Oil and Water in the oil pan

[LSUTIGERS74]

I recently found an excellent deal on a 1990 Donzi Black Widow 30', and up until today I was going to purchase the boat on Sunday. But today I get a call from the seller saying he cranked up the engine and water and oil started to spit from the engine. So he checks the oil pan and the oil is very milky, which leads me to believe the water had been slowly seeping in through a blown head gasket. This is a Ford 460/Cobra outdrive setup, has anyone ever had this happen on their engine. Any ideas behind this besides blown head gasket, cracked cylinder, cracked block or maybe a cracked head (which I am hoping is the case, if it is not a blown head gasket, those two options are the cheapest fix!) Please let me know I am working on a timetable w/ another guy who might buy the boat and swap out engines to got to 502's, but I hate to let this boat get away since it just sounds so damn good at idle that it makes your hair standup. Any ideas would be very helpful.

Thanks,

[tmdog]

But today I get a call from the seller saying he cranked up the engine and water and oil started to spit from the engine.
Thanks,


What do you mean by "spit from the engine". This will give our resident experts more info to analyze.

[MOP]

The Widow is a real nice boat, I was treated to a ride in Extreme Measures boat a few years back. It was in some pretty bad sea conditions, the boat crushed the waves and ran darn fast. The 460 is a good motor, why not see if the owner will have if fixed for you. If it has been sitting for awhile it needs to atleast have the heads pulled to get a good assessment of what it needs to be right. It is the old adage either he fixes it for you the next guy or himself! Price should stay the same.

Phil

[LSUTIGERS74]

I have already contacted the seller, and we are going to have the mechanic pull the top of the engine off, so that he may take a look at all the components at once. Hopefully it will be just a blown gasket, then I will go thru with the purchase. I definitely agree that it needs to be compression tested just in case. I brought the mechanic from our shop, I am a CAT diesel engine engineer, and we have a ton of guys out here who know diesel engines but not the gas engine as well. He seems to think along the line of cracked heads, hopefully I will find out today the outcome and get the problem solved.

Our I could buy the boat and rip both the engines out and since I am a CAT diesel type of guy, convert to the 500 HP CAT diesel C9 engines for what could quite possible be the first Diesel Donzi-CAT project. Of course new gearing would have to be used and different props designed for 2500 max rpm.

Either way your input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

[LSUTIGERS74]

By spit out of the engine, I mean out of the exhaust. Sorry for not specifying diagnosis.

[Trueser]

I would look at the other motor also. Both sets of risers were gone on our 29.

Good Luck

[maddad]

I had oil come out the exhaust because of a bad oil cooler. That wouldn't put water in the oil pan though.

[22zxla]

Hey tiger , I know absolutely nothing about the problem,But hope you get the boat an fixed fast. The tickfaw 200 poker run is may 6 an you got to be there.Keep in touch im a hugh tiger fan! SEC champs!

[LSUTIGERS74]

The boat is all but bought unless I get outbid by the guy who is going to swap the engines out with 502's, which by the way would make this boat kick some serious ass!!! But the original plan is to run the boat at the prop stop and the poker run at the beginning of May. Hopefully nothing too bad is wrong with the engine and can be fixed without major re-haulin' Look forward to seeing everybody there.

[LSUTIGERS74]

Well its almost official, (99%) that tomorrow I will be a proud new owner of this boat even though it has a few minor engine problems, I just couldn't live with myself if I didn't buy the damn boat. I guess it is true what they say it is a disease for the rest of your life.

[FISHIN SUCKS]

I second the notion that it's not the engine oil cooler. Ours went bad, looked like the Exxon Valdez off the transom (running or not). But never any water in the pan. My neighbors boat cracked the block last year, the popped freeze plugs tipped us off (gets cold up here in the winter). He definitely had milk in the pan. Any water leaks when she was tested can sometimes tell you this. Good luck in your purchase.

The C9's would definitely be different. If you do it, better hurry before the
'07 emissions hit, not sure where you will put all that catalytic converter stuff!

[LSUTIGERS74]

I am still having everything checked out tomorrow and we will see what is wrong.

As far as the C9's go they already meet up to 2010 emissions since these would be CAT's new ACERT technology (Tier II engines). The larger engines are the one's that every major engine (diesel) manufacturer is having problems with, as of this moment no large HP diesel engine manufacturer has been able to meet 07' emission criterion.

[FISHIN SUCKS]

I am still having everything checked out tomorrow and we will see what is wrong.
As far as the C9's go they already meet up to 2010 emissions since these would be CAT's new ACERT technology (Tier II engines). The larger engines are the one's that every major engine (diesel) manufacturer is having problems with, as of this moment no large HP diesel engine manufacturer has been able to meet 07' emission criterion.
I wasn't sure about the little motors. I know all of my customers are in a scramble to get trucks bought this year before the big $10k slap gets thrown on for nothing.:fire:

[BUIZILLA]

new truck emissions you say..... ??????

I just paid $2306.00 for a Cummins specific 2006 M11 muffler/catalytic (?) for a transit customer.... then I had to mark that up for resale??? :shocking: :shocking: :umbrella: :cool:

apparently they liked the price, they just ordered 5 more this morning..... :yes: :yes:

gotta luv government contracts... :p

[FISHIN SUCKS]

new truck emissions you say..... ??????
I just paid $2306.00 for a Cummins specific 2006 M11 muffler/catalytic (?) for a transit customer.... then I had to mark that up for resale??? :shocking: :shocking: :umbrella: :cool:
apparently they liked the price, they just ordered 5 more this morning..... :yes: :yes:
gotta luv government contracts... :p
My customers are freakin' out over the supposed 800lbs. and 10k they are going to be losing on the new motors (were talkin class 8 here). Don't know if the 800lbs is true, but sounds ugly if it is.

Sorry about gettin' off the subject. Well are you the proud new owner LSU? Maybe if I get the right steroids, my Blackwidow can grow up to be a 30' someday!

[Cuda]

I'm with Poodle betting on bad risers.

[LSUTIGERS74]

Well betting might have been a bad idea, but has not been completely ruled out as of yet b/c I haven't had a chance to pressure check them yet. But I finally to the bad news this morning and found what I believe to be the culprit for one side of the engine but haven't found the right banks problem yet. Well we pulled the engine intake manifold off this morning and we had two problems: 1) The intake manifold is full of gunk and rust 2) Below the intake manifod on top of the engine block is a terrible mess of oil and water mixture, kinda looks like white lithium grease (I will try to get some pictures)

So I pull the plugs to find rust on every plug except for the right front cylinder#1. Then proceeded to pull the heads where I find rust and even mold growing on top of the pistons, not really what I wanted to see. After inspecting the left bank head I am thinking I could just get this head re-worked until I see a huge chunk of metal missing from one of the ports. The rust deposits were so built up in the head that it corroded basically the entire port. Luckily the other head looks in pretty good shape (still will need to be re-worked), but still does not explain why there is water on the right bank. Did not have access to the overhead crane at the office to pull the block and see if anything else was wrong but next Sunday I should be able to pull the engine and check the lower end, and hopefully to connecting rods will be bent.

At least I don't think the block is cracked, might be the only silver lining. Of course everything will need to pulled and cleaned due to the white gunk mixture of oil and water that is on everything. Including the cam which will have to be polished b/c it has a little rust buildup on one of the loabs, and no telling what the crank looks like when I get to it. I soon as I get some pictures I will post them.

[22zxla]

hey tiger a good site for performance boating is offshoreonly.com. It has a wide base of boaters.It also has a donzi section. Try posting some problems on there, might get some feed back. On to duke!

[LSUTIGERS74]

Duke doesn't stand a chance!!!

[joseph m. hahnl]

The good news is if she turns over it will be a breeze to take it apart. Cleaning is a basic requirment for rebuiding so thats no big deal.

Note when polishing bearing surfaces use only steel wool as this is softer then the iron and will remove very little material.use a little navel jelly with it.
if you find pitting on those surfaces you may have to regrind or replace those components. If you feel it's way to much work I have come across some good links for remaned blocks. Some will take your core and evaluate it to see if it's worth anything and they will give you cedit towards your new one.

try these sites: http://remanufactured.com/Inboard_Marine_Engines.htm
http://remanufactured-engines.com/22%20Inboard%20Marine.htm
http://www.rapidomarine.com/default.aspx?404;http://www.rapidomarine.com/System/show.asp




good luck

joe