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need for speed
01-03-2006, 01:38 PM
:confused: Got a question for you guys... my wife to be had sent her resume to a job in N/C they called yesterday and seem interested in her,, they talked for 10 mins.. and now they have ask for copies of her w2's for the last 2 years...??? wtf... do they have right to do that even before they make her an offer... no $ has been talked about.
Kinda sounds like to me they want that so they can low ball her....... !!:bonk:
its a private company.. nothign too big..

what should u tell them, say sorry not yet, lets talk $ first..... maybe loss job chance..:toiletpap
Kinda what i am thinking since she has a very good job now just trying to get a new one out of FL..

Schnook
01-03-2006, 02:25 PM
Something to consider is if they're using these kind of practices now, what kind of treatment can your wife expect as an employee?

TuxedoPk
01-03-2006, 02:45 PM
:confused: Got a question for you guys... my wife to be had sent her resume to a job in N/C they called yesterday and seem interested in her,, they talked for 10 mins.. and now they have ask for copies of her w2's for the last 2 years...??? wtf... do they have right to do that even before they make her an offer... no $ has been talked about.
Kinda sounds like to me they want that so they can low ball her....... !!:bonk:
its a private company.. nothign too big..
what should u tell them, say sorry not yet, lets talk $ first..... maybe loss job chance..:toiletpap
Kinda what i am thinking since she has a very good job now just trying to get a new one out of FL..

Perhaps you might look at it a different way-
If the company had asked for her to submit a resume with salary history it wouldn't seem out of the norm.

I wouldn't be concerned in the least about a low ball offer. Any offer shows interest. Ane if she does have an interest in the position she always has the ability to negotiate a higher salary offer.

A response to a low ball offer along the lines of "I very much appreciate your desire to have me be part of your team but the other positions I am considering are in the $$ to $$$ range and have comparable responsibilities."

Schnook
01-03-2006, 02:49 PM
It's not illegal to ask for it, but she's not required to give it out (ss#). As far as verifying employment, I'm sure they ask for former employer info on their application. A low ball offer to me says they're not interested in good employees as much as cheap employees. If they're not offering a fair wage after your first counter, it could be a bumpy ride in the future. This is all said with the understanding that everyone's watching the bottom line closer than ever these days, so a lot of your decision will just have to be based on gut feeling.

mrfixxall
01-03-2006, 02:50 PM
Somthing sounds a bit fishy.Just make sure her ss# is scrarched out on the w2 and make sure its a liget co...I wouldn't want my personal information running around in some strangers hands...It could lead to credit card fraud identy theft ect....

TuxedoPk
01-03-2006, 02:58 PM
I'm going to disagree with the position not to send it. Asking prior salaries is common in every interview and very well might have come up and been answered by your partner already.

Considering the amount of BS employers are subjected to by false information on resumes and interviews a quick verification certainly doesn't hurt, nor does it necessarily depict a company that will treat its employees unfavorably.

It's not like they've asked for your tax return; this is strictly earned income from a prior employer which is a legitimate piece of information.

Small companies usually do not have people with human resource training. Perhaps they could have chosen another path, but I would'nt make an issue of this.

*Good point on the ss#.

ChromeGorilla
01-03-2006, 03:11 PM
I would provide it but black out the ssn. TUXPK offered me some advice an opinion when I was job hunting and such. It proved very valuable and in general, good advice.

TuxedoPk
01-03-2006, 03:13 PM
Smart companies today will also provide applicants they are considering with a pre-adverse action disclosure as required by the Fair Credit Reporting Act and pull credit reports on applicants as well as criminal background checks.

Personally, If I were looking to hire I'd do this after an initial telephone interview before investing they time an money to fly someone in for a job interview. It's a low cost way to eliminate applicants who many not meet your requirements for a particular position.

Those of us who've owned our own businesses can attest to the huge cost of employee mishiring. By more careful screening this huge expense is available to companies to better compensate their valued employees.

need for speed
01-03-2006, 04:26 PM
wow so much info.. thank u !!.. i think she is going to send it and for sure black out the ss #
and play with them see where it goes

Footloose
01-03-2006, 04:42 PM
if there is a sales component to her income - this is a very normal practice. Just black out what you dont want them to see for privacy reasons if you want.

Schnook
01-03-2006, 05:01 PM
if there is a sales component to her income - this is a very normal practice. Just black out what you dont want them to see for privacy reasons if you want.
What info on a W2 would be used for that? Off the top of my head I remember wages, taxes, tips, 401k info...
I've never heard of this practice, but then again I've never been in sales.
It just seems like a peculiar request to me.

Schnook
01-03-2006, 05:09 PM
Of course with my luck it's probably some sweet old mom and pop who want to give her part of the company!

need for speed
01-03-2006, 05:10 PM
No sales... she is an accountant controller... looking to move in to same type of work...... and they have not asked her anything about pay yet... ......

TuxedoPk
01-03-2006, 05:39 PM
No sales... she is an accountant controller... looking to move in to same type of work...... and they have not asked her anything about pay yet... ......

Keep us posted.... it will be interesting to see whether they've got the smarts to send out a pre-adverse disclosure and do an investigative credit check on on her. (For this, you will need to give out your SS# and consent).

Any business owner with financial savy would REQUIRE this for this position. (Would you want to hire someone to watch over your money who is in financial trouble or has difficulty managing their own personal financial affairs?)

While credit checks typically go back 7 years, if the position pays over $75k (I believe this is still the number) an investigation is allowed to report back everything they can dig up from the time you turned 18!

Sam
01-03-2006, 05:44 PM
There is no way I would send them the info, if it were me I would see this request as a big red flag. You should be hired based on your qualifcations and the pay scale associated with the job not what your past or current pay is. I would bet that if this company was asked to disclose thieir P&L statement the answer would be a resounding NO. By giving up your personal information like this you lose your bargining position.

Make no mistake they are not looking out for your future and or your best interest, that's up to you :smile: .

Good Luck
Sam

Schnook
01-03-2006, 06:25 PM
Aren't criminal and credit background checks usually one of the last steps in the hiring process? I believe they come after references, interviews any competency testing and drug tests have been completed. Sam is right, it's the responsibility of each party involved to get the best deal they can. That's why people fudge (lie) on their resumes and companies ask for your W2. :yes:

TuxedoPk
01-03-2006, 06:40 PM
Sam, considering the position as controller it would be a very valid request to review the company's financials prior to accepting an offer that has been made.

Personally, as a business owner I'd have more respect for an individual who made this request after I extended them a senior finance position than someone who just accepted an offer because they needed quick employment.

Due diligence works in both directions and a truthful exchange of information helps both employee and employer hopefully enter into fruitful relationships.

I disagree "by giving up your personal information like this you lose your bargining position." For arguments sake, there is absolutely no reason that if your prior two years salary were $38k and $41k that you couldn't take the position that you will only consider offers at the $60k range.

The reasons could be:

- "I'm only looking at more senior positions and will only accept compensation comensurate with responsibility"

- "Based on my knowlege and experience I realized that I was not earning as much as my peers and that is why I have decided to seek other employment"

- "I'm happy that you see that I am the right person for this position. Although my salary requirements represent a considerable increase in compensation for me, it is in line with what you would have to pay any other competant candidate."

Unless you are looking to earn more money than a position is worth, then having a significantly lower prior income should not be a problem.

DonziJon
01-03-2006, 06:55 PM
WOW: My Absolute Gut feeling would be to agree with Sam. Reading Tux take on it and I am swayed his way. So, if I were "Need For Speed", I'd be back on the fence. Logic ..and buisness experience..Vs Gut Feeling. That's a very tough call... for me. Sorry I can't be of help. :confused: DJ

need for speed
01-03-2006, 07:33 PM
Yeah i am on the fence again!!.... Laurie will be home shorly... she will read this too... heck she is going to have to get a S.N soon...

I Don't know i have never worked for people always do my own thing... if it was me i might tell them to dream on... but thats y i dont work for people.. :rlol:

Sam
01-03-2006, 07:46 PM
Great topic ! Tux, all due respect but read any of the basic books on negotiation and they will tell you one of the basic rules is to play your cards close to your chest in an effort to maximize your strengths. If you lay out your strong cards in the begining what do you have left to bargin with........... not much. This is not about withholding basic information it's about "them" asking someone to drop their pants on the first date :eek: .
It's my opinion that if you give in so quickly you run the risk of leaving money in one form or another on the table :kaioken: . This has been great fun and we could go on and on. I think everyone has made some great points let's just hope she get's what she's looking for.

TuxedoPk
01-03-2006, 08:06 PM
Sam- I'm not going to try to convince you that I'm right, or go into my background on negotiation, but there is one part of your post where I believe you are having a difference of opinion because I perhaps wasn't as clear as I could have been.

Playing cards close to one's chest at times does have its advantage. However, before a salary negotation can take place, the management of the company had better have a strong degree of trust in the person they are hiring as controller- the protector of corporate assets.

Conveying a feeling of willingness to share and having nothing to hide shows an individual has a great deal of confidence in themselves, and gives others the feeling they can be trusted. Now that the fish is on the hook- feeling really good about the candidate, it is time to start the reeling in process (getting the desired compensation).

I know that you're probably not alone feeling that providing this information is like dropping your pants. I view it as throwing some chum overboard to get the fish circling before you can hook one. (This concludes fishing analogies)

The strong cards you referr to should be your job qualification, integrity, and likeabilty. I'd lead with these any day.

As I see it, the only way to leave money on the table is to accept an offer that does not meet your requirements.

I'm with you hoping Laurie finds a financially rewarding position with a company that values its associates, and yes, I too have found this thread to be fun.

Mrs. need for speed
01-03-2006, 08:35 PM
What great help! Thank you all...... I will let you know what I do.:pretzel:

btw... good to have my own name!

TuxedoPk
01-03-2006, 09:34 PM
Laurie, welcome to the board!

While we were all responding to "Need's" original post I think we lost focus of the bigger issue. Once you get married, doesn't that negate your need to work? :)

p729lws
01-03-2006, 11:26 PM
Why would they ask for a W-2? They are too easy to generate and there is no way to check the authenticity.

Dan

Rootsy
01-04-2006, 10:05 AM
Sam, considering the position as controller it would be a very valid request to review the company's financials prior to accepting an offer that has been made.
Personally, as a business owner I'd have more respect for an individual who made this request after I extended them a senior finance position than someone who just accepted an offer because they needed quick employment.
Due diligence works in both directions and a truthful exchange of information helps both employee and employer hopefully enter into fruitful relationships.
I disagree "by giving up your personal information like this you lose your bargining position." For arguments sake, there is absolutely no reason that if your prior two years salary were $38k and $41k that you couldn't take the position that you will only consider offers at the $60k range.
The reasons could be:
- "I'm only looking at more senior positions and will only accept compensation comensurate with responsibility"
- "Based on my knowlege and experience I realized that I was not earning as much as my peers and that is why I have decided to seek other employment"
- "I'm happy that you see that I am the right person for this position. Although my salary requirements represent a considerable increase in compensation for me, it is in line with what you would have to pay any other competant candidate."
Unless you are looking to earn more money than a position is worth, then having a significantly lower prior income should not be a problem.


i never answer how much when asked until i hear their offer first... they are the ones paying and benefitting greatly from you... more so than you from them... i've never been asked to prove past employment pay amounts... and i will never answer that question up front... from my past experience with OEM and Tier 1 automotive manufacturers and suppliers... if they can screw you on the pay scale, they will.. and they may tell you that an "average" work week is 45 hours but they'll squeaze the blood right out of that turnip... though you have a job to do it will always be you against them.. and once you settle and accept the job the only recourse you have is to look elsewhere... so like sam.. play your cards close to your chest when it comes to past salary and benefits until you KNOW what they are offering and then you can start tossing trump cards...

Woodsy
01-04-2006, 10:11 AM
Not a chance! I have never been asked for a W-2 nor would I provide one. I would politely ask the company why they felt it was nessecary for me to divulge such private information. I would then try to make a decision based on the reason they gave. But I would under no circumstances voluntarily divulge that info. Let them pull a credit report if they want to have an idea of your financial standing.

The only time my W-2 information was divulged was during the interview process for my security clearance. Then again Uncle Sam already had that info.

NO WAY!

Woodsy

need for speed
01-04-2006, 11:09 AM
No way Laurie;s got to keep working...!!! :outtahere I need time to play with the 22.... :cool: she is at work..:umbrella: i was at work and will be again after lunch but i do have the slack job for now..:beer:
I agree with woodsy!!! many other good points made here too.. i will see what she does...
....I really like that new "special Gray 22 for 06"..... hmmmm Laurie.. get that job!! :D

Donzi Angel
01-04-2006, 02:05 PM
I agree with Woodsy---if they want that information, they can run her credit report --- at least that way she will have to sign an authorization for them to pull her credit report that says any information they obtain they cannot share with others (or at least here in Texas I had to last time).
Privacy laws around here have really beefed up lately, so it is better to be safe than sorry.
Oh yeah -- and CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!
Renee

dfunde01
01-04-2006, 07:17 PM
Interesting thread to follow. Most employment applications that I have seen require that you provide your SS number and many include an approval to obtain a credit report when you sign the application. Information on salary history is also requested in some cases. A request for w2's would be a way of verifying that information. The range of opinions on this topic has also been interesting to follow. I haven't seen enough information to offer specific advice to the young lady. I will offer that you will be asked for a broader range of background information when applying for a CFO / financial position than if you are applying for a job as a skilled craftsman, shop foreman, production manager, etc. In today's world I'm not surprised that many employers might be tempted, to quote Eddie Murphy, "Crawl up your butt with a microscope " before they put someone in a position that is critical to the success or failure of their enterprise.

Dave

joseph m. hahnl
01-06-2006, 03:00 PM
I suspect it has nothing to do with wages. but more employment history.
what better way would there be to varify how many jobs you've had in 2 yrs.
if she worked for 10 companies in 2 yrs they would see a problem. if she worked for the same company for 2 yrs they would see a loyal and valued employee. I Agree with Tux the wage is allways negotable .To me if your not going to make more money or get better benefits or even a better commute . it is not worth taking the job. Most companies require you to have worked so many yrs before you get a good vacation package. So when you take a new job you usually loose that benifit.That is where the pay increase comes in.


joe