5lb. Fire Extinguiser not Enough...!!!

[DonziDave]

Here is an old thread that I post every year at the start of the season concerning how dangerous it is to only carry the minimum required fire extinguisher in your boat. Our Donzi's and lives are too precious to trust to inadequate equipment. Safety First!!


"On the subject of fire extinguishers, allow me to relate a personal experiance. I don't know how many of you have a boat fire, but I have. Words cannot describe the terror of seeing how fast the fire spreads and the sheer volume of flames. Because in the case of a fuel leak, the fuel pump has dumped a lot of gas before you realize your boat should not be smoking that much.
Many years ago I had a Rayson Craft flat bottom drag boat - 427 Holman Moody Ford - high rise manifold with dual Holleys - dry stack tuned headers over the transom - Cassal V-drive - 136 mph instantly - you get the picture (and I'm still alive).
Anyway, while blasting down the lake I popped a fuel fitting and by the time I realized what was happening I was really flaming. I stopped the boat and grabbed the 5 lb. ABC dry chemical extiguiser. As the boat stops, the water in the floor brings the burning fuel with it so now I'm standing in boiling flames. By the sheer luck of the God of boating, as the last little puff of powder came out of that puny 5 lb. extinguisher, the last flame went out. Now I'm holding an empty bottle waiting for a re-light. The 5 lb. empties so quickly you have to nail it on the first shot or you have to swim to shore and pray your insurance company got your check.
So after that experiance I have taken the "Belt and Suspenders" approach. In my 18 I installed a 10 lb. Halon with a heat sensing fusable link in he engine bay and manual switch at the helm (Halon no longer available but other oxygen depleting gas is). This will activate before you realize you even have a problem. The gas leaves no residue to clean up like chemical. Then for backup I keep a 5 lb. Halon in the cockpit. The little hand held is the minimum legal required for most of our boats, but trust me - it's not enough." - Dave

[Sofa King]

Quit right Dave, one should have a fixed halotron system in the engine compartment and a five pounder. How many cubic feet would u say the engine compartment is in the 22 classic and where would u recommend mounting it?

[Morgan's Cloud]

VERY true Dave.
Been there myself ... actually made the mistake of starting a fire on my dad's boat many years ago. Just one foot away from nearly full fuel tank and could'nt get to the extinguisher. Not too long later I snatched the hand of a friend off the ignition key of their ski boat after refueling when I checked the bilge and it had about 3 gallons of fuel in it from a just ruptured fill line.
It's a terrifying experience and you quickly learn that it's not a matter of hoping you can put the fire out ... YOU HAVE TOO !
The auto FE241 system on the Magnum is big enough for a 35 footer + there is plenty of backups. When the St T is finished I'll probably have to replace the old [B][I]HALON[B][I] extinguisher as it's way past it's use by date. I think that in the spirit and importance of your post it's also worthwhile to mention that readers should consider approaching their local fire station and asking for demonstrations on the use of hand held extinguishers.
Years ago when I worked for a major airline the US navy who ran the airport had us all over one day for training and it's very surprising how many people were scared to death of handling the extinguisher and wasted half the contents aiming in all the wrong places. When the day comes that you have to use one , you better be comfortable with it. On a boat you'll only get one chance .
Steve

[sue]

My 22' does not have a Halon system. I am planning on having one put in the engine compartment as soon as the boat yard slows down. In the mean time, I am having touble figuring out where to put everything else that is required for safety. Where does everybody keep your anchor, lifevests, flares etc & the big one is where is the best place to mount your fire extinguiser?????? Any ideas would be helpful. Thanks!
Sue

[Dr. Dan]

My 22' does not have a Halon system. I am planning on having one put in the engine compartment as soon as the boat yard slows down. In the mean time, I am having touble figuring out where to put everything else that is required for safety. Where does everybody keep your anchor, lifevests, flares etc & the big one is where is the best place to mount your fire extinguiser?????? Any ideas would be helpful. Thanks!
Sue

Suzy Q... Here is what I do, and what I have seen others do...

All of my Life Vests other than what I am wearing are kept in a Nylon Duffle Bag, this I store in front of the Footrest...to either side of the Ski Locker, The Anchor(s) I store in a Heavy Drill Cloth(think Military) or Nylon Bag, anchor Bags are Available at most supply houses,Boat US, West Marine etc., I wrap the Anchor with a few Towels...then make sure the Rode is Dried Out after each use...never had a mildew problem... I keep it in the very front of the Ski Locker...in the Center of the Bow. Behind the Anchor Bag ...I have 2 PRop Bags I have on hand in case I spin a Hub or whatever...they help to keep the Anchor in place while running too.

As far a Fire Extinguishers... I need to mount a Halon System, but most mount them on the Front Bulkhead in the Engine Compartment...with a link close to the intake or Center front space. Most people will mount the Extinguishers near the Footrest on the lower Port or Starboard area...near where Speakers are commonly mounted...there are all sorts of $100 Bling Mounts and Fancy Extinguishers to dress it up...the big thing is to mount it secure and to have access to it.

Soft Tool Bag: I keep a Tool Bag on Board for Minor items...in it is a Fire Extinguisher, One Quart of 40 Weight Racing Oil, A Breaker Bar for Changing Props, Screw Drivers, Wrenches,Flares, Compressed Air Horn, Zip Ties, Fuses,Sharp Knife for Emergencies,etc...I keep the bag within reach of my left hand...just inside the ski locker. Its heavy and doesn't bounce around.

My Fenders I keep Fender Lines on and I keep them behind my seat if I am only going a short distance before tieing up again...otherwise I stash them in front of my Feet on the opposite side Starboard area in front of the footrests...they sit upright...I drape the Fender Line into the foot rest area...when I need them I bend down there...pull the line and out pops the Fender...

Alot of thought but it all stays pretty secure..doesn't bounce around and is very accessible...funcionality and Safety have to be the key....I also keep a Throwable in the area I store the Vests, sometimes I carry a Paddle...most recently I aquired a Gas Can (to help Friends out)...it will likely go in the bow too...empty til I need to run a rescue mission like 2 weeks ago...for someone who will remain nameless.:spongebob

Of course I keep Lines, Towels and Jackets...much more accesible ...usually rolled up to either lower side of my front Cockpit seats.

On top of the Vest Bag or the Stuff in the Ski Locker I fold up my CockPit Cover...and Pole, I always keep it on the boat to protect it from a sudden cloud burst...came in handy a few times in Lake Cumberland.

Good Luck Tonto! :beer:

Anonymous :cool:

[hottub]

This has got me thinking, as I also have a mounted supressant system in the engine compartment that I odered as an option when I ordered the boat (2003 22 CLassic 496 HO) along with a handheld that I keep next to the ski locker.

My question is this, does anybody know how long the mounted systems last or are rated for before we have to have them recharged?


I'm sure there is an expiration date on it and I will check later this week.

[need for speed]

what size one does Donzi put in? looking to add that.

[John W]

I put a Fireboy system in my Hatteras, FE 241, auto system with the engine shutdown back in 1996. Being a charterboat I have my extinquishers inspected every year. All they do is weigh the cylinder and re-tag it. Still ok. I imagine that after 12 years the bottle will have to be replaced, no one fills them. I also put a fireboy system in my Donzi, I called Donzi and they said the 75ft3 bottle will be more than enough. I mounted it on the forward bulkhead with the nozzle pointed at the K&N. It goes off automatically, or is supposed to. I should have put in the Seafire system with the auto/manual release system. I hope I never have to use it. I think I will add an additional fire extinguisher to the helm area, a nice SS with the SS mounting bracket.
Good thread!!!
JW( annapolis)

[SideshowRob]

This is a great thread!
Got me thinking about a few items I need to tend to. I have a decent sized extinguisher in there now, but I'm gonna look at where I can better mount a larger one. That and some "in-boat" organizing.

[Team Jefe]

My 22' does not have a Halon system. I am planning on having one put in the engine compartment as soon as the boat yard slows down. In the mean time, I am having touble figuring out where to put everything else that is required for safety. Where does everybody keep your anchor, lifevests, flares etc & the big one is where is the best place to mount your fire extinguiser?????? Any ideas would be helpful. Thanks!
Sue

I just put the stuff in the "trunk" there is plenty of room....oh, wait...that is where y'alls motors are....Ah, yes now I see your point.

All kidding aside, The Doctor...as usual...has some good advice. Keeping a cell phone handy with you mechanic, marina, Raodtrip's, Dr. Dan's, Mad Poodle's and the HarborMaster's numbers is always good, but cell service is spotty on the Gulf, so I always carry a VHF handheld and portable GPS. Seems like over kill on lakes maybe, but my offshore expereince has made me very cautious (I have fixed units and handhelds on the Revenge). Better to have it and not need it as need it and not have it....and the costs are very minimal.

[Carl C]

Sue, here are pics of the factory installation on my boat. A big advantage of the halon system is that in the event of a fire you do NOT open the engine hatch which would only feed the fire oxygen. You get everyone out of the boat with lifejackets or throwables and let the extinguisher do it's job. After all smoke has stopped the captain can board and carefully open the hatch to check the damage, which should be minimal. I keep my anchor in a box I mounted in the engine compartment. I removed my "ski box" which doesn't even hold a ski and opened up the underbow area for a huge stowage area.(but that's another story!)

[Sofa King]

I bet after a fire the chrome engine hatch knob would be really really really hot. Y'all might wanna add an oven mit to your list of things to carry.

I'm just sayin'
Aronowrip

[thriller]

You mean the gold lifting knob that reads Donzi?:biggrin.:

I like this thread.

1st. If you have a fire or notice/smell/see smoke or flame coming from your engine hatch and you don't have an on board extinguisher , Get Out..Abandon Ship. Call, yell /flag someone.

It's natural to lift the engine hatch but this will only add fuel to the fire. Sneak a peak but don't open it wide open. If you have an extinguisher open the hatch slightly and dispense the extinguisher at the seat or base of fire then close the lid. if it's fuel burning in the bildge you will need more than the 5lber that we all carry.

With our boats having four Perko intakes/exhaust there is lots of air getting in there to fuel a fire even with the hatch closed. Ssoooo, You will most likely see smoke coming from the forward of the two intakes before you even think of lifting the hatch.

Halon although very effective as an extinguishment is very very nasty stuff. If inhaled it can cause lung cancer..Fact.. That's why new airplanes don't use it. In a closed enviroment it is nasty...

CO2 extinguishers and Dry Chemicals are my choice.

If your serious about adding to your extinguishers get your hands on a 10lb CO2 and hard mount it just ahead of your foot rest. drivers side.

Add a fixed mount system on your bulhead. $$$ but worth it.

Always boat with a portable VHS/cellphone and flares/airhorn

Safe Boating!

MM

[hottub]

Ok. Here is a real stupid question, but I have no idea. I have the same seafire system that Carl has posted a photo of on a prior post here. If it needs recharging, where would I take it to recharge it? :bonk:

Typically with the small handhelds (I like the Co2 as well, thriller) I have just replaced with a new one.

[smokediver]

My opinion is this ; if the engine room halon doesn't take care of an engine compartment fire , get out of the boat . Opening the hatch is only gonna make it worse . Most of us don't carry a big enough extinguisher to put out that kinda fire . If you need to even as much think about it ... get out of the boat and write it off . Gelcote is a lot easier to repair than skin and a lot less painful ...

[sue]

Thriller, See smoke? see flames? No extinguiser!!!! There is no way I would be looking around for some one to help me. I would grab a lifevest, waterproof handheld & get off that boat ASAP. I live on the water with a view that consists of allot of boats, yards & a GAS dock. I have seen too many boats catch on fire & over the years I have seen a few of them blow up!!!!! To see one boat blow up is enough to scare the heck out of you. It is a horrible thing to see because usually there are people still onboard the boat when it blows! Over the years, boating has changed & boats have many more options for safer boating, but it can still happen. After saying that I appreciate all of the other advice & you said it "Safe Boating!"

Dan, Thank you for all of your ideas on organizing. Having every written down to refer to is extremely helpful. As you know, this is my first Donzi & I am really having a heck of a time trying to figure out where to put everything & not have things flying out of the boat or damaging the boat from banging around.

CarlC, Thanks for the good advice & great photos.

Team Jeff, I have done most of my boating on Long Island Sound, so like you I need equippment that people that only go on lakes do not need. The cell phone service is real good almost everywhere from NY to Block Island. I still prefer having a handheld in case you need assistance from the Coast Guard & possibly other boaters that are near you. I still do not have much experience running the 22' as the weather has not been helpful. It would be nice if there was a lake some what near by (that was not packed with people) to take my Donzi.

This is a great thread to get everyone thinking about safety & lets keep it going!
Sue

[thriller]

Thanks Sue. I edited my post...

I have fire extinguishers everywhere, home/boat/truck/RV/Shop..and my family all know how to use em! I'm just not afraid of Fire as most maybe it's got something to do with my job. :wink: When people run out of burning buildings I am the one running in. Fuel, Boats, flames and fiberglass are just a bad combination period..

[Ed Donnelly]

I am not a fireman,but work on high heat gas fired process equipment.
I have a huge repect for fire. I could open my own shop with the number of fire extinguishers I have on hand.
1 on each floor of my house,including laundry room and garage.
1 Halon and 1 CO2 in the boat
1 CO2 in the back of the truck
1 in the Pantera,and 1 in the Jeep
4 in my storage shop(1 on each wall)......Ed

[thriller]

Nice going Ed..How about detectors? hardwired?

If they are batteries change them every year when you change your clocks.

Some insurance companies will give you a break on your insurance if they are hardwired and monitored?

MM

[Ed Donnelly]

thriller; CO and smoke hardwired and monitored all floors,laundry room and garage.. Donzi has a fume detector( I think allthe Criterions had them)..Ed

[John W]

Those wanting a fixed Fireboy system, try hamilton marine or defender.com. They had the best prices. Not hard to install at all.
The FE241 is a replacement for Halon, not as toxic and should kill the motor, I had to put the shutdown box on my hatteras , becuse the stuff would go right out the exhaust pipe.
JW
Happy holiday.
I am SO ready for a boat ride this weekend.

[Carl C]

Ed, you can never have too many fire extinguishers. I'm a former mechanic and we had a small fire in the shop once. It took about 5 or 6 ext. to find one that worked and all had been inspected and tagged according to law!

[TuxedoPk]

Those wanting a fixed Fireboy system, try hamilton marine or defender.com. They had the best prices.

I've bought a few items from defender.com and had really great experiences with them. I placed an order over the phone and within a few seconds of hanging up I had an email confirmation and my order which shipped ground arrived the following day. They had great product knowlege, were a pleasure to deal with, had great pricing and follow thru. Highly recommend them.