Fuse box

[LSUTIGERS74]

Does anyone know if the 90 Black Widow w/ 460 OMC had a fuse box located on it somewhere?

I can't get either engine to turnover, but I am getting voltage to the gauges.

[joel3078]

Dunno about fuses. Mine has little round circuit breakers that would pop out if any of them blew.

As far as the engine not cranking when the key is turned (but you got power to the guages) see if any of this from the past applies this time around.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?p=366413#post366413

[LSUTIGERS74]

I have the same pop out fuses on the engine that you have an all of them are still in place. I am just not convinced about the starter being bad, it is a new starter on the starboard engine and for both of them to not be working at the same time is odd. I think I shorted out a wire somewhere down the line and I will check them this afternoon. Although thanks for the link, I had forgotten I had posted that earlier. I will try MOP technique also, just to be on the safe side.

[MOP]

The assist solenoid usually goes before the starter solenoid.

Phil

[LSUTIGERS74]

Well were should I begin today's Donzi saga....

Today I finally sat down in the boat with the help of some experienced electricians and mechanics and tried to figure out why I wasn't getting anything to turnover. I checked the starter using MOP's method, I thought it didn't work, even went as far as to pull the starter (which is a pain in the ass once you have to put back on in that tight space) and test on an outside source. Thinking the starter didn't work by now I realized the starter was not grounded on the engine and the wire needed to hook to the negative terminal, Problem solved...nope.

Next we realized that both solenoids on the twin engines were burnt up b/c for some reason the battery switch power stays hot. Is this normal for OMC's? Joel, does your OMC 454 stay hot on the solenoid, as in the boat could actually crank from the run position not the start position. Both engines are wired this way. I am thinking of bypassing the first solenoid and using only the starter solenoid to crank the engine and use a relay for battery switched. Any input into this setup would be appreciative.

[MOP]

To answer one question the stater stays hot on any boat without a switch so that is not an issue!! If you do away with the assist solenoids you can burn the starter actuation wire from the switch to the solenoid it must be in the circuit, when it burns it ruins the engine harness believe me I have seen it happen. I would clean up the starters, clean the mating surface to get a good ground, then start checking again. Not to hurt any feelings but you need an experianced boat electrician/mechanic, a starter issue can be found in short order if you know what and where to check. When I say short 15-20 minutes with a decent meter!

Phil

[LSUTIGERS74]

I understand how the starter is working, you have a full time 12V going to it and a positive battery switched power going to the starter. The solenoid I am thinking about bypassing is the solenoid on the breaker box attached to the engine where the battery wire from the battery to the engine connects and the power wire from the starter connects. If I remove this and go straight from Battery positive to starter assist solenoid and then run a relay from the battery positive switched power to the ignition will this jeopardize the main harness?

I will try to get some pictures this afternoon of how the engine is setup, but Joel has the same box on his OMC 454 with the pop out breakers and a small solenoid located below them. I just find it odd that power would run to the solenoid all the time and keep it hot like that, b/c it fried my port engine solenoid already, that has been determined.

I probably do need a professional to take a look, but there has to be a simple solution.

[joel3078]

LSU, Like MOP I hate to tell ya this. It may have turned into a situation were when you bring an outside person in, they will find the problem real fast. Go with the finding a qualified sparky that is willing to do a quick job on the side for payment in beers and cheeseburgers at the local saloon. There are lots of guys out there looking to make a quick and easy buck on the side or a simple chicken trade. Oh ya, as you know by now, diagnosing electrical problems thru this website can take weeks or months.

[LSUTIGERS74]

Unfortunately the experienced electricians I spoke about have been dealing with ignition systems for a while and they are saying they have never seen anything wired up like this, where the secondary solenoid is always hot. We used the screwdriver technique last night and the engine is cranking from the run position and not the start position therefore it is burning up the secondary solenoid attached to the breaker box.

[LSUTIGERS74]

Well I decided to heed the advice of others and I went and bought two new solenoids. Going to install after work and see if the ignition system will work with the new solenoids. Hopefully!!!!!

[joel3078]

Let us know what happens. Love to do some testing for ya on mine but we have that Minnesota version of a hurricane showing up again. It spins CCW on the radar and they eye is always close to Minneapolis. Happens all the time in the spring for us. Look at www.weather.com

[LSUTIGERS74]

checked out the weather up there it does look pretty wicked.

Enjoy the rain, it hasn't been raining here lately my grass in yard is dying again. Our hurricane season starts in 7 days. Hopefully not as bad as last year, when Katrina hit I spent three weeks b/t 6 different cities, very tiring. (Our company was in the midst of a move when katrina hit, sent everything into a tail spin) Then Rita hit and I was about 40 miles from the eye at my parents house. Don't want to every experience that again.

On another note, I will give an update later on tonight once I finish re-wiring and then setting the timing on the starboard engine.

[MOP]

I re read the solenoid being hot thing again, when the switch is on or if no switch is present in the system there is power to main terminal on the assist. It stays hot just like the main post on the starter, when you turn the key to the start position the yellow/red wire supplies power to actuate that solenoid which in turn sends power to the starters solenoid. The assist has to be in the system due to the distance of the key switch from the starter, without it you would have to run a very heavy wire to carry the current. If you were to eliminate the assist the light wire in the harness would cook. Look at the assist as a relay that you remotely trigger with light current which in turn supplies the current needed to feed the starters solenoid which the key switch circuit "can not" do on its own. When you put things back together make sure all connection are bright/clean and tight not too tight the damn Bakelite likes to bust, I usually use two small wrenches on the small terminals one to hold the inner nut and one to tighten the one that secure the wire lugs. the I know it is a little messy but even if fresh water I would recommend corrosion spay on all the contacts.

Phil

[LSUTIGERS74]

Last night, I replaced both solenoids (one per engine) and the engines rolled over with ease. The port one fired off while the starboard still hadn't set the timing.

Ended up having the distrubutor in 180 degrees backwards and once that was figured out she finally fired up for the first time. What a big relief!!! Although she does kinda sound rough, I guess this is to be expected on a completely rebuilt engine. It sounds completely different than the port engine, not nearly as smooth running. I will be checking up on the oil pressure this afternoon (it sounds kinda mechanical noisy, and I broke my oil pressure sender and have to go find a new one). Hopefully she will be ready for the water by Saturday, I have a lot of cleaning to do, oil is everywhere since I replaced the engine.

Also have to do some final outdrive checks and trim tab checks.

Thanks, for all the input. Still learning an extremely amount of information

[joel3078]

Those starting solenoids remind me of old ford cars from the 70's we had in high school days. The little buggers would burn out rather often for some goofy reason. All they are is a big heavy duty relay. As I recall, you could take a screwdriver shaft and short between the heavy wire posts to get the starter motor spinning - thus hopefully firing up the ol engine. Is this what you tried before replacing your solenoids?

On that rebuilt engine, I bet it quiets down once the rocker arms on the valves are properly tightened to spec and the timing is setup right. Keep on learning and enjoy the hell out of it!

[MOP]

Luttrell the lifters may not have pumped up giving you a fair amount of clatter or it may not have picked up the oil, it is a good idea to prime the oil pump prior to starting it up. Most drive the pump down through the distributer hole with an adapter and a drill until the gauge shows good pressure, I use a simpler trick on my rebuild. I remove the oil pump cover pull slave rotor and pack the housing full of vasiline then put the rotor back in clean the gasket surfaces and replace the cover. I get instant pressure which is good especially with a new "flat tappet" cam, as the engine needs to run at about 2500 rpm 15-20 to insure oil spash onto the lobes. Many a good cam became a piece of crap from idleing the engine at intial start up. Even with a good cam break in lube this should be done, if it is an old cam and lifters and you mixed up the lifter from lobe to lobe which is not good that may help some.

Phil

[LSUTIGERS74]

Found out last night that the oil pump rod some how fell out of the oil pump (probably when setting the timing and pulling the distrubutor out so many times) I am still trying to get it out and back into the hole without having to pull the engine. Really I am not sure if it is not stripped b/c I found silver oil w/ flakes on the bottom of the distrubutor. Supposed to leave with the boat to go to Destin for the next week tomorrow morning. So it could be a very late night w/ an early test run at the river tomorrow morning then hit the road for Destin.

[LSUTIGERS74]

Well Officially at 12:30 today the engine has to come out one more time, this time I think I managed to strip the oil pump drive hex shape with the oil rod somehow. I checked it at lunch and it is just spinning in the hole and when the rod is pulled back out I find metal shavings on the drive end. It's gonna be a late night.

[MOP]

I have seen that an sheared rods, real sorry to hear you are wrenching again! If you drop the pan which you should pack the pump like I mentioned above, you will get immediate oil pressure.

Phil