisons. I don't have all day to dig through my magazines but I came up with a few. It's hard to find tests of Outers and Cigs with 525s and hard to find tests of ZRs with big power. 6-06 Powerboat mag tests a 38 ZR with nice graphics and 525s 91mph $330,000. OuterLimits 39 with 525s similarly equipped, 97 mph $580,000. A 2005 test of a 38 ZR w/525s 90 mph $275,000. Come on, you guys get these magazines and must know the the Cigs and Outers are top end V-bottoms. The ZRs seem to be close in quality and performance but run a lot cheaper. Kudos to Donzi for that. And the 26/27 ZR(I forgot which it is!) is going to create a whole new class of affordable true off-shore boats. I've got a call in to Frankie at Pier 57 to find out what it will take to get into a ZR. Will try to post some numbers but other than that I think I've said enough in this thread.:stan: :cartman:

Rootsy
06-07-2006, 10:14 AM
Matty, I was gonna let this go and pass the podium to someone else but you asked for apples to apples comparisons. I don't have all day to dig through my magazines but I came up with a few. It's hard to find tests of Outers and Cigs with 525s and hard to find tests of ZRs with big power. 6-06 Powerboat mag tests a 38 ZR with nice graphics and 525s 91mph $330,000. OuterLimits 39 with 525s similarly equipped, 97 mph $580,000. A 2005 test of a 38 ZR w/525s 90 mph $275,000. Come on, you guys get these magazines and must know the the Cigs and Outers are top end V-bottoms. The ZRs seem to be close in quality and performance but run a lot cheaper. Kudos to Donzi for that. And the 26/27 ZR(I forgot which it is!) is going to create a whole new class of affordable true off-shore boats. I've got a call in to Frankie at Pier 57 to find out what it will take to get into a ZR. Will try to post some numbers but other than that I think I've said enough in this thread.:stan: :cartman:

carl... i don't believe there are a whole lotta folks out there today that are saying gee that is a nice 27... i have a spare 100K to plunk down... you are now getting into a very small percentage of the population... this is not the "average" joe arena... least where i'm from.... somehow i don't see a whole lot of these boats going to michigan either.. not at this time anyway... i still have to believe the smaller boats are the bread and butter... big boat = big profit figure (percentage unknown) but smaller volume... smaller boat = smaller profit figure but most likely larger % and more made...

i mean come on... how many people do you know and associate with on a dialy basis that can "AFFORD" to go finance a ZR??? sure as hell ain't "average" america...

mattyboy
06-07-2006, 10:24 AM
Carl, my point was even the zr with big power is way more $$$ the 43 zr I saw was 200k over the one you saw due to the power, the power in a boat can add up real quick, so when looking at a big offshore type twin boat that the drives engines combo can add 150k to well over 200k before you even decide what color you want it plus anyone buying an outerlimits is not looking for a twin 496ho or hp 525 I suggest you get to a show and look at what is out there , look at the fit and finish of all the players look at customs and non custom made boats you'll be surprised what you'll see or in some cases what you don't see.
Yes the 27zr can be a real hotcake priced right great performance it could change everything time will tell.

Carl C
06-07-2006, 01:05 PM
I don't know you guys. I don't have all the answers but I really hope the ZRs work out well for Donzi. I'm not going to play any games here either. The fact is I can't afford a $300,000 boat but I could afford a $100,000 27 ZR if I want it bad enough. I need to see one and see the performance numbers.:lifeprese

Formula Jr
06-07-2006, 09:50 PM
Matty you know, I stopped mentioning those boats entirely two years ago... I feel bad when someone askes a question about them. Yup, that sport jet thingy is a donzi - no doubt ;)

This isn't the place for me to correct people. Or to put people in a sense of historical context.

They LOVE their Boats. Thats enough......

There is a wider view I fall pray to all the time....

But they love their boats. And if thats all they've seen you can't question it.

mattyboy
06-07-2006, 10:05 PM
Owen,
really not a problem, I think it would be a great thread you have the knowledge about the boats it is always good to talk about any of the historic boats think about it
and i was really kidding with the other boat talk ;)
what donzi if any would be on a top 10 list?? would the 13 foot boston whaler be on it?? the cig 28 formula 233........ and so on

Formula Jr
06-07-2006, 10:55 PM
As much as I wish to consider it, Only one Donzi makes the top ten list.
The 28 Sportsman.

It goes some thing like this:

1. The 13 Boston Whaler
2. The Chris-Craft Cobra
3. The Bertram 31.
4. The Formula 233.
5. The Formula JR
6. The 28 Sportsman
7. The Magunum 27.
8 The Sidewinder Cobra jet.
9. The Duo 19 Tunnel Hull.
10. The Super ATV.

I'll correct this later.

Marlin275
06-08-2006, 11:00 AM
As much as I wish to consider it, Only one Donzi makes the top ten list.
The 28 Sportsman.
It goes some thing like this:
1. The 13 Boston Whaler
2. The Chris-Craft Cobra
3. The Bertram 31.
4. The Formula 233.
5. The Formula JR
6. The 28 Sportsman
7. The Magunum 27.
8 The Sidewinder Cobra jet.
9. The Duo 19 Tunnel Hull.
10. The Super ATV.
I'll correct this later.
I agree with you on about five boats on that list especially #1
but I have never even heard of three of them and can't find any info on Google so how meaningful was the Super ATV? It shows up as a four wheel drive sand machine.
Unless you credit the Formula Jr as the mother of the Donzi 16, I thought Wyn-Mill was the father of both?.

Formula Jr
06-08-2006, 08:55 PM
#9 and #5 are shaky I guess.
#9 should be the Glastron-Calson early tunnel hulls.
#5 should be the Wynn-Mill II.

The Glastron G3 should be in here also.

Forget the ATV. I got that completely wrong.

Maybe there is room in here for the GW Invader?

mattyboy
06-09-2006, 09:02 AM
ok Owen when you get it fine tuned post it up ;)

boldts
06-11-2006, 12:57 AM
Been away for a few days (new computer) but how does Glastron or other boat makes fall into the most significant Donzi? Guess I'll have to read all the posts. In essence, isn't the most significant Donzi the one or ones you own? I do feel however that the 38ZR under Steve was the biggest break through for Donzi in the racing world. Which boat made Donzi what it is today? Which one do they sell the most of every year? There is the answer to you question in my opinion. While I like the Criterion models, some like the BlackHawk models and other special edition models that have been built over the years. The 16' SkiSporter now called the 16' Classic is the only Donzi first built and still being built today. So, in my opinion, thats the most significant Donzi ever built even if it did start out as a Formula I believe.

vrod02
06-11-2006, 10:54 PM
As a non-Donzi member, no pride in owning one. Its the Sixteen hands down. What I "would" prefer to own is a different story!:biggrin:

MOP
11-27-2007, 10:45 PM
Surprised to see this one pop up! Thought Matty cleansed the site! Noticed the date for Vrod's post was way off in the post?

Lenny
11-27-2007, 11:17 PM
Classic 18,.. Hands Down... :yes:

f_inscreenname
11-27-2007, 11:26 PM
the most significant Donzi ever made.

You guys should know your history better.
It is the 7 meter hands down.

DonziFreak
11-28-2007, 12:44 AM
18, duh!

haha....i know the 16 lovers are gonna go crazy on us....

Lenny
11-28-2007, 02:20 AM
the most significant Donzi ever made.
You guys should know your history better.
It is the 7 meter hands down.


It started it's life as a 23 footer, not a seven Meter. That became a name a year or so later...
;)

Sweet little 16
11-28-2007, 08:49 AM
sorry I guess when i voted it brought the thread up top??

Donziweasel
11-28-2007, 10:04 AM
16 started it all, but tyhe 18 is probably a better boat all around. Hmmm.... going with the original, 16C.

Gearhead99
12-04-2007, 01:29 PM
Sure the 16 started it. But, when the average boat person thinks of a Donzi. They think of a 18 2+3, with a loud engine and no windshield.

boatnut
12-04-2007, 02:01 PM
This interesting thread point confirms the "different strokes for different folks" theory. To focus it some, how about putting some business marketing emphasis on it: what is the first Donzi you saw (and/or heard) that made you have to own one? For me it was clearly the 18 (1967 barrel back to be precise). Four Donzis and 40 years later I still think it was an excellent choice! Ed

Gearhead99
12-07-2007, 12:43 PM
First one I saw was a 16 in 64-65. I was a teenager and a guy with his girlfriend passed us in Barnengat Bay. We were in my families 16' Thompson. We followed them up the channel till they pulled over for gas. Yep, it was a red Donzi. And like all Donzi's, very thirsty. We docked and went and bought a YooHoo soda so we could walk buy it and oggle it, and the girl too. Mostly the boat.

The owner was very friendly, showed us the engine, Ford Interceptor and offered us a short RIDE !!!! We jumped in the back and he fired that boat up. The rumble was music to our gearhead ears. Short blast up the channel and back; jumped a wake and we were all eyes and ears.

Got home that night, told dad about it. His comments...."What good is a go fast only boat, you can't fish out of it". I wanted one from then on.

After coming home from Southeast Asia, four years USAF, I was fishing with my dad on his Luhr's. A Donzi flew by us and jumped our wake. I was all excited. Dad and his fishing buddy just said, "Damn Donzi" they're going to kill themselves in that thing. I was all smiles.

Bought my first Donzi couple years later. Have had several, none now. Want a 22. I'll find the right one.

boldts
12-11-2007, 06:20 PM
LOL Someone might have said this already. I'll go back later and read everyones replies. The MOST significant Donzi ever built, were the 2 I had the pleasure of owning. God I miss those boats and my daughter who is now 10 misses them just as much as I do. We loved to wait just before sundown when most of the boats had cleared out already on a Sunday evening and start at one end of our lake gradully building speed has I got the trim set just right where the bow felt like a fether in your hand floating. The thru-hull singing at just under 5000 on the tach. Wind blowing our cheeks and hair like some mad man on fire! As we idle back to the launch ramp where the then wife would be waiting for us patiently, our smiles were from ear to ear. Everyone, even those who had already pulled their boats watched as we loaded our Classic like a rythmic dance. Smooth, no yelling and everything done just right. Many of the on-lookers coming over and asking questions as we dried our baby off and never were they greeted with a crappy atitude as these boaters by seeing our display may one day be a new Donzi owner........Memories for now, but maybe someday my daughter and I will feel that exsilerating excitement in our bodies again! :)

BigGrizzly
12-17-2007, 11:38 AM
Bolts, I know what you mean!!! I have seen your face when that happens. I spent 2 wonderful days watching that grin at Eufaula and Then again At the Cumberland event. It was well worth the trip hauling the boat up to Cumberland, just to see it again. the first thing my wife asked when I called her was how big was Scott's smile.

HOWARD O
05-21-2008, 04:08 PM
Saying "Sweet 16" on any dock always brings a smile and instant recognition to the Donzi name..........
This statement says it all, it's universal. :yes:
The 16 is the obvious choice, folks. I can't believe there is even varying opinion on this! :confused:

BigGrizzly
01-06-2009, 01:22 PM
Actually any classic gets the reaction, but I must say the 16, has been doing it for longer then any others. Its "cute", 'Neat", and "lookh like a sport boat should look like"

mattyboy
01-06-2009, 05:18 PM
as the poll shows and production numbers affirm the 18 is the winner
as of 1-6 2009

View Poll Results: the most significant Donzi ever made

model votes percentage


the ski sporter 49 26.63%
the benchseat hornet 7 3.80%
the 14 baby 1 0.54%
the 18 2+3 71 38.59%
the 22 classic 32 17.39%
the minx 1 0.54%
the Criterion 9 4.89%
the Black widow 4 2.17%
the 38 ZR 9 4.89%
the 35 zr flat deck 1 0.54%











some think i deleted all my threads , not so i just deleted any that had a religious and political nature i left the boat threads this one is from 2006

HOWARD O
04-27-2009, 04:58 PM
That was a great poll. Don't agree with the outcome and obviously agree with Grizz, but a great poll nonetheless! :yes:

Air 22
06-06-2009, 08:51 PM
what Donzi has been the most significant Donzi ever made has far as performance,styling,mass appeal,and impact on the boating industry??


Thats easy an easy one...Bob Haver's....Stock..."Yellow Fever"....:kingme:

vrod02
06-15-2009, 10:34 PM
I agree with the poll out of pure looks. My 7 hit 62 g.p.s. with 2-3 ft "lake" waves Sunday.Girlfriend didn't have to hold her boobs!:kingme: Ran over a 28-32 crownline, cause of the waves.:) I was proud. Allway cool to see a longer ship have to slow down.

Ghost
07-22-2009, 05:38 PM
I agree with the poll out of pure looks. My 7 hit 62 g.p.s. with 2-3 ft "lake" waves Sunday.Girlfriend didn't have to hold her boobs!:kingme: Ran over a 28-32 crownline, cause of the waves.:) I was proud. Allway cool to see a longer ship have to slow down.

AWESOME!! That's quite a ways up from 55, last report I heard.

DonziBuoy
07-28-2009, 11:04 PM
The boat that made the difference for Donzi, was the ski sporter. Donzi in turn launched the whole off shore boat category. It was the "sputnick" for the whole business.

Shanghied Again
10-13-2009, 11:50 AM
I agree the first Donzi that made impact was the 16 the boat was ahead of her time for looks, speed and fun.
On the new side the biggest impact for Donzi was the the 38 ZR Comp. This not only opened the eyes to a lot of Non believers but was one of the best racing boats to be produced. Donzi sales started to climb in the result of the 38ZRC and was why Donzi started to get back in the game in 2003 the boat sold more then 100 units first year built. and also was the reason for Donzi to build the 35, 38 and 43ZR that before the economy took a dump was taking Donzi to a new level of quality. The ZX models were always considered the Gentelmans Performance boat. The 22 classic became one of the best sellers when guys wanted to move up from the 16s or 18s and was a great selling boat. The 18ft Donzi sales dropped off because of the 22, the price of the 18 put it very close to moving up to the 22.

Just Say N20
11-10-2009, 12:20 AM
To me? Which ever one I own at the moment. :biggrin:

silverghost
11-10-2009, 01:28 AM
I would have to say Lenny's X 18 "Benchseats" with pads that he has been building with his own hand-built molds !
Or my new-found "Benchseat 18 C" project.
These are the boats Donzi never buit ~
But should have in my opinion!
A true old style Gentleman's Racer Donzi !
Are you NEW OWNERS/ BUILDERS of Donzi Listening !
I would by a new "Benchseat" 18 or 22 Classic or X 18-22 in a heartbeat!
Also bring back the Benchseat Hornet with a duo-prop style outdrive !
I want one of those too!

Now If only Lenny & I each could only get these "benchseat" 18 projects finally finished!

Ghost
11-10-2009, 01:37 AM
I would have to say Lenny's X 18 "Benchseats" with pads that he has been building with his own hand-built molds !
Or my new-found "Benchseat 18 C" project.
These are the boats Donzi never buit ~
But should have in my opinion!
A true old style Gentleman's Racer Donzi !
Are you NEW OWNERS/ BUILDERS of Donzi Listening !
I would by a new "Benchseat" 18 or 22 Classic or X 18-22 in a heartbeat!
Also bring back the Benchseat Hornet with a duo-prop style outdrive !

Now If only Lenny & I each could only get these "benchseat" 18 projects finally finished!

I like the way you're thinking.

How about a benchseat duoprop 22C with a rolltop forward rumbleseat? (Fully separate, or with split-walkthrough consoles, Critter-style.) Maybe with windshields like this...

http://yachtbroker.escapeartist.com/images/218.jpg

gcarter
03-19-2010, 09:05 PM
I like the way you're thinking.

How about a benchseat duoprop 22C with a rolltop forward rumbleseat? (Fully separate, or with split-walkthrough consoles, Critter-style.) Maybe with windshields like this...

http://yachtbroker.escapeartist.com/images/218.jpg
Before I bought the TR, I almost bought an F-22 and that's precisely what I was going to do w/it......minus the rumble seat.

Greg Guimond
03-21-2010, 08:31 PM
Maybe a bench seat 16 with rear "rumble seats" like a Critter :drive:
Maybe make it center steer

mattyboy
03-22-2010, 09:05 AM
results as of March 22 2010 it's been 4 years boys AND STILL

no change 18 in the lead 103 votes with 34.92% of total votes cast

the ski sporter 70 23.73%
the benchseat hornet 16 5.42%
the 14 baby 3 1.02%
the 18 2+3 103 34.92%
the 22 classic 61 20.68%
the minx 5 1.69%
the Criterion 12 4.07%
the Black widow 8 2.71%
the 38 ZR 16 5.42%
the 35 zr flat deck 1 0.34%

BobinCovington
05-27-2010, 12:31 AM
Disclaimer- this writer does not intend to offend any other Donzi owner that does not own a 16

I am swayed toward my family's 16 ski sporter that we have now, but here is my thought...
when the first Donzi 16 came out, if you looked at any magazine boat advertisement there was just nothing like it at the time. I have the boating news from 1966 and most of the other boats advertised just look like the boats we remember from the 50's and 60's. The Donzi look is timeless and the shape and performance revolutionized the industry, boat makers began to copy the design.

I love all the Donzis I have seen here and know that the newer boats ride and handle better, may have been in production longer and other good qualities but I think if you define "significant", then the first design that was introduced is the one that changed everything.

mattyboy
05-27-2010, 08:12 AM
Disclaimer- this writer does not intend to offend any other Donzi owner that does not own a 16

I am swayed toward my family's 16 ski sporter that we have now, but here is my thought...
when the first Donzi 16 came out, if you looked at any magazine boat advertisement there was just nothing like it at the time. I have the boating news from 1966 and most of the other boats advertised just look like the boats we remember from the 50's and 60's. The Donzi look is timeless and the shape and performance revolutionized the industry, boat makers began to copy the design.

I love all the Donzis I have seen here and know that the newer boats ride and handle better, may have been in production longer and other good qualities but I think if you define "significant", then the first design that was introduced is the one that changed everything.


Bob,

no need for a disclaimer ;) that's probably one of the best statements on behalf of the 16 ;)

:)

Ed Donnelly
05-27-2010, 12:23 PM
Bob; Very well said.. I love my Criterion, but, my 16' was hands down, 10 times the boat............Ed

HOWARD O
05-27-2010, 09:41 PM
I think just because the poll says so, doesn't really make it so. :cool:

This would be a good subject for CUDA's statistic class. Only add two more variables. Such as the percentage of 18' owners on the website, which is more than likely the model that is vastly higher represented on donzi.net and also the percentage of 18 owners that voted in the poll. There has to be a certain bias, even though not everyone votes for the boat they actually own. I did NOT, but I had a 16 once too.

I am just trying to justify why anyone could possibly vote for anything else than the ski sporter! I have a 22 now and love it, but I can't deny the 16 as king. :wink:

Once again, this has been the poll of all polls, Mattyboy! :yes:

sweet 16 1966
06-02-2010, 10:31 PM
Not everyone has experienced a 16. I'll bet many have begun with a larger ride hence they just don't know.

GBond
08-05-2010, 08:01 PM
I'm sure this has been answered before. But, what was the gap between the first consumer 16 build, and when we started seeing 18's come out the door?

Marlin275
08-05-2010, 08:05 PM
I'm sure this has been answered before. But, what was the gap between the first consumer 16 build, and when we started seeing 18's come out the door?


Ski Sporter 16' (64-80) (89-Present)
2+3 (18) (65-present)

http://www.donzi.net/forums/easy_pages.php?p=2

GBond
08-05-2010, 08:29 PM
So, roughly 12 months between both, hitting the waterways. Wonder what the price difference was and who was purchasing in the mid 60's?

gcarter
08-05-2010, 08:47 PM
I'd like to posit a theory about the 16.........
After visiting my last antique boat show at Tavares/Mt Dora, I noticed most of the boats less than 20' long were between 12' and 16'. That also stands to reason considering the size of the economy during the postwar years and the amount of disposable income.
There were tons of outboard powered mahogony plywood boats, along w/more conventional wood construction inboards w/60-80 HP Hercules and Continental powered runabouts.
The very first fiberglass boats appeared in the late '40's and were larger rather than smaller because there's a greater possibility of a profit w/a larger boat if they can be sold. It took probably 25 years for 'glass to be accepted by the boat building and the public.
The very first deep vee, as we know it, was designed and built by Ray Hunt in about '57 or so, and he based his work on Dr. Lindsay Lord's.
Dick Bertram bought Ray Hunt's services and went racing, quite successfully, I might add, in about '60 or so.
Then a lot of people on both sides of the Atlantic noticed all the fun Bertram was having.
Suddenly a lot of wealthy people were going racing in very expensive wood and fiberglass deep vee race boats.
In summary, the 16 was the first 'glass 24* deep vee high production boat that "looked" like the "new" race boats that had captured everyone's attention. Further, many could afford them, or it was in a price range that people were comfortable with.
I remember the first 16 I ever saw. It belonged to the girlfriend of a co-worker at NASA in about '67.
I was smitten.
Just like I described above, it had the "LOOK".
It was the real thing (almost) in a package I could almost afford, well, at least my buddy's girlfriend could.
It was one of those monumental things that changes history.
There's hardly anyone over 40 that hasn't heard of a 16. Many that are a little older, like myself, remember the day their boating world changed forever.

OK, let's move forward. We all love the 16. When I decided to actually look for a Donzi, the 16 was my first search choice. Looking back, I'm glad I decided on something a little larger.
Please don't throw rocks at me, but I think 16's are great lake boats, and for water sports. While a 16 is a better boat for rougher/bigger water than other 16 brands, it's still only a 16.
All I'm suggesting is that maybe the legend is a little bigger than the boat actually is.

GBond
08-05-2010, 09:07 PM
Interesting post George..Thanx

Marlin275
08-05-2010, 09:20 PM
Wonder what the price difference was and who was purchasing in the mid 60's?

When I was a kid in Lighthouse Point Florida
and these boats showed up in 65
the wealthy kids owned them and that was it.
They were on davits and out of the water.
They were relatively expensive just like today.

Everyone had Whalers and Wellcrafts before the Don.


http://www.donzi.net/cat/cat69/price5.jpg


http://www.donzi.net/cat/cat69/price2.jpg

gcarter
08-05-2010, 09:35 PM
Those are the prices I remember. As I said, the prices were at a level that if you threw your resources at it, you could do it. But you probably wouldn't.
Along a similar note, I remember having a discussion w/another buddy who'd just found an unsold 427 Cobra that was available at a Ford dealer in Houston. He was so excited. He told me if he emptied his savings and borrowed a few thousand, he could come up w/the $6,500.00
Yep, that's right, they couldn't be sold at the time. This was in about '66 and engineers made probably $12K-$15K/anum.
Another interesting thing to remember is original 427 Cobras go for $1M plus today. Not so 16's.

Marlin275
08-05-2010, 09:44 PM
Along a similar note, I remember having a discussion w/another buddy who'd just found an unsold 427 Cobra that was available at a Ford dealer in Houston. He was so excited. He told me if he emptied his savings and borrowed a few thousand, he could come up w/the $6,500.00
Yep, that's right, they couldn't be sold at the time. This was in about '66 and engineers made probably $12K-$15K/anum.
Another interesting thing to remember is original 427 Cobras go for $1M plus today. Not so 16's.

There was a kid that drove to my high school in a 427 Cobra 1967.
It was a private school and all but still
those were the days!

GBond
08-07-2010, 09:36 AM
How can you view, who voted what model? :biggrin:

HOWARD O
08-07-2010, 03:43 PM
Please don't throw rocks at me, but I think 16's are great lake boats, and for water sports. While a 16 is a better boat for rougher/bigger water than other 16 brands, it's still only a 16.
All I'm suggesting is that maybe the legend is a little bigger than the boat actually is.

I can't argue with your theory, I'm sure it's mostly correct. And I'm not hurling stones either, HOWEVER the 16 was not only a better boat for rough water than other 16's, it was better than a lot of much longer boats too. THAT is what made it a legend. You see the boat itself was bigger than it actually was. I'd venture to say that, foot for foot, it can handle more than any other Donzi model ever made. That is what I think makes it more significant and more of a legend.

Good post, George, fun read. This has been a really great thread! :yes:

GBond
08-07-2010, 09:21 PM
Yes, Good thread/read, with lots of interesting veiws. This is what forums are all about.

Marlin275
08-07-2010, 09:42 PM
HOWEVER the 16 was not only a better boat for rough water than other 16's, it was better than a lot of much longer boats too. THAT is what made it a legend. You see the boat itself was bigger than it actually was. I'd venture to say that, foot for foot, it can handle more than any other Donzi model ever made. That is what I think makes it more significant and more of a legend.
Good post, George, fun read. This has been a really great thread! :yes:
I agree that the 16 was the best
for her size and then some
But Wynne/Walters/Aronow
made the 16 better at 18
many have said that
18 handles better
and we have the proof
the X-18 has the classic speed record of all time
120 mph
and then some . . .

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=57804&d=1281232250


Palisades Interstate Park looking South toward NYC, Hudson River today . . .


http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=57805&d=1281232250

Like rolling into New York City
riding on the Donzi
just right . . .

gcarter
08-08-2010, 11:25 AM
[quote=HOWARD O;573978]I can't argue with your theory, I'm sure it's mostly correct. And I'm not hurling stones either, HOWEVER the 16 was not only a better boat for rough water than other 16's, it was better than a lot of much longer boats too. THAT is what made it a legend. You see the boat itself was bigger than it actually was. I'd venture to say that, foot for foot, it can handle more than any other Donzi model ever made. That is what I think makes it more significant and more of a legend.


My beginning point was that the competition was mostly wood and plywood runabouts. They had very fine bows and mostly flat bottoms because there wasn't a lot of power available in the 12'-16' market.
It was mostly the emergence of the outdrive, fiberglass, and most importantly, Ray Hunt's much copied deep vee hull that made the Donzi 16 the success it was.
Today, it's still a great little boat, but we expect a lot more because of our experiences in a much changed world.

HOWARD O
08-15-2010, 04:48 PM
I agree that the 16 was the best
for her size and then some
But Wynne/Walters/Aronow
made the 16 better at 18
many have said that
18 handles better
and we have the proof
the X-18 has the classic speed record of all time
120 mph
and then some . . .

I don't know about "handles better" but it probably rides better, it is 2 feet longer after all.

As for Mighty Mouse, that's a red herring because I think the fact that it's been pushed by an Arneson drive makes the point moot in a way.

Are there better Donzis than the 16? Of course, but that's not what this poll was about. :confused:

Marlin275
08-15-2010, 05:37 PM
Are there better Donzis than the 16? Of course, but that's not what this poll was about. :confused:

This is what the poll is about:
"The most significant Donzi ever made has far as performance,styling,mass appeal,and impact on the boating industry???"

performance - 18 rides better and handles better.
styling - just about even
mass appeal - the 16 was discontinued from 1980-1989
impact on the boating industry - 18 most copied, bigger sales numbers, longest production run


I'd venture to say that, foot for foot, it can handle more than any other Donzi model ever made. That is what I think makes it more significant and more of a legend.


foot for foot - 18 takes it
poll results - 18 takes it

Originally Posted by BIG BAD DONZI, AKA - Michael Aronow

"While I loved driving the 16', I felt safer and more secure in the 18'. The ride was not as wild."

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=33664


http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=57960&stc=1&d=1281908582

mattyboy
08-18-2010, 09:32 AM
all great arguements but I think alot of the votes the 18 has gotten is more a popular vote

18 most copied?????????

I'd like to see that, think that title goes to the 16

vance, shepard, champ ,legend,python/viper and cobalt ( but cobalt did some 18 splashes though too)

the 16 was dropped from production from fear from a law suit not lack of appeal or sales

different decks

18 = 5 barrelback , 2+3, X18 ,corsican,OB

16= 5 skisporter,baby,sweet,classic,classic OB

BobinCovington
08-18-2010, 09:38 AM
Just for fun I looked up "significant" and yes I am biased toward the 16, but here goes...
sig-nif·i·cant Pronunciation: \-kənt\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin significant-, significans, present participle of significare to signify
Date: 1579
1 : having meaning; especially : suggestive (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/suggestive) <a significant glance>
2 a : having or likely to have influence or effect : important (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/important) <a significant piece of legislation>; also : of a noticeably or measurably large amount <a significant number of layoffs> <producing significant profits> b : probably caused by something other than mere chance

So if you consider that the original 16 Ski Sporter shattered the 1960s image of a sport boat and changed what was the industry standard at the time and also influenced every one of the later designs of Donzi and even had major impact on other boats. The first Donzi may have created the category of Family or Affordable Performance Boat. I would say the first is the most significant.
Was the 16 perfect, no, but if you asked which was the most significant "improvement" over the original design, or the best handling, then the answer might be the 18 or others. (if the 18 had been the first, then I would have thought it deserved most significant...but it wasn't)

Aren't polls fun, we all love our boats. Just my $0.02 worth...

mattyboy
08-18-2010, 12:57 PM
just some facts to mull over.

when the 16 was dropped from production there were more 16 hulls produced than 18 hulls ( just base models not different variations not including the X 18 or corsican or the baby 16) by about 45 if the variations are tallied the 18 has approx 10 to 15 more hulls. which is in the percentage of the fudge factor in any poll. Judging by production numbers up to 1980 if production was not stopped on the 16 the 18 would have never closed the gap.I would love to be able to find OMC market research data on the re-introduction of the sweet 16. obiviously the 18 wasn't all that and a bag of chips and they opted to re introduce a new 16 right from the molds up that says something doesn't it???

mattyboy
08-18-2010, 10:05 PM
one matter for the record.

production on the 16 was stopped twice the first being the 80-89/90 break all models then it was shelved again by AMH in the late 99/00 ish model year just the lounge seat sweet 16 then re introduced by them in 2006 for the 2007 model year.

so send it away and it keeps coming back pretty significant achievement wouldn't ya say

gcarter
08-18-2010, 11:10 PM
one matter for the record.

production on the 16 was stopped twice the first being the 80-89/90 break all models then it was shelved again by AMH in the late 99/00 ish model year just the lounge seat sweet 16 then re introduced by them in 2006 for the 2007 model year.

so send it away and it keeps coming back pretty significant achievement wouldn't ya say

I don't know what new 16's cost, but they're probably the least expensive too. From a marketing standpoint, I'm sure it makes sense to have an entry level Donzi.

Greg Guimond
08-19-2010, 04:07 AM
I'm not sure it can even be debated...........

1. The 1st 16's were utterly unique in the boating industry at the time, ushering in a paradigm shift in the performance segment.
2. Overall, from the start in 1966 to today it is the longest running hull design, not only in the segment but the industry. In autos, the equivalent would be the 911.
3. When a random person thinks Donzi, fair to say the 16 Ski Sporter is the reference point, the model awareness is that significant.
4. If one had access to validated records, there were more 16's built then any other Donzi model in history.

:cool:

mattyboy
08-19-2010, 08:22 AM
I'm not sure it can even be debated...........

1. The 1st 16's were utterly unique in the boating industry at the time, ushering in a paradigm shift in the performance segment.
2. Overall, from the start in 1966 to today it is the longest running hull design, not only in the segment but the industry. In autos, the equivalent would be the 911.
3. When a random person thinks Donzi, fair to say the 16 Ski Sporter is the reference point, the model awareness is that significant.
4. If one had access to validated records, there were more 16's built then any other Donzi model in history.

:cool:

Greg you were rolling along great til you got to 4

10 years of non production gave the total production and longevity to the 18 rougly 40 hulls a year that's 400 some odd 18s.

number 2 has some shaky ground to it too. not sure longest is the right term oldest maybe the factory has since 1965 til now had an 18 mold onsite. during the stoppage there were no 16 molds at the factory, when the 16 came back out they needed to pull a plug off a splash being made at the time. most likely the molds were destroyed or sold off by the Chisholm's prior to the sale to Staples.

George I would Imagine that the raw cost and margins could be minimized and the 18 could be made the entry level boat price wise. there's not much difference in raw cost but again the 16 is more versitile if you look at performance with all available power.
I agree a 4.3 merc setup cost alot less from merc than a 350 bravo. the 16 performs well with a 4.3 or a 350 the 18 I imagine would be a little sluggish with a 4.3.
so I bet that reasoning had something to do with adding the add'l overhead and cost to bring it back into the fold

HOWARD O
08-19-2010, 06:47 PM
There are just more 18 owners here. I would also bet that more 18 footers voted for the 16 than vice versa. Which leads us to #5 in Greg's list:

5. The 16 rules, the 18 drools...... :yes:


Though truth be told, the 18 is my favorite... :cool:

BobinCovington
08-19-2010, 07:49 PM
LOL I agree.
I love my 16, but the extra 2 feet look like it makes a lot of difference in the ride and comfort of the 18 foot Donzi. Us guys always want just a little more length to brag about...:yes:

Marlin275
08-19-2010, 08:02 PM
Though truth be told, the 18 is my favorite... :cool:

When I was buying
I considered both the 16 & 18.

The X-18 factor was too much to pass up.

The 18 is just more refined . . .


http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=58058&stc=1&d=1282262687

HOWARD O
08-20-2010, 12:58 AM
Us guys always want just a little more length to brag about...:yes:

And here I had to get a 22 to overcome my shortcomings! :boggled:

HOWARD O
08-20-2010, 12:59 AM
When I was buying
I considered both the 16 & 18.

The X-18 factor was too much to pass up.

The 18 is just more refined . . .


http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=58058&stc=1&d=1282262687


Love the flag too! I've got to get one for my boat.:yes:

Kirbyvv
08-20-2010, 08:43 AM
Personally I love the design of the X-18. The 18 may have it over the 16 in total numbers made, but I agree, when someone thinks of the first Donzi they ever saw, I bet it was a 16.

mattyboy
08-20-2010, 10:31 AM
re reading this post

two questions I have one was posted some 4 years ago

the 18 guys when an onlooker at the ramp calls your boat a sweet 16 does it bother you???
the other
can anyone please post up the article from powerboat magazine with the 18 listed in the 10 ten cult classic boats of all time??? wait sorry that was the 16 ;) :p


the 1975 ford LTD sedan rides better and performs better than the the ford tin lizzy probably has more production numbers too but I am not sure a case can be made for the LTD as being significant in the ford world
:yes:

Marlin275
08-20-2010, 10:33 AM
Love the flag too! I've got to get one for my boat.:yes:

That flag is very useful.
New York City is very international and diverse . . .

Ever since the Cole incident and 9/11
it has helped to show
your true colors . . .

gcarter
08-20-2010, 11:05 AM
re reading this post

two questions I have one was posted some 4 years ago

the 18 guys when an onlooker at the ramp calls your boat a sweet 16 does it bother you???
the other
can anyone please post up the article from powerboat magazine with the 18 listed in the 10 ten cult classic boats of all time??? wait sorry that was the 16 ;) :p


the 1975 ford LTD sedan rides better and performs better than the the ford tin lizzy probably has more production numbers too but I am not sure a case can be made for the LTD as being significant in the ford world
:yes:

I had so many people ask if my Minx was a Sweet 16 that I finally started saying that "Yes, it was, just 4' longer".

Marlin275
08-20-2010, 11:24 AM
the 18 guys when an onlooker at the ramp calls your boat a sweet 16 does it bother you???

Last week at the JFK Marina boat ramp
a guy comes up and is all excited and animated.
I am all set to explain that this 37 year old boat is still in production
as a flat deck version,
and all he wants to know about is my 28 year old Lincoln Mark 6.

Turns out he worked for a Lincoln dealership years ago . . .

You just don't know what you are gonna get . . .

dsparis
08-20-2010, 11:58 AM
Gotta have a flag

fogducker III
08-21-2010, 01:15 AM
Yes,flags are good, trying to get our PM to change to this instead of the Maple Leaf.....:wink:

CHACHI
08-21-2010, 07:15 AM
When I am out in my Cobra, people ask,"what year Corvette". After 20 years of this abuse, I just tell them it is a '66 and they are happy with that.

Ken

mattyboy
08-21-2010, 12:03 PM
When I am out in my Cobra, people ask,"what year Corvette". After 20 years of this abuse, I just tell them it is a '66 and they are happy with that.

Ken


Ken, ouch that's gotta leave a mark ;)

but that is a very good illustration

just like kleenex and coke or cigarette are brands that become nouns or names for their type of product
"give me a coke not a cola flavored soft drink" I believe the 16 has done that with in the donzi line up.

the simple way to do this is look at it from the "it's a wonderful life" point of view

if there were no 16 would there have ever been an 18?? minx?? 22??

hmmmmm??????

Cuda
08-21-2010, 12:23 PM
An AC Cobra is my favorite car ever made.

Marlin275
08-21-2010, 01:08 PM
An AC Cobra is my favorite car ever made.


No room for any debate on that one . . .

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42778&d=1233452857l
HM 427 factory Competition Cobra, CSX 3026
Shelby wanted it to be a "Corvette-Beater" and at nearly 500 lb less than the Chevrolet Corvette, the lightweight car did just that.

This one is the favorite in the rain . . .

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42773&d=1233451256l
HM made the Ferrari Killers engines.

mattyboy
08-21-2010, 04:48 PM
now those are significant :yes:

CHACHI
08-22-2010, 07:15 AM
now those are significant :yes:

+1

Ken

HOWARD O
10-02-2010, 10:49 PM
Enough of the Austin Healeys and Bradley GT's, can we get back to Donzis? :lol9:

OFFSHORE GINGER
12-26-2010, 05:17 PM
21 -gt.

mattyboy
09-23-2011, 08:48 AM
as of Sept 23 2011 with some new members voting for their classic. the base results have not changed the 16 and the 22 up and down a few percentage points but the 18 still in the lead.


18 16 22

mattyboy
02-27-2012, 02:17 PM
feb 2012 still no real change 18 16 22

CrackerJack
03-15-2012, 05:18 PM
My vote is for the 16'. When I was 18 years old we would go down and watch thru the fence at the 16's being made on Thunderboat row. (188th st).

mattyboy
07-03-2012, 06:25 AM
july 2012, the spots haven't changed but the margins are closing for the 16 5 % points and 25 votes while the 22 has fallen off the pace a bit 10% points and 45 votes

CrackerJack
07-04-2012, 09:41 AM
If not for the 16, would there have been other Donzi's to vote for? Wasn't the 16 the Genesis of Donzi? Other Donzi's are probably more desirable, however in my humble but accurate opinion the 16 is the most significant.

72183

The Original Thrill Ride!

mattyboy
07-04-2012, 11:17 AM
CrackerJack,

very sound reasoning in my Book.

Ghost
07-04-2012, 11:47 AM
Agreed...I voted 18 and later realized more of the history and changed my mind to 16, but I can't change it in the poll. So you can count the real poll numbers as being a little closer than they look.

Pat McPherson
02-05-2013, 09:42 PM
The 18 for sure...

Marlin275
02-06-2013, 12:07 PM
An 18 with the same power and out drive will be a few mph faster than a 16.

This makes the 18' more significant.

mattyboy
02-13-2013, 07:31 AM
Feb 2013 still no real change 18 by about 6% over the 16 which is 5% over the 22

BLACKBOX
01-13-2014, 07:02 PM
The masses don't know the Donzi 18 2+3 (admit it, it's not a great name) - The most recognizable Donzi out there, by far, is what the public calls the "Sweet 16" - It was also #1 in the Jul/Aug 2011 BOATING MAGAZINE poll of most recognizable classic boats. It's like the Lockheed SR-71 - name another iconic Lockheed design (the U2 is not aesthetically pleasing to look at) - it's the same with this timeless design. It's an iconic boat - to me, anyway, this makes it the most significant Donzi.

OFFSHORE GINGER
01-13-2014, 08:30 PM
+1

Ken
X-2 on that .

mattyboy
01-13-2014, 08:30 PM
1-13-14 check in

the real race is in the classic line, the other boats have fallen way off the pace.

the larger boats the 38ZR is king followed by the blackwidow and the 35zr


in the rare or uncommon classics the benchseat is king followed by the Criter and then the minx

in the classic line the 18 is opening up the gap a bit and the 16 has slipped a notch or two but still in 2nd followed up by the 22

Ed Donnelly
01-14-2014, 03:13 PM
I think if people could go back and change what they originally clicked on, the 16 would be the leader
I chose the Criterion because I have one, but, bang for the buck
the 16 I had would win hands down..Ed

woobs
01-14-2014, 03:27 PM
I agree with ED, I voted for the 18 2+3 because I had one but, also because that what I saw the most of. Now I see Ski Sporters everywhere! (and I like to think I've learned a bit about the marque since buying my first) I would support the Ski sporter 16 if asked again.

mattyboy
01-16-2014, 09:14 AM
In researching data for our website and having a chance to talk to people who were there in the "DAY". Has confirmed in my mind that the 16 SkiSporter is it.

Without it NONE of what we now call the classics would be around. It paved the way for all the others.

We recently just past the holiday season and if we did " the Harry Bailey It's a wonderful life" thingy and the 16 Not been made, all of the 18s barrelback , classic,corsican, x-18 would not exist then a step further all of the 22 footers the 3 critters, the f 22 the 22 and all of the different editions would not be around.

The hornets may have progressed to the II and III and the 21gt may have come around but the core of the donzi line up that we know and love would not be there.

wwahl
01-16-2014, 05:58 PM
The 16' was a practice run for the 18'. I have had two 16's and my present 18'. There is a whole lot more boat in the 18' than the 2' of additional length would indicate, wider too.

mattyboy
01-17-2014, 08:31 AM
The 16' was a practice run for the 18'. I have had two 16's and my present 18'. There is a whole lot more boat in the 18' than the 2' of additional length would indicate, wider too.


well technically it's not 2 feet it is 16 1/2 inches longer, all added fwd of midship. and the 16 18 and 22 are all 24X7 boats so they are all 7 feet wide but yes without the lounge seat the cockpit area has more width on the 18. with the changes in running surface the 18 rides bigger than a 16 and so on as the 22 rides bigger than an 18

woobs
01-19-2014, 01:43 PM
The 16' was a practice run for the 18'. I have had two 16's and my present 18'. There is a whole lot more boat in the 18' than the 2' of additional length would indicate, wider too.

I thought the 16' was an original production boat. The 18' and 22' just being later stretched developments ....