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View Full Version : 1969 GT22 or 1969 18 Classic? Question from new member?



rickaroy
01-02-2006, 08:47 AM
I have been following the Donzi forum for some time and have to say I am impressed with the focus of the members and their willingness to share and help other members. The dedication to the Donzi brand reminds me of Harley-Davidson owners like myself.

With that being said I have a question and a decision to make regarding the 1969 GT 22 with two original V-8's. I am purchasing from a family member one of two 1969 Donzi's the other being an 18 Classic.

The GT 22 needs gel coat repair, carpet, seats recovered, wood trim and a new windshield. The motors are in good operating order and the boat runs strong.

The 18 classic does not have the original engine but needs very little to make it a really great looking boat. Both come with trailers and the gas tanks are solid.

My question is:
How many years did Donzi offer two V-8’s?
Is this a desirable boat and worth the repair cost?
Does not having the original engine depreciate the value?

Thank you in advance for the help,

Roy

rickaroy
01-02-2006, 09:03 AM
21'6"....... Thank you.

rickaroy
01-02-2006, 09:26 AM
GT 21 is listed as 21'1" .. :confused:
Twins?? Any pics??

Ok, I don't have the knowledge I will have. I am simply looking for general information regarding how long the twin was produced, does it have more appeal than a single, some idea regarding a fair purchase price for each boat, would it be worth the effort to make the necessary repairs etc.

I don't have pics with me today but will post them as soon as I can.

thanks

Cuda
01-02-2006, 10:09 AM
I'd get the twin just due to the scarcity of them.

rickaroy
01-02-2006, 11:11 AM
Value??
Thats going to be tough...
A couple (http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2040&highlight=Twin+Engine+GT-21) of threads... (http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=29443)

Thanks for the thread Scott. I will post a couple pics later today and would appreciate any comments.

olredalert
01-02-2006, 11:12 AM
--------I have always thought that the royal blue twin 21GT pictured was a one-of-one boat. The one I knew of and rode in back in the day (1971) was not royal blue however, but baby blue. I remember even being told by John Chisholm the day I rode from the factory back to Johns house in Ft.Lauderdale that they only built one of these rarities. I have been assuming for quite some time that the royal blue boat was the baby blue boat repainted a non-original color. Oh gee! I guess its possible that Im wrong again. Big surprise there, huh, guys??? Long lead-in to inquire what color boat is being asked about in this thread???.........Bill S

rickaroy
01-02-2006, 11:16 AM
--------I have always thought that the royal blue twin 21GT pictured was a one-of-one boat. The one I knew of and rode in back in the day (1971) was not royal blue however, but baby blue. I remember even being told by John Chisholm the day I rode from the factory back to Johns house in Ft.Lauderdale that they only built one of these rarities. I have been assuming for quite some time that the royal blue boat was the baby blue boat repainted a non-original color. Oh gee! I guess its possible that Im wrong again. Big surprise there, huh, guys??? Long lead-in to inquire what color boat is being asked about in this thread???.........Bill S

Its baby blue with white interior. I will post pics soon so I can get some idea whats needed to get this Donzi back the way it deserves to look.

Roy

olredalert
01-02-2006, 11:24 AM
-----Poodle is right,,,,,,,,Im in fetal position on the floor. Had to bring the key-board down here with me. MOMMMMMMMYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!............Bill S

Craig S
01-02-2006, 11:51 AM
I thought the GTs had a center console. Is that just the old ones?

Lenny
01-02-2006, 12:06 PM
I'd get the GT21 twin. You can ALWAYS find an 18. I seem to recall a while back that someone else had a twin GT boat getting restored. :yes: Just can't remember who.

You won't find many (or any) more of these in your lifetime.

rickaroy
01-02-2006, 12:50 PM
I'd get the GT21 twin. You can ALWAYS find an 18. I seem to recall a while back that someone else had a twin GT boat getting restored. :yes: Just can't remember who.
You won't find many (or any) more of these in your lifetime.

Thanks for the information. Where would the hull number be located and what other information should I look for number wise.

Roy

Rob
01-02-2006, 12:55 PM
I'm friends with a previous owner of the dark blue and white twin engine GT21. It used to reside at Lake of the Ozarks in Missouri. My recollection is the boat has been painted. It had 351W's when he owned it, Volvo outdrives.

Although I agree the boat is rare, perhaps unique, it was not a very good boat from a design standpoint. Handling was terrible, way to stern heavy, had trouble planning off, couldn't get to the engines to work on them and was a pig with fuel.

The engines were rebuilt while he owned it, but apparently not very well. He got tired of messing with the boat and sold it. I believe that was six or seven years ago.

Given the way it tuned out, it would not suprise me if they didn't build another one. I also seem to remember someone saying they only built one as a custom order the last time it changed hands. May have been Allan Brown.

rickaroy
01-02-2006, 02:56 PM
LOL, sorry, guess I was a bit excited there :) :)
First off, welcome to the board..
Twin engine GT21's are scarce.... Very scarce.....
Attaxhed are a couple GT21 pics... The red one is a single engine, the other
is a twin boat....

Thanks again for the information. Here are a couple of pics on the boat in question. The gel coat will need to be re-finished and the seats are complete but will need to be re-covered. The dash is white but some baby blue can be seen in some places so it looks as if that was the origional.

Roy

rickaroy
01-02-2006, 03:09 PM
I'm friends with a previous owner of the dark blue and white twin engine GT21. It used to reside at Lake of the Ozarks in Missouri. My recollection is the boat has been painted. It had 351W's when he owned it, Volvo outdrives.
Although I agree the boat is rare, perhaps unique, it was not a very good boat from a design standpoint. Handling was terrible, way to stern heavy, had trouble planning off, couldn't get to the engines to work on them and was a pig with fuel.
The engines were rebuilt while he owned it, but apparently not very well. He got tired of messing with the boat and sold it. I believe that was six or seven years ago.
Given the way it tuned out, it would not suprise me if they didn't build another one. I also seem to remember someone saying they only built one as a custom order the last time it changed hands. May have been Allan Brown.
Rob,

Thank you for your input. That is the type of information I am looking for. You would wonder why Donzi didn't make more twins, your comments could explain why. Roy

rickaroy
01-02-2006, 03:43 PM
Twin Holman Moody engines??


It's official....









Ole Red is dead...


Long live Red :) :) :)

Scott,

Her is a couple more pics. What do you think?

Roy

olredalert
01-02-2006, 04:03 PM
---------Just got off the phone with my therapist. He says Im OK. Im not so sure so I keep chanting some stuff that he told me would work. DONZI,,,,DONZI,,,,DONZI,,,,You get the idea.

---------Lenny,,,Take a look at the interior shots and you will see the optional seat-back strengtheners (the aluminum straps). It was quite awhile back but I think it was when you had your 21GT that we talked about this............Bill S

mattyboy
01-02-2006, 04:18 PM
nice nice

Lenny
01-02-2006, 04:43 PM
Here is where my hull ID was on a foil tag. Port side of the console. Yours has been painted white, look under the white to see if it is still under there.

Otherwise, ???

THAT is a VERY COOL boat. I would be all over it after I put some 280 K-planes on it. :yes:

Note that the fender pop-ups are still in working condition. :D

rickaroy
01-02-2006, 05:04 PM
I think you need to hide thoose Holman Moody plates on the drives :) :)
VERY cool boat.... The last one that sold was a difficult sale, I believe partially due to the handling as discussed, partially due to the rarity of it making pricing it difficult.
Your needs will determine where you go with the boat, and what it costs ya. Getting it running as is, a new interior, new gas tank (I assume it is original) and a trailer are not major expenses. (assuming good stringers, transom etc) You will end up with a very cool boat...
On the other hand, if your a total resto kinda guy, it will be pricey... VERY pricey... And, IMO, if you plan to use it, not needed...
Flip side of the coin: where's some pics of the 18?? :D :D :D

One of the plates is missing anyway....... I still need to check the title and make sure and the running gear is origional as stated. Remember this is my brother-n-law so I don't want to hurt is feelings but must do my do diligence.

The boat runs very strong now with the main focus needed on gel coat and interior. I took the pics today for this forum in a driving rain and only took one shot of the 18 Classic. It was taken out of the lake this weekend after a long summer and in need of a good detail. I really like this boat the best, it's like ridding a Harley on the water and everyone loves the sound. The GT 21 is so much heaver and handles anything wave wise on the lake.

Roy

rickaroy
01-02-2006, 05:06 PM
Here is where my hull ID was on a foil tag. Port side of the console. Yours has been painted white, look under the white to see if it is still under there.
Otherwise, ???
THAT is a VERY COOL boat. I would be all over it after I put some 280 K-planes on it. :yes:
Note that the fender pop-ups are still in working condition. :D


Thanks for your input and insight. I will check for the hull number. I had already left to take pics when I received your email.

Roy

boldts
01-04-2006, 12:10 PM
OMG - There are 2 of those GT21s. Man I don't care what it rides like or how difficult it is to change spark plugs in twin Holman Moody engines. That GT would be the only choice for me if I had it to make. Like Lenny said, 18s are a dime a dozen. The GT is like having a Boyd Cottington(sp) original street rod.

RickaRoy. Your a very lucky man to have a chance to buy either one of those boats. I'll bet if you pass on the GT that you'll receive more e-mail wanting info. to contact your family member to buy that GT than you would imagine. Probably already happening. The GT really is a piece of history and can be done like a resto mod car to upgrade any problems it may have suffered in it's day. The exterior and interior can be placed back original. Trailer companys are a dime a dozen. Engines can be mated to drives with trim to upgrade the performance. Keep the Holman Moody drive plates and install them on a newer Volvo with trim drive cover. Yeah, the older Donzi fanatics might talk under their breath about the boat being worth more if it were original, but believe me, they'd be offering you and wishing it was behind their tow vechicle.

I had to pass on the medium blue twin GT21 pictured back when it was for sale. Money wasn't and even now isn't available. Believe me though, that boat was and still is my dream Donzi. I'd love to see this GT restored and used by it's owner.

rickaroy
01-04-2006, 12:21 PM
OMG - There are 2 of those GT21s. Man I don't care what it rides like or how difficult it is to change spark plugs in twin Holman Moody engines. That GT would be the only choice for me if I had it to make. Like Lenny said, 18s are a dime a dozen. The GT is like having a Boyd Cottington(sp) original street rod.
RickaRoy. Your a very lucky man to have a chance to buy either one of those boats. I'll bet if you pass on the GT that you'll receive more e-mail wanting info. to contact your family member to buy that GT than you would imagine. Probably already happening. The GT really is a piece of history and can be done like a resto mod car to upgrade any problems it may have suffered in it's day. The exterior and interior can be placed back original. Trailer companys are a dime a dozen. Engines can be mated to drives with trim to upgrade the performance. Keep the Holman Moody drive plates and install them on a newer Volvo with trim drive cover. Yeah, the older Donzi fanatics might talk under their breath about the boat being worth more if it were original, but believe me, they'd be offering you and wishing it was behind their tow vechicle.
I had to pass on the medium blue twin GT21 pictured back when it was for sale. Money wasn't and even now isn't available. Believe me though, that boat was and still is my dream Donzi. I'd love to see this GT restored and used by it's owner.


Thanks, I already made the decision to get the 21GT. I really appreciate all the help from the Donzie forums and know for sure I will be picking your brains for help getting this boat where it should be.

I'll be back..................................

boldts
01-04-2006, 12:41 PM
Way Cooool! Can't wait to see the progress. Good luck with her. I hope to be able to see the boat someday in person.

EricG
01-04-2006, 01:49 PM
Wow...count me as another in the long line of folks obsessed with these twin GT's. I'm really beginning to wonder how many of these there really are?

No one has mentioned it yet, but this is now #3 to show up on registry. Rick's Dark Blue one, this one, and just a couple of months ago the red one with twin V-drives in Canada. Could there still be more?

Anyone have an idea how many GT's were made total. If I'm not mistaken, we have seen examples in 4 different configs: Single I/O, Twin I/O, Single V and Twin V-drive. Now if we could just find a couple of jets :biggrin:

Congrats on this find...I'm sure it will make you very happy.

EG

JimG
01-04-2006, 02:33 PM
Wow! Amazing boat! You're the envy of the whole Donzi community!

Keep it original. I would would not drill one hole in it, if it were mine... That gelcoat will buff out, too... the gel on my 1970 looks great. It does not look like a new boat, it looks like a beautiful OLD boat. The way it should be.

JimG

BUIZILLA
01-04-2006, 02:55 PM
wasn't there a light blue one for sale at that Lake Tahoe dealership a while back??

rickaroy
01-04-2006, 02:55 PM
Alright guy's, you've got my attention and I'm excited to get going on this thing. Thanks again for all you helpful thoughts. I will post some additional pics Monday after I have the chance to give her a good bath.

I do love Donzi blue......

rickaroy
01-04-2006, 04:48 PM
Lenny,

Would you mind explain what I'm looking for?
thanks, Roy

Formula Jr
01-04-2006, 06:08 PM
The thing that impressed me the most about the GT 21 was how heavy it was built. These are tanks like Ocean Masters or Black Fins with a sport deck. I towed one fom MD to Oregon and it was by far the heaviest 21 I have ever had on the hook. Thank god the trailer had a surge brake.
Its the Buick Wildcat, two door, of Donzis. And the funniest aspect was the goofy windshield they put on it with no center support. The CG of these is way too aft for a twin V8 unless you move the center fuel tank some where forward or put in a ballast bladder of somekind in the bow. Anything you can do to lighten up the boat and get the center forward will make it a better handling boat. The curving transom will give you pain to install tabs, which are needed on this one.

There is so much space in a GT that you can get very creative. The best conversion I've seen was one where all the interior hatches were removed as was the entire bolt on dash and windshield and center console and the gauges moved up to a traditional dash. I would have also added a crawl cuddy in the bow and a hatch. With some thought, you can get 600 Lbs or more off this boat. And may be, just maybe, it will sing and dance.

Lenny
01-04-2006, 07:17 PM
Buizilla, there is this one that "leads" us nowhere... :(


Lake Tahoe Boating Classifieds: Powerboats
DONZI 1972 GT21 21 FT, 400hrs tandem trailer. ... low hrs., full cus-tom cover,
Bimini top, match-ing trailer w/brakes, Beautiful-ly loaded, can email pics. ...
www.boattahoe.com//powerboats4sale.htm - 29k - Supplemental Result - Cached - Similar pages

BUIZILLA
01-04-2006, 08:15 PM
Len, it was listed at the boathouse that was a long ago Donzi dealer.

JH

Lenny
01-04-2006, 08:55 PM
Jim, I could show you an original, MINT, 351 H/M GT21 in Tahoe if you like. There are pics on the board somewhere that I posted a while ago. I talked to the fella, and it seemed like $16K would be the lowest that would buy it. One owner, Lake Tahoe, all original, not a single extra hole, NEVER in the sun other than using it.

I gave Poodle the pictures a year or more ago. I know he still has them around 'cuz he posts links to 'em. I deleted mine BUT can give you the fellas name if you are interested. Volvo 270, 351 H/M, original tandem trailer, what looks to be "like new" and untouched. Price WAS firm... I passed.

I have his name if you like. I will PM it to you. :D

Ted Guldemond
01-05-2006, 05:57 PM
Question- In 1970 the H/M 351 was a cleveland based engine. From the pics. (the valve covers) look like windsor. Were the engines in 69 windsor blocks or has she been repowered. Also if it helps the foil hull number sticker on mine is on the starboard side of the center console. # 21-21 allegedly built in Dec. 69 but sold as a 70. The gel on these boats is very thick I'll bet that will buff and/or wet sand right out. The blue actually looks good, not as faded as mine. One other question- on the picture showing the deck I can't tell if its reflection or some waviness. If its wavy check the deck for balsa core separation/saturation.

mattyboy
01-05-2006, 08:55 PM
my 69 351 is a windsor, throw twin clevlands in that sumbitch and tight brings on a whole new meaning ;) :yes: :)
here's another 1970 boat 351 it's a windsor too
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=42857

Big grizzly's corsican is a cleveland boat from the factory not sure of the year

JimG
01-06-2006, 06:58 AM
My 1970 351 is a Windsor...

mattyboy
01-06-2006, 10:19 AM
Ted,
is your GT a H/M 351 cleveland??? do you have the H/M serial number??
would like to compare it to mine, the only H/M boats I have seen in person have been 16 and 18's most were 302's all of the 351 ones I have seen are windsors, oh and one 427 side oiler v drive
wonder if they used the cleveland in boats with a little more clearance in the bilge like the corsican,gt and hornet?? in my 16 the 351w flame arrestor just clears the hatch by a hair on my chinney chin chin

rickaroy
01-08-2006, 04:04 PM
Ted,
is your GT a H/M 351 cleveland??? do you have the H/M serial number??
would like to compare it to mine, the only H/M boats I have seen in person have been 16 and 18's most were 302's all of the 351 ones I have seen are windsors, oh and one 427 side oiler v drive
wonder if they used the cleveland in boats with a little more clearance in the bilge like the corsican,gt and hornet?? in my 16 the 351w flame arrestor just clears the hatch by a hair on my chinney chin chin

There are 302's running in this boat with the origional H/M (PZ NR 2528908 B)& (PZ NR 2506278 B). Also has two sixty gallon gas tanks. I have been sick as a dog the last three day's but did manage to get the 21 GT to my house today.........

No blowouts and the trailer brakes actually worked. Thank god, this is one heavy package.

mattyboy
01-09-2006, 11:05 AM
Roy,
good luck with the boat :)
the serial numbers you posted are for the volvo drives the engines should have a silver tag with the holman moody logo on the bell housing
start with A0HM or something like that

Ted Guldemond
01-09-2006, 05:29 PM
Matty, I wish I had the original engine. The previous owner repowered it in 1996 with a 351 (Windsor). The original was definately a Cleveland. The boat came with the original H/M owner's engine manual which shows both pictures of the engine and by specifications listed (crank journal size etc.), to be a Cleveland. Did Holman & Moody offer both Clevelands and Windsors at the same time. Or did they switch in the early 70's for the few short years ford offered the Cleveland engine? Or was it a matter of what was available at the best price?

mattyboy
01-09-2006, 09:19 PM
the jist i got from your post Ted that you knew all 1970 H/M 351's were clevelands, that's why i wanted to see your serial numbers, BigGrizzly's coriscan is a cleveland , but all of the h/m 351's i have seen have been windsor's will a cleveland fit in a 16 or a 18???? that was my point they might have put them in the bigger boats,yes i'm sure they offered both but to know which was what ,when ???????