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View Full Version : Mercruiser 454 Guru's, need help with diagnostic



Avialanche
05-20-2006, 07:49 PM
Need help figuring out how engine became hydrolocked.....................

I have a 1996 Donzi LXC with Carburated 300hp 454w/ Bravo III.
Engine has only 135 hours on it. Open cooling system.

Went to launch boat at local ramp, started fine......motored over to the fuel dock 15 min later, at the fuel dock i noticed the engine temp was at 200 degrees(it never goes over 170), still running normal though, never had the rpms over 1000 during the 15 min from ramp to fuel dock, so i shut it down, tried to start it 10 min later(temp at 160), would not turn over, was hydrolocked, had CG tow me back to ramp, took it home, pulled the plugs, spins over fine with water gushing out of all cylinders, dried plugs off, reinstalled em, starts and runs and idles fine, but water is not circulating even with high pressure/volume muffs, no water comes out of exhaust, ran it for 2 min, still no water..............what happened? I ran it a few weeks ago...........no probs.

MOP
05-20-2006, 08:42 PM
Can only guess that the raw water pump died, you will be busy the pump is the least of your worries. With water in the cylinders it is likely the head gaskets are leaking, lousey time of the year for this kind of stuff to happen. Pull the plugs and douse the cylinders with oil that should keep the bores Ok until you can get into it.

Phil

yeller
05-20-2006, 09:00 PM
Avialanche that sucks. MOP is probably right...pump failed. The real problem though, is where is the water getting in the engine.
MOP...water in ALL 8 cylinders...doesn't that seem odd. 1 or 2 on each bank, but I've never seen all 8 at the same time.

In any case, Avialanche, those heads have to come off. Hopefully it is just the gaskets and nothing worse.

Avialanche
05-20-2006, 09:37 PM
that doesn't make sense, if the raw pump failed, then how did the water get up to the engine? when i shut it down, i checked exterior surface of engine, it was no were near hot enough to blow both head gaskets, how come it runs fine now? still idles at 800-900 rpms just like before, what about intake manifold water ports, what if exhaust manifold internal divider is rusted through(can it rust through just after ten years and 135 hours?), can water enter through cylinders that way? i guess water got to both sides of engine via the intake manifold exhaust crossover right?

Note the boat sits pretty high in water(shallow V bottom), cylinder heads sit above waterline i'm pretty sure. It's never been in salt water either.

MOP
05-20-2006, 09:44 PM
All 8 is rare both head gasket would have to go simultaneously, I have seen a couple of EFI manifolds rot through and wet both banks on forward end. Have the heads checked for warpage.

Phil

MOP
05-20-2006, 09:54 PM
It is strange, by chance did it diesel backwards when you shut it down? I have seen engine do that ans suck water up through the Y pipe and hydro lock them.

Phil

Avialanche
05-20-2006, 09:55 PM
will probably do a compression check before i pull the heads.

Avialanche
05-20-2006, 10:05 PM
It is strange, by chance did it diesel backwards when you shut it down? I have seen engine do that ans suck water up through the Y pipe and hydro lock them.
Phil

No it did not diesel.

mrfixxall
05-21-2006, 12:05 AM
sounds like the water pump failed and could have burned the inner flappers on your tips and water could be getting in your engine that way or your exhaust manifolde could have cracked internally from overheating ???

Avialanche
05-21-2006, 12:24 AM
Is there a central anti backwash valve/flapper in the exhaust system after the risers?

Avialanche
05-21-2006, 12:39 AM
sounds like the water pump failed and could have burned the inner flappers on your tips and water could be getting in your engine that way or your exhaust manifolde could have cracked internally from overheating ???

This makes more sense as well...............what are the tips? i don't have through transom exhaust, the exit is just below U-joint bellow, there is no exhaust bellow..................there's an inner/outer sleeve setup(not an airtight seal), wish it did have exhaust bellow.........it would keep the fumes from pilling up in rear lounge seating area when cruising between 10-15mph.

Chili 18
05-21-2006, 02:27 AM
Any water in the oil?

Avialanche
05-21-2006, 08:54 AM
Any water in the oil? It's not milky now, i tried to pump some out w/electric pump,(just in case the water is sitting at bottom of pan, really haven't ran engine enough to mix the oil & water together thoroughly if there is water) couldn't get pump to work, only used it once since new,(another chinese made POS product:bawling: )and now it won't pump inspite of being primed. the oil level is about two quarts to0 high though(which led to the suspicion that water is sitting in bottom of pan).

Avialanche
05-21-2006, 09:58 AM
Ran it alittle more this morn with hose from raw pump disconnected, no flow at idle, little flow at 1500 rpms, so raw water pump is the instigator of all the problems, now i'm gonna do a compression check to see if both heads need to be pulled, and if i do have to do that..............any reccomendations on type of head gasket to use? composite, steel, copper, etc, would prefer to keep gasket as thin as possible to keep compression ratio as high as possible.

Avialanche
05-21-2006, 10:00 AM
Any water in the oil?

Yep it's milky after a few 10 second runs.

Avialanche
05-21-2006, 10:42 AM
Compression readings are:

#1 135, #3 135, #5 135, #7 130 passenger side(still don't know my marine terminology port/starboard, dumb on my part since i work on aircraft as well, lol), ok back to original subject.............
#2 135, #4 130, #6 130, #8 130 Drivers side...............on the last three cyl 4,6,8, plugs came out again slightly wet, residual moisture in cyl? could these cyl be 5psi lower just because they have been washed free of oil because of water earlier?

Each cyl got three compression strokes during the comp test. engine was slighly warm, 110 degrees approx.

According to Clymer manual, compression is sopposed to be 150 psi.(New engine spec or fully warmed up spec).

mrfixxall
05-21-2006, 11:04 AM
Compression readings are:
#1 135, #3 135, #5 135, #7 130 passenger side(still don't know my marine terminology port/starboard, dumb on my part since i work on aircraft as well, lol), ok back to original subject.............
#2 135, #4 130, #6 130, #8 130 Drivers side...............on the last three cyl 4,6,8, plugs came out again slightly wet, residual moisture in cyl? could these cyl be 5lbs lower just because they have been washed free of oil because of water earlier?
Each cyl got three compression strokes during the comp test. engine was slighly warm, 110 degrees approx.

You should be doing a compression check with the carb at wot and the ignition module unpluged..they sound close to normal readings and most cylinders will vary in compression....felpro marine gasgets is what you wana use if thats the problem and also make sure your toungue of the trailer is cranked up all the way because the water can run in the cylinders after you shut the engine off and the hose is still running..I would do a cylinder leak down test to see if any of the cylinders are leaking into the cooling system before you pull the heads....

Avialanche
05-21-2006, 11:38 AM
You should be doing a compression check with the carb at wot and the ignition module unpluged..they sound close to normal readings and most cylinders will vary in compression....felpro marine gasgets is what you wana use if thats the problem and also make sure your toungue of the trailer is cranked up all the way because the water can run in the cylinders after you shut the engine off and the hose is still running..I would do a cylinder leak down test to see if any of the cylinders are leaking into the cooling system before you pull the heads....

Carb was open, didn't disconnect ign module though, don't have leak-down tester. all the plugs were pulled out at same time for comp check. Ok, gotchya on the Felpro Gasket..........my favorite brand............really hope i don't have to pull heads.

Avialanche
05-21-2006, 01:11 PM
Ok, pulled raw water pump, vanes are shredded, not one piece left on vane hub.

MOP
05-21-2006, 03:09 PM
Ok now you know the root cause on to the rest of the mystery, overheats are a pain. If you have either or both power steering/oli cooler after the pump make sure you atleast back flush them to make sure they don't have bits of the imepller in them. Get the pump fixed then there is an easy test to see if compression is leaking into the cooling curcuit, replace both hoses that feed the exhaust fire it up and goose the throttle if the gasket are leaking air will normaly be in the water going through the hoses. This is best done in the water not on a flusette, on a hose you will suck some air in.

Phil

MOP
05-21-2006, 03:12 PM
Added note I have seen impeller pieces stuck in the risers, most recently on Tony's boat up at 1K last year when we pulled his leaky risers believe me that junk travels.

Phil

Avialanche
05-21-2006, 07:36 PM
OK, Got new impeller kit, included new one piece housing w o-ring seal, impeller, new bolts & wear plate, instead of two piece housing & gaskets. Cost was 103 bucks..............:(

Avialanche
05-21-2006, 07:49 PM
sounds like the water pump failed and could have burned the inner flappers on your tips.

Your're right about the flappers, parts salesmen/old timer mechanic said the same thing, showed me the pics of the their locations(gonna be lots of fun to get to):eek!:.

Avialanche
05-21-2006, 07:51 PM
Added note I have seen impeller pieces stuck in the risers, most recently on Tony's boat up at 1K last year when we pulled his leaky risers believe me that junk travels.

Phil

90% of the pieces were still trapped within the pump ports, hope the back flush will get the rest of the pieces out.

MOP
05-21-2006, 08:17 PM
Will wait for your report of how much water gets pumped where!

mrfixxall
05-21-2006, 09:25 PM
Your're right about the flappers, parts salesmen/old timer mechanic said the same thing, showed me the pics of the their locations(gonna be lots of fun to get to):eek!:.

this is how to check the flappers in the y pipe.....also check the exhaust belows for holes,when you run out of water the exhaust will burn them..now back to checking the flappers,you have to remove the exhaust riese (not the manifolds) and the exhaust bellows... when their removed look into the y pipe and you will see a ovalshaped thingy,tkae a pair of needle nose plyers and grab the flapper and look to the oudsite of y pipe and you will see a pin that goes through the center of the flapper pull the pin out now you can remove the flappet....note which way the flapper goes because if you install them backwards they will stay open....the pin is off centered so they stay closed whyle the the boat is docked and keeps the water fron rushing up the y pipe and drowning out the cylinders whth water........

also make sure you drain the exhaust manifolds before you remove anything to keep the water from ging into the exhaust valves...whyle you have it apart inspect the inside of the manifolds for cracks.....it also kinda sounds like the engine or part of the cooling system may have froze and could have caused the water and the oil to mix...

Avialanche
05-21-2006, 09:32 PM
Will wait for your report of how much water gets pumped where!

Will keep ya all informed................in the meatime....................i thank ya all for your informative inputs.......................Avia.

mrfixxall
05-21-2006, 09:37 PM
OK, Got new impeller kit, included new one piece housing w o-ring seal, impeller, new bolts & wear plate, instead of two piece housing & gaskets. Cost was 103 bucks..............:(

make sure you lube the impeller wit a timy bit of liquid soap to keep the impeller from scoarching at start up..

Avialanche
05-21-2006, 10:06 PM
this is how to check the flappers in the y pipe.....also check the exhaust belows for holes,when you run out of water the exhaust will burn them..now back to checking the flappers,you have to remove the exhaust riese (not the manifolds) and the exhaust bellows... when their removed look into the y pipe and you will see a ovalshaped thingy,tkae a pair of needle nose plyers and grab the flapper and look to the oudsite of y pipe and you will see a pin that goes through the center of the flapper pull the pin out now you can remove the flappet....note which way the flapper goes because if you install them backwards they will stay open....the pin is off centered so they stay closed whyle the the boat is docked and keeps the water fron rushing up the y pipe and drowning out the cylinders whth water........
also make sure you drain the exhaust manifolds before you remove anything to keep the water from ging into the exhaust valves...whyle you have it apart inspect the inside of the manifolds for cracks.....it also kinda sounds like the engine or part of the cooling system may have froze and could have caused the water and the oil to mix...


That's the worst case scenerio(damage from freeze), thats one of the things that explains what happened to pump vanes(because front of boat is lower than rear when parked in driveway), so pump couldn't drain completely when manifold & block drains were opened. Say the block was cracked, where do they crack usually? On the other hand, the water that was in cylinders & Exhaust manifolds had about 2 1/2 - 3 hours to get past the rings into crankcase, not to mention the attemps to crank it over forced water past the rings as well................so i'm not convinced the block is cracked yet...................and the one night that's in question when the freeze took place was about 30-31 degrees that night..................so it wasn't a deep hard freeze, yet the drains were opened.

Avialanche
05-21-2006, 10:09 PM
make sure you lube the impeller wit a timy bit of liquid soap to keep the impeller from scoarching at start up..


I used PAM.............:biggrin:

MOP
05-21-2006, 10:34 PM
You have to drain the pump in the fall, most have a 1/8" pipe plug at the bottom. Good thing you are in fresh water, I would have yanked the heads by now.

Phil

Avialanche
05-21-2006, 11:05 PM
You have to drain the pump in the fall, most have a 1/8" pipe plug at the bottom. Good thing you are in fresh water, I would have yanked the heads by now.
Phil Pump housing is plastic, no plugs, fuel pump is attached/driven off of water pump as well, it has a drain/fill plug, but i'm pretty sure that's for lube oil within the fuel pump drive housing.

Also, when hoses are hooked up to rear of water pump, they go downhill from pump.

This water pump & impeller was 10yrs old, that could be another reason why it failed, there were dry-rot cracks at base of impeller vanes.
When i brought this boat last summer, there was only 54 hours on it.

Donzigo
05-22-2006, 07:45 AM
I've been following the thread. All good advice, & I've been there, done that with this type of problem many times. I bought an extra water pump kit and keep it on the boat. Never a good thing to get caught with oe that breaks out at sea. Each time, mine has broken, it's been on start up; but, one never knows. I put vasaline all over the impeller..PAM, good choice, thanks for the tip.

My guess is that you are going to end up removing this engine eventually, and disassembling it. My suggestion is remove the exhaust manifolds, water pump, starte, install new hoses, rebuild carb, altenator, etc. etc. if you are going to just do boating close to the shore or ramp, no sweat; but, if you are going to rely on the boat to go more than 10 miles and get you home again, you might want to go through the engine and "own it" your way. it should be fairly easy to get out the the LXC, if the rear floor is removable. It shold only take a few hours to take it out. Not trying to give you work; but, you seem interested in having a seaworthy vessel and this would make it so for years to come. Just a thought.

mrfixxall
05-22-2006, 11:16 AM
That's the worst case scenerio(damage from freeze), thats one of the things that explains what happened to pump vanes(because front of boat is lower than rear when parked in driveway), so pump couldn't drain completely when manifold & block drains were opened. Say the block was cracked, where do they crack usually? On the other hand, the water that was in cylinders & Exhaust manifolds had about 2 1/2 - 3 hours to get past the rings into crankcase, not to mention the attemps to crank it over forced water past the rings as well................so i'm not convinced the block is cracked yet...................and the one night that's in question when the freeze took place was about 30-31 degrees that night..................so it wasn't a deep hard freeze, yet the drains were opened.

bb chevys have a much stronger blocks then sbc,,,a bb will usually pop the freeze plugs out but they will crack just below the cylinder head deck line in the liftr valley under the intake....now the heade are a differant story,,they will crack just about anyware....Heres another way i check for cooling system leaks in a boat engine.....first remove the hose that goes from the sea pump and attach a garden hose to it (how ever you choose to) then clamp off the hoses going to the risers and turn on the hose and let it build pressure then shut it off and wait and keep checking the dip stick to see if the oil level rises if it does then you may have a internal crack,,if not it may be the exhaust manifolds that are the problem......

Avialanche
05-23-2006, 12:26 AM
Good news,

Took it out on Michigan today after checking for good coolant flow, and several shut downs & wait a few minutes & restarts several times in the drive way and at marina, no probs, also checked oil...no water, went out on lake for five mile lap at 31 mph 3100 rpms, warmed up to 140, oil pressure stayed at max most of the time(lake is still pretty cold water temp in upper 40's), 40 psi at 900 rpms after the little trip around the lake, made sure i did slow decels because of unknown condition of flappers, got back to marina, did another shutdown, checked oil, & another 5 min wait n start.....no probs.

I'm relieved the engine itself is ok sofar, looks like my problems were the water pump failure and as a result the flappers burned possibly or it dieseled and i didn't notice it.

Next i'll inspect the flappers,(did back up few times, no probs) but i'm gonna inspect them anyways.

Gonna change the oil again as well, BTW i tried three different pumps for changing the oil from west marine.....................took every one of them back...........none of them pumped out more than 8oz before failing ...............i'd rather not post what the last resort was, :banghead:.

Ranman
05-23-2006, 08:08 AM
Gonna change the oil again as well, BTW i tried three different pumps for changing the oil from west marine.....................took every one of them back...........none of them pumped out more than 8oz before failing ...............i'd rather not post what the last resort was, .
__________________

There should be garden hose threads on the dipstick end. YOu buy a hand pump from Mercury and voila! You use the entire ID of the dipstick tube as a straw to get the oil out with no problems. You will never get that last 1/2 quart out, but if you change the oil often, it's of no concern.

I'm guessing that you pulled the drain plug and let the oil drain into the bilge...

Avialanche
05-23-2006, 08:42 AM
There should be garden hose threads on the dipstick end. YOu buy a hand pump from Mercury and voila! You use the entire ID of the dipstick tube as a straw to get the oil out with no problems. You will never get that last 1/2 quart out, but if you change the oil often, it's of no concern.
I'm guessing that you pulled the drain plug and let the oil drain into the bilge...

Never noticed the threads on dipstick, gonna check that, never thought dipstick tube goes to bottom of pan, but did notice that when i check dipstick with or without wiping it first i get same reading.............duh...that should've clicked in my head....i'm gonna put a oil drain hose w/cap on bottom of oil pan like the other boats that i've had......... the one that you pull drain hose through transom drain, nice clean simple setup, gets every drop out and you don't have to manually pump for a 1/2 hour.

Jacked up front of trailer, opened transom drain, so bilge mess was minimal, besides it was already filthy, gonna clean it after i'm done with risers & flappers and another oil change & install the Drain Hose(gotta find one somwhere).........

Ed Donnelly
05-23-2006, 09:13 AM
Oil drain hose;
C.P.Performance,Victory Marine,Lakeside Restorations...........Ed

Walt. H.
05-23-2006, 10:02 AM
Avialanche,

I too have been following this post and i'm glad for you that you got away lucky regarding your concern's about having a "cracked block".
I remembered when you purchased this boat, I too was looking at the exact same model in my area when you bought yours.

Anyway to avoid that possibility of this happening again this winter do not just drain the cooling system but run antifreeze through it. Antifreeze is also a lubricant so you won't have to worry about the pump impeller from sticking to the housing wall and tearing apart during the first start-up, and antifreeze prevents rust scales from forming and flaking that can cause other cooling blockage problems as an empty cooling system drys out.

Those oil drain hoses are great aid but it won't pass thru the type of transom drain plug hole you have on your boat. Your boat has a tapered thread pipe plug drain plug I believe, and those oil hose's will only pass thru the other style transom drains that uses a 1" expansion rubber drain plug thru hull fitting.

All the best to you for a trouble free boating season,

Walt :beer:

Walt. H.
05-23-2006, 12:01 PM
James,

OK good to know that there is a drain hose attachment with a smaller mini diameter available, I didn't know that.
My own brother could use that smaller kit on his boat due to the same type threaded drain plug.
Who has it available and if possible at your convenience a P/N would be helpful, thanks.

Obviously my bad info was based on a drain hose that had a larger O.D. and cap nut that would not pass thru the threaded pipe plug opening.
The banjo bolt and hose assy I had in mind uses a 5/16th or 3/8th I.D hose making the O.D much larger then the I.D of the thru hull fitting.

Sorry I don't have access to my parts book @ this time to confirm the above hose dia.
The only marine supplier I know of that sold this type oil pan drain hose kit for various engine makes and models via catalog or walk in store is "Freeport Marine" located out on Long Island, NY. but they never listed a small hose dia kit.

CHACHI
05-23-2006, 12:20 PM
Mercrusier also makes a drain hose to pass thru the pipe thread transom drains. They have them with different thread pitches for different applictions. All you need is a good parts guy who can look up the info. What makes this set up real nice is that the drain hose is connected to the transom drain plug via a small wire cable, when you pull the drain plug out of the transom, you can then pull the drain hose out. No more crawling in the bilge to feed the hose thru. I had all the part numbers but I do not know where I placed them. Ken

CHACHI
05-23-2006, 12:22 PM
Mercrusier also makes a drain hose to pass thru the pipe thread transom drains. They have them with different thread pitches for different applictions. All you need is a good parts guy who can look up the info. What makes this set up real nice is that the drain hose is connected to the transom drain plug via a small wire cable, when you pull the drain plug out of the transom, you can then pull the drain hose out. No more crawling in the bilge to feed the hose thru. I had all the part numbers but I do not know where I placed them. Ken.................different thread pitches for the oil pan threads. Sorry. Ken

mrfixxall
05-23-2006, 12:28 PM
Good news,
Took it out on Michigan today after checking for good coolant flow, and several shut downs & wait a few minutes & restarts several times in the drive way and at marina, no probs, also checked oil...no water, went out on lake for five mile lap at 31 mph 3100 rpms, warmed up to 140, oil pressure stayed at max most of the time(lake is still pretty cold water temp in upper 40's), 40 psi at 900 rpms after the little trip around the lake, made sure i did slow decels because of unknown condition of flappers, got back to marina, did another shutdown, checked oil, & another 5 min wait n start.....no probs.
I'm relieved the engine itself is ok sofar, looks like my problems were the water pump failure and as a result the flappers burned possibly or it dieseled and i didn't notice it.
Next i'll inspect the flappers,(did back up few times, no probs) but i'm gonna inspect them anyways.
Gonna change the oil again as well, BTW i tried three different pumps for changing the oil from west marine.....................took every one of them back...........none of them pumped out more than 8oz before failing ...............i'd rather not post what the last resort was, :banghead:.


You should always start the enging to warm up the oil so it make it easier to suck out.... here a link to the one i use but its a bit pricy..

http://www.ntxtools.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=VAC-15-1071&Category_Code=

Avialanche
05-23-2006, 05:03 PM
Oil drain hose;
C.P.Performance,Victory Marine,Lakeside Restorations...........Ed

Thanks for info

Avia

Avialanche
05-23-2006, 05:07 PM
Avialanche,
I too have been following this post and i'm glad for you that you got away lucky regarding your concern's about having a "cracked block".
I remembered when you purchased this boat, I too was looking at the exact same model in my area when you bought yours.
Anyway to avoid that possibility of this happening again this winter do not just drain the cooling system but run antifreeze through it. Antifreeze is also a lubricant so you won't have to worry about the pump impeller from sticking to the housing wall and tearing apart during the first start-up, and antifreeze prevents rust scales from forming and flaking that can cause other cooling blockage problems as an empty cooling system drys out.
Those oil drain hoses are great aid but it won't pass thru the type of transom drain plug hole you have on your boat. Your boat has a tapered thread pipe plug drain plug I believe, and those oil hose's will only pass thru the other style transom drains that uses a 1" expansion rubber drain plug thru hull fitting.
All the best to you for a trouble free boating season,
Walt :beer:
Walt,

Yeah i remember ya from last year...............what did you end up buyin?

Will definetly use antifreeze next winter...............Thanks for the info.

Avia

Avialanche
05-23-2006, 05:12 PM
You should always start the enging to warm up the oil so it make it easier to suck out.... here a link to the one i use but its a bit pricy..
http://www.ntxtools.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=VAC-15-1071&Category_Code=

I did warm it up alittle...........i didn't want to run it too much with 1-2 qts of water that was in the oil, it wasn't gritty yet.......but still........................
Thanks again for your help/input.

Avia

Avialanche
05-23-2006, 05:32 PM
Mercrusier also makes a drain hose to pass thru the pipe thread transom drains. They have them with different thread pitches for different applictions. All you need is a good parts guy who can look up the info. What makes this set up real nice is that the drain hose is connected to the transom drain plug via a small wire cable, when you pull the drain plug out of the transom, you can then pull the drain hose out. No more crawling in the bilge to feed the hose thru. I had all the part numbers but I do not know where I placed them. Ken

This sounds like a cool setup........................thanks for the info.............. would you post part # if you find it?.

Avia

MOP
05-23-2006, 08:32 PM
I used the Fram hose drain kit, very nice item found it at our local speed shop for $15. It has a 5/8" hose that fits through my tapered drain. You do need to know if you have SAE or Metric thread in the pan before you buy, yours being a 96 it may be metric.

CHACHI
05-24-2006, 06:12 AM
This sounds like a cool setup........................thanks for the info.............. would you post part # if you find it?.
AviaI may have the numbers up at my camp, I will check this weekend. Ken

Avialanche
05-24-2006, 07:06 AM
I used the Fram hose drain kit, very nice item found it at our local speed shop for $15. It has a 5/8" hose that fits through my tapered drain. You do need to know if you have SAE or Metric thread in the pan before you buy, yours being a 96 it may be metric.

I'll take a look at this one too.

Avialanche
05-24-2006, 08:55 AM
Ok,
I pulled the riser, flappers look good to me if that's the way they're supposed to be, and i'm really pleased with the lack of corrosion on riser to manifold mating surfaces, inside the manifold itself and Y pipe. :smile: ..........the job was easier then i expected and it took less than 45 min to remove and reinstall both of em, didn't even need new gaskets. here are pics.

Avialanche
05-27-2006, 09:36 PM
I may have the numbers up at my camp, I will check this weekend. Ken

MINXGY

No need to look up part#, found out the cost locally and it was a sticker shock price of 69.95 according to the Merc Marine website.

Avialanche
05-27-2006, 09:44 PM
Ran the boat yesterday for three hours.......runs like nothing ever happened.:cool!: