Yo Lenny....This is up your ally!

[gcarter]

Take a look.....

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051219/AUTO01/512190366

[olredalert]

George,

--------Know the Shefenacker plant well as its just up the street. You cant blame them, can you??? They all feel that union higher-ups are just lining thier own pockets at the expense of the worker. This is a movement you are going to see more of in the near future as the union keeps pressing businesses that have givin all that they can and more than they ever should have away. I dont blame the unions solely as upper management has alot of blame as well. They have caved in too easily for years when the going was good to keep the assembly lines going, and now they are reaping the disastrous benefits of that thinking. Shame on both groups!.........Bill S

[Lenny]

George, it is 20 to 4 (am) here and I just read that. Yes, believe it or not, I tend to agree. The pendulum has swung a bit too far for the economic climate we now find ourselves living in. I would add more, but I have been at "work" since 8 am yesterday, is is now almost 4 am the next day and I am working on fixing a dead "mux" for a Lucent ADSL switch in time for Xmas.

Just don't have the energy right now to get into it. :(

Tomorrow, or is that later today, I will jump on board.

[gcarter]

I'm anxious to hear what you have to say. I hope you get some sleep.

[Lenny]

...awake... sort of...George, this will be an interesting one to watch.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/12/20/nyc.transit/index.html

Talk about timing and inconvenience.

[txtaz]

Anyone have figures on what Union costs on business is?
I would bet it is much less than the $400 million a day they are costing New York right now.
Da Taz

[Schnook]

I was a member of the steelworkers for 8 years, IMO a union is a double edged sword. It protects honest workers from unfair labor practices, but it also protects lazy workers who know they cannot be disciplined, and it seemed like being elected a union rep was a ticket to easy street. No wonder membership is spiraling down. As with any business, if there's no value added or return on investment the customer (in this case rank and file) is going to look elsewhere. Taz, I wish we could've stayed in S.A. Toyota is building their new plant and my former coworkers from Alcoa are going there. Toyota knows the value of not having a union to contend with. They go above and beyond to ensure there is no reason to consider organizing. My best friend just got back from 3 weeks in Japan training in robotics, which I could have been doing, but that's another whine, uh, thread. Unions had their time, but unless they radically overhaul their M.O., they'll go the way of the Dodo bird and US Steel.

[gcarter]

Lenny, I'm surprised and pleased to read your answer.
And the NY folks should be fired, they broke the law.
I largely agree with Schnook, There was a time, from the late 19th century to WW II, unions played an important role. Obviously the Japanese have shown us that good labor relations can exist W/O unions, largely by the merit system.

[Lenny]

Hmmmm, warming up to this now George. Almost ready to post. Fingers are locked and loaded.

Late tho.

I'll check this thread in the morning at work and try to fit a response in, between watching Ebay and surfing the Net while I am at my UNION job and have $uck all to do all day other than get my hair cut on Company time and go for beers at lunch with some bro's. After that I have to get my Christmas shopping done in the Company truck before quitting time...glad I ain't paying for the gas... BUSY DAY AHEAD

:D

...easy George, just playing... ;)

[Rootsy]

protecting workers and getting them a "fair" wage and benefit package and safe healthy working environments are one thing.. and by all means i am all for that form of unionization.. if that is what it takes for a management team to do it for their workers... but IMO the UAW has become a fat lazy gluttonous pig of an organization... and ultimately WE (every single one of us) has had to pay for that in one way or another... :umbrella:

[gcarter]

Jamie, you're right.
IMO, if the lowest guy on the union totem pole makes more than their customers, their products are no longer competitive. Look at Europe, for instance, they can't export ANYTHING outside of ther luxury range of cars because they're not competitive. The Frogs and Eyetals haven't exported here in more than 15 years......did you ever wonder why?
The Japanese can and do though.......hmmmm........

[TuxedoPk]

Personally, I'd like to see the demise of all unions in this country. Yes, there definately was a point in history where they served a useful purpose to protect the rights of workers. But this is 2005.

Today we have laws that protect the rights of all workers against many of the abuses that at one time existed and legislation continues to make improvements in that area. It wasn't the UAW who got workers FMLA, and Cobra benefits.

To view the necessity of non-management jobs falling under the 'protection' of a union in today's economy would be taking a position that as a country we are taking advantage of all our laborers who work in non union positions.

Union 'Protection' today is nothing more than when Vinny and Guido make their weekly stops at local businesses to collect their 'protection' fees- the only difference is Union leaders where better clothes and they've automated the collection of 'protection' feees to automatic payroll withdrawal.