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gcarter
12-25-2005, 12:09 PM
I love old boats.......
I don't want to own one, well maybe I do, but I'm more of a wannabe historian. It's always been fun for me to trace where power boats came from and how they've gotten to be where they are. I think I have a pretty good handle on it up till the mid 50's.
Recently someone had a comment about my avatar, thinking it was some old Chris Craft. It's not, in fact it's Gar Wood's "Miss America I", a VERY important step in American high speed power boating. It was built in the mid 20's, was powered by two warmed over Liberty V-12 aircraft engines each producing about 600 HP and had a top speed of about 80 MPH.
Well, today I was looking through the December 10th, 1926 issue of MotorBoating magazine.
There were a couple of adds I found that were more indicative of normal, upper income boaters, and what they had to work with.
The first is out of the classifieds and it features an unpowered Hacker 32' runabout, but more interesting is the 8 cylinder Sterling Dolphin at the bottom. This engine is about 9' long, weighs 3250#, and produces 200 HP at 1400 RPM! WOW! Todays cost of this engine would be $42,238.53!!!!!!!
Again, these are marine engines, not aircraft engines, which were less reliable.
Digger's brother's Packard Gold cup engine in his race boat was originally $6,000.00, or today, $63,397.00. Pretty pricey for a time when the average income was only about $1,500.00.
The second ad is of a 150 HP Kermath six. It developed this power at 1800 RPM. This particular engine was remarkably advanced. It had a single overhead cam, and four valves per cylinder, and weighed only 1145#.
Todays cost would be $24,302.00. Just think, the average worker would have to work only 16.2 years to buy only the engine of his boat!!!!:shocking:
I think I'm glad I'm alive now.

olredalert
12-25-2005, 02:00 PM
George,

--------Pic of Kermath is very timely as I just saw one. Went to dinner the other night in Port Huron at the Thomas Edison Inn, and down one hallway in a glass case was a fully restored Kermath and full description of its uses over the years and advancements. What a forward thinking design!..........Bill S

gcarter
12-25-2005, 02:49 PM
Bill, I've always been a big fan of the Kermath, particularly the 500 HP version of this engine in a V-12 form.

DonziJon
12-25-2005, 03:19 PM
George: What is Diggers brothers race boats name? The only old race boat that I'm aware of that has a Packard Gold Cup engine is "Scotty". The engine in that boat came out of a replica of "Miss Columbia" owned by a guy from Arizona. I think "Miss Columbia" sold recently. Packard Gold Cup engines that are still running are pretty rare. DJ

gcarter
12-25-2005, 03:39 PM
Bingo! Scotty it is.

gcarter
12-25-2005, 03:43 PM
But then there's Juno, but of course, Juno wasn't
really a race boat.

DonziJon
12-25-2005, 05:35 PM
Hi George: I remember JUNO. I think that was one of those boats built for the Chinese as a torpedo boat. It was a hydroplane. Don't make me look it up.....but I thought they had a Hisso..NO??? If I'm wrong, it wasn't me, it was the fine wine. I'm not responsible. DJ

gcarter
12-25-2005, 06:26 PM
Bingo!
You're right again, ALL the Chinese boats had Hissos.
Juno was an extra hull that, somehow, ended up with a Gold Cup in it.
It's been to Mt. Dora more times than I can remember.
You should come down sometime for that fine event.

DonziJon
12-25-2005, 07:21 PM
George: You made me look it up. I havn't verified the Hisso Thing but I have confirmed the Packard Gold Cup engine in JUNO. 1937 Ventnor, Hull # 306. What suprises me however is the original Packard 6 was 260 HP. Juno's is listed as 350HP. (Clayton: 1996.) The owner is listed as living in Sarasota...Does that sound right??

I think "Scotty" has an "alternate" modern V-8. Must be nice to have two motors for your boat. DJ

PS: Have you seen this : http://www.vintageraceboatshop.com/miss_america_vii.htm I got a ride in Miss America VII a few years ago. Never forget it.

DonziJon
12-25-2005, 08:08 PM
George: My wife just remembered for me: The day we went for a ride in "Miss America VII," on Lake Winni, NH, as a guest of Mark Mason: The owner of JUNO was there as well. He drove Barbara Magnuson's Donzi 16 as a chase boat to America VII. How can I forget. ;) I met the new owner of Barbara's old Donzi 16 this past September. He has a place on Alton Bay. Small World

gcarter
12-25-2005, 08:45 PM
What suprises me however is the original Packard 6 was 260 HP. Juno's is listed as 350HP. (Clayton: 1996.) The owner is listed as living in Sarasota...Does that sound right??
Interesting.....
The particular issue I posted the pics from, lists the Packard at 260 HP and the V-12 version of it at 500 HP. I wouldn't be surprised at a 350 HP rating though as the original engines only had about a 4:1 CR.

gcarter
12-25-2005, 09:11 PM
The article you posted the link to had at least one error, but understandable. It says Marion Carstairs Estelle IV had three 12 cyl engines. In fact it had only two, but they were Napier Lion W-12 engines. W engines are a shape we're not familiar with here in the states.
I wish I could find out more about this boat. Here's a pic that's been published a bunch of times. I think it's a beautiful boat.

Cuda
12-25-2005, 09:12 PM
I saw Juno running around at Mt Dora in 2004. It looked like it was moving along pretty good. :)

gcarter
12-25-2005, 09:18 PM
Joe, I think Juno is good for about 80. Not bad for a 75 year ofl boat!

MOP
12-26-2005, 09:22 AM
Nice post George, it is fun to get into the history of boating. I have been lucky enough to catch the Antique Boat Show up a 1K on several occations. I think it would be nice to schedule one of the Donzi runs to coinside with the show, I know many of our members would enjoy it. Many of the replicas have late model engines that our guys would droll over.

Phil

gcarter
12-26-2005, 11:36 AM
I found another pic of Estelle V........
Not bad for a 37 year old single girl!!!!!

DonziJon
12-26-2005, 06:26 PM
George: I think you and I are on the same page. ...Old Boats. You made some reference to the "Dubya" .."W" configuration engine. There was also the "X" and the "H" configurations... I think all aviation. There was always someone willing and able to adapt them to Marine use. Packard and Napier were instrumental in this development. There are two books that I think are invaluable in this area: ... "Packards At Speed", ...& "Master Motor Builders", both by Robert J. Neal. Anyone interested in Engines need to check these volumes out. Lots of info on the "Miss Americas". DJ

DonziJon
12-26-2005, 06:33 PM
I found another pic of Estelle V........
Not bad for a 37 year old single girl!!!!!

Betty Carstairs was "Hot". I wonder why her boats were named Estelle???:lookaroun

gcarter
12-26-2005, 07:13 PM
Probably the name of one of her girlfriends. :banghead: