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View Full Version : Oxidation...not a job for the faint-hearted!



Tony
05-10-2006, 07:38 PM
My stripe was pink, with the transom and hull sides transitionally less than pink but still pretty bad. I was not prepared for how much of a pain in the ass this job is! Wouldn't painting the stripe and hullsides be a wise and long-lasting alternative? What preparation of the gel does painting require? About how much would this cost?

After working on the transom first, I discovered through error that the most important step is the first one...in my case 600 grit wet-sanding. I was too anxious and did not sand the transom near enough, plus with the outdrive, tips, and tabs there was a lot to work around. It turned out splotchy and will have to be redone.

With the hatch on horses and me able to really lean into it, I wet-sanded the **** out of it with 600 to retrieve the red, then followed up with 800, 1000, 1200, and 1500. Change paper often, a 1/4 sheet will only last about 2 feet on the stripe! After that I used 3M Super Duty with my Makita at about 800 rpm's. I did the deck stripe the same way and I must say it is finally looking good. Next will be 3M Finesse-It, then a wax...what type is yet to be determined.

The hull sides are a whole different story, because it is much more difficult to get good leverage into the sanding task. I will probably not get these done before AOTH. I am tempted to hire a "sanding boy" as I just about wore myself out and still did not achieve satisfactory results!

For those that think just buffing is enough for medium oxidation it is not. It temporarily looks good because of the oils in the product, but will soon chaulk up. For those that worry about sanding too much, or sanding thru an edge or corner...do not worry. This is very hard **** and, on our Donzis anyway, it is plenty thick.

I haven't even splashed the boat or started the engine yet. With coaching tennis and Mother's Day coming up, I will be lucky to be ready before AOTH. Plus, I have had pnumonia. My shoulders and arms are so sore from sanding that I was barely able to take pics!

Alright, I'm done whining...ready or not, Kentucky here we come!

Oh, by the way, do not buy the black sanding in the middle picture, it is for wussies or lighter jobs. Buy the heavy duty 3M one on the left.

:beer:

LSUTIGERS74
05-10-2006, 08:59 PM
You wouldn't happen to have pictures before all the wet sanding, I would like to see what condition yours was in before. On Saturday I plan to aquabuff 1000 the white on my donzi black widow and it has pretty heavy oxidation on the white. Wondering if I just need to go ahead and wet sand.

gcarter
05-10-2006, 09:10 PM
Paint is great (that is, really good high end automotive paint). It virtually eliminates any maintenance.

farmer tx
05-10-2006, 10:00 PM
I have done two in the last 10 months. The blue one took 135 hrs. of wet sanding buffing and polishing. The red one took about 1/3 the time as it was not as oxidized. Once you get to 1000 grit I quit using a sanding block and used a 1/2 sheet folded with the palm of my hand. 3M heavy duty marine compound, 3M perfect it III # 99033?, then 3M machine glaze, Two coats of McGuires marine wax. The last picture was before I washed it I will look for the right one.

Kikwear
05-11-2006, 12:36 AM
Are you going to replace the black tape? I think it looks pretty hot without it. As for sanding...I have an electric sander. Should I use that or go the hand route? How do you know when you've sanded enough? My whole boat looks like crap after sitting outside with no cover for a year or two. It's time to bring the luster back from the dead.

What exactly is oxidation? Just built up crap?

farmer tx
05-11-2006, 02:09 AM
For lack of anything else to call it, it's dead gelcoat. The reason I didn't use power was for the reason of burning through the gel. I had an air power wet sanding file but felt it was faster by hand, besides there are not that many flat surfaces. After the first 2-3 days your arms and shoulders quit hurting.

Just Say N20
05-11-2006, 08:27 AM
The concern that I encountered (not to rain on anyone's parade), was that after all the wet sanding, and buffing, and polishing, and then waxing (three coats), the boat looked AWESOME. . . . . for about 3 weeks. It then seemed to start an accelerated reversion back to the "velvet" look. Very dissappointing. :bawling: :bawling:

If others have gone through this process, and had better "post process durability" (it stayed glisteningly shiney for more than 3 weeks), I'm thinking I must have used a wax that wasn't up to the task of adequately protecting the rejuvenated gel.

What has worked?

Tony
05-11-2006, 08:29 AM
farmertx, clever idea to twist the boat on the trailer...how is that accomplished? Also, is Finesse-It a little coarser than Perfect-It, which in turn is a little coarser than Machine Glaze? Are we splitting hairs here...in other words can I use Finesse-It as my final step before waxing?

Yes, I do plan on replacing the black pinstripe, I think it is a nice contrasting look. In fact, I'm switching to 3/8" pinstripe instead of the 1/4" that I removed. If I don't like it I will go back to the original size.

You know when you've sanded enough when your color returns to the original color. In my case the color below the pinstripe, and beneath the DONZI decals, was vividly redder than the oxidized pink! If you have a splotchy result you have not sanded enough, and have not sanded evenly. Take a guess how I know this!


:beer:

CHACHI
05-11-2006, 11:25 AM
Tony, the boat is looking fine. Ken

turbo2256
05-11-2006, 01:46 PM
One I was working on some of it was almost white were the black is.

mrfixxall
05-11-2006, 01:49 PM
I have done the same with a jitter bug air sander and a spray bottle with soapy water in it and it took 1/4 of the time...

LSUTIGERS74
05-11-2006, 03:31 PM
After thinking about it for a while, let me ask the experts this question:

Is it possible that my gelcoat is not oxidized but rather has just been peeled off? The reason I am asking is b/c on the port side deck there is still one glossy patch about 6" wide 30" long in a rectangular section, and then the rest of the white deck appears oxidized. Or is this just the paint beneathe the gel coat and that is why it appears faded. Although the red stripe is in excellent condition.

farmer tx
05-11-2006, 10:58 PM
Tony, I pick up the rear of the boat with a chain hoist, and the front with a forklift. When you have it lifted use a lever to move the trailer over so the keel is over the outer bunk. Let the rear down on the bunk and then the front slowly. When the boat begins to ballance on the bunk push the hull in the direction you want it to tip. I use a chunk of packing styrofoam the cushion the down hill side between the bunk and hull. The Perfect it III was recomended by people on this site.

Tigers, Do you have any pix of your gel issues?

Moody Blu'
05-11-2006, 11:16 PM
you could do the same thing if you have a boat ramp near by just set the boat up and then pull it out?

MOP
05-12-2006, 11:30 AM
Daw Gone I always wondered why so many haul their boats out on a 45 degree angle, damn going to wax em up!

LSUTIGERS74
05-15-2006, 02:51 PM
Well I guess I answered my own question about oxidation. I finally got around to buffing the boat, and in six hours of manual labor I was able to completely buff out the oxidation on the starboard bow of the boat. It took aquabuff 1000, then aquabuff 2000, then P21S Paintwork Cleanser. I ran out of time for the day to do the other side b/c it got freaking hot outside and the 1000 was drying up quicker than I could buff out. I will definitely have to go back with the Meguire's wax to seal the bow back up once I have finished.

Originally I planned to take some photos but my fiance' had control of the camera for the day and wouldn't let me use it b/c it had pictures of here in the wedding dress and she was afraid I was going to peak. What a load of crock!!!

Pismo
05-15-2006, 03:44 PM
Back to the original premise. There must be a better method than being a slave to Gelcoat, the stuff is terrible to maintain. It is used because it has thickness and therefore doesn't show scratches/minor damage. Even if you do a perfect job, wax will protect it for a few weeks then it will start to chaulk up again. Solutions I have read but not tried include 1) Sand/buff etc. until perfect then clear coat it with Imron clearcoat, claims to last 10yrs?, blocks any oxygen from getting to the gelcoat so no oxidation. 2) Forget the buffing etc and paint it with Imron the same color so little to no maintenance and scratches/damage still won't show. I like choice 2). Will try someday when it gets bad enough. Formula factory Imrons all their boats now. 20yr old Imron looks great where as we all know what 20 yr old gel looks like. Paint is the answer one way or another and since it will last it is worth paying up for.

Tony
05-15-2006, 07:08 PM
Pismo, I'm tending to agree with you...although I have not owned a gel boat except for the last three weeks! My Ski Sporter was painted and it looks like a million bucks 12 years after the paint job. The only thing I ever did with it was to keep it clean and waxed, with a UV product since it is an all red boat.

My question is...what kind of prep is necessary to Imrom the red only?
If you are painting, it seems to me that painting with red makes better sense than restoring the gel and clearcoating.

gcarter
05-15-2006, 08:23 PM
I know that Imron is a great product and gives excellent results.
It's particularly popular on yachts and up market aircraft that are exposed to the elements all the time.
Much of the high end automotive paint will do the same thing. Do you see many MB's, BMW's, Rollers, or heck, even Cadillacs less than 15 years old with faded paint?
Some of the better attributes of automotive paint is it's more gorgiving and easier to apply than some other finishes.
Also you can blend automotive paint in repair jobs (this is something I'm still learning to do, but it's pretty easy), you can do completely invisible repairs.

sweet 16 1966
05-15-2006, 08:44 PM
I used a polyurathane on the bottom and it did not hold up. I am looking into using an awlgrip paint possible on the bottom when time permits. Grorge just gelled the bottom of his Minx and it looks awesome. I kind of believe the gel on the bottom may give better results from rollers and bunks. Open to advise though . This will be my third bottom job since owning the boat.
Would like do it once and for all!

sweet 16 1966
05-15-2006, 08:46 PM
BTW, I also had Imron- very expensive but looked great. Also did not hold up.
Anyone want to comment on painting over gel or fiberglass preperation? I know it can make a tremendious difference if not properly prepaired.

Pismo
05-16-2006, 09:13 AM
Yes, I am not locked into the Imron product specifically, any paint that will work I am happy to use, automotive or whatever. Gel is thicker and stronger and better on bottoms I would think. I would think paint would come right off a bottom from the trailer/water/rocks/etc abuse. Now I need an old boat to practice on and learn to do this myself.