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DonziJon
05-09-2006, 06:55 PM
OK: I just want to refresh my memory..and maybe some of you people just getting started in motorcycles.

Harley started out with the "Flathead", then went to the "Knucklehead", and then to the "Panhead", and then to the "Shovelhead", and then to the "Nailhead", and then to the "Conehead". Oh Wait: The "Nailhead" was a Buick. Am I missing one here??? John :confused:

BUIZILLA
05-09-2006, 07:05 PM
I think Poodle owns a Hardhead model...

:cistineb:

gcarter
05-09-2006, 08:44 PM
But the very first ones were F heads!!!
And what year did the first two cam engine appear?
What year did the eight valve engine appear and how many were built?

Cuda
05-09-2006, 10:12 PM
Evo motors.
Revo motors.

Ed Donnelly
05-09-2006, 10:13 PM
First twin cam 1928
8 valves.....????

What year was the first water cooled used???.......Ed

SideshowRob
05-09-2006, 10:23 PM
Ahem... I believe the correct order is...
1. Built with a sledge head.
2. bent crank for sound head.
3. Got help from Yamaha head.
I'm sorry guys, I used to like Harleys, but, from a performance standpoint, they are lacking, seriously. I suppose it is akin to comparing American car engines to Italian, but still.
Now I know I'm starting something here, but... Can someone tell why they/you would choose a Harley over a Yamaha Warrior, or a Honda VTX 1800? Sooo much more power, better handling, better brakes, and half price???
Now before you pummell me with your keyboards, keep this in mind. Fall of 2004 myself, girlfriend and 3 very good friends went to Phoenix to spend Canadian Thanksgiving with our friends in Scottsdale. Me and my buddy rented Harleys and cruised about 450-500 miles though the desert, now aside from a one off chopper, I can't imagine doing those miles on anything else. something cowboyish about the whole desert thing.... But from a monetary point of view, The Harley lifestyle is just waaaay overpriced, with no real performance to back it up. Am I right? Please enlighten me.

Ed Donnelly
05-09-2006, 10:43 PM
Sideshow; In a nutshell...Name and history
The same as Donzi. You can buy a hell of a lot cheaper 18 or 22 non Donzi
and you get a boat that will do everything a Donzi can do.So why buy the Donzi?? Name and History.
Being a fellow Canadian,you know a 22 is around 80 large with taxes.
but does it sound the same saying you have a new 22 purchased for 40 large that is a C***alt, B***iner??.....Ed

SideshowRob
05-09-2006, 11:11 PM
Well put Ed. To that, I can relate..... My pennies are still saving for a V- Max though.

gcarter
05-10-2006, 05:24 AM
First twin cam 1928
8 valves.....????
What year was the first water cooled used???.......Ed
Good morning Ed.
The very first twin cam was 1913.
The first eight valve racing engine was 1916 and they built about six.
I actually saw one of these bikes at the Amelia Island Concours D'elegance.
Did Harley ever build anything that looked like a BMW boxer?
And if they did, about what period of time was it?

Liquid cooled? Hmmm.....
I really don't know much history of these bikes post WWII.
I have never cared for Harleys after this period. I think up to that point they were about equal in engineering to most anything. Today it's all about nostalgia. How many times can they re-invent themselves? The only truly modern bike they offer is the V-Rod and I'm not sure of its popularity.
By the way Ed, is the answer the Porsche designed racing series of engines that eventually became the V-Rod?

joel3078
05-10-2006, 09:20 AM
Here is the engine history:
http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/Content/Pages/Engines/hall_of_engines.jsp?locale=en_US
Click on the continue without flash button if you don't have flash.

I have owned and driven Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Honda, and currently a Harley Ultra Classic. Without a doubt the Harley is the worst engine - performance package out of all of the others I have owned. However, it always starts, runs great, doesn't leak oil, gets 45mph, looks and sounds great, and it gets the looks and admiration of others. There is a stigma, aura, legend, fantasy etc. behind Harleys. I can't really say that about the import bikes.

Let me give you another example that will painfully hit home for ya. Last Sunday we're pulling up to the docks in my Donzi. I'm over a couple of rows from 2 newer Baja's. The Baja's are bigger, newer, faster, etc. However, nobody is looking at them on the docks. As soon as we pull up in the Donzi (a 16 year old 24' Black Widow) a crowd starts to gather and make nice comments on what is it and were did you get that new boat.

You buy Harleys and Donzis for the experiance, fellowship, admiration, etc. not because they are the fastest, most technologically advanced, etc.

DonziJon
05-10-2006, 10:59 AM
Harley made a "Boxer" engine bike for the military. Don't remember which war.

The "Coneheads" were made in France. John

gcarter
05-10-2006, 11:00 AM
There are some import bikes that have similar reputations....
BMW, any post WW II twin
50's era Triumph 650 twins
Any V-twin Vincent
Any 50's-60's four cylinder MV Augusta.
Ariel Square Four

gcarter
05-10-2006, 11:03 AM
Harley made a "Boxer" engine bike for the military. Don't remember which war.
The "Coneheads" were made in France. John
Ding Ding
WW II, the Army wanted an exact copy of a late 30's BMW 738 cc twin.
These were pretty good bikes. Had a sprung rear axle. They made over 7000 of them but I've never seen one.

joel3078
05-10-2006, 11:14 AM
There are some import bikes that have similar reputations....
BMW, any post WW II twin
50's era Triumph 650 twins
Any V-twin Vincent
Any 50's-60's four cylinder MV Augusta.
Ariel Square Four

Yup! Import reference from me was the ones that you have to sprinkle some Uncle Ben's on them to get started in the spring - rice burners.

Craig S
05-10-2006, 12:55 PM
I am very impressed with how the Harleys are marketed. They aren't for me, but I am impressed. They have something that only Ducati, it seems, has been able to pattern (although not to Harley's degree).

btw, sounds like you-guys are selling Donzi short by comparing them to Harleys. Although boats have not evolved to the extent (extant?) of bikes, imho (and I don't own one) Donzi has kept up technically, while offering an extremely high quality product along with the previously discussed image.

That is a good combination in my book. Shoot me down if I am wrong...

Ed Donnelly
05-10-2006, 01:01 PM
George; Harleys first liquid cooled was 1994. The VR1000 for superbike racing...Ed


P.S. George; You got me 1913 for their new racing division, 1928 for the public, the JD series........Ed

CHACHI
05-10-2006, 02:05 PM
George; Harleys first liquid cooled was 1994. The VR1000 for superbike racing...Ed
P.S. George; You got me 1913 for their new racing division, 1928 for the public, the JD series........Ed...................and the JD series moved to Moline Illinois for production. Made the colors green and yellow famous. Ken

DonziJon
05-10-2006, 06:43 PM
George "Made Me Do this". :wink: The Soviets/Russians made a copy of the BMW/Harley (Boxer) military bike as well as Harley. Except they stole it after the war. It had a side car and I think it was Two rear wheel drive. As of 10....maybe more... years ago, they still made it and marketed it in this country. I saw one. Purchasing one was a tempting thought, just for the uniqueness of it. I think it was callled the "URAL" and was about $10K USD.
John

gcarter
05-10-2006, 09:02 PM
George "Made Me Do this". :wink: The Soviets/Russians made a copy of the BMW/Harley (Boxer) military bike as well as Harley. Except they stole it after the war. It had a side car and I think it was Two rear wheel drive. As of 10....maybe more... years ago, they still made it and marketed it in this country. I saw one. Purchasing one was a tempting thought, just for the uniqueness of it. I think it was callled the "URAL" and was about $10K USD.
John
John, BMW boxer twins are one of the most copied bikes in the world. There's another Russian copy called (I think) the Russo. I rode in the side car of one of these in Bolivia. It was owned by a guy who was a Lada dealer in La Paz.
But the Chinese have also set up several companies that make BMW copies.

CHACHI
05-11-2006, 06:21 AM
John, BMW boxer twins are one of the most copied bikes in the world. There's another Russian copy called (I think) the Russo. I rode in the side car of one of these in Bolivia. It was owned by a guy who was a Lada dealer in La Paz.
But the Chinese have also set up several companies that make BMW copies.................and another Russian copy of the BMW was the DNEPER(NIPPER) which was also available with sidecar drive. I belive the Chinese also had a copy way back when, the name escapes me but I belive that it began with an "M". Ken