Older Donzi Problems???

[richardoren]

Hi Guys,

I am looking into a 1996 Donzi 28ZX and wondered what the main problems are of this early model?

Some in this forum have mentioned that during the years of OMC ownership hull construction was less than perfect, causing serious problems. What are the issues, how can one detect them, and can they be fixed?!?

Thanks in advance,

Richard

[FISHIN SUCKS]

Show N Go H2O has a 28ZX, but not sure what year. His is for sale (beautiful boat and tricked out) but only because he wants a bigger one. He would be a good one to ask. You shouldn't have to worry about the OMC days on the one you are looking at, those were over in 1994. Good Luck Richard,
tom

[richardoren]

Thanks for reassuring me Tom - but why then did I hear that the hull of the ZX was better from 2000 on? Did its design need to have some tweaking done for better seaworthiness?

TIA.

Richard

[Schnook]

I have a 96 27zx, and I'm fairly new here, too. From what I've been able to glean, I think there were some issues with the early step hull design that had to be engineered out. You shouldn't have to worry about that with a '96, I don't think they had offered step hulls yet. I hope I get corrected if I'm mistaken about this info, but that's my .02.

p.s. I've also heard that non-step hulls were better in rough water than steps, but that may be a matter of opinion.

[RedDog]

...Some in this forum have mentioned that during the years of OMC ownership hull construction was less than perfect, causing serious problems...

I think all of the talk about inferior OMC hulls and drives is nothing more than an urban myth that just keeps being repeated over and over until everyone thinks it is fact. I have yet to hear an owner or past owner of OMC vintage* express concern. I know the '90 OMC drive 18 I had was first cklass quality.

that is Donzi OMC editions - maybe the concerns stem from OMC Bayliners

[olredalert]

--------I was about to say just what you said, Matty. Made me chuckle a bit as so many of us have really oooooold DONZIs. Have the boat professionally surveyed, Richardoren, and if it comes out OK and you like it, buy it. You wont regret it. After that one and a bit of time on this board you may find yourself pining for an even older one...........Bill S

[jdsdls]

In my opion I think an OMC donzi was built fine just could not get a Mercury in it. I would be worred about an 86-87 just before they were sold. I had an 86 Donzi that went back to the factory and hopefully right to the crusher.

[Dredgeking]

a 96 is not an older donzi ;) and any boat even a 2005 can be beat have it checked out


i was thinking the same thing. funny how the age of a boat is relative.

[richardoren]

I have a 96 27zx, and I'm fairly new here, too. From what I've been able to glean, I think there were some issues with the early step hull design that had to be engineered out. You shouldn't have to worry about that with a '96, I don't think they had offered step hulls yet. I hope I get corrected if I'm mistaken about this info, but that's my .02.
p.s. I've also heard that non-step hulls were better in rough water than steps, but that may be a matter of opinion.
Hiya,

Great knowledge base here, you guys rock!

I was looking hard for a stepped hull 28ZX as I had thought that it would handle rough water better - was I completely clueless?!?

The 28ZX I am looking at seems a lot like the 27ZX unit which I have seen in ad photos. What difference is there if any - is it only a slightly smaller cubby?

I am taking your advice and scheduling a pre-purchase survey. Do you know of any reliable (PRO+) boat surveyors in the Greater Miami Area?

And what is a reasonable offer to make for a weathered salt water 1996 28ZX with ?/hours single 502 and needing upholstery plus miscellaneous cosmetics?

Thanks for any suggestions - I am a newbie but may become a full-fledged Donzi.net member yet. :cool:

Richard

[BUIZILLA]

Go on the Offshoreonly.com site and find Ed Cozzi.

I have sent him several survey deals, and he's been great to work with, he knows his stuff.

Jim

[richardoren]

Go on the Offshoreonly.com site and find Ed Cozzi.
I have sent him several survey deals, and he's been great to work with, he knows his stuff.
Jim
Thanks for the lead, Jim. I will try to get in touch with Ed. I want to hire somebody who knows Donzis and not some kind of sailboat rigging specialist. ;)

Otherwise, I still need to make up my mind on buying it with its non-stepped hull. I found this post in another thread, and it makes me conclude that, aside from the need for greater skill/caution at the helm due to spin-out risks, a stepped hull will cut through high waves while a non-stepped hull will bounce up and down on them? Here's that post:

my 28zx is the first boat ive had with a stepped hull.iam very impressed with it.now iam spoiled and whouldnt want to go back.my freinds sonic with its deep v.porposes bad.up+down,up+down.spining out does not worry me,but ive had the chime walking...where the boat goes side to side.i just slowdown,change the trim .whatever, then go back to full power.it took me by suprise at first but i figured it out after a few weeks.a new boater without experience could mess up. :rolleyes:
Also, some posters say that a stepped hull gives better fuel economy by keeping the boat out of the water. Isn't this mostly true for WOT and not the case at cruising speeds? Others, like Schnook in this thread, seem to think that a non-stepped hull will give a smoother ride in heavy seas. Is this the case, and does it come at the expense of fuel-economy and performance?

I know this is quite a barrage of questions, but I need to quickly decide if I plunk down a deposit and pay for a survey.

Thanks for giving it your best shot. :)

Richard

[The Hedgehog]

Hiya,
Great knowledge base here, you guys rock!
I was looking hard for a stepped hull 28ZX as I had thought that it would handle rough water better - was I completely clueless?!?
The 28ZX I am looking at seems a lot like the 27ZX unit which I have seen in ad photos. What difference is there if any - is it only a slightly smaller cubby?
I am taking your advice and scheduling a pre-purchase survey. Do you know of any reliable (PRO+) boat surveyors in the Greater Miami Area?
And what is a reasonable offer to make for a weathered salt water 1996 28ZX with ?/hours single 502 and needing upholstery plus miscellaneous cosmetics?
Thanks for any suggestions - I am a newbie but may become a full-fledged Donzi.net member yet. :cool:
Richard

I responded to your pm. I hope that it helped. I have now found your post. I doubt the cabin is any smaller at all. Yes, get a survey. It is worth it. They should give you guidance on pricing. When it comes to rough water, both stepped and non-step do well. The non-step rides with the bow higher so it should be a little drier. I also think that it has a little more deadrise. They will both handle rough water better than the comparable sized competition from Velocity and Fountain. My non-step really wakes up in rough water. Additional Hp also helps a good bit. If you plan to run in the salt water you will be happy with the choice to go Donzi.

Good luck with your choice.

[Schnook]

To answer your questions about step vs non-step, test drive each and see what works for you. A lot of performance/handling questions depend on personal preference, but I don't think you'll be disappointed either way. BTW, was the 28ZX available in 1996? Thought it didn't come out til 98.

[richardoren]

Hi Schnook,

I think you are right, it sounds like the seller is either very misinformed, or is trying to market it upwards by calling it a 28ZX? I did get tricked at first thinking it would have a stepped hull - what make the difference between Donzi 27ZX and the 28ZX? It sure as heck looks identical (other than the windscreen) to this 1996 27ZX which happens to also be for sale at this date:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/richardoren/1996Donzi27ZX.jpg
Here is a picture of the cockpit of the unit I am looking at:
http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/4/2/2/6/1422601_5.jpg
And one of its exterior:
http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/4/2/2/6/1422601_1.jpg
You can see that it sure looks a heck of a lot like the first picture which is officially for sale as a 27ZX. I am even wondering if it isn't might be a disguised Salvage 27ZX camouflaged behind a clean 28ZX title? What do you vote: is it a 28ZX or a 27ZX? Thanks for any opinions you may voice. My brother is checking it out this afternoon, and I would like to know more before hiring Ed to survey it.

Thanks again!

Richard
PS. BigGreen, half a day later I still haven't received your PM, are you sure it got sent? TIA.

[The Hedgehog]

The American Holdings model listing shows a 28ZX non-step in 1996. I guess they called it a 27ZX in later 96 and 97. The step 27 came out in mid 97. Last Real Texan's 27ZX step is about 3 vin numbers off mine. In 1998 they moved the first step back some, made a few subtle changed and called it the 28ZX. I believe more changes were made to the hull in 2000. I think that they also moved the cockpit at that point. As far as I know the length has never actually changed. I put a new 28ZX towing cover on my 27ZX and it fit like a glove.

The 27ZX step-hull was the only Donzi campaigned in F-1 racing in recent history. The boat, Damn Donzi, ran really fast with a 500hp. I am thinking low 80's. It was stripped down and really light. I heard that it was a handfull with lots of chinewalking.

Last Real Texan has a few projects going on with his stepped 27ZX. He runs 72 with a 500EFI. He has installed hydraulic steering and his IMCO shorty should be done next week. It will be good to see what the net effect will be. If the shorty works out he should a few mph. Some better heads and a reprogram and he will be moving pretty good. We will see if the shorty-steering combo combats the chine walk.

I recently saw a post from someone on OSO that claims they had a stripped down 27ZX non-step. He said it had no cabin and weighed around 4500 lbs. He said he ran with some kind of crazy high x-dimension and got high 70's. I am currently trying to get more of his story.

I have a procharged 27ZX non-step. I am still getting it dialed in. The lab finished Bravo I 26 from Throttle-up should bring me across the 70 mark. I will try the Shorty for good measure. I think it will have a hard time carrying the bow but it is worth a try. Some straight v's like Panteras like them and some (Baja's) hate them. If I pick up a couple of mph, I will get one as well.

Fasttrucker has a 28ZX with a built up 502. I think he is a later hull design. He should be pulling 530-550 hp with his combo. He is seeing mid 70's gps and maybe more on a cold day. He is getting the hull blueprinted this year for more speed. It will be interesting to see the results.

[fasttrucker]

Hello,I was watching "performance boat t.v." the other day on dish network.I dvr all of them.And they were talking about stepped hulls.Stepped hulls do not reguire you to trim up the drive like on a non-steppped hull.So you are not fighting the boat drive/ bow lift .It was cool to see my old post.If you go with a stepped-hull you gain free speed and better fuel economy.Check the bottom of the hull for a hook,:mad: good luck!:crossfing .Also I like my 1998 model It has a higher deck,inside I can sit in the facing chairs with out hitting my head on the roof.:lookaroun The newer model deck is lower and Iam 6-feet tall.Also I have more room from the front to the back bench seat.Thats where I keep a cooler full of beer.You also should check for a front bilge pump the newer models have them.Iam puttting one in this year.:smash: It seems that water will not flow to the back when sitting because of a hump.Last thing,I have a high performance single custom engine about 550hp,It sits lower in the center of the boat then the twin small block set-up.Which sits side by side.This boat really needs at least 500hp to make it come alive.:checkered

[richardoren]

Hi Fastrucker,

Thanks for the extra info. I realize that a stepped hull provides more air time and less fuel consumption, not to mention higher top speed. This is why I was looking to buy a 28ZX rather than an earlier non-stepped hull. However, their pricing isn't in the same ballpark.

I realize that these boats need power, but I also want fuel economy so that I don't have to crimp my style, minimize boating time or suffer too much at the end of the month. So it has to be a single engine, for fuel economy purposes, too bad for the lesser handling at dock or in high seas. Also it must be a single engine because swapping one engine and one drive will already cost me a bundle.

To explain why I must keep to a minimum the cost of the boat, by buying an older single engine 27ZX or 28ZX, You may remember my old thread about repowering a 28ZX. It ended with a plan, that of swapping its 502/Bravo for a Marinized 650lb-ft torque Duramax LBZ TurboDiesel mated to an Arneson ADS6 Direct Drive Conversion Kit. That ought to wake it up while gently sipping diesel fuel at low rpms.

So far, you are the only one who is "sold" on the stepped hull design versus the smooth hull. I understand that it will handle like a different beast, but I will be mostly doing family outings and don't really want the wife and kids to take a pounding slamming from wave crest to wave crest. Won't the traditional hull design give a smoother ride in high seas? It will be ocean only, with rapidly changing weather and high winds. Is that what a stepped hull is really cut out for?

Richard

[Schnook]

Richard,
The advantages of a step hull comes in getting on plane much quicker than a non-step, and at speed the step acts like a leading edge, which helps to reduce water's suction effect (drag) on the hull. A disadvantage of this leading edge being farther back is the boat effectively has a shorter hull. Big power+short hull=handle w/care, there are threads here on how to handle 22ZX's in high speed turns. That being said, let me stress that these are things I've read in other threads and on other sites. I have a non-step so this is not personal experience talking. Verify this with the step hull guys. As for the model#, make the surveyor aware of any concerns you have and be sure you're comfortable with the answers you get. Oh yeah, one more advantage of the step hull is the high Cool-O-Meter factor :biggrin: Good Luck!

[The Hedgehog]

I noticed that the boat does not have bolster seats. I would certainly want some of those. Especially for bouncing around in rough seas.

I am a fan of the step hull as well. I would have bought one but when I was looking the price differential was a bit much. I think that gap has narrowed (at least on the 27's).

That is some interesting commentary from FT on the cabin height. I learn something everyday. He is also right on the 500hp. It takes some power to get these boats going. Especially the non-step.

I will look to see what happend to the PM.

As far as the hulls, I will bet the two that you are showing are identical to mine. It costs a bunch to re-tool the hulls. It usually only happens for a good reason.

If you really want to know if they had a 28 non-stepped ZX in 1996 (and if this is one) then get the vin and call Donzi. Heck give me the vin and I will do it. I really want to know now. Please keep us in the loop.

[Schnook]

You're right about the bolsters. Mine doesn't have them either, and it's a pain in the you know what. I have a friend who rebuilds ejection seats for people who own their own single engine jets (surprisingly there are more out there than you'd think), he's going to take a shot at making some drop downs for me.

[richardoren]

Hi,

Here is a photo of Ed who kindly checked out the boat on short notice. I haven't spoken with him since, but his expression is in itself eloquent...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/richardoren/Donzi014.jpg

You will notice that he is eyeing what looks to a newbie like me to be a huge patched hole in the hull possibly due to sinking at dock during a hurricane. My brother thinks it might be just a little scrape that was repainted with a wide overspray in a poorly matching color. Actually it is probably an older repair job, with properly matching paint but with a different chemical composition which didn't fade like the factory paint which got very very pale indeed.

I haven't yet spoken with Ed about what he thinks - maybe the paint isn't faded, just the clear gelcoat over the paint causing it to look pale? If so it would be a cinch to refinish the surface and recover its original bright yellow shine. But you'll probably say I'm dreaming.

What do you guys think caused such damage?

Cheers,

Richard

[richardoren]

Well... after thinking it over for 24 hours... I'm going to pass on a x?x?x? boat. I am not going to repower a hull which has issues.

So I am now looking at two options:
- another fresher non-stepped hull 27ZX
- a nice stepped hull 26ZX

They are both in the same price range and each has nice options and single MPI 502s. What is the difference between these two other than the hull? A few inches less fiberglass behind the sunbed? A shorter cockpit? A smaller cubby?

Thanks for clueing me in, they sure look the same in photos.

Cheers,

Richard

[richardoren]

Spoke with Ed, and although the hull condition doesn't seem too bad at first glance, we are looking at ten to fifteen thousand worth of cosmetic restoration with a repaint and full upholstery. That is, unless it is just the clear gelcoat which got salted and needs a wet sanding to become bright yellow again? ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/richardoren/1996Donzi28ZXportside.jpg

This makes the low asking price seem to be less of a good deal, especially as its engine isn't running. Maybe the next one will be the right one? :cool:

[The Hedgehog]

That seems kind of high. You could have the hull painted for $3-4K in awlgrip. It might cost more if you wanted to redo some detailed graphics. I did not get a good look at the top deck but it could probably be wetsanded.
I am not sure on the interior but I am sure that someone around here could give you some feedback. You will want to go with bolster seats. It is pretty easy to figure that one. Unless it is a real dog, I would think that you could do a pretty good job for $8k all in.
I don't know about the engine.
That being said. You would still need to get a pretty good deal on the boat. Cleaner boats are out there.

[richardoren]

Hiya Big Green,

Thanks for dialing in some lower numbers for the paint job, when can you get your spray gun ready? :uzi:

I was using that guesstimate to figure out what it would take to reverse time. Of course I could always respray the bright patch pale yellow, and keep costs down. It would be the first pastel Donzie around. :jestera:

Meanwhile I am eyeing some other boats for sale, a traditional hull 27zx and a stepped hull 26zx. If I haven't bought a boat by then, I will take a look at this one when I head to Florida next month, maybe then he will be in more of a selling mood. :crossfing

If any of you know what is different between the 26/27/28 foot Donzis, thanks for posting your comments in the other thread: :boggled:
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=43884

Thx

Richard

[richardoren]

In case you guys are interested in following the rest of the debate, it has moved over here in the other forum:
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=43884

See ya there! :beer:

Rich