22 Classic Handling Question - Blackhawk Hull vs Bravo Hull

[blackhawk]

Many of you know I had a Blackhawk for several years, so I know what the handling characteristics(and quirks) are. But, I have never been in or driven a standard 22 Classic hull.

Who has driven both and can tell me how different the handling really is. I ASSUME that without the rocker the standard hull is more controllable and predictable. I would also assume that since the outrdrive has more leverage you will have more control over the attitude of the boat with the drive.

My Blackhawk was a great boat, and I enjoyed it very much. But in the sloppy washing machine waters you really had to drive it and use the tabs to control the attitude.

A friend is looking at a normal classic with a 454 so I am doing a little research for him.

Thanks!!! :D

[Dr. Dan]

Many of you know I had a Blackhawk for several years, so I know what the handling characteristics(and quirks) are. But, I have never been in or driven a standard 22 Classic hull.
Who has driven both and can tell me how different the handling really is. I ASSUME that without the rocker the standard hull is more controllable and predictable. I would also assume that since the outrdrive has more leverage you will have more control over the attitude of the boat with the drive.
My Blackhawk was a great boat, and I enjoyed it very much. But in the sloppy washing machine waters you really had to drive it and use the tabs to control the attitude.
A friend is looking at a normal classic with a 454 so I am doing a little research for him.
Thanks!!! :D

:beer: Well, Actually I think ya nailed it pretty accurately, others will confirm the Rocker Hulls are a looser feel on the water, we ran last weekend, and I ran with a rocker hulled 22... it runs well, but its a different drive than the standard hull. I have been told the standard hulls are alot more forgiving, land more predictably and are all around easier to drive and enjoy than a rockered hull.

The cool part of the Hawks or Rockered Hulls are that when ya do Master them... they really are quick. I ran with your old boat at Winnie last year, I think its in good hands, the new owner knows how to drive that Puppy... I was very impressed. It was an awesome Lake Winnie Poker Run...we musta had over a Dozen 22's running side by side at 70 + MPH...it was like a Squadron of Donzis....very, very, cool sight. And it was puntuated by the awesome Rooster Tails of the Hawk Boats.

Doc of the Bay:spongebob
www.atlanticcoastdonzi.com

[blackhawk]

Thanks for the input! That's kind of what I figured I just wanted to make sure. I hate to "assume" anything! :D

Are you sure that was my old boat you ran with? Do you remember his name? I can't think of it off the top of my head but if I heard it i would probably remember. The guy that bought my boat did not give me the impression that he was the type of guy that "runs hard", but I could be wrong! :D

[Dr. Dan]

:spongebob I'll get his name next time I talk to Culotta, he does appear to be conservative, but I can assure you he is a certified lunatic when it comes to boating, absolutely fearless, you should see him in his 16, that is a show... he actually IMO did better in your Black hawk then in the 16. It made him look like a Stud. :spongebob

He has 2 other boats besides yours... big Formula I believe, nice house right on the Lake, in fact his place is one of the Card Stops.

You should come over this Summer, last Weekend in July always that Saturday...I am sure you would be welcomed. Great people on Winnie, and a really beautiful place, can get rough if the Wind kicks up, because the Lake Runs East To West, so ya have alot of water to build up some Wild Waves, its a great place to run a Donzi...and even with the talk of Speed Limits. I am sure we will all have a great time.


:beer: Doc :beer:

[Cuda]

I'm in no way an expert on 22's, since I've only driven one, and it's not particularly fast, it tracks straighter wide open than any other boat I've ever driven. It truly runs like it's on rails.

[blackhawk]

:beer: Well, Actually I think ya nailed it pretty accurately, others will confirm the Rocker Hulls are a looser feel on the water, we ran last weekend, and I ran with a rocker hulled 22... it runs well, but its a different drive than the standard hull. I have been told the standard hulls are alot more forgiving, land more predictably and are all around easier to drive and enjoy than a rockered hull.
The cool part of the Hawks or Rockered Hulls are that when ya do Master them... they really are quick. I ran with your old boat at Winnie last year, I think its in good hands, the new owner knows how to drive that Puppy... I was very impressed. It was an awesome Lake Winnie Poker Run...we musta had over a Dozen 22's running side by side at 70 + MPH...it was like a Squadron of Donzis....very, very, cool sight. And it was puntuated by the awesome Rooster Tails of the Hawk Boats.
Doc of the Bay:spongebob
www.atlanticcoastdonzi.com

That could be him! He did own a couple other boats and I know one of them was a bigger boat. He owned Evergreen RV in Rochester, NH.

[DONZI]

Thanks for the input! That's kind of what I figured I just wanted to make sure. I hate to "assume" anything! :D
Are you sure that was my old boat you ran with? Do you remember his name? I can't think of it off the top of my head but if I heard it i would probably remember. The guy that bought my boat did not give me the impression that he was the type of guy that "runs hard", but I could be wrong! :D
It was Rich or Rick. I had asked him if it was yours and he said "yes".He has removed the Blackhawk from the windshield. A great guy and a lot of fun !
Like Dan say's he can handle a boat. I followed him on one of the L.Winni poker runs when others had turned back.It was a show watching him put his 16 through the paces. I was behind him with my 22 trying to keep up in some pretty tough conditions.I think his shirt pic. below summed it up. I remember his passenger opting out at the 1st stop, but he made them all.

[blackhawk]

It was Rich or Rick. I had asked him if it was yours and he said "yes".He has removed the Blackhawk from the windshield. A great guy and a lot of fun !
Like Dan say's he can handle a boat. I followed him on one of the L.Winni poker runs when others had turned back.It was a show watching him put his 16 through the paces. I was behind him with my 22 trying to keep up in some pretty tough conditions.I think his shirt pic. below summed it up. I remember his passenger opting out at the 1st stop, but he made them all.

Yep it was Rich or Rick! I want to say Rick. But I can't remember for sure. :confused: He was a super nice guy. I guess it goes to show you that first impressions mean nothing! I would have never guessed he was the type of guy to drive hard. That's great! :D

[blackhawk]

You should come over this Summer, last Weekend in July always that Saturday...I am sure you would be welcomed. Great people on Winnie, and a really beautiful place, can get rough if the Wind kicks up, because the Lake Runs East To West, so ya have alot of water to build up some Wild Waves, its a great place to run a Donzi...and even with the talk of Speed Limits. I am sure we will all have a great time.
:beer: Doc :beer:

That would be fun! I should figure out how far it is. I wouldn't mind taking a couple trips this year. :D

[blackhawk]

Just got off the phone with him and it has the Volvo 385 DPX package! I know it's a great drive but i have no idea how well it was set-up on the 22 Classic.

I think I'll start a new thread on the DPX part.

[blackhawk]

What about trim tam usage on the Bravo 22s? Do you have to adjust them often or is it something that once you get dialed in for water conditions you can leave alone and use the the outdrive trim to control the boat's handling and balance?

[Dr. Dan]

What about trim tam usage on the Bravo 22s? Do you have to adjust them often or is it something that once you get dialed in for water conditions you can leave alone and use the the outdrive trim to control the boat's handling and balance?

:bonk: Well, after some education with Poodle at 1000 Islands, I learned to leave them alone, I have indexed my Drive and Tabs and I know which position is effectively Nuetral for both(Parallel with Hulls Running Surface) and I can tell ya I don't adjust the Tabs any more since I have the new ponies and since I know where my Drive is. The 22 Flies Flat and Straight as an Arrow, with the exception being when there is too much positive Trim and ya hit a Wake, it will Launch like a Missile.

If I Air it out for a true Speed Run, I do Trim it up quite a bit...and it screams faster than I feel comfortable running it for an extended period of time...

I keep it reasonably conservative and I can cruise 75 mph all day long, or until the Fuel Runs out....of course we normally cruise around 45 to 55 on average probably 90 % of the time.

Hawk are we considering another 22 here or why all of the Questions again?:banghead:

Doc :D

[blackhawk]

:bonk: Well, after some education with Poodle at 1000 Islands, I learned to leave them alone, I have indexed my Drive and Tabs and I know which position is effectively Nuetral for both(Parallel with Hulls Running Surface) and I can tell ya I don't adjust the Tabs any more since I have the new ponies and since I know where my Drive is. The 22 Flies Flat and Straight as an Arrow, with the exception being when there is too much positive Trim and ya hit a Wake, it will Launch like a Missile.
If I Air it out for a true Speed Run, I do Trim it up quite a bit...and it screams faster than I feel comfortable running it for an extended period of time...
I keep it reasonably conservative and I can cruise 75 mph all day long, or until the Fuel Runs out....of course we normally cruise around 45 to 55 on average probably 90 % of the time.
Hawk are we considering another 22 here or why all of the Questions again?:banghead:
Doc :D

Thanks Doc, good info! I am trying to get info for a friend that is looking at a 22 Classic with a Volvo DPX. Since I only have experience with the Blackhawk I figured I could get some good info here! :D

I bought myself a Pantera 24 a few months ago! :D

[Looped]

Are you guys talking about the same guy that came to the 2002 Lake Winni poker run in that 700hp supercharged Sweet sixteen (white with red stripes I think)? If so, that thing was crazy! I think I still have photos somewhere of it. Bverd took a bunch of photos of it and had them posted for a while.

Craig

[Dr. Dan]

Are you guys talking about the same guy that came to the 2002 Lake Winni poker run in that 700hp supercharged Sweet sixteen (white with red stripes I think)? If so, that thing was crazy! I think I still have photos somewhere of it. Bverd took a bunch of photos of it and had them posted for a while.
Craig

:wavey: Yep, He is certifiable in that thing(the 16).:D I would rather run with him in the 22 than the 16, he got me nervous, boat was like a Snow Saucer Skipping all of the place.... I stayed far away.

Hawk that is great, ya need to post some pics of that Pantera... In a few years Liz and I want to get a little bigger boat for the Bay, we will always keep the "Blue Pill", but I really want a 28 SS or an Older Offshore design, freshen it up a bit and keep it clean like the 22.

I think its stupid to spend $150,000 to $250,000 or more for the newest this or that when there are soooo many bargains on older boats that have Classic Solid Hull Designs they just need some TLC to bring'em back to life.

I think I'll use the Mid Life Crisis as the reason and pass on the ZO-7 Vette and get another boat, maybe?

Doc :smash:

[DAULEY]

i had a le bh boat after blowing 2 drives i put a bravo1 on and the boat was more user friendly and still ran in the mid to high 70s
with the bh drive you needed a lot of seat time to learn the ins and outs .alot of tab steering boat was not made to just cruise around
the lake at 35 it was biuldt to run hard. just my 2 cent

[roadtrip se]

for leaving the tabs alone on a regular 22 Classic. Waste of time, except for the most unusual water conditions or times where you just can't get the weight right in the boat.

Now with the BH, I actually steered with the things. Completely different ride and boat.

[roadtrip se]

i had a le bh boat after blowing 2 drives i put a bravo1 on and the boat was more user friendly and still ran in the mid to high 70s
with the bh drive you needed a lot of seat time to learn the ins and outs .alot of tab steering boat was not made to just cruise around
the lake at 35 it was biuldt to run hard. just my 2 cent
and I hope they put it back to stock Bob.

Doing this to a Blackhawk is kind of like swapping the supercharged motor in my Cobra Mustang for a four cylinder. Yes, it will still go and be much more stable, but the car would no longer be what it was set up to be.

The one BH "conversion" I have driven was a total disaster handling-wise.

[blackhawk]

That is great about Rick(or Rich)! I would have never guessed!

Dr. Dan I am really excited about the Pantera! :D It's a 1999 with a 502 mag.

Think Spring!!! :D

[DAULEY]

when i sold the bh i gave the buyer the option of a new bh drive or the bravo he left it with a bravo

[blackhawk]

Thanks for the input on the Bravo boats. My assumptions were right. I just wanted to make sure! :D

Dauley sorry to here your problems with your BH drive. Sounds like you need somebody that knows what they are doing get in there and set it up right. I know around here everybody wanted to make you think that a "magician" had to work on them because they were such a "limited production performance drive" so they could charge you way more $$$ in labor. :rolleyes: If you can set up a Bravo 3, you can set up a Blackhawk, you just need a few special tools. Just like a normal Bravo, setup is EVERYTHING!