PDA

View Full Version : 28ZX versus 27ZX versus 26ZX



richardoren
02-27-2006, 01:34 AM
Hi Guys,

I am shopping for a used Donzi and cannot figure out the differences between a 28ZX, a 27ZX and a 26ZX.

Of course I realize that they have a slightly different overall length, and that the hull design used to be non-stepped and then became double stepped. But other than that, do they have a different sized cockpit, cuddy or engine bay?

Thanks for any info you might have. Their prices are all over the place, from sky high to reasonable, so I would appreciate knowing what makes the difference.

TIA.

Richard

Dr. Dan
02-27-2006, 08:06 AM
Check with Frank Civitano at Typhoon Performance Marine, he has alot of Z and Zx knowledge and will shoot straight with you. He is "Shanghied Again" on the Registry here...send him a private mail and he will get back with you.

Good Luck

Doc :smash:

Johntrip
02-27-2006, 09:38 AM
Why not throw a 33zx in the mix and totally confuse yourself........ When I first started looking at the ZX line I was shopping for a 28..... I decided to go with the 33 because of the comfort features such as a/c, microwave,fridge, etc..... If your going to use the cabin for sleeping overnight, a larger cabin is worth the money. My wife and I and three small children can all sleep comfortably in our cabin. Another difference in the 33 is the two motor set-up... I felt more comfortable having two motors since we go to the Bahamas frequently......

Frank was a great help in my decision making.... Almost bought a 28 from him but ended up buying a 33 from undertaker on the board here. Undertaker then bought a 22 from Frank... So I guess in a way Frank came out ok...!! Had the pleasure of meeting Frank at the Miami Boat Show, Nice guy !!!!

richardoren
02-27-2006, 11:52 AM
Why not throw a 33zx in the mix and totally confuse yourself........
Hi John,

Actually I won't because I plan on repowering to a diesel and arneson drive - and I don't have the budget to do that with twins. Plus, used singles sell for significantly less and wind up more economical.

I didn't stretch the comparison all the way to the older 25ZX because I think that one is indeed a different unit altogether? In any case I will be using the boat in rough water, and don't care as much about top speed as seaworthiness and ride comfort. This means that maybe I should go for the longest hull a single engine will push.

So I'd just rush off and buy a 28ZX to fit that bill, but there are quite a few more 27ZX and 26ZX units for sale in my price range (looking at late nineties boats). I prefer to have more purchasing options among similar boats, but need to know how similar or disimilar they may be.

Some here have said that the only difference between the 27ZX and 28ZX is a name change, which happened around the time of the introduction of the stepped hull. From what I've gathered the 26ZX is a bit lighter and also shorter, but I don't know what exact part of the boat loses in length.

I guess I will have to ask Frank, unless somebody else here who has seen both can give us a hint.

THX

Richard

The Hedgehog
02-27-2006, 02:31 PM
If you are considering going to an Arneson, a step might be a better option. Step hull boats work better than non-steps with a high x dimension because they don't need as much leverage to carry the bow. If you don't go step then you will probably need rocker plates. This is why 22 Blackhawks have a rockered hull.

On the other hand, I would like to see someone do an Arneson on a non-step for selfish reasons.

The difference between a 28Zx and a 26ZX is nominal. Frank C should be able to discuss since he has a wealth of experience with the 28ZX, 27ZX and 26ZX.

I still think that the ultimate combo would to a 28ZX step hull with an Arneson and some serious hp. It would run in some decent water and would smoke comparable sized offerings from Fountain and Velocity.

Ultimate efficiency would be a 28ZX step with a big powerful diesel.

I would think that you culd buy a used single engine 28ZX with a 454 for a good price. The 454 is too small for that boat and should make it cheap to purchase as it is not as desireable. You would dump the 454 anyway. They don't come up for sale that much but should be a good buy when on the market.

The 33 on the other hand is in a totally different league.

richardoren
02-28-2006, 02:57 AM
Hi Big Green,

Indeed, if I mate an Arneson to a diesel much of the technical lore about these boats goes out the window. I would definitely want to prop big and get to plane at slow speeds, allowing to cruise at very economical low rpms.

This might remove the main drawback of the traditional hull which usually takes too long to get out of the hole. This could also bring an added benefit, that of taking big waves slower with less slamming of passengers than with a stepped hull. It would make for an entirely different seagoing character, at least with the traditional hull. With an Arneson on a stepped hull who knows what it would ride like, with a diesel/arneson it might even plane at idle? :rlol:

I will have to wait for Frank to judge whether a stepped hull is best due to the lesser leverage of an Arneson drive. To try to find out sooner rather than later, I have sent Frank a PM and email. I hope he joins the thread with some info since he has owned/sold/raced most ZX models.
I am not worried about the stepped hull's tendency to chine walk at speed because I will be propping big and boating in rough seas that won't allow higher speeds. Since I want to have maximum seagoing ability in heavy seas, I wonder if a stepped hull would really be the ticket if trapped in a storm? :lightning

I guess that beyond the visual difference (the sleeker 27/28 sure looks nice) there is probably no noteworthy change in performance between the shorter 26 and its big brothers if they have the same hull. Frank will confirm or deny. Perhaps the bow weight bias of the 28 was designed in to compensate for twins, while the 26 was designed at even keel with a single engine? Then wouldn't a single diesel push the weight into twin gasoline territory, making the 28 a better balanced boat for a diesel/Arneson repower?

So many questions, with too high a price for blind experimentation. Thanks to all for sharing your insight. :boat:

Richard

Shanghied Again
02-28-2006, 07:55 AM
If your going to an arneson use the direct replacement for a bravo drive. Step Bottom boats are actually better because their X dimension is higher so replacing a bravo with the Arneson direct replacement will work the best. Keep away from any step bottom 28 ZXs from 2000 down. they changed the bottom in 2001 and is a much better bottom and yes there are big differences from a 27ZX and a 28ZX 27ZX has the old bottom, larger steps and cockpit is pushed back. 26 ZX has remained the same from its intro in 1999 this bottom is the same bottom they are using on the 28ZX today.
The big difference between a 28 ZX and a 26 ZX is lenght they are both built on the same hull bottom and you stand a better chance finding a single engine 26 then a 28ZX after 2001 most 28ZXs came in with twin application. I don't know how the boat will run with a diesel due to the weight but the arneson should help get the boat on plain faster. both 26 and 28 have the same beam 8'6" and cockpit room the nose is 11" longer on the 28. the 27 ZX was a squirlly boat and had a habit of chine walking this would not be a good canadate for an arneson drive she could get violent at top speed. spend the extra money and go for a newer 28 single or a 26ZX.

richardoren
03-01-2006, 12:42 AM
Hi Frank,

Thanks for sharing your insight with all of us here. I am certain that over time many registry members will be interested in understanding the subtle and not so subtle differences between these seemingly similar models.

One thing you have established, is that for fast boating the early stepped hull on the late nineties up to the year 2000 inclusive 27ZX and 28ZX was not well designed and unpredictable at speed. Those with these hulls should be extra cautious during high speed turns. :crossfing

What you have also stated is that the stepped hull on all years of the 26ZX, from 1999 onwards, is a great hull design, and was also used on the 28ZX from 2001 on. :yippie:

I understand that you recommend this stepped hull which is a leading characteristic of Donzi performance boats. However, I have read many threads in the Offshore Only forum and elsewhere in which seasoned racers find that where a stepped hull prevails in the straightaways, a traditional hull goes faster in curves and in waves. So up until your last post, I had set my sights on a tradional hull 27ZX for its better ability to handle in heavy seas. With 8 foot waves, which hull would you prefer to ride? :chillpill

For those who may not have understood your suggestion to stick with a stepped hull with an Arneson drive, here is a quote from the OSO forum:


Technically speaking, the "X" dimension is the distance "on" the transom from the intersect of the boat bottom and transom (at drive location) to crank center to place the prop shaft at the desired height. It gets the X label from the math; trig function to find the hypotenuse on a right triangle, where x is the hypotenuse. The X varies with transom angle, drive type and stand off (unless the transom angle is exactly 13 degrees). Some times we discuss X dimension as the actual propshaft height, it's not. It's how we get there. Is this technical enough :D
And here is what the other Rich has to say about it in another registry thread:

Hard to say for sure since yours is a single but I would be reluctant to go up on the X with a stepped bottom. The stepped boats will pull a lot of air in under the hull during hard accelerations & will cavitate the prop. It may end up being faster on the top end but I'd think that raising the X would have a negative effect on handling and acceleration.
Fasttrucker is probably the best source for 27'-28' single info. He seems to have his dialed in pretty good.
Fasttrucker, where are you when we need you?

Frank, I know that you are partial to the 2-step Donzis, but what exactly is the difference in X factor between the traditional and stepped hull? I've looked at photographs of a number of each and haven't seen a flagrantly greater distance between boat bottom and crankshaft center. Would you recommend against using an Arneson on a traditional hull for other reasons, granted that it would be a better match to a stepped hull?

Here are the transoms of a 1999 stepped hull 26ZX and a 1996 Vee hull 27ZX, I will let you guys guess which one is which. ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/richardoren/1999Donzi26ZXwithsteppedhull.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/richardoren/1996Donzi27ZXwithVeehull.jpg

Thanks for your patient help. I am still trying to decide between hulls... :banghead: ...and don't want to have to buy one of each to find out.

Richard

TuxedoPk
03-01-2006, 06:24 AM
"With 8 foot waves, which hull would you prefer to ride?"

Ok, I'll bite. Last time I looked at a map I remember Vermont being landlocked. Where are you planning on boating with 8' waves? Lake Ontario or the Atlantic?

richardoren
03-01-2006, 06:39 AM
Hiya Tuxedo,

Ok, I'll fess up - it isn't for Lake Champlain but for the Med where I spend summers with my wife's family in Corsica - shame the Donzi Corsican is a wee bit small for our purposes. Those who have been there know that it has some treacherous seas second only to the Cyclades in Greece. This is what makes me preoccupied with a stepped hull, I will probably not be getting to use its higher top speed every day.

Meanwhile, I seem to have misunderstood Frank above, as I found this post of his in another thread and stand corrected:

In 1999 the step bottom was changed, the single engine boats and some of the twin engine boats were to radicle riding of a boat. They had a habit of chinning and slipping on the rear. Damn Donzi was perfect proof of that bottom.
In 1999 the 28ZX was retooled and the bottom was made with not as an aggressive step bottom pulled the cockpit foward, and in 2000 the new designed windshield, door cabin and dash were introduced.
The 1999-2005 Donzi 28ZX are one of the best running Performance boats in its size range, They won many honors from Powerboat magazine needless to say several other boating magazines.
These boats were to heavy for racing boat get thim in any poker run and rough water and you will put anyother boat in its size range to shame.
Given my lower speed use and need for wave handling dynamics, especially with a single engine, I am leaning towards an earlier vee hulled 28ZX or 27ZX - although there are a few tempting stepped 26ZXs for sale at this time... but I don't want to make an offer on a boat and then back out after changing my mind about its hull. :embarasse

Thx

Richard

DAULEY
03-01-2006, 07:06 AM
there is a 1996 27 in fla that can be had for 18500 502 with a bravo 3 and trailer looks like the boat in 2nd pix

richardoren
03-01-2006, 07:29 AM
Hi Dauley,

You can learn more about that ambitious restoration project in my other thread, Problems with older Donzis:
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=43812

Meanwhile, reading some of Frank's older posts about the need for twins in stepped hull Donzis, I have been wondering if handling with a single engine isn't better with a Vee hull, a stepped hull being tougher to control at speed with a single prop?

Rich

DAULEY
03-01-2006, 07:42 AM
they did a bad patch in the gel its a 1996 27 i had it check out and made a offer but it was turned down if you need any info let me know
bob

richardoren
03-01-2006, 02:08 PM
For those of you with diesel suggestions to repower a 26/27/28ZX, here's a link to the thread in the Performance forum:
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=41542

Thanks in advance.

Richard

Woodsy
03-03-2006, 12:33 PM
Richard...

Why even mess with the boat at all? With the notable exception of the "cool" factor.

Look at the costs... By the time you buy a boat, lets go with an older 27ZX boat so we will say approx $25-28K, you'll get 7-8K for your old stuff so net the boat will cost you $20K. Then its $15K for the Arneson/Bravo conversion kit, and another $20K or so for a diesel, and lets add in another $5-10K for rigging costs and incidentals all of those 10 year old guages and wiring will need replacing... your looking at a $65K investment when you are all done... No bank is going to touch the boat for a note because it will still be a 199X boat, and the insurance companies won't want to write an agreed value policy either.

I think you are better off getting a nice 26ZX, if your into low speed cruising slap a Bravo 3 on it and go... The $30K or so you are saving will buy ALOT of gas... even at European prices!

Or, if you must, put the diesel in, slap on the B3 and go... just upgrade the gearset!

For the record I LOVE my 26ZX... its a great boat, handles all the rough water Lake Winnipesaukee here in NH can throw at her! Come on down and I'll take you for a spin... once the ice is out of course!

Woodsy

richardoren
03-04-2006, 07:19 AM
Hi Woodsy,

You sound just like my wife ! ;)

Just kidding, but really she was telling me the exact same thing this morning. Maybe I'm an unrealistic guy, wanting to have my cake and eat it too, even if it breaks the bank?

I won't be needing to finance it, so banks are out of the loop. However, it will just about clean me out the way I've got it figured, which is why my wife wanted to review the costs step by step. I honestly didn't even dare mention the Arneson kit price, having contacted Rick and asked him about a rebuilt or used demo unit. Thinking of pulling a Duramax out of a wrecked GM/Chevy pickup too. But you are right that I will only save small increments when considering the total cost.

I understand that such huge amounts will save enough to fund quite a fuel budget. However I need to figure into the equation a few other factors:

- wintering costs half as much in Europe when the boat is a diesel
- the arneson is bullet proof even in salt water, reducing Bravo repair and replacement costs
- yearly taxes are lower for boats with diesel engines
- most European boat mechanics are only into diesels
- it is next to impossible to resell a gas engined boat in Europe

Your arguments are worth thinking over though. I understand that there are 2 boats competing in a relatively similar budget amount: a 1996/1997 27ZX w/traditional hull versus a 1999/up 26ZX w/stepped hull. Other than the presence of a sink in the cuddy and the smaller cabin size, the only difference would be in the hull design. So I really need to pick the one best suited to the waters it will be in.

Of course, if keeping the original engine, the hull's incidence on fuel economy will be a more important factor than with a frugal diesel. What's your idea of the differences in high seas handling / fuel economy between the 2 hull shapes? Have you been in a 27ZX, or spoken with owners comparing log books?

Also, most of the boats I am looking at have a Bravo 1 which is usually considered stronger for high horsepower engines. With a roughly 425/440hp Mercruiser 502 7.4l engine, would a Bravo 3 give significantly lower fuel consumption with its double prop?

I think you are better off getting a nice 26ZX, if your into low speed cruising slap a Bravo 3 on it and go... The $30K or so you are saving will buy ALOT of gas... even at European prices! Or, if you must, put the diesel in, slap on the B3 and go... just upgrade the gearset!
I thought that the fragile part of the Bravo 3 wasn't as much the gearing as the mechanically smaller double shafts to run the reverse action double prop. Would heavy duty gearing really make it bullet proof with a stock engine? I could always keep the 502 and rebuild the top end with rounded cam lobes to give a lot more torque at low rpms at the expense of high speed horsepower. The higher torque would allow for bigger propping and slower planing speeds, nice both for better single engine control in heavy seas and for a longer range and fuel economy at European gas prices! :cool:

Thanks for your suggestions.

Richard

BUIZILLA
03-04-2006, 07:48 AM
I'm really confused at this point, but hey, that's nuthin' new... :stan:

If your dead set on a diesel....a 350hp Yanmar, and a beefed up B3. Anything else, and your literally throwing money away in bucketfull's. That's the absolute lightest, most reliable package going. :lookaroun

Merc also has a Cummins/Merc package now as well... turn key. :biggrin:

Bottom line here, in those waters your NOT going to run WOT most, if at any at all. Nobody cares about the cool factor there, trust me, when your anchored 100 yards offshore anyways... :rolleyes: your standing on a sea wall looking at your anchored boat through binoculars anyways.

If your thinking a gas engine package won't sell over there, try selling a one off Arneson/diesel setup, just put it in your will and let your distant relatives worry about it. :idea:

If your dead set on cool, the new Volvo underwater assbackwards drive IS the future, 99% of the world just doesn't know it yet.... :umbrella:

JH

fasttrucker
03-04-2006, 07:57 AM
That volvo set-up would really save fuel,but would it work in a performance boat?

BUIZILLA
03-04-2006, 08:02 AM
That volvo set-up would really save fuel,but would it work in a performance boat?there is no such thing as a single engine diesel *performance* cuddy boat. If there is, just show me ONE, just one...

JH

richardoren
03-04-2006, 08:15 AM
I'm really confused at this point, but hey, that's nuthin' new... :stan:
If your dead set on a diesel....a 350hp Yanmar, and a beefed up B3. Anything else, and your literally throwing money away in bucketfull's. That's the absolute lightest, most reliable package going. :lookaroun Merc also has a Cummins/Merc package now as well... turn key. :biggrin: If your dead set on cool, the new Volvo underwater assbackwards drive IS the future, 99% of the world just doesn't know it yet.... :umbrella: JH
Hi Jim,

Sounds like you've been talking with Ed - he told my brother that Yanmar was the only way to go. I thought they were way expensive though... Guess I figured wrong?

Tell us more about the turnkey Mercruiser/Cummins option. I sort of like beefy American built bullit-proof engines. Or is the Yanmar superior in sturdiness and not just in weight advantage?

I really don't care about the cool factor, and assume that any futuristic experimental drive by Volvo would cost oodles, possibly more than an Arneson without its anti corrosion virtues. I actually don't really know what is cool, although my soon to be teenaged son thinks Donzis are cool. Can we blame him? ;)

In European salt water I've heard horror stories about Bravo 3s corroding in a single season. Anodes get completely eaten away in a matter of weeks , leaving nothing to protect the drive if you don't inspect it every other Sunday: not the maintenance slavery I want on weekends. But if you really think I am misinformed and that a BIII can weather entire summers of sitting at dockside, I'll put it back on my wish list. :confused:

Woodsy says just keep it stock, you say use a Yanmar/B3, at least you both agree upon the drive. As for the Yanmar, what kind of torque are we talking?

TIA

Richard

richardoren
03-05-2006, 03:53 AM
Shopping for a boat, the last difference I find between used ZX Donzis is that some have an opaque metal or fiberglass wind deflector and others have a glass or lexan windshield.

I understand that a full windshield with see through glass was an extra cost option, but is there an advantage to having a lower deflector? One I can think of is that you don't always have to stand up in your bolster seat in order to see above a soaked windshield. Another is that you always have wind in your hair and more of the feel of a sports boat. :biggrin:

A full windshield might reduce the windchill of off-season or dawn and dusk boating. I could also reduce deafening wind battering your ears? In the open sea there are few bugs, mosquitos stay close to the shore, making a windshield useless in waters where the speed limit is 5 knots. Lake boaters will opt for a windshield bug crushers or come equipped with toothpicks and use face-mounted windshields called shades. :shades:

If you don't want a windshield and prefer extreme headgear, this 27ZX is for sale right now:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/richardoren/DamnDonziF-166.jpg

One last advantage of a windshield over a deflector is the possibility of adding an all-season full cockpit enclosure ready to ride the storm:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/richardoren/2003ZXOwithfullenclosure.jpg

Cheers,

Rich

fasttrucker
03-05-2006, 08:41 AM
Ive never seen a full enclosure on a zx before!Thanks for posting that picture!

richardoren
03-05-2006, 09:14 AM
Hi Fastrucker,

It was a 2003 28ZXO open bow that Aqua Mania was selling last summer. Looks like it isn't in inventory anymore. The full canopy makes it into a two-seater, with other folks relegated to the cuddy in the cockpit leaning way forward. Still, that way it can be enjoyed with a space heater in the dead of winter. :cool:

Richard

richardoren
03-05-2006, 10:10 AM
Maybe I should quit looking at ZX models and switch to the new ZR?

Boater's Life says that the 26ZR with "the 496 should be around 75 mpg"
Here's the link:
http://www.boaterslife.com/donzi-26-zr.1613.281.335.htm
:biggrin:

richardoren
03-05-2006, 12:49 PM
Ive never seen a full enclosure on a zx before!Thanks for posting that picture!
Here's the only two other pictures that show off that canvas:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/richardoren/2003ZXOandfullenclosure.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/richardoren/2003ZXOinsidefullenclosure.jpg

Woodsy
03-06-2006, 07:08 AM
Richard...

If it were me, I would go with the 26Zx stepped huill, hands down. Mine rides nice and takes the rough on Winni just fine. They are easy to find and fairly inexpensive to buy.

I just think that spending $30K on top of a $30K boat is just nuts. Especially when your not going to see any performance increase, just better fuel economy. The cool factor of an Arenson/Diesel combo is there, but reality its way too pricey, for very little gain. You can buy a spare Bravo drive, spare gas engine and still have $20K left over for gas! As for winterizing the boat... you can do that yourself... its amazingly easy! I was pretty much the last man standing on Winni... I pulled the boat in December....

PS: Whats with the ZF logo on the back of the bolsters on that ZX? Am I the only one who caught that?

Woodsy

Dr. Dan
03-06-2006, 07:40 AM
:spongebob "I was pretty much the last man standing on Winni... I pulled the boat in December.... "

As I recall you're always the last man standing... you gonna actually run that thing with us this year?

Looking forward to it :cool:

Doc :beer:

Schnook
03-06-2006, 08:34 AM
Woodsy's got a good point. Also, unless you're a seasoned mechanic, consider that you may not have the resources available to help with problems that can arise in a one off project. One of the great things about this site is that you can tap into a lot of experience to help solve problems, but like Buizilla said, "Show me one". You don't want all your fuel savings to be because your boat doesn't work and you can't get any help.

Woodsy
03-06-2006, 09:27 AM
:spongebob "I was pretty much the last man standing on Winni... I pulled the boat in December.... "
As I recall you're always the last man standing... you gonna actually run that thing with us this year?
Looking forward to it :cool:
Doc :beer:

Doc...

Last year I was guest driver on a 26ZX with spun prop hub... It was a boat full of girls, so I really didn't mind being the slow boat. This year I will be piloting my own boat... I should have it dialed in for the Poker Run.

Woodsy

Dr. Dan
03-06-2006, 11:21 AM
Doc...
Last year I was guest driver on a 26ZX with spun prop hub... It was a boat full of girls, so I really didn't mind being the slow boat. This year I will be piloting my own boat... I should have it dialed in for the Poker Run.
Woodsy

:wavey: You Stud...No Wonder they call you Woodsy? :banghead:

You got any pics of this boat, maybe you can post them on another thread? Or maybe I missed them on an earlier post?:rolleyes:

Doc :smash:

Woodsy
03-07-2006, 07:37 AM
Poodle...

MY SERIOUS BAD!!!:shocking:

I am sorry... its all boxed up and ready to go... really it is! Its been sitting there waiting for me to go to UPS for months... I just keep getting sidetracked and forgetting about it.

I am sorry... I will try to get it out to you tomorrow!

Woodsy

richardoren
03-08-2006, 02:55 AM
Whats with the ZF logo on the back of the bolsters on that ZX? Am I the only one who caught that? Woodsy
Woodsy, you sure have the eye for detail! It looks like they replaced a worn out helm seat cover.


Richard...
If it were me, I would go with the 26Zx stepped huill, hands down. I just think that spending $30K on top of a $30K boat is just nuts. Woodsy
Woodsy,

Now you're finally talking some sense into this numb skull of mine. Not the issue of putting money into an inexpensive boat - it would cost even more to plunk extra money into a more expensive boat. But the issue of spending money to try to save money. :cards:

However, I thought that 650ft.lbs of torque to an Arneson would wake up a 28ZX => making it a single engine diesel performance boat! But I hear otherwise from other posters here. Cheaper even at $6/gallon and far less hassle if I stick with considerably less torque from the stock 454 or 502 and just pump gas more often. :chillpill

Less torque means smaller propping, and greater planing speeds. This in turn means higher fuel usage, unless I get a stepped hull as you recommend. High sea behavior will still be manageable if I can only learn to live with the stepped hull's wave pounding. :cussball:

I would jump at your recommendation of a 26ZX if only they didn't all seem to have a sink and console mounted between cuddy's bench seats and bunk. There will be 4 of us camping occasionally, and I had hoped the kids could sleep on the benches and stretch their legs onto the bunk. :stan:

Do you know if the bench seats on the 26ZX can be pulled out to form another bunk, like the bench seats on the 28ZXO? If so it is a no-brainer: buy a 26ZX which has the good version of the stepped hull. :happy_bi:

If not, I will have to find an early 28ZX without a sink but with the latest stepped hull. So I will need to find a way to visually differentiate between the 2 versions of the stepping. I have found a good many pictures of the latest version which I think I've seen on a 2000 28ZX (correct me if I'm wrong) but still need to find pictures of the former early version on 1997s and 1998s. Which version the 1999 28ZX may have had remains a mystery. Maybe either one if Donzi changed hull molds during the production year? :hyper:

Thanks again for your VERY helpful advice!

Richard

richardoren
03-08-2006, 05:29 AM
Here is a picture of the latest version of the Donzi stepped hull:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/richardoren/Franks26ZX.jpg

You've gotta know that it is the latest and greatest for 2 reasons: first it is a 26ZX, second it is Frank's own boat, and he would never settle for a squirly hull. :alligator

Now here is the challenge: finding a proper picture of an older ZX with the early stepped hull... the only ones I have seen just show a side view which looks identical to the more recent hulls. :(

Thanks for any clues to investigate this difference.

Rich

Woodsy
03-08-2006, 06:56 AM
Richard...

Unfortunately all boats are some sort of compromise...

They are all going to have the small cabin with the sink. I am pretty sure the sink was standard equipment. In any case, the 28ZX cabin does not have appreciably more room than the 26ZX, at least when it comes to sleeping 4 people anyway. No matter which one you settle on, two sleep in the cabin, one on the backseat, and one on the floor. They are not setup as overnight 4 place boats...

If you want a quick planing speed, at the sacrifice of top end, you can bolt on a Bravo 3 and play with gear ratios and props until you get the cruise speed/rpm and planing speed where you want it to be. The dual prop setup will be a pretty effecient way to go and not cost alot of $$. The stepped hull is more gas effecient at all speeds, but you really are talking about fractional increments in improvement.. maybe 1/gal hr difference at cruise.

Woodsy

richardoren
03-08-2006, 08:28 AM
Hi Woodsy,

I feel like a blind man being guided through a mountain pass, and you cannot imagine how much your insight is helping. From reading previous posts, I had thought that the fuel savings of a stepped hull would have been in the order of 20 to 30%. As it is within 10% this means that I should make sure to get the best boat with the best engine and drive, whether it is a stepped hull model or not. :crossfing

I don't mind sacrificing top speed, as it will cost more to run a 26ZX in Europe than a 33ZX in the States. However, my kids are young and would fit nicely with us in the cabin of a few of 1999 28ZXs as seen below:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/richardoren/199928ZXcuddy.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/richardoren/1999DONZI28ZXcuddy2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/richardoren/1999DONZI28ZXcuddy3.jpg

We may wind up with a bit of overlap, but for camping overnight once in a while it will work much better than with the sink and console. So I will try to find either a smooth hull 1996 or 1997 28ZX, or else one of the early stepped hulls which are squirrely at high speed, speeds which I won't be going with a large propped Bravo III. :boat:

Maybe, just maybe, there was an overlap period during which the 28ZX had the better stepped hull but hadn't been fitted yet with a standard sink inside? :boggled: If so, that's the ticket for me in single engine form. Then it will be a waiting game, for one to come to market.

Thanks other here, if you can cue me in on how to set apart the two versions of the stepped hull. I may ask the techs at Donzi Marine to hook into this thread and give us a head's up. :shades: :cool!:

THX

Richard

richardoren
03-08-2006, 12:43 PM
Oh... and by the way, this is the sort of thread that had me eyeing an Arneson conversion:
http://www.finishing.com/204/15.shtml

Finishing.com is a website for the metal finishing industry.

richardoren
03-10-2006, 02:11 AM
The broker for this 1999 28ZX replied in a very short time that the stepped hull of this boat is of the second generation. Any clue as to whether this is so?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/richardoren/1999Donzi28ZX12.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/richardoren/1999Donzi28ZX11.jpg

richardoren
03-10-2006, 02:03 PM
Well, after looking at a lot of pictures of hulls on 2000, 2001 and 2002 28ZXs, it does indeed seem to be a second generation stepped hull on a 1999! Here is a picture of a 2003 for comparison purposes:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/richardoren/2003Donzi28ZX1.jpg

However, I am wondering if it is seriously underpowered. Is this picture the boat at WOT with a 454? It sure doesn't look like it is getting much air... hopefully is it at cruise. :bawling:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/richardoren/1999Donzi28ZX13.jpg

What would you think a 1999 with a single 454 is worth? I'm thinking of making an offer now rather than waiting for rising interest rates to make it a buyer's market. It is a freshwater boat with around 300 hours on boat and engine.

Thanks,

Richard

fasttrucker
03-11-2006, 10:23 AM
40,000 to 45,000.?

The Hedgehog
03-11-2006, 10:55 AM
Well, after looking at a lot of pictures of hulls on 2000, 2001 and 2002 28ZXs, it does indeed seem to be a second generation stepped hull on a 1999! Here is a picture of a 2003 for comparison purposes:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/richardoren/2003Donzi28ZX1.jpg
However, I am wondering if it is seriously underpowered. Is this picture the boat at WOT with a 454? It sure doesn't look like it is getting much air... hopefully is it at cruise. :bawling:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/richardoren/1999Donzi28ZX13.jpg
What would you think a 1999 with a single 454 is worth? I'm thinking of making an offer now rather than waiting for rising interest rates to make it a buyer's market. It is a freshwater boat with around 300 hours on boat and engine.
Thanks,
Richard

They are probably thinking of a price in the range that FT mentioned. A 454 is too small for that boat so you should get a good deal. Maybe high 30's. If it is super clean then they would not want to go much less.

Enough of this. It is approaching 80 degrees. I am going to fire up the Big Green ZX!

richardoren
03-13-2006, 09:58 AM
40,000 to 45,000.?
Fasttrucker, he is asking $48,000 ... are YOU the mystery seller? ;) Too expensive for a 7-year old boat with a used up engine. How much did it cost NEW in 1999 with a 454? :propeller

They are probably thinking of a price in the range that FT mentioned. A 454 is too small for that boat so you should get a good deal. Maybe high 30's. If it is super clean then they would not want to go much less. Enough of this. It is approaching 80 degrees. I am going to fire up the Big Green ZX!

Hi Big Green, Hope you had a blast in your ZX! How is the IMCO shorty working? Let us know! :cool:

Here is what this seller said when I voiced concern over the power of his 454 possibly being a little short for so much boat:

"I don’t need to defend my boats looks, quality, performance, or anything else. Its an AWESOME boat inside and out... This boat does over 60mph with a single 454 MAG MPI and with a few performance upgrades could hit close to 70. I know enough about boats that if I really wanted to go fast and upgrade a boat to handle it, it was this one. If you want to deal with (2) engines and (2) outdrives just to get 5 more MPH that that is your preference. I have reviewed EVERY 28ZX on the market so I’m not sure what you are talking about unless you are going down to 1998 which in that case your getting Donzi that has MANY differences than mine."

Prior, I was thinking of making a starting offer of $35k, but prefer not to deal with the guy who obviously is still in love with it: I won't be the cause of his divorce. Plus its engine already has 300 hours of lugging logged, and once rebuilt will have to run at gas-guzzling engine-grinding higher rpms. Better to wait for a single 502 or better yet, a custom 500 Bulldog. :cool: Just dreamin'. But if more 1999 singles don't come to market this spring, at realistic prices, I will forever give up on the stepped hull and buy a clean smooth hulled ZX. It is becoming too much hassle dealing with used boat sellers peddling boat loads of baloney: "The Ferrari of sports boats!" "Incredibly FAST and the King of Cool!" "You're sure to turn heads with this one!" "Call quick, it won't last long at this price!" (ad still there 18 months later)

The ZX series are indeed fine boats, and they pack a bundle of performance too. But I will have to hire a buyer's broker to cut through all the bull - tough cookies for selling brokers who will lose half of their commission due to their own obnoxious sales tactics.

So far, the cheapest second generation stepped hull boat I have found is roughly double the price of a clean smooth hulled ZX. Not really worth the price in my book, even if the sellers are convinced they are giving them away. :toiletpap