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View Full Version : Single lever "vs Dual lever



MOP
01-27-2006, 08:31 AM
Never having done this and having no reference about how to do a poll here goes.

I am old enough to remember the time before single lever controls were available! The manufacturers came up with single lever to eliminate the possibilty of blowing the transmissions, outdrives in our boats along with the other hazards the dual dual levers posed. It kind of amazes me why there is a new facination with the out dated and out right dangerous dual lever setups.

What are your thought?

joel3078
01-27-2006, 10:16 AM
Assuming you mean one control handle is the transmission and the other is the throttle of course. It's tradition and has a high cool neato factor. Kinda like a suicide shifter on a Harley and a Hurst shifter on a old '60 gofast car. It's an image thing. Also note that the old retro stuff is coming back. Mustang, GTO, Charger, Challenger, Camaro, Miami Vice, etc. We all wanna hold onto the fun parts of our youth!

gold-n-rod
01-27-2006, 10:31 AM
What Joel said!!!

The first mod I did after purchasing my '95 Trans Am Convertible w/6 speed was to yank the factory shifter and install a chrome Hurst stick with a white knob!!!

:wavey:

Morgan's Cloud
01-27-2006, 11:41 AM
I did my 'apprenticeship' on a boat with the old dual lever controls.
I was ever so glad to get 'my hands on' single lever stuff when I finally did.

I must admit though that it seems appropriate to have dual lever controlls on large twin engine inboards.. you know.. standing on the flying bridge facing rearwards down into the cockpit , flawlessly backing into your slip without touching the throttles ... :)

joel3078
01-27-2006, 01:58 PM
What Joel said!!!
The first mod I did after purchasing my '95 Trans Am Convertible w/6 speed was to yank the factory shifter and install a chrome Hurst stick with a white knob!!!
:wavey:

I'll never grow up. I yanked the shift knob off my '03 Dodge pickup and put an 8-ball knob on it!

Chili 18
01-27-2006, 04:21 PM
I think with twins, its a functional advantage. For a single, bling bling.

Cuda
01-27-2006, 05:40 PM
I like the twin levers. I had both in my Formula. I didn't like the single stick (twin engines, one stick per engine), for the fact that with the transmission, it takes a split second to go in gear. Sometimes I would think I hadn't moved the stick far enough to get the gear, and the next thing you knew I was applying throttle!:eek: :banghead:

Also, my engines don't run the exact same rpm with the throttles in the same position, I'd have to cock them a bit, believe me, by the end of a poker run my hand was worn out. :(

Cuda
01-27-2006, 05:46 PM
I was thinking just the other day, that my Minx is the only singe engine Donzi I could think of that has two sticks. Of course, with the CLUNK from the Alpha, you don't have to guess if it's in gear.

joseph m. hahnl
01-27-2006, 06:03 PM
Never having done this and having no reference about how to do a poll here goes.
I am old enough to remember the time before single lever controls were available! The manufacturers came up with single lever to eliminate the possibilty of blowing the transmissions, outdrives in our boats along with the other hazards the dual dual levers posed. It kind of amazes me why there is a new facination with the out dated and out right dangerous dual lever setups.
What are your thought?

73 boston whaler with Johnson 40/ Shipmaster with duel stick. it now has a 87 VRO 50 with the single stick. I like the single way better. But One time I let my son drive and he pulled the throttle all the way back and into neutral at speed.
The motor ran away. I had to pull the cover of the engine and choke out the carb to stall it. The fly wheel right there so you have to be pretty careful not to catch your knuckles.

the minx has single and i would'nt change it for all the tea in that place where the cheesy parts are made:smash:



joe

JimG
01-28-2006, 06:03 AM
Duals all the way. But I do like my single in the Donzi, only because it shifts so smooth...

Dalelama
01-28-2006, 07:43 AM
I know of ANOTHER Minx w/ dual controls.

I feel it's easier for docking... and with the shortie shifter, almost impossible to go in gear by mistake.... we set the throttle lever so it lays back almost flat so ya cant over-rev out of gear by mistake either!

Chili 18
01-28-2006, 01:45 PM
I know of ANOTHER Minx w/ dual controls.
I feel it's easier for docking... and with the shortie shifter, almost impossible to go in gear by mistake.... we set the throttle lever so it lays back almost flat so ya cant over-rev out of gear by mistake either!

I like how the Minx has the pad to mount dual controls. Thought about it in my 2+3 but dont like the add on "pod" which they sell to mount them on.

David Hartmann
01-29-2006, 04:45 PM
I have had the original Mores control the the Merc control that were the single lever type. I had these on an engine that was a bit tempermental and I never liked that quick back and forth through to keep the negine running on a bad day.

I went to a Livorsi dual lever control when I redid the controls and engine. I switched primarly for feel. I wanted the the engine to respond to movement of the thottle. I never had this work as well as I thought it should. I am sure a good single lever could be just as good.

I know one thing for sure. You need to get used to docking a dual lever if you were only experianced on a single.

I have made that mistake of hitting the wrong lever first.

FYI a New Bravo seems to be ok with shifiting into gear at 3000rpm.

It would be great if there was some protection from my own stupidity

tamburello
01-30-2006, 11:45 AM
I put dual lever Gafrig controls in my 18 Classic. I had a new cockpit side panel made with a box for the controls. I've been very happy with them and have thus far avoided any inadvertant shifts, especially at 3,000 RPM. :biggrin.:

- Jeff

Chili 18
01-30-2006, 12:20 PM
I put dual lever Gafrig controls in my 18 Classic. I had a new cockpit side panel made with a box for the controls. I've been very happy with them and have thus far avoided any inadvertant shifts, especially at 3,000 RPM. :biggrin.:
- Jeff
Could you post a photo of the instalation? Would like to see your mounting solution...

tamburello
01-30-2006, 01:21 PM
Chili -

I'm just up the coast from you in Holland. Here are some pics.
http://www.donzi.net/photos/jeffdykema-09.jpg
http://www.donzi.net/photos/jeffdykema-12.jpg
http://www.donzi.net/photos/jeffdykema-11.jpg

- Jeff

Chili 18
01-30-2006, 01:55 PM
Sweet!!!:chilipepp

roadtrip se
01-31-2006, 01:12 PM
Probably just the Livorsi sticks I've used in the past, but throttling with a set of these is a lot easier than the Mercury single stick, sledge hammer I have now for a control. After a vigorous day on choppy water, I feel like carpel tunnel is setting in!

Rootsy
02-22-2006, 07:03 AM
Probably just the Livorsi sticks I've used in the past, but throttling with a set of these is a lot easier than the Mercury single stick, sledge hammer I have now for a control. After a vigorous day on choppy water, I feel like carpel tunnel is setting in!

i hate the merc single lever controls so GD much that i have an old morse i was going to put in the 16... :smash: merc singles are NOT conducive to performance boating where you need to be on and off the gas... :rolleyes:

Greg K
02-22-2006, 07:54 AM
Here is gunwale mounted dual lever setup.
Link to website (http://www.incontrolequipment.com/products.asp?ProdID=15)

sue
02-22-2006, 08:02 AM
I have had & run many boats in my life. If you are running a boat with twin inboards, dual levers is much better & easier. I prefer the single lever on all other boats. I have a 27 Grady with Twin 200HP OB's with single lever. It is much easier for me with the single levers. The only problem with the single lever is that you really have to get to know the boat so you get the feel of when it is in gear & how touchy the control is. I have gotton in someone elses boat & as soon as I put the boat in forward, the boat started to take off. I feel that once you have the feel for the single lever, it is the best, but every boat's controls have a different response & you must have the experience & also know the boat & how it reacts. Sue

Carl C
02-22-2006, 08:15 AM
I do not like the cheap add-on look of the stock single Mercruiser control on my 22. Single or dual lever, I would like to see a nice billet shifter/throttle built into the boat. I voted for dual controls. A single lever is not foolproof either. Ask anyone who has shifted into reverse while still moving forward.

Schnook
02-22-2006, 08:30 AM
I voted dual but am happy that I have any levers at all.
BTW, shifting out of gear at rpm is still on my list of "Bonehead things to do at the dock", but I'm sure I'll get to it sooner or later!

blackhawk
02-23-2006, 09:46 PM
I'm lost! How is a single lever control safer than a dual lever setup? :confused: I would think the opposite since the shifting mechanism and the throttle are both on a single lever.

I would much rather have a dual lever set-up, especially in the big water when you're in and out of the throttle often.

BUIZILLA
02-24-2006, 06:26 AM
twin levers are for those who don't know where fwd and rev are.... :cistineb:

JH

Dr. Dan
02-24-2006, 06:30 AM
:beer:
twin levers are for those who don't know where fwd and rev are.... :cistineb:
JH

:beer: :beer: :beer: :spongebob

blackhawk
02-24-2006, 11:18 AM
twin levers are for those who don't know where fwd and rev are.... :cistineb:
JH

And single controls are for the guys that head in when the waves get bigger than 1 foot! :O :D ;)

My new boat has twin levers, and the throttle is as smooth as butter. A nice linear throw, no effort needed and stays where you leave it. Plus with the padded housing you can rest your elbow on it for even more control in the rough.

The single control I had on my Blackhawk was a POS when you got into bigger water and actually had to throttle the boat. Stiff throttle, no where to rest your elbow, very short throw between idle and WFO. Didn't belong on a performance boat, belonged on a fishing or family boat only IMO! :D

joseph m. hahnl
02-26-2006, 01:01 PM
I'm lost! How is a single lever control safer than a dual lever setup? :confused: I would think the opposite since the shifting mechanism and the throttle are both on a single lever.
I would much rather have a dual lever set-up, especially in the big water when you're in and out of the throttle often.


I would think common sense would be applied here? in an emergency it would be easier to throttle back and reverse in a collision senerio. Than to throttle down take your hand off the throttle lever grab the shift lever put it in reverse.Take your hand of the shift lever and go back to throttle up!


The other thing: especially for the old 2 strokes as i said earlier, is a run away motor. I had way more running away with the duel stick 40 then thesingle stick 50. if you over reved it in neutral you then had to bang it in gear.
"WOW remember those days that really takes me back" to get her to come back "Hope every one was sitting down". the only time i ever had the single run away was coming of plane into neutral.I would have to let here idle a moment in gear before shifting into neutral.


Now dont get me wrong here: you like what you like, blond, brunette ,red head.it only matters what you prefer. There is no right or wrong answer



joe

MOP
02-26-2006, 01:56 PM
I can more then understand both sides, when they first starting showing up on the market the safety issue was more then highly touted. Now a days you can take a DDeck at WOT and jam it into reverse, the computer slows the diesels down and then completes the shift and re applies throttle. New gas engines also have rev limiters so full throttle in neutral may not be good but will not blow them up. In a panic situation quite a few have grabbed the shift instead of the throttle slammed it full back with disastrous results. I can attest to a lot less gear case/transmission repairs in our shop, Many would panic after hitting the throttle and just dump them into gear which lead to permanent neutral. For what I call sporty type driving I much prefer single. I do like dual lever when I operate larger MY's & SF's I like the dual lever, most of the time when docking stern first I put my back to the helm and have one shifter in each hand. Remember we are all human and prone to screw up somewhere along the line, single lever definitely takes the sweat out of blowing you expensive toy.

Phil

blackhawk
02-28-2006, 07:18 PM
Again, I would think it would be easier to pull back too far on a single lever and hit reverse than to "grab the wrong lever"? In WFO situations in my Blackhawk and Unlimited my hand NEVER left the throttle handle. Now that I have another boat with trim tabs I am seriously considering once again putting trim tab controls in the throttle handle. But before I do I'll probably get some seat time. I am hoping that I will need very few tab adjustments on the new boat once I am dialed in. But, even if I do have to adjust the tabs on occasion, I can't see me grabbing the wrong handle? Different height, shape and size. But, I had better knock on wood in case I am wrong! :D

boatnut
03-03-2006, 10:01 AM
I would vote for the single control in these single eng classics however I find the dual offers the advantage that the throttle only control seems to have a finer touch and can be adjusted more quickly and accurately. As another variant, in my '67 Donzi 18' triple hatch (since sold) I had a foot throttle and the morse was only used to shift. It actually was real nice but occasionally in a rough chop it was hard to hold a constant throttle level, this neccesitated holding the throttle down to the floor until smoother water was reached -- which is the way an 18 should be driven anyway -- when in doubt, gas it.

Carl C
03-03-2006, 10:13 AM
I would vote for the single control in these single eng classics however I find the dual offers the advantage that the throttle only control seems to have a finer touch and can be adjusted more quickly and accurately. As another variant, in my '67 Donzi 18' triple hatch (since sold) I had a foot throttle and the morse was only used to shift. It actually was real nice but occasionally in a rough chop it was hard to hold a constant throttle level, this neccesitated holding the throttle down to the floor until smoother water was reached -- which is the way an 18 should be driven anyway -- when in doubt, gas it. Foot throttles work great on hi-po outboards where both hands should be kept on the wheel but I can't imagine one on my 22C

boatnut
03-03-2006, 10:36 AM
Chili -
I'm just up the coast from you in Holland. Here are some pics.
http://www.donzi.net/photos/jeffdykema-11.jpg
- Jeff
Wow Jeff, are you playing with us or do you really strap yourself into this seat? Is it a boat seat? It seems if you ever flipped at speed you and the seat would be the braking system for the forward momentum of the entire boat. Not trying to be critical, I've just never seen anything like that. Ed

boatnut
03-03-2006, 11:22 AM
Jeff, I have learned more about the situation and I apolgize for the poorly stated question/comments. It is a beautiful boat. Ed

Carl C
03-03-2006, 11:26 AM
Jeff, I have learned more about the situation and I apolgize for the poorly stated question/comments. It is a beautiful boat. Ed Ditto. I am so sorry if I offended you. It's great to see that you have found a way to continue boating.:smile:

2biguns
03-03-2006, 01:32 PM
Both my Donzis had dual levers (1988 Z-25 followed by 1987 Z-29). Once you get over the mind block against pushing the throttle forward to go faster in reverse, it's a breeze.
Our Formula has 2 single sticks and I hate them but after taking to Robert Nelems about upgrading to duals, I'll stay with what I've got.
The greatest thing about dual levers are the notches in the throttle. To go faster, ease the stick(s) forward a click. Just can't beat it.

blackhawk
03-03-2006, 02:56 PM
Foot throttles work great on hi-po outboards where both hands should be kept on the wheel but I can't imagine one on my 22C

I agree I said this on another thread as well. When I was in the rough stuff with the Blackhawk or the Unlimited I would brace myself with my feet. No way to have throttle control with a foot throttle in that stuff!

blackhawk
03-03-2006, 03:10 PM
Jeff, I have learned more about the situation and I apolgize for the poorly stated question/comments. It is a beautiful boat. Ed

Okay, Jeff since I don't know your situation I have to ask. I assume you are a paraplegic? I apoligize for my lack of political correctness in advance but I'm asking because I have a good friend that is a paraplegic and still boats and snowmobiles.

tamburello
03-04-2006, 10:51 PM
Boatnut Ed & Carl C, thanks for the appologies but they were unnecessary. It takes a lot more than that to offend me :biggrin:

Scott, I'm glad you asked. I'm actually a quadriplegic. I broke my neck at the C4-5 level when I ran into lake Michigan, dove into a wave, and went head on into a sandbar. Thankfully, I only bruised my spinal cord and didn't sever it so I retained sensation of touch and my arms and left hand work pretty well and my right hand works good enough to run the throttle. I can even move my legs a bit.

The key component to making my rig work is the seat. I have the vertical stability of a wet noodle so I installed the MOMO racing seat to give me the lateral stability that I need. The cloth upholstery and narrow thigh bolsters hold me fairly tight but I was still sliding forward too much on the bumpy days, so the four point harness was necessary to keep me in place. I'm the last one that wants to end up trapped in my seat, so in addition to trying to drive as carefully as possible I have made sure that I can release the seat belt quickly.

If you want to read more about my modifications and see some pics of how I get into the boat check out this post:

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=113&highlight=maiden+voyage

Scott did you get a Pantera? You got any pics of it?

I hope to see you all out on the water, once it melts that is.:umbrella:
- Jeff

Carl C
03-05-2006, 06:47 AM
Very touching story, Jeff. Actually made my eyes water. I read the whole thread. We're both in Michigan and I'd be honored to meet you at a gathering this summer.

roadtrip se
03-05-2006, 09:57 AM
is that he will run right by you at a rally. He runs a mean Donzi, so stay out of his way if you are out for a Sunday cruise.

I have a step Dad in a chair after mutliple back surgeries and endless rehab.
As Jeff knows, I have used his story many times as an inspiration to my Dad on how NOT to let a handicap get in the way of life.

Carl, I believe Jeff and crew are confirmed for AOTH, come on down and meet him for yourself. Just don't hand the man a Budweiser when you meet him, there are better beers to be shared by MADCOWs made in Michigan!

boatnut
03-05-2006, 11:18 AM
Boatnut Ed & Carl C, thanks for the appologies but they were unnecessary. - Jeff
Thank you Jeff, but I think my apology was necessary. There is an old slogan that goes something like "engage your brain before putting your mouth in gear" --- and I think I proved it applies even more to keyboards. I should have realized there was a very good reason for your inovative seat design prior to typing out some quick questions. Thanks also for sharing your story, you are a very impressive person and I am sure you are very proud of that(plus your Donzi is likely faster than mine). Ed

blackhawk
03-05-2006, 01:08 PM
Jeff, that is awesome that you are still out there doing what you love! My friend is the same way. He was severed about 1/3 up his back form a dirt bike accident and is still a wildman!

And yes, I did get a Pantera! :D:D:D

Carl C
03-05-2006, 06:36 PM
is that he will run right by you at a rally. He runs a mean Donzi, so stay out of his way, I believe Jeff and crew are confirmed for AOTH That remains to be seen!! I'd love to make AOTH but don't think I can swing it this year. Maybe, though.

tamburello
03-05-2006, 07:09 PM
Carl, I'll be at AOTH again this year. It's an awesome time on the water and you won't find a better group of people to hang out with. I hope to meet you there or at one of the unofficial MADCOW gatherings.

Scott, that Pantera is awesome! What's under the hatch?:eek!:

- Jeff

blackhawk
03-05-2006, 07:21 PM
Carl, I'll be at AOTH again this year. It's an awesome time on the water and you won't find a better group of people to hang out with. I hope to meet you there or at one of the unofficial MADCOW gatherings.
Scott, that Pantera is awesome! What's under the hatch?:eek!:
- Jeff

Thanks! Stock 502 Mag - for now! :D

LuauLounge
05-01-2011, 10:48 AM
The singles were fine, until they put the interlock on them to move from N to F or R. It became a pain to dock.

silverghost
05-09-2011, 07:41 PM
Those newer single Morse neutral safety interlocks are easily defeated or can be removed entirely; if you so desire to do so .