Canada v. the United States [Archive]

SideshowRob

01-11-2006, 04:15 PM

Alright, I'll give this a shot.
First off, I think someone would have to have lived in both countries to offer a true informed opinion. I also think that both countries have their share of good points and bad.
Here we go, our medical system... it is getting less and less free, but I think we take what we do have for granted. If I have to go to the E.R. with a broken arm, I leave there in a cast without worrying about how it's getting paid for. This is something we've come to know. We pay higher taxes for it, yet services are dwindling. I am not sure what individual health care costs someone in the U.S. However I think we come out on top there. I'll try geography now, I have travelled in the states, not extensively though, and there is definately a lot to like (Arizona, Montana, I actually even liked Wisconsin :eek: ) U.S. has the warmer climate states, which we lack. I have travelled extensively in Canada and love the diversity (much like the U.S.) but I think what I like most is the lack of people, yes we overpopulated centres, but we have so much uninhabited or slightly inhabited land. However due to the warm climate factor, I'll call this a draw.
Politics and war is a touchy subject, so keep an open mind. George Bush... reminds me a little of a slightly slow spoiled rich kid. Don't worry, I don't like the powers that be in this country either, fortunately our leaders are generally only embarrassing in our country. Now I will give the briefest of war thoughts. Should we have gone with the U.S. Yes, at some level anyway. (we should have your back)However invading a nation that has throughout history been at war, will not be a battle easily if at all won. I think many of us are naiive to the power of religion and their beliefs. Something not easily swayed. Say what you will of the poor treatment of its people, but there have been worse cases where the U.S. didn't help.
As I said earlier to make an informed decision, I think you'd need to spend a lot of time in both countries.
I choose Canada maybe for the simplicity of it, plus we're a fairly easy-going nation, and we send you all the good comedians and hockey players.
I do have a question though, why do so many Americans dislike Canada? I would like some insight on that.

Tony

01-11-2006, 04:34 PM

Neat question, Tux, and a great response by Rob.

I am surprised to hear your opinion that many Americans dislike Canada. The Canadians I met at the Thousand Island gathering were awesome! In general I admire Canada...it's independant nature, cultural diversity, unique geography, and the support it has historically given the U.S.

Of course, being from Michigan and growing up in Detroit, I have a closer connection (favorable bias) to Canada. It is the motherland of hockey, and the "Windsor Ballet" bars are the best!!!

Islander

01-11-2006, 04:50 PM

I do have a question though, why do so many Americans dislike Canada? I would like some insight on that.

What's Canada?

Carl C

01-11-2006, 04:51 PM

Rob, I consider Canada to be our good friend.

SideshowRob

01-11-2006, 05:29 PM

Ya know, I could swear there was something about the Whitehouse here a minute ago :wink: (when poked the elusive Canadian is known to poke back):wavey:
I realize there are more friends of Canada than not, but I guess it the few who aren't that you remember. There just seems to be a lot of jokes made towards Canada on television.... I know, I know, it's TV, and I also know we are guilty as well. must be the little brother syndrome
Oh, and in response to what's Canada....We're the ones absorbing all that Arctic air so you southern types can moe your lawn all year, while we race dogsleds around the igloo. :checkered :bighug:

Lenny

01-11-2006, 05:34 PM

...did you know...

That Canada is larger, (as a land mass) than the USA.

And, did you know, that MORE people live in California than in all of Canada.

There is no one here. In fact, just last week I passed somebody on the road ;)

Russia 17,075,400 sq km, (6,592,812 sq miles)
Canada 9,330,970 sq km, (3,612,187 sq miles)
China 9,326,410 sq km, (3,600,927 sq miles)
United States 9.166,600 sq km, (3,539,224 sq miles)
Brazil 8,456,510 sq km, (3,265,059 sq miles)
Australia 7,617,930 sq km, (2,941,283 sq miles)
India 2,973,190 sq km, (1,147,949 sq miles)
Argentina 2,736,690 sq km, (1,056,636 sq miles)
Kazakhstan 2,717,300 sq km, (1,049,150 sq miles)
Sudan 2,376,000 sq km, (917,374 sq miles)

http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/idbsum.pl?cty=CA

http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/idbsum.pl?cty=US

...as for that other comment Rob, I have only ever been treated so well while travelling and hanging out in the USA by folks, that I don't understand your findings and hence, that question. Seriously. For me, it has been like hanging out with my friends and neighbours when I go there. :yes: ...and I like my neighbours here.

SideshowRob

01-11-2006, 05:53 PM

After discussing the subject with Nicole (girlfriend, co-pilot) we agree that ALL of our personal interactions with Americans have been positive, and we have been treated well in our travels in the states. So any ill comments of Canada have come from the media.
Y'all can continue to joke about our weather, and such, we'll just say George ;)

hardcrab

01-11-2006, 07:51 PM

i'm 48 years old. i've never heard ANYONE be negative about canadians (except when i purposely mispronounce caNAda while talking with my friend from Winnipeg)
....................... are we including Quebec or , have they finally seceded?:cartman:

TuxedoPk

01-11-2006, 08:24 PM

I agree with everyone who posted that there isn't an anti-Canadian feeling in the US. The only media poking at Canada that I'm aware of were Doug and Bob... but the beer drinking, donut eating, hockey loving part was part documentary, wasn't it? :)

Back to the original thread:
Where do you feel is a better place to live in 2006 and what is the Single most compelling reason in your opinion?

need for speed

01-11-2006, 08:31 PM

I have lived in both... 18 years in Canada and 7 years in U S A ... both great places to live .. each have better things then the other... it totaly depends on what u want in life.. For Some The US is better for others Canada... I am still in the US but i love to go home and do canadian things... :smash: :rolleyes: :beer:

TuxedoPk

01-11-2006, 08:40 PM

Come on and take a position....This isn't a Supreme Court confirmation:biggrin:
Where do you feel is a better place to live in 2006 and what is the Single most compelling reason in your opinion?

This post is out of curiousity, not meant to pit the two countries or citizens against one another- both are great places.

I have lived in both... 18 years in Canada and 7 years in U S A ... both great places to live .. each have better things then the other... it totaly depends on what u want in life.. For Some The US is better for others Canada... I am still in the US but i love to go home and do canadian things... :smash: :rolleyes: :beer:

Formula Jr

01-12-2006, 02:19 AM

Hating Canada is like beating to death a very sweet and cute puppy that chewed up your shoes one night.

Canada is a quant place of what I've seen of it. Where people are more concerned with quality of life issues. And everything is smaller on the urban scale. Though I've had the oppertunity of being invited, "up north" and have taken advantage of that, and treated better than I ever imagined, I have also traveled, uninvited in BC.

Uninvited in BC, I am not welcomed as an American. And people will be in my face, like I"m some sort of Ambassitor and can explain stuff I can't explain. Canadians can spot americans.....it must be how we talk.

And once its known I'm an american, the questions and comments are off hand. That can be at a fuel pump or a hotel reservation desk or the bar I was asked to leave in Vancouver in '86. I don't some times want to talk about the loyalists in 1775.

There has, and is, some National Insecuity to Canada and its people.

Its always been a colony of the crown, and we are becoming one again. Just one of China and Bush.

So its easier now to explain things.

I'd rather live in Hawaii..... And that is in the US.

Rootsy

01-12-2006, 08:21 AM

I know a lot of canadians... hell my brother in law is canadian... all i can say is that almost every single canadian i've ever met has been genuine, polite, helpful and very respectful... I wish i could say as much for most of the americans i know...

Canada's gov't has issues... i don't particulary care for many of their policies... hell i don't care much for America's gov't either... we have more issues than they do...

the parts of canada that i have been to... they take much better care of their land, houses and environment than we do... i've never seen such beautiful, well kept farms and farmland as i have in Ontario...

just some more of my ramblings...

now tux, don't you have 4 or 5 old donzi's to be restoring instead of raising cain here?

JR

TuxedoPk

01-12-2006, 08:55 AM

now tux, don't you have 4 or 5 old donzi's to be restoring instead of raising cain here?
JR

This post wasn't meant to raise cain- I was interested in learning the perspectives of what our Canadian brothers saw as the single biggest issues differentiating the US and Canada in 2006 as it applied to them.

*Based on the responses to this posts, I'll be pulling it down later today. It's not serving any meaningful purpose as I originally intended it to do.

Carl C

01-12-2006, 12:37 PM

*Based on the responses to this posts, I'll be pulling it down later today. It's not serving any meaningful purpose as I originally intended it to do. I don't see any reason to delete this thread. It's a legitimate question and everyone has been cordial so far. Give it some time.

mattyboy

01-12-2006, 01:24 PM

I say you leave it up here til someone drops the gloves and has a lil go of it, a dance so to speak :rolleyes:
sometimes i think the whatever section should go away too???

SideshowRob

01-12-2006, 03:51 PM

I agree with Mattyboy, I've found the thread entertaining. There have been the odd comments here and there, but I believe most of us make worse comments about our own countries at times. Actually if there is anyone out there who doesn't like either Canada, or the U.S. It would be interesting to find out why? I also believe that many of us, regardless of country of origin have similar feelings, so we are unlikely to have any overly negative comments.
As for Formula Jr's experience, it was definately unfortunate, it was 20 years ago though, I think we are closer neighbours today, and besides now you have "Donzi friends" As for the bar incedent... I've been asked to leave a bar before :beer: :wink: Seriously though, I'm certain if you came back, you would have an enjoyable time, just as my visits to the states have been enjoyable, most recentely where myself and a buddy rented Harleys and rode 450 miles in and around Pheonix. AWESOME :moped:

gcarter

01-12-2006, 04:44 PM

I've been going to Canada since 1950......a total of eight or ten times.
I also read a lot of editorials from Canadian newspapers.....
Here's my sence of the differences;
Canada has a long history of being strongly allied to the thinking and ways of Great Brittain, that stands to reason since so many of the early Canadians were Royalists. They've always been different from us in a political and social sence. Partly because of their close relationship with the Crown, and partly because they don't want to be seen as too American.
The Canadian government's desire to pursue liberal social agendas, and the desire to be the open door to the rest of the worlds exiles has seemingly limited its abilities and desires to pursue other issues like national defense. (My own opinion of Western Europes and Canadas reluctance to pony up and defend themselves really irks me....Hey, it's OK to take pot shots at the US about our "cowboy" ways, but don't even think of asking "THEM" to pay for defending themselves.
I could go on, but all I would do is end up pissing off everyone above the border.
I personally like every Canadian I've ever met. I love the country, it's beautiful.
I'll stop there.

TuxedoPk

01-12-2006, 05:14 PM

but don't even think of asking "THEM" to pay for defending themselves.

Since this thread isn't giving me what I had hoped for, an understanding of Canadian's perspective on things, I'll bite.

Just who is it that WE want THEM to defend themselves against? I'm certainly no expert on Canadian history, but I was under the understanding that the United States were the last people to invade Canada during the war of 1812?

boxy

01-12-2006, 06:00 PM

and Rich we were the last and only people to burn the White House to the ground.
George it's Great Britain, and while we may have been subjects of the Crown at one time, we were also a great bulk of their defending forces in both World Wars. You can say what you want about the state of Military today, but remember we didn't have to be drafted to serve our Country.

Here is a link from Veterans Affairs.
http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=history/other/remember/worldwar

Rich you are right, as once again the all knowing elder body of the Donzi.net has provided the answers to a question they weren't asked.

Rob, there is most of the post you got to read early before I deleted it. They wouldn't quit, and neither will I...

Matty, I need a corner-man, grab your sponge and bucket, we are going on a tear....

hardcrab

01-12-2006, 06:01 PM

[QUOTE=gcarter]I've been going to Canada since 1950......a total of eight or ten times.
so, just how many times have you been drafted?:outtahere

TuxedoPk

01-12-2006, 06:13 PM

and Rich we were the last and only people to burn the White House to the ground.

Yup, and the US lost Detroit to Canada even before GM :smash:

gcarter

01-12-2006, 06:40 PM

OK, my loyal Donzi friends from the far North......
A number of things;
1) I grew up and lived in Texas most of my life...the fact I've been there eight or ten times is remarkable.
2) The bulk of my comments are about the state of differences since the VietNam war and the fall of the Soviet Union. I know, for instance, that Canadian armed forces were involved in Europe before we were in BOTH world wars.
3) Remember guys, I was at an age in the VN war to be drafted. I know all about it.
4) I vividly remember all the conscientious objectors and down right cowards that ran to Canada where the government welcomed them with open arms.
5) I'm also aware that since WW II, European, NATO, and Canadian governments have chosen to invest heavily in social welfare programs at the expense of thier own military knowing that we, the US, would pick up the slack in the defense of these countries, while we run a deficit paying for all of it. And of course, we get no thanks for it, only ridicule.
This is the end of my comment on this subject...at least everyone knows how I feel about it.

boxy

01-12-2006, 07:22 PM

SideshowRob

01-12-2006, 08:32 PM

Alright! It's getting interesting now. Let's talk military. WWI and WWII, I'd say we as Canadians can be proud of our role in those wars. As for Korea and VietNam the numbers vary, but I did see a few different sites saying 30000 + Canadians enlisted in the U.S. army, which is about half of the number of Americans who quietly moved to Canada. I also found this on the Vets with a Mission website;
Some Canadians also served in the American forces during both world wars and the Korean War. Conversely, over 35,000 Americans joined the Canadian Army during World War 1 (recall that Canada was fighting the war from 1914 to 1917 before America became involved).

Again, in World War II, some 30,000 Americans, encouraged by such war movies as Captain of the Clouds, joined the Canadian forces during the period 1939 to 1941 while the United States was still neutral.

Thus, when the Vietnam War broke out, it was not unusual that Canadians would join, or allow themselves to be drafted into, the American military.

At a time when the Canadian forces were being reduced the Vietnam War afforded some Canadians youths an opportunity to join the U.S. forces and to acquire skills they would never have received in Canada, such as learning to fly or repair helicopters. Although some joined to fight communism in Vietnam, a good number joined for personal reasons, adventure, and some merely because of nothing better to do.

Now I will say this, our current military is lacking, yes, but I think we have adopted more of a peace-keeping role in the world. To a point I understand George's comments. We do rely on the U.S. to defend us in the event of a large scale attack, but, ummmm.... why would anyone just attack us? I think we would be more likely guilty by association, or attacked because many of our resources are used across the border.

So..... In conclusion..... Who your favourite Simpson's character?:bighug:

vrod02

01-12-2006, 08:51 PM

I prefer "american" football over hockey:pimp: You guys got good fishing:dolphin:

JPR

01-13-2006, 12:44 AM

I am willing to go with this thread. Canada is an amazing place to live, raise a family, and even have some fun ('till they tax it). We are clearly different from our good friends and neighbours to the south, though.

I think it may start with the "melting pot" vs. the "cultural mosaic". America, like Canada, is a Nation propegated and defined by immigration. (think Boston Tea Party). Just as the English language steals all the best words, Canadians embrace all the best cultural, ethnic traditions. We tend to adopt people without demanding that they conform to some "dream". We let people go about their business unfettered until there is a reason not to support them.

I also think that we have lower expectations of our place in the world our actions are not based on the parameters of "how will history view us" and "how can we continue our economic dominance." I think that frees us in ways that the US cannot be freed. No chip on our shoulder, no need to be the biggest, fastest, newest baddest, because that role is already taken. Low expectations, however, is not tantamount to low achievement. I believe that we are the "under promise, over deliver" nation.

One can slag us on defence. We do not devote a reasonable budget to it. We are the frat kid who, when given the choice between insurance and beer, choses the obvious without thinking of the consequences. Of course, when we choose the beer, we would really like to drink it with our pals, the americans. So you've got my back, eh?

I live in Vancouver. More likely to use a squeegee than a snow shovel. To answer Tux's initial question, this is an incredible place to live. The climate is moderate, the business climate excellent, the ethnic food unbelievable, the politics moderate, only the real estate prices are ridiculous! I've "lived around" and honestly cannot imagine a better place to be attached to. I love Canada, love BC, am lucky to be here to enjoy it. I have no doubt that others who have a regional love have as much, if not more justification, but, as Popey saaayzze, I am what I am.

Cheers,

Rod

TuxedoPk

01-13-2006, 03:53 AM

Rod- Thanks, great reply.

Carl C

01-13-2006, 07:06 AM

George, you raised some valid points but it is not just Canada that is vulnerable. How about Mexico and actually most of the countries in the world. We are now the sole superpower and have therefore become the world's police force. Who would attack Canada? Any roque nation looking to expand. Iraq took Kuwait and the USA liberated it. Now any nation knows it must face the USA and, hopefully, our allies if they prey on weaker nations. IMO they USA is by far the best place to live. If you want elbow room we have Alaska. If you want a tropical paridise we have Hawaii. And best of all we have freedom, security and the ability to make a good life here.:)

Rootsy

01-13-2006, 09:50 AM

George, here is an article from a prof at the University of Calgary that attempts to start to describe the reason for our military breakdown.
I believe the blame sits squarely on the shoulders of the current party in power, and the sooner we are rid of them, the sooner we can start to repair our Military.
http://www.stratnet.ucalgary.ca/cmss-new/publications/pdf/gilmour_public-participation_feb2002.pdf#search='canada%20defence %20spending%20gross%20national%20product'
George, I'd also like to know who you think we need to defend ourselves from ?

damn boxy.. always have to be so clear dontcha... last time i checked i didn't see Canada trompin all over the world pissing everyone off like we tend to do... hence why do ya need a military? to defend against an inuit uprising or a polar bear and moose overpopulation? :eek!:

boxy

01-13-2006, 10:31 AM

Who would attack Canada? Any roque nation looking to expand. Iraq took Kuwait and the USA liberated it. Now any nation knows it must face the USA and, hopefully, our allies if they prey on weaker nations.

So far it appears the US protects countries that have an intrinsic value to them. There are injustices, and Civil Wars all over Africa, but there is no oil there, so no US intervention.
I'm thankful for the role the USA takes on the World stage, but go a little easy on the World's Police Force card.

As far as a Nation looking to expand by invading Canada, what's going to happen, is China going to invade BC, is Italy going to invade the Niagra Region for it's vineyards, is Milwauke going to invade London for real beer, is California going to invade Ontario for water, oh wait that may happen one day.... :D

gcarter

01-13-2006, 01:18 PM

Unfortunately, there is large amounts of oil in Africa, much of it in Nigeria. Additionally, there's no one to work with. There are NO governments in many of these countries. There is no way to restore order till the people themselves are fed up with the current conditions.
Now, think about this, with Canada's huge quantities of natural resources, do you think China might be interested in Canada IF we weren't here? Do you think China would have hesitated so long to invade Taiwan if we hadn't decided to defend it? China is simply the most obvious country to have aspirations for Canada. Also, China is completely amoral, and wouldn't hesitate to take any actions they thought would benifit them.

TuxedoPk

01-13-2006, 01:37 PM

Unfortunately, there is large amounts of oil in Africa, much of it in Nigeria.

There is no way to restore order till the people themselves are fed up with the current conditions.

Other than perhaps ongoing environmental contamination by the burning of oil v. cleaner energy, why is it unfortunate that there are large amounts of oil in Africa?

I'm glad the US isn't interfering in another part of the world trying to "restore order". One less continent of people to be pissed at us.

Rich
2'nd Generation African American

gcarter

01-13-2006, 02:27 PM

Other than perhaps ongoing environmental contamination by the burning of oil v. cleaner energy, why is it unfortunate that there are large amounts of oil in Africa?
I'm glad the US isn't interfering in another part of the world trying to "restore order". One less continent of people to be pissed at us.
Rich
2'nd Generation African American
Rich, I was responding to a quote that is no longe there. I'll be glad to delete my post, but it made perfect sense in context.
But to answer your question, the world price of oil is going up, partly because there are civil wars going on in oil producing parts of Africa.

boxy

01-13-2006, 02:39 PM

Rich, I was responding to a quote that is no longe there. I'll be glad to delete my post, but it made perfect sense in context.
But to answer your question, the world price of oil is going up, partly because there are civil wars going on in oil producing parts of Africa.

George, my post is still there.....

gcarter

01-13-2006, 03:08 PM

George, my post is still there.....
You're right Steve. We're moving our office today, and I probably shouldn't be taking a break anyway.

joseph m. hahnl

01-13-2006, 05:56 PM

Live Free or Die: that's what it's all about. military's should only be used to defenened your own freedom on your own soil. Or exceptable if asked to help and paid justly for it. The Military thing has no bearing on what makes it a great country to live.Remember every body in school hated the bully and he usally got it in the end.Canadians and there government do there fair share in the world by supply resources when needed.

To the Question about why americans dislike Canadians.As Americans we are a very sarcastic society "especially here in new england". We mock every body not just Canadians Hell we mock ourselves.We don't really dislike anybody we just find it humerous to kick the other guy in the shins. But for the most part we will allways give a person a fair shake face to face.

I visited Canada as a boy. Wasn't my cup of tea.
what truly makes a country great is the women. American woman are the hottest babes on earth. Not that Canadian women aren't fine they just dont measure up to an american goddess. And that is why the Good Ol USA is the best place to Live Free or Die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

joe