Procharging the V-6

[The Hedgehog]

My father wants to get a little more serious with his 16. It currently has a 4.3 OMC V-6 with Imco Thumpers exiting through the transom. We thought it would be fun to modify the V-6 because it is light and seldomly done.

We plan to start with a 4bbl and Edlebrock Performer manifold and cam combo. It looks like we have plenty of room for a Procharger M-1 setup. We will freshen the engine. Does anyone know if Procharger makes a bolt on kit for this setup? I would not think that it would be too different from what is used on a carbed 350 since the 4.3 is essentially 3/4 of that engine.

I think that we should be able to get the boat to run in the 65-70 mph range. Maybe more if we crank up the boost. I read that Rootsy took his 16 past that mark with a built up small block and discovered some interesting handling characteristics. This boat will be lighter so it may not have as much of a chine walk problem. Does anyone know if anyone else has gone there with the 4.3? I do know of one 16 with a roots blower on that same setup.

[mikev]

I looked into doing that a couple of years back there is no kit for it so you would have to custom fabricate something. it was cheaper just to swap a 350 in to it and it would be much more reliable anyway. unfortunatly divorce killed the budget so i am still running the six :bawling:

[Sam]

I could be wrong but I don't think weight will paly a big role in reducing chine walking on a sixteen. Prop's,external hydraulic steering and tabs are the three biggest factors in reducing chine walking on a 16. During three seperate phases of ownership of my 16 I experienced chine walking. My stock boat ran mid to upper 50's during the stock phase. Phase two brouhgt me up to low to mid 60's. Phase three, where am at now let's me run in the low 70's. In all three phases I increased the power and reduced the weight yet I still walk :eek!: . Personally I think that if the inner strakes were extended further back like the 18 the 16 would not fall of it's keel, or if it had a pad. Just my two cents.

Anyway what hardware source are you looking at for your possible mods and how much $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ do you think it will cost you ?

THX
Sam

[LKSD]

I have run a 16 in the 60's before. Its neat. I dont see why you couldnt do an SC to the v6. my only few concerns are cost out weighing the means & the mods required. The Sbc kits are very similar for the carb, but you will need a blow thru box for the carb & the carb should be done to work with a pressurized application, which is a bit different from the carbs sitting on a roots blower. I have some Ideas that I would be glad to go over with you on if you would like to call me after the turn of the year...
As far as the chine concern, you may want to think of planes, also fyi I have a new style set of planes made by Volvo which are quite revolutionary and extremely compact with no spring loaded or hydraulic parts.. Talk to you soon... Jamie 570-639-2628 :)

http://wwww.LakesideRestorations.com

[MOP]

There was a post awhile back that had a V6 in it that was super charged, the fellow said it had been done 10 years before and ran fine with not issues. With a little luck he will notice you post and jump in.

Phil

[p729lws]

Most of the hot set ups for the 4.3 V6 in the auto world are turbo charged. Maybe that's an option? http://www.sportmachines.com/magrack/car_driver_11-90.html
Dan

[The Hedgehog]

I have run a 16 in the 60's before. Its neat. I dont see why you couldnt do an SC to the v6. my only few concerns are cost out weighing the means & the mods required. The Sbc kits are very similar for the carb, but you will need a blow thru box for the carb & the carb should be done to work with a pressurized application, which is a bit different from the carbs sitting on a roots blower. I have some Ideas that I would be glad to go over with you on if you would like to call me after the turn of the year...
As far as the chine concern, you may want to think of planes, also fyi I have a new style set of planes made by Volvo which are quite revolutionary and extremely compact with no spring loaded or hydraulic parts.. Talk to you soon... Jamie 570-639-2628 :)
http://wwww.LakesideRestorations.com

That sounds good. I will call you in a day or so. I thought of the planes as well. I would like to hear your ideas.

[The Hedgehog]

I could be wrong but I don't think weight will paly a big role in reducing chine walking on a sixteen. Prop's,external hydraulic steering and tabs are the three biggest factors in reducing chine walking on a 16. During three seperate phases of ownership of my 16 I experienced chine walking. My stock boat ran mid to upper 50's during the stock phase. Phase two brouhgt me up to low to mid 60's. Phase three, where am at now let's me run in the low 70's. In all three phases I increased the power and reduced the weight yet I still walk :eek!: . Personally I think that if the inner strakes were extended further back like the 18 the 16 would not fall of it's keel, or if it had a pad. Just my two cents.
Anyway what hardware source are you looking at for your possible mods and how much $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ do you think it will cost you ?
THX
Sam

We are going through the learning process now. Yes, I do know that it will be impossible to recoup any of the costs. He has owned the boat for 15 years so far and has no plans to sell so it is not a real big deal.

We definately have some tabs in the plan. I am guessing that the procharger setup will be around $4,500. The rest goes on from there.

[Sam]

You might want to consider adding an Alpha SS to you boat. It's basicly a bolt on deal with very predictable results. Everyone that I have talked to that has done it was happy with the gains. At a min you should see 5mph and maybe as high as 7-8 mph. In my case I think it was right around 7 mph. The trick is finding a good one or one with a solid lower case and have it rebuilt. The bad side to this option is you can't get the upper gear set any longer so you need to be gentle with her :biggrin: .

Having said all the when you do add one of theses to your list of tricks it brings on another set of performance issues that you will have to work through. Check with Rootsy I think his is still for sale.

[BUIZILLA]

The bad side to this option is you can't get the upper gear set any longer oh yes you can.. :sombrero:

[mikev]

check out this v6 setup 300 hp v-6 (http://www.speedomotive.com/4.3%20chevy%20v-6%20street%20master.htm) but for 3500 you can get a new 350 at 325 hp new 350 (http://www.1800runsnew.com/gmpp.htm)

[Sam]

Buizilla, please explain. I have been told by more than one source that if the upper set goes or if you dammage the case you are SOL. Come on, share and share alike :yes: .

THX
Sam

[BUIZILLA]

Sam, if you lose the upper case, then your SOL...

If you need either the HD gears, or the STD gears, Poodle has them stashed in his office, or he can get them.

JH

[Sam]

I stand corrected :banghead: I guess that's what I meant to say..............lose the upper "case" not the gears and it's all done. Good to know there are some gears around just incase :splat: .
Sorry Big Green I didn't mean to side track your thread, back to you.
Thx
Sam

[The Hedgehog]

check out this v6 setup 300 hp v-6 (http://www.speedomotive.com/4.3%20chevy%20v-6%20street%20master.htm) but for 3500 you can get a new 350 at 325 hp new 350 (http://www.1800runsnew.com/gmpp.htm)


I don't know about spinning the Cobra to 6,500 rpm to get to peak power.

I wonder how dry the exhaust needs to be to tolerate this cam:
COMP. CAMS HYD. ROLLER CAM, .525" LIFT,224° @ .050, 280° ADV. DUR w/110 L/C

What kind of idle do you think this would have?

I feel pretty confident about reaching 260hp with a N/A 4.3. After that I would want some serious expertise.

[The Hedgehog]

You might want to consider adding an Alpha SS to you boat. It's basicly a bolt on deal with very predictable results. Everyone that I have talked to that has done it was happy with the gains. At a min you should see 5mph and maybe as high as 7-8 mph. In my case I think it was right around 7 mph. The trick is finding a good one or one with a solid lower case and have it rebuilt. The bad side to this option is you can't get the upper gear set any longer so you need to be gentle with her :biggrin: .
Having said all the when you do add one of theses to your list of tricks it brings on another set of performance issues that you will have to work through. Check with Rootsy I think his is still for sale.

as I first stated, it is an OMC. That would be a Cobra. If a SS will bolt up then I would certainly be game.

[The Hedgehog]

You really need to call Buizilla....

I sent him a PM

[Sam]

Must have missed that OMC detail :embarasse , interesting thread though.

[The Hedgehog]

Must have missed that OMC detail :embarasse , interesting thread though.
You did have some good points about the strakes and such. I don't see why it would be too dificult to extend the strakes. I would rather stay out of bottom work if possible. Other than the SS what did you do to get it to settle down? Did the tabs scrub off too much speed?

[LKSD]

I dont know that I would go with an alpha ss. The cobra with a v6 even adding a turbo should handle it. The reason is the power will be delivered more like a Jap car with a turbo instead of a pony car with nitrous. It will pull you strongly instead of pinning you in the seat. If you did go to an alpha you might as well go to a new one, as they are using better & stronger components inside than they did in the generation 1 series. If you use an alpha you will have to get an adaptor plate to take care of the space difference in the transom cutout (cobra has a larger opening). I also if you are loking for strength issues at that time have to think about for the money using a bravo. If you use a bravo the speed wont increas quite as much as an alpha beacuse of drag, so there are 2 other options.. If you want strength & speed an asd 6 Arneson would be a trick set up, Or an MSA also a surface drive migt be an idea. We are currently in the process of getting set up as a distributor here in the US for them. If all goes well with the manufacturer in Germany we will be the second dealer or dist in the US. The drive is somewhat similar to an arneson and is also an HD unit. It is about the same $ as an arneson or only slightly less by the time you get one here. A nice feature about the MSA is for 06 they will have the have the capability of using bravo props, making it much cheaper to dial in than using ssm or Rolla props. I do think that all of these options however are probably a bit overkill for a SC or turbo v6. Just my 2 cents.. Talk to you soon.. Jamie :)

[gold-n-rod]

I've been reading all the posts in this thread and still keep wondering, of you are going to drop all this coin, why not spend it on a sweet small block?

You'll get more useable power, something that (almost) anyone can fix, there's room under the hatch and in the engine compartment, and it's cool!

Exotic drivetrains in ordinary boats is overkill. The 16 and the Chevy smallblock were made for each other.

Use the leftover money for fuel.

Just my 2 pennies :smash:

[The Hedgehog]

I've been reading all the posts in this thread and still keep wondering, of you are going to drop all this coin, why not spend it on a sweet small block?
You'll get more useable power, something that (almost) anyone can fix, there's room under the hatch and in the engine compartment, and it's cool!
Exotic drivetrains in ordinary boats is overkill. The 16 and the Chevy smallblock were made for each other.
Use the leftover money for fuel.
Just my 2 pennies :smash:

many times. I thought that it would be cool to try something different. We like the light nimble feel of the v-6. Also considering Jamie's point about the drive. A centrifugal blower develops power further down the curve where the drive is less vulnerable. Lots of folks with centrifugal blown 502's hanging on to their bravos. Strap on a built 540 and watch out.

We are also considering a built up v-6. Doing some research there. Most recipes I have seen so far are not good marine combos.

Will probably stick with the Cobra drive train.

This is an education process so far.

[The Hedgehog]

What are your exhaust plans? The Corba in the 18 is durn near impossible to do thru hull in, I assume the 16 will have the same issues??

As I mentioned before. Got IMCO Thumpers through hull. And yes it was not easy. Getting over the top of the steering required some fabrication. Doug French of Dixie Marine did the work. I have a post somewhere showing the installation.

[Lenny]

http://www.foreandaftmarine.com/VO-QL3841717.htm


As far as the chine concern, you may want to think of planes, also fyi I have a new style set of planes made by Volvo which are quite revolutionary and extremely compact with no spring loaded or hydraulic parts.. Talk to you soon... Jamie

If this is what you are describing, it looks to me like a GIANT speed scrubber. Like sticking an oar, vertically, into the water at speed.

Is this what you are describing? and if so, is this not intended for inboard, fixed drive angle applications?

[MOP]

I have been following the post with interest, I used to race 6 cylinder Chevies and Jimmies back in the 50's and still root for the little guys.
Is the front accessory bolt pattern the same as a 350, if it is why couldn't the Pro Charger be adapted. The Cobra will hold more HP then an Alpha, I think the boat would be a hoot and may humble a few lesser SB's. I for one would love to see you put it together, I am sure you can find the info on parts you need to make it stay together. It will cost some bucks, what price do you put on a big smile on your dads face! We all know all about throwing bucks at these boats, if you are happy when done that is all that counts.

Phil

[The Hedgehog]

http://www.foreandaftmarine.com/VO-QL3841717.htm
If this is what you are describing, it looks to me like a GIANT speed scrubber. Like sticking an oar, vertically, into the water at speed.
Is this what you are describing? and if so, is this not intended for inboard, fixed drive angle applications?
But who said anything about inboard fixed drive angle applications?

[The Hedgehog]

I have been following the post with interest, I used to race 6 cylinder Chevies and Jimmies back in the 50's and still root for the little guys.
Is the front accessory bolt pattern the same as a 350, if it is why couldn't the Pro Charger be adapted. The Cobra will hold more HP then an Alpha, I think the boat would be a hoot and may humble a few lesser SB's. I for one would love to see you put it together, I am sure you can find the info on parts you need to make it stay together. It will cost some bucks, what price do you put on a big smile on your dads face! We all know all about throwing bucks at these boats, if you are happy when done that is all that counts.
Phil
A few dollars here and there is okay. Well worth it for a smile and a nice fat cruise speed! The big thing I was wondering is if the bolt pattern on the front of the 4.3 is the same as a 350. I know the the block is essentially 3/4 of a 350.

[BUIZILLA]

When I repowered my Four Winns, I replaced a 2bbl 4.3 with a complete, except accessories, 5.7 Mag. Everything from the 4.3 bolted right up, and aligned correctly on the 5.7, except the bracket for the shift interrupter, which only required me slotting one hole for one intake bolt. Other than that, it was as direct and easy as it sounds.

For what is being discussed here, I would absolutely stick with the V6 he has, and build a non blown engine the right way. Anybody can put a V8 in there, where's the challenge in that?? I'm pretty sure the Procharger V8 kit will bolt right up, but *I* would like to see a bad ass, high torque V6 done up. There HAS to be some ex Busch V6 intake and heads floating around for cheap, build the shortblock right for pump gas (remember the Busch limits were 9.0 comp !!), use the exhaust he has and go play. The cam, intake, carb, and heads are the key here, the bottom end is just along for the push... I firmly believe there is 315 to 325hp, and equal or more torque, in this setup. The Cobra drive will hold up for sure with the good OMC gear oil, the drive mounted water pump is MORE than adequate capacity for a V6....

I see NO downsides, just someone with the patience and balls to just do it. Your going to see a neat V6 out of our camp in the future, and if it don't run 70, i'll eat the barnacles off the pilings.

JH

[The Hedgehog]

When I repowered my Four Winns, I replaced a 2bbl 4.3 with a complete, except accessories, 5.7 Mag. Everything from the 4.3 bolted right up, and aligned correctly on the 5.7, except the bracket for the shift interrupter, which only required me slotting one hole for one intake bolt. Other than that, it was as direct and easy as it sounds.
For what is being discussed here, I would absolutely stick with the V6 he has, and build a non blown engine the right way. Anybody can put a V8 in there, where's the challenge in that?? I'm pretty sure the Procharger V8 kit will bolt right up, but *I* would like to see a bad ass, high torque V6 done up. There HAS to be some ex Busch V6 intake and heads floating around for cheap, build the shortblock right for pump gas (remember the Busch limits were 9.0 comp !!), use the exhaust he has and go play. The cam, intake, carb, and heads are the key here, the bottom end is just along for the push... I firmly believe there is 315 to 325hp, and equal or more torque, in this setup. The Cobra drive will hold up for sure with the good OMC gear oil, the drive mounted water pump is MORE than adequate capacity for a V6....
I see NO downsides, just someone with the patience and balls to just do it. Your going to see a neat V6 out of our camp in the future, and if it don't run 70, i'll eat the barnacles off the pilings.
JH
And also a consideration. I am a little worried about putting a hot cam on the aluminum risers as the water dumps in pretty early. As I mentioned to you in the pm I think that I can use IMCO's stainless risers to help mitigate reversion issues. The left riser may require some slight alteration to get along with some of the exhaust mods done for the cobra. Your idea would require more patience and research but I do agree that is doable. We do have time so I will do some homework.

The Busch heads and intake is something I need to learn about. I am thinking a 600 cfm 4 bbl. The cam is probably going to be the real trick. I will also need some guidance in that department.

Either way this is going to be fun!

[BUIZILLA]

I need to see pic's of your existing risers and exhaust setup.... I think the reversion concern is a non-issue, as you just move the LC numbers around on the bumpstick, and keep it somewhat mild... I'm thinking a fast ramp, high torque mild hyd. roller cam, staggered 1.6/1.5 roller rockers under stock valve covers, 5200 rpm max range 3500-3800 fast cruise rpm, 650 annular twin pump carb, creative headwork, maybe even a stealth reworked stock intake manifold...

JH

[The Hedgehog]

I need to see pic's of your existing risers and exhaust setup.... I think the reversion concern is a non-issue, as you just move the LC numbers around on the bumpstick, and keep it somewhat mild... I'm thinking a fast ramp, high torque mild hyd. roller cam, staggered 1.6/1.5 roller rockers under stock valve covers, 5200 rpm max range 3500-3800 fast cruise rpm, 650 annular twin pump carb, creative headwork, maybe even a stealth reworked stock intake manifold...
JH
They should be attached

[Lenny]

Not to get off track here, but when I used to go to Vancouver to watch the INDY every year, there were also the "INDY Lights" cars. They were V-6's and I wonder, (even tho not marine applications) what kind of ponies they turned out?

Never mind I just figured it out. :rolleyes:

Engines

Production based V-6 engines have supplied the power for Indy Lights since the series debuted in 1986. Good old fashion 'Detroit Iron,' the engines are derived from the same GM motors that have powered millions of passenger cars and trucks for decades. In race trim, the engines produce 425 horsepower and each unit is sealed to prevent modification by competitors who lease the motors from the series. The cost of an engine lease is $46,000 for a calendar year, and engine rebuilds during the season are $8,000. The American Racing Series (ARS) warrants each engine for 1,000 miles or three race weekends, whichever is less. All engine work is done by drag racing legend "Ohio" George Montgomery at George's Speed Shop in Dayton, Ohio. Bosch spark plugs are standard equipment on all engines.

[BUIZILLA]

geez, this is tooooo easy....

find your self an OMC 4.3 4bbl donor motor, COMPLETE if possible, and get to work.

geez, did I mention this is toooooooooooooooooooooo easy.

JH

[MOP]

Before all the new fancy maniflods and risers an old was to extend the exhaust tube of the riser, this is done by have an extension welded to the existing tube. The risers you have can be easily modified to get the exiting exhaust farther away from the water discharge, it also keep the hoses a little cooler. It a cheap mod with nothing but +'s

Phil

[LKSD]

http://www.foreandaftmarine.com/VO-QL3841717.htm
If this is what you are describing, it looks to me like a GIANT speed scrubber. Like sticking an oar, vertically, into the water at speed.
Is this what you are describing? and if so, is this not intended for inboard, fixed drive angle applications?

To answer your question, they are not supposed to reduce speed or add drag. They are supposed to actually reduce drag by having less running surface than a plane in the water. They are designed to redirect the water flow under the trailing end of the boat wnd have less drag & take up les space doing it. They are also a fluid free unit. Also I have never seen anything claiming they are for an inboard or fixed drive. Matter in fact, the factory literature show them installed & used on Sterndrives an pleasureboats as well.
I will admit, I have not personally installed & tested a set yet. If I dont end up with a 26 or 28zx this spring I am srtongly considering adding them to my 18'. If I do I will definitley post results.
By the way, feel free to check us out when you do need Volvo or Merc parts. My current sale price blows that other place out of the water, and my regular price is their sale price.. Feel free to visit my special page & check them out: http://www.lakesiderestorations.com/specials.phtml ...
I hope I didnt sound rude. But I would never intentionally steer anyone wrong on this site or any other. Im just passing along what I know and can try to help with.. Jamie :)

[Lenny]

To answer your question, they are not supposed to reduce speed or add drag. They are supposed to actually reduce drag by having less running surface than a plane in the water. They are designed to redirect the water flow under the trailing end of the boat wnd have less drag & take up les space doing it. They are also a fluid free unit. Also I have never seen anything claiming they are for an inboard or fixed drive. Matter in fact, the factory literature show them installed & used on Sterndrives an pleasureboats as well.
I will admit, I have not personally installed & tested a set yet. If I dont end up with a 26 or 28zx this spring I am srtongly considering adding them to my 18'. If I do I will definitley post results.
I hope I didnt sound rude.

Jamie, I wasn't trying to be rude either. Everything I have read so far does not explain inn detail how this new patented item truly works. All I can see is that it is a SHORT vertical blade that extends straight down into the water at the transom. I have a hard time understanding how these work and have less drag. I have been reading about them on some European websites and have seen lots of Inboard reference and cruisers etc. Our boats are a lot different. I can't wait to see the results :yes:

Where is CDMA, maybe he can explain this hydro phenon. ? and how it works.

Why not start a fresh thread on this so we can all bandy it about :) and pro and con it.

[BUIZILLA]

BG, I did some checking here.... you can get about 320" out of a V6 setup with a 4.125 bore x 4.00 crank, ya might need a different block and crank though :jestera:

for sure it can go 4.125 x 3.48 with a stock crank......

now, think about that over 2 or 3 beers....

JH

[Rootsy]

sheesh.. i go from wanting to add strake to removing it... :biggrin:

the 16 is really fun when ya get to 80 or so... that takes about 420 crank hp and a short drive... in a boat with a V8...

still think the 16 needs more inner strake and more weight forward...

the V8 really makes for a tight fit in a 16 too... donno if you could get a supercharger pulley in there on a V8 chebby or not due to clearance as it is with a serpentine system and the slight downward angle of the motor... V6 no issues though....

with about 380 crank hp (estimated) and a regular alpha i could only muster in the 68 mph range... and it was all i could do to hang onto it with a 3 blade cleaver (non hydraulic steering)... it was teetering right on the edge... i would think the cobra would result in much of the same scenario...

[mattyboy]

one thing I would be worried about would be to get all that horse power to the water, seems it takes a 4 blade prop and around 25-26 inches of pitch for jamie to get into the 80's do they make such an animal for an omc drive????

[The Hedgehog]

one thing I would be worried about would be to get all that horse power to the water, seems it takes a 4 blade prop and around 25-26 inches of pitch for jamie to get into the 80's do they make such an animal for an omc drive????

Yes indeed! Several options.

[mattyboy]

then the pros out number the cons ! ;)

[smokediver]

The weight difference of the 4.3 and a 5.7 is about 100 lbs. changing over to alum. risers / manifolds saves about 75 lbs. the real difference is the weight of the 5.7 is moved 4 inches forward . not all the weight but the mounts need to go forward 4 inches and the motor is about 4 inches longer . the up side is that the 5.7 is about 2 inches narrower . I was able to drop my 5.7 in without having to remove any accy's other than the drive resevoir and that needed to be mounted on the other side of the bracket is all . I used an old davit as a hoist and put come alongs on different sides of the motor to move it around to get her in place . I did have to remove the plywood "firewall" from the engine compartment and that's about it . A little hint ... The bravo coupler does not have the little extension tube coming off the coupler like some of the alpha's do . that is what probably helped in not having to remove anything other than the exhaust . I feel that the boat does handle a little differently with the weight being a little more forward . Not a bad thing.. just different . need any help , give me a shout .

[The Hedgehog]

You have all given me a number of good comments and ideas. I really appreciate that. It is good to have a good knowledgeable group to bounce ideas like this around.

I have a number things to talk over. Will the historical N/A man loose out with his blower envy and come over to the dark side or will we build a hot N/A v-6? One thing for sure is that something will happen and we will end up with one cool boat for all to enjoy!

Once this takes direction I would like to call on you guys for some more direction.

[mrfixxall]

My father wants to get a little more serious with his 16. It currently has a 4.3 OMC V-6 with Imco Thumpers exiting through the transom. We thought it would be fun to modify the V-6 because it is light and seldomly done.
We plan to start with a 4bbl and Edlebrock Performer manifold and cam combo. It looks like we have plenty of room for a Procharger M-1 setup. We will freshen the engine. Does anyone know if Procharger makes a bolt on kit for this setup? I would not think that it would be too different from what is used on a carbed 350 since the 4.3 is essentially 3/4 of that engine.
I think that we should be able to get the boat to run in the 65-70 mph range. Maybe more if we crank up the boost. I read that Rootsy took his 16 past that mark with a built up small block and discovered some interesting handling characteristics. This boat will be lighter so it may not have as much of a chine walk problem. Does anyone know if anyone else has gone there with the 4.3? I do know of one 16 with a roots blower on that same setup.

Try nos 75--150 hp for 800 bucks cant beat it..Just run a little fatter pill on the fuel side and you will have no problem's and the power is their when you need it....

[LKSD]

Try nos 75--150 hp for 800 bucks cant beat it..Just run a little fatter pill on the fuel side and you will have no problem's and the power is their when you need it....


Yes Nos is nice, but not for long. Its intent was short bursts of speed & power. Not for running open for several minutes or more.. Also the instant power surge of nos to a drive would concern me.. For a 1/4 mile run it is a force to be reckoned with for sure, just not so hot for marine use.. Also what do you do when your blur tank is empty on a nice weekend on the local lake or bay?? Its a neat concept but probably not a wise way to go for a boat thats going to be more of a daily driver.. J :)

[BUIZILLA]

aluminum block...

aluminum heads...

aluminum intake...

aluminum exhaust manifolds...

plastic oil pan...

320 cubic inches...

:umbrella: :idea:

[mrfixxall]

BG, I did some checking here.... you can get about 320" out of a V6 setup with a 4.125 bore x 4.00 crank, ya might need a different block and crank though :jestera:
for sure it can go 4.125 x 3.48 with a stock crank......
now, think about that over 2 or 3 beers....
JH
ok buzz your on to somthing
4.125
x
4.125
x
4.00
x.7854
x
6
=
330.45cid
if he changes the stroke to
3.85
and he could use his stock block he would have a
308.71cid:wavey:

[MOP]

Jim sans the iron that sounds more like a box full of feathers more then a motor hole, may just surprise the heck out of a few!

Phil

[BUIZILLA]

ok buzz your on to somthing
308.71cid:wavey:
she's real fine my 3-0-9

my threeee-ooooh-nine...

gotta good ring to it huh? :biggrin:

[BUIZILLA]

ok buzz your on to somthing
4.125
x
4.125
x
4.00
x.7854
x
6
=
330.45cid
if he changes the stroke to
3.85
and he could use his stock block he would have a
308.71cid:wavey:actually, your math is off a tad...
4.00 crank = 320.73772
3.75 crank = 300.69160
3.48 crank = 279.04182
:cool:

[Just Say N20]

About nitrous; my 1979 18 2+3 had a 350 Chevy (260 Mercruiser) in it. After making sure the fuel pump would maintain at least 7 psi at WOT, I put a 110-125 NOS Powershot on the boat. It came with a 10 lbs tank that I mounted in the middle under the bow to keep it as cool (not in the engine compartment) as possible.

It was an instant 800 rpms, from 4,500 to 5,300 when I ran the cleaver prop. That prop slipped a lot when the button was pushed. I had better luck with a round ear prop, better bite.

Never held the button in for more that 6 or 7 seconds at a time. It was a great rush, and you could usually tell in that amount of time "who was faster."

Never had any engine problems with it. I put 45 hours on the hour meter to use three 10 lbs tanks (which I figure would have been about 75 to 90 seconds per fill).

It would have been more fun to build a strong 350, something that ended up about the same 370ish hp, but I mostly did it because I always wanted to have something that had nitrous on it.

No speed figures as I did this in the early 90s, before GPS was as affordable and available.

It was a kick, though. I still smile when thinking about it, but I wouldn't do it again. Blower......:eek:

[MOP]

actually, your math is off a tad...
4.00 crank = 320.73772
3.75 crank = 300.69160
3.48 crank = 279.04182
:cool:

I bet the:smileybo: just love when you talk like that:garfield:

[mrfixxall]

actually, your math is off a tad...
4.00 crank = 320.73772
3.75 crank = 300.69160
3.48 crank = 279.04182
:cool:


oops,their i go again..i pushed the wrong button on the old texas instrument.
320.73cid
thanx buiz:beer:

[The Hedgehog]

aluminum block...
aluminum heads...
aluminum intake...
aluminum exhaust manifolds...
plastic oil pan...
320 cubic inches...
:umbrella: :idea:

Even lighter! This will be a fresh water only boat but would I still need to do anything special to fight corrosion. I know that some of the manufacturers of aluminum heads put a special coating on them.

[The Hedgehog]

There is a whole world of goodies out there for the 4.3. The rail buggy folks love these. It appears that to get to 4.125 we are getting into dry sump land. 4.00 is still wet. The alum heads are readily available. We will probably want to have them custom built with inconnel exhaust valves. Buizilla is right, we can get this thing to 320 hp no problem. With some attention to the cam and heads, 350+ is doable in the marine environment. It will require some homework.
What about a price list on some of those blocks etc? I found some bare 18 degree CNC'd heads for $1,500
Does anyone know where I can get a book on the v-6? The last time I did an engine swap I got a good education on some of the subtle changes that can cause lots of headaches at the last minute.

[LKSD]

Jamie, I wasn't trying to be rude either. Everything I have read so far does not explain inn detail how this new patented item truly works. All I can see is that it is a SHORT vertical blade that extends straight down into the water at the transom. I have a hard time understanding how these work and have less drag. I have been reading about them on some European websites and have seen lots of Inboard reference and cruisers etc. Our boats are a lot different. I can't wait to see the results :yes:
Where is CDMA, maybe he can explain this hydro phenon. ? and how it works.
Why not start a fresh thread on this so we can all bandy it about :) and pro and con it.

Lenny, I didnt think you were rude at all, Thats why I wanted to make sure that I hopefully didn't sound rude either... :) As far as why the things are supposed to have less drag, I think its because the water deflection is more pronounced, but there is less wetted surface from their tabs than a conventional tab. In other words a 8" x 1" Tab altering the same ammount of water flow as a 8"x10" tab would in theory potentially have less drag. At least I guess thats what Volvo's theory is from what I have read..
Happy New year... Jamie :)

[BUIZILLA]

It appears that to get to 4.125 we are getting into dry sump land. 4.00 is still wet. not true at all, the 10185051 iron block will go 4.150 and it's wet sump, 10205294 is 4.00 bore stock replacement and wet sump, 14011069 is aluminum bow tie 4.00 and wet sump, 10134371 is aluminum 4.125 bore safe and 4.00 crank safe, all are wet sump... no fuel pump boss on the 10134371 though.... 18* heads are tricky for intake/exhaust manifolds purchase...

JH

[mrfixxall]

There is a whole world of goodies out there for the 4.3. The rail buggy folks love these. It appears that to get to 4.125 we are getting into dry sump land. 4.00 is still wet. The alum heads are readily available. We will probably want to have them custom built with inconnel exhaust valves. Buizilla is right, we can get this thing to 320 hp no problem. With some attention to the cam and heads, 350+ is doable in the marine environment. It will require some homework.
What about a price list on some of those blocks etc? I found some bare 18 degree CNC'd heads for $1,500
Does anyone know where I can get a book on the v-6? The last time I did an engine swap I got a good education on some of the subtle changes that can cause lots of headaches at the last minute.

Ware to buy thease blocks???gm performance parts.com good luck....

[BUIZILLA]

I just got prices on all the blocks, I should have availability by the end of the day

[Rootsy]

I just got prices on all the blocks, I should have availability by the end of the day

you are such a troublemaker ;)

[BUIZILLA]

Take your pick, all of the blocks are available within one week, maybe less...

JH

[The Hedgehog]

BUIZILLA I sent you a PM