More motorcycle history....

[gcarter]

I recently bought a book on eBay (man, but I love books) which contain blowups of British motorcycle engines.:yes:
It was printed in 1954, the first edition was in 1950, so most of this info dates from 1950.
I've scanned the pages containing two of those engines; first, the JAP V-twin 1000 cc, which was somewhat similar to a Harley, only with quite a bit more potential. Take a look at page 4 for HP ratings.
Next, that somewhat quirky Ariel Square Four, also of one liter displacement.
Hopefully, you'll find this pretty interesting.

[gcarter]

Next the "Squariel"...

[Ed Donnelly]

G.C. Harleys have made leaps and bounds with their horsepower.
Just took them 50 yrs longer and more CC's
Thanks for posting it..........Ed

[BERTRAM BOY]

George,
Are there any cutaways of Vincents?

[gcarter]

Why yes, it does. I should have thought to show that one as it's one of my favorites.
Some of you may not know that Vincents had no frame. The front suspension hung off the front cylinder head and the rear suspension hung off the rear cylinder. It also had one of the first monoshock rear suspensions,.....from pretty early in the '30's to it's demise in the early 60's.

[CHACHI]

Why yes, it does. I should have thought to show that one as it's one of my favorites.
Some of you may not know that Vincents had no frame. The front suspension hung off the front cylinder head and the rear suspension hung off the rear cylinder. It also had one of the first monoshock rear suspensions,.....from pretty early in the '30's to it's demise in the early 60's..............and people think todays technology is new. All we have is better machining and metalurgy. Ken

[BERTRAM BOY]

Ken,
You got it!!!! BMW's telelever design was actually done over 50 years ago on the Vincent.
George, can you tell us the name of the book?
BTW, check this out http://harrisvincentgallery.com/
BERTRAM BOY

[sweet 16 1966]

George, you do go way back with your interest in older cycles/ engines.
Mine is the last year for the ironhead and is in great original condition.
So... its not a sportbike but reliable and good for the short distance riding I do.
Interesting though George.

[BERTRAM BOY]

Wow cool bike. They really haven't changed them all that much over the years. Here's a pic of my wife's 2005.

[gcarter]

I'll get the title and publishing info tonight and post it.
I remember as a youngster in jr. high school, the urban legend du jour was that Vincents had been banned in the US because they were too fast!!!
That pic of that guy stretched out on the Black Prince (I think) was an attempt at aerodynamics. That's a very famous foto. That was at Banneville in about 1955. They hit over 150 MPH.
It seems I've always been behind the curve on owning a Vincent. A few years ago, they were $15-$20 K.
Now a good one is $50-$75 K !!!
For a short period of time in about 1960, I had a Sportster CH. It was a bear to get started as it had a magneto.

[DonziJon]

I see you Lerking there George. I havn't got time to comment on the subject because it's only about ten minutes to RUSH. John :lookaroun

[CHACHI]

Wow cool bike. They really haven't changed them all that much over the years. Here's a pic of my wife's 2005.................they almost have the tooling paid for. Just kidding they paid it all off last year. Ken

[BERTRAM BOY]

George,
You mean this one?

[MOP]

I had an Arial and a Black among quite a few others, the Shadow never got running it was a basket I sangged for spit, had good intentions but farted around to long. One of my buds told this guy I had one he pestered the crap out of me until I sold it to him for nearly 5 times what I paid for it. The arial though a pain to keep running right but handle pretty decent, liked my Lightening Rocket and Norton Atlas much better better. I should dig into my mess and post and see what pics I have I rode for a long time, I did dig up a few pics of one of our club rides awhile back and some good memories.

[gcarter]

George,
You mean this one?
Yeah that's the one. It looks like a stunt, they were very serious.
150 MPH bikes didn't exist in the '50's, so this was pretty spectacular.

[DonziJon]

1956 Ariel Square Four. Similar to Georges (Mk I) drawings except this is the Mk II four pipe model. Nice bike to ride. No one has ever heard of it before except an occassional "Old" Harley rider. This was an expensive bike for the time.. I think weighing in at around $3,400. The Vincent was about the same if memory serves me. Sounds like no other. John

EDIT: The picture didn't upload. Oh well. I'll figure it out some day.

[Ed Donnelly]

George; You should not have any problems id'ing this......Ed

[DonziJon]

Fourth Try:

EDIT: Yippee: Sorry for the file size. Now when I figure out how to scale down the file size, I'll be good to go... And I have a Dial Up. John

[Ed Donnelly]

DonziJon; SWEET:shades: ......Ed

Geez,now I don't even want to show my little English bike

[gcarter]

George; You should not have any problems id'ing this......Ed
A Triumph twin of some vintage?

[gcarter]

DJ, I'm a little envious!!!!!
But if it were mine, it wouldn't have any rusty parts on it!!!

[DonziJon]

George: I was looking at that kick starter after I posted the picture. I was hoping no one would notice. This bike has never been restored..just some paint and polish here and there. By the way, I need to Correct the Price New that I posted above. The price for a NEW 1956 MK II in Britain was 266 Pounds Sterling..plus: 62 pounds, 8 Shillings in taxes if I'm reading the road test article in "Motor Cycling" correctly. Or about $1600. US. Still a lot of money for a motorcycle at the time. John

[gcarter]

DJ, I ran that through the inflation calculator and it comes to about $11,000.
That sounds about right.
It's really a nice bike.

[gcarter]

George, can you tell us the name of the book?
BERTRAM BOY
The name is;
MOTOR CYCLE ENGINES
Famous British Power Units Analysed by "The Motor Cycle" Staff
in Words and Drawings
Published for "The Motor Cycle" by Illife & Sons, Ltd
London
fifth printing - April, 1954

But another interesting book I have that may still be available is;
Vincent from 1938
Copyright EMAP National Publications Ltd 1988
ISBN 1 870979 01 X

This pic is from this book. Note that the fact it's frameless is really obvious in this picture;

[DonziJon]

George: I have that book "Vincent from 1938." I was looking for the guy in the bathing suit. No luck there..but.. I remember the guys name in the bathing suit. I havn't found the picture yet but his name is "Rollie Free". I guess there were a few guys that set records with a Vincent.

There's book on the Ariel Square Four called: guess what: "Ariel Square Four", by Roy Harper..Haynes Publishing Group, Newbury Park, CA. First published 1984.

There's another book called: ARIEL: The Post War Models, by Roy Bacon. Osprey Publishing. UK 1983, with much more info than the previous book mentioned. John

[DonziJon]

I am Remiss: Thanks ED for your kind remark. Very few people..motorcyclists, know what an Ariel Square Four is. There are so few Ariels around. John

[gcarter]

DJ, I just ran the price listed above for the 1952 Black Shadow through the inflation calculator and it came out to $14,440. That was a pretty expensive bike.

[Ed Donnelly]

George; 1969 T100S Tiger 500cc totally rebuilt in 99. Now has 400mi.since rebuild. Spent $7,000 on it.........Ed

[gcarter]

Triumph never built an ugly bike.:smile:
Very nice.
I always wanted one with the little wire rack on the tank.
Maybe if I sell the Minx...........

[DonziJon]

My first ride on a motorcycle was on a 1963/'64 Triumph 650 Bonneville in 1965. It had the little rack on the tank. It wasn't mine. At the time, I had a 1963 XKE roadster and a friend of mine had the bike. I wanted to borrow his bike for the weekend so I offered to loan him my car for the same period. He said "why not". He didn't know I had never ridden before. We were both in the Navy. It worked out pretty well though. The seed was planted. John :lookaroun

[Ed Donnelly]

DonziJon; Don't you just wish you still had your Jag?? 3.8 or 4.2? ...Ed

[DonziJon]

DonziJon; Don't you just wish you still had your Jag?? 3.8 or 4.2? ...Ed

ED: The Jag was a 3.8 with the covered headlights. It was my first sports car with roll up windows and a real folding top. You could actually raise the top with one hand at 50 MPH. In that car was the first, and last time I ever went 150 MPH on the road. I just did it once to see if it would do it. The exhaust manifold, which is normally porcelain coated, burnt off. At speed, you could see a white hot Glow shining through the hood louvers from the manifold which was white hot when we pulled over to see what the glow was. At idle, we could see the puffs of fire coming out of the cylinders into the manifold. I was afraid I had cooked the engine. The only damage was the burnt off porcelain.

Actually, I wish I had almost ALL the cars I had before I got married..not that there's anything wrong with marriage.

1. 1953 MGTD
2. 1955 Austin Heally 100-4
3. 1959 Austin Heally 100-6
4. 1963 Jag XKE
5. 1966 Chevelle 396 Convertable (new)
6. 1959 Austin Heally "Bugeye" Sprite (parts)
7. 1959 Austin Heally "Bugeye" Sprite w/ 1176cc engine.

Oh Wait: This is a motorcycle thread. I got carried away with "Nostalgia". John

[DonziJon]

George: I know you are a kind man and would not intentionaly raise concerns about rust on my old Ariel. But Alas. I have been driven to look further at the picture and I find More Rust. The most glaring is the front axle nut: That is unacceptable. The fender stay bolt just above that is a little "OFF" as well. "Oh The humanities". John :lookaroun

P.S.: I only ride this bike "maybe" 30 miles a year these days but it has always started up right off, with no more than 6 kicks. Never any smoke. When I got it in 1987, it had 67,000 miles on a "stopped" speedometer. I had that rebuilt and had a top end job done by a local "Vincent/Norton" restorer. The bottom end was perfect. Very nice to ride. A Restoration would NOT be ridden. A shame.:wavey:

[gcarter]

DJ, I'm a firm believer in unrestored vehicles. I always enjoy the Amelia Island Concours D'Elegance because they allow unrestored cars and bikes.
But if the Ariel were mine, I'd put a plated or SST axle nut on and have the starter plated. Or did it come w/a rubber piece on it?
I'm just giving you a hard time. But that's what I'd do.
Do you ever think about selling it?

[DonziJon]

DJ, I'm a firm believer in unrestored vehicles. I always enjoy the Amelia Island Concours D'Elegance because they allow unrestored cars and bikes.
But if the Ariel were mine, I'd put a plated or SST axle nut on and have the starter plated. Or did it come w/a rubber piece on it?
I'm just giving you a hard time. But that's what I'd do.
Do you ever think about selling it?

George: The kick starter once had a rubber on it which I used to keep myself supplied with whenever I'd go to swap meets..but I havn't been to one in years. Actually, the starter is two pieces threaded together but they do not show any interest in being seperated....probably need to use a little heat. Both pieces need chroming.

One of the most fun things about "Old" British bikes is the "Thread Systems" they used. (Read Plural) If there are 4 nuts that appear to be identical, they are likely to have 4 different thread forms for any given diameter. Whitworth is a mis-nomer. S.A.E.??? Not happening. The British motorcycle builders even had their "own" thread system just for motorcycles. BUT..they didn't always stick to it. Certain applications used certain thread forms...say axle nuts. One of the problems with replating a nut is, it's guaranteed you won't have the right tap to "chase" the threads after plating if needed. It wasn't just diameter and threads per inch..it was thread shape and angle. I keep a bag of old used (British) nuts, bolts and studs in case something falls off on the road. Once in awhile, I can find one that works.

A few years ago, the kick starter just disappeared while out on a ride. I discovered the loss when I got home. SO: I retraced the trip ON FOOT. It was over seven miles of walking through weeds and drainage ditches. Fortunately no aligators. Never did find the starter. I got the one that's on the bike now (used) from a place in Ohio that sometimes has used parts. :cool!: John