Z-25 For Sale?

[fish369]

Anybody know anything about this boat,for sale off the Long Island sound, repowered, etc,etc. Anybody near there?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4639764410&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

[fish369]

Anybody near this boat? Seller doesn't seem to know a whole lot about it. Just need a reason to pull the trigger!! What is the opinion of these Z series boats, my buddy had a yellow one and it was a stunner! He ran the h... out of that thing. Any help would be appreciated.

[Dregsz]

Not as desirable as the "Classics" but still a very nice boat.
THey can be made to run quick and a 502 is the right motor for that boat.
I didn't look at all the pics so I'm not commenting on that boat in partiular, but in good shape, w a good motor at $12K I might pull the trigger on one.

[Donzigo]

.............easy there, DREGZ, I've owned 2. I owned a 1987 Z-25 for 8 years, and have owned the 1989 Z-33 for 4. I love the lines. They are sturdy, heavy, great rides in the ocean, and they are fun to own. Perhaps a little slower by today's standards; but, the ride makes up for it, IMHO.(And, yes, DREGZ, they aren't as collectable as the classics.) But, they are "head-turners" just the same, I alway get compliments every weekend at Shell Island.

OK, so, here's the skinny, you need to check the stringers out in any Donzi built from 1987 to 1990. The places to look are on the transom and around the outdrive and take the inspection covers off and tap the stringers, where they meet the hull everywhere you can reach. If you hear a hollow spot, you've got problems. The Z-33 had to have the front floor replaced, everything else is fine. But, I had $14,400 of stringer work done on my Z-25. We dis-assembled the boat and re-built almost the entire stringer system. If your stringers are good, then you need to know that if has NOT been replaced, the fuel tank will have to be replaced, no question about it, don't even try to talk me out of it. And, I'll even go so far to stick my neck out and say that if any person on this board has NOT replced their fuel tank on one of these Z-boats from this era, you are "at risk"; and, I definitely wouldn'd let anyuone smoke on my boat. The reason: During the late 80's, the tanks were built by the company in Perry, Florida, (can't rememebr, ask George Carter), and they were built with slightly less thickness, than what they are today. Get this, when I replaced the 200 gallon tank in my Z-33, it was only 1/20th of an inch thick from corrosion, in places. The thickness of 1/8 inch would not be allowed today for a tank of that size. The tanks corrode on the bottom, from water intrusion into the fuel well, which does not drain out. (It's the way all manufacturer's have to build them, Federal code). Anyway, the tank will look great on the top, and even on the inside, should you look through the fuel sender hole; but, it will be corroded on the bottom. It only started out with 1/8th of an inch thickness; so, just a little corrosion will make that 1/16th of an inch thickness. It looks likes small craters in the metal. Anyone who has doen this job, will testify to this. Fuel tanks, if TOTALLT DRY, will last a number of years; but, if they are stored outside, or washed down, from salt water use, (as we do here in Florida), they will last no more than 10 years. They generally can be bought for $6 per gallon. I paid JTR, of Gulfport, Florida, $900 for the replacement tank for the Z-33, 140 gallons. (didn't go back with that 200 gallons). One more thing, have the tank painted and use large stainless steel valves on the new ones. Again, the old valves are not up to today's codes.

Having said all this, if I haven' totally scared you, the boat is priced right, IF the stringers are perfect. You are buying what looks to be a very good MPI 502 engine and outdrive and getting a hull for free. With a little love, this boat will last you for years and is a neat "smile machine".

Throw me a call if you like, I have completely taken apart, retrofitted, and replaced every wire, gauge, upholstry, engines, outdrives, all mechanical parts of both boats. It's fair to say that I know the Z-25 & Z-33 boats as well as any person on the board.

Richard Aaron
727-867-7020
St. Pete, Florida.

[oilman]

Yikes

Great information Richard, looks like I'll be looking into the fuel tank a little further. Dont be scared Fish the Z is a great boat, any boat will have issues-now you just know what to look for. Andy if your watching any info the tank??

[Andy McCarty]

Hey OIlman how are things? To answer your question i did not have the tank professionally looked at but Big "D" recomended the replacement to me 2 1/2 year ago. I had it looked at. BUT if you cannot tell from the top i am not sure we where looking at the same thing. "D" does this pertain to boats that have always been stored out of the water? Or mostly boats left in the water or washed down and water left in them? Oilman i would be safe and have it checked. Wish i could offer more. When i had it looked at they said it looked good. For the life of me i can not remember who looked at it or i would call him.

Sorry not much help.

BTW the FORMULA is Great. I will have to get some pictures out to you.

Andy

[oilman]

no problem Andy, I'm always checking the bilge before ignition but sounds to me from what Richard is saying maybe the gas wont drain into the bilge if the tank leaks? Oh well, I'll add it to the to do list. I've checked talk about other boats thinking I'll see a post and pics of the formula, whats the hold up:biggrin:

[penbroke]

.... maybe the gas wont drain into the bilge if the tank leaks? ....

Not sure about the Z's but in general the fuel tank is in a compartment that does not drain into the main bilge. We can check it out...


Frank

[Donzigo]

Yes, you are right, the fuel tank manufacturing codes do not allow the compartment to drain into the engine compartment, for obvious reasons. The race boat DO drain their compartments and, when I replaced my fuel tank, I did cut a hole in the front and back of the compartment and mine drains too. That's the reason that I had the new fuel tank primed and painted. I did NOT replace the foam around the tank. That's the culprit that holds water and corrodes the tanks.

If there is or has been water on the floor of that boat, for any reason, over the years, the water will collect and go through the inspection hatches on the foam and then on to the bottom of the tank compartment. I'd bet money that I'm right, on any of these Z-boats; because they are ALL over 10 years old.

I go round and round on this subject on the board. It's one of those "fueding things". It's work and money to replace them & people just don't want to think about it or admit that it might be true. But, the people who replace them, always find that they were bad.

My opinion is if you are going to keep the boat long term and concerned with safety..................well, you see where that leads, right?

[fish369]

That's why I came here with my questions. You guys are the dudes with the anwsers. Boat has spent most of it's life cruising in salt water which doesn't bode well for a Michigan fresh water boy. Also has bottom paint on it really turns me off. I don't have any knowledge of salt water so I guess perhaps I'm just scared of the unknown. But it does seem like a good price for some great power, with new upholstery, and a great looking hull.

[Donzigo]

Glad to see you're OK with the information. Some folks get offended at information that's not what they want to hear. My agenda is to inform with what I know to be true and I can back up with experience, nothing more.

I still think it's a good buy, for the right guy.

By the way: They never made a purple boat, I wonder how it got to be purple? And WHY? They tell me that people who like purple are "nuts" for it.

[oilman]

fish369, dudes w/ the answers? I dont think so, now all I have is more questions:boggled:

[fish369]

Dark Blue not purple, orignally was red I think. Information is knowledge whether you like it or not. Always appreciate a honest anwser. The salt water thing still has me up in arms. Just can't get over all that oxidation! Is it that bad help me out I'm trapped between all this fresh water.

[Donzigo]

It's not just the salt that's doing the damage. It's the SUN and the HEAT. A boat that is a dark color and that means it draws heat (like a dark colored car), and the UV rays bleach out the color fast. Red's the worst. That's why I cover my boats to the waterline. Salt water environments bleach boats faster; because, the boats are always in the sun, 100%. If you take a boat to the lake, there are trees, hills, etc, that block the sun momentarily or for a few minutes and that keeps the heat down considerably. FYI: People who don't wash their boats down, especially, in a salt water environment, after each use, no matter how tied they are, have boats that go down hill fast. I have seen some that are one year old and they are already a wreck.

"Big-D" is 20 years old and shows nicely. She gets washed and a 10 minute flush with JOY, each and every time she touchs the water, no exceptions. UUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHH, can you tell that I am excentric. I've done it the other way and I've made all the mistakes. Because, I've learned from the school of hard knocks, the information belongs to me and nobody can tell me anything different.

[sweet 16 1966]

1966 Donzi 16'
Replaced tank in 1988. GOOD THING AS IT WAS PITTED W/HOLES THROUGH-HENCE THE SMLL OF GAS WHEN I WAS YOUNG AND WE HAD NO BOARD TO ASK QUESTIONS. TRY LEARNING ABOUT FOAM WITH OUT THE KNOWLEDGE WE HAVE HERE!
2004 AFTER BEING STORED INSIDE ALL ITS LIFE AND USED MOSTLY IN FRESH WATER. WELL IT WAS VERY CLOSE TO PITTING AGAIN. BOTH TANKS HAVE BEEN PURCHASES FROM RDS- PERRY FLA.
SOME SAY WATER W/O PRESENCE OF h20 WILL ACCELERATE ALUMN PITTING. THAT IS THE ENVIRONMENT FOAM CREATES.
HERE IS A PIC IF MY SECOND TANK.
iT IS A PIS OF A 20 YEAR OLD TANK-ALUM- STORED INSIDE.
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=36675

[Donzigo]

Good picture........both of mine looked like that.

[Proell]

.............easy there, DREGZ, I've owned 2. I owned a 1987 Z-25 for 8 years, and have owned the 1989 Z-33 for 4. I love the lines. They are sturdy, heavy, great rides in the ocean, and they are fun to own. Perhaps a little slower by today's standards; but, the ride makes up for it, IMHO.(And, yes, DREGZ, they aren't as collectable as the classics.) But, they are "head-turners" just the same, I alway get compliments every weekend at Shell Island.
OK, so, here's the skinny, you need to check the stringers out in any Donzi built from 1987 to 1990. The places to look are on the transom and around the outdrive and take the inspection covers off and tap the stringers, where they meet the hull everywhere you can reach. If you hear a hollow spot, you've got problems. The Z-33 had to have the front floor replaced, everything else is fine. But, I had $14,400 of stringer work done on my Z-25. We dis-assembled the boat and re-built almost the entire stringer system. If your stringers are good, then you need to know that if has NOT been replaced, the fuel tank will have to be replaced, no question about it, don't even try to talk me out of it. And, I'll even go so far to stick my neck out and say that if any person on this board has NOT replced their fuel tank on one of these Z-boats from this era, you are "at risk"; and, I definitely wouldn'd let anyuone smoke on my boat. The reason: During the late 80's, the tanks were built by the company in Perry, Florida, (can't rememebr, ask George Carter), and they were built with slightly less thickness, than what they are today. Get this, when I replaced the 200 gallon tank in my Z-33, it was only 1/20th of an inch thick from corrosion, in places. The thickness of 1/8 inch would not be allowed today for a tank of that size. The tanks corrode on the bottom, from water intrusion into the fuel well, which does not drain out. (It's the way all manufacturer's have to build them, Federal code). Anyway, the tank will look great on the top, and even on the inside, should you look through the fuel sender hole; but, it will be corroded on the bottom. It only started out with 1/8th of an inch thickness; so, just a little corrosion will make that 1/16th of an inch thickness. It looks likes small craters in the metal. Anyone who has doen this job, will testify to this. Fuel tanks, if TOTALLT DRY, will last a number of years; but, if they are stored outside, or washed down, from salt water use, (as we do here in Florida), they will last no more than 10 years. They generally can be bought for $6 per gallon. I paid JTR, of Gulfport, Florida, $900 for the replacement tank for the Z-33, 140 gallons. (didn't go back with that 200 gallons). One more thing, have the tank painted and use large stainless steel valves on the new ones. Again, the old valves are not up to today's codes.
Having said all this, if I haven' totally scared you, the boat is priced right, IF the stringers are perfect. You are buying what looks to be a very good MPI 502 engine and outdrive and getting a hull for free. With a little love, this boat will last you for years and is a neat "smile machine".
Throw me a call if you like, I have completely taken apart, retrofitted, and replaced every wire, gauge, upholstry, engines, outdrives, all mechanical parts of both boats. It's fair to say that I know the Z-25 & Z-33 boats as well as any person on the board.
Richard Aaron
727-867-7020
St. Pete, Florida.

Richard

You really know your stuff!

I have a 1988 Z21 454. Great shape, all freshwater use here in Canada.
This is my 4th summer & I have 2 basic problems.
1) It seems slow, low 50's with a 23 pitch Mirage
2) It porposes when you trim it out to get more speed.

I am cosidering re-powering (495 or 502), but I am not sure if a) the hull can take it, b) this will cure the porposing.

I know the 21 is not your forte, but any advice or speculation would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Pete

[boldts]

Hi Pete. Welcome to the Registry! On your Z-21 question, I'd recomend first try a search here on that model. EricG has owned one in the past and if I remember right, Formula Jr. just wrote about the very issues your talking abour with that model. It seems that Formula Jr. felt it was a weight issues with the boat needing more weight near the transom. Most of the boats unless they've been modified came with a small block engine. Formula Jr. mentioned that the weight of a few more cubes like a big block engine would really help the boat as far as poposing and finding the so called "Sweet Spot" when triming the boat. Just a thought for you.