Volvo Or Eaton?? [Archive] - The Donzi Registry

Magicallbill

12-17-2005, 12:43 PM

Matt; Lenny;Mop;Anybody?

As some of you know, I bought Jerry Esiele's(sp?) '67 Ski Sport,and finally, light is seen at the end of the "Restoration Tunnel."
SITUATION...
My mechanic is currently getting the drive ready,(tilt mechanisim, hydraulic steering,etc.) While performing these tasks, he has been into the drive enough that he's almost convinced its an Eaton. He has an Eaton in his shop,and he says the parts match up to it more than a Volvo.
Jerry gave some literature on the drive which says its a 250 Aquamatic. It looks like a Volvo,but my guy working on the boat says there was a "blurry period" where the last of the Eaton Drives looked like the Volvo's before they switched over.
QUESTION
The only Eaton Drives I've ever seen are the ones on this site;The wierd looking things that fold over to the side of the transom...Could I have an Eaton drive like my mechanic says?
Jerry might have a shot of the drive when he owned the boat. I have no pics yet, but when the boat is done there will be plently..
What do you guys think? I'm sure I'll be asked plently of questions when the boat goes out, and I'd be embarrassed if i couldn't classify the drive on my own boat!

Magical Bill

Tony

12-17-2005, 01:07 PM

Bill, my '67 Ski Sporter came with Eaton literature, but has a Volvo PN indicating it is an AQ200b. So, yes, there indeed was a blurry period where Eaton morphed into Volvo...and it happened right around 1967!

Lenny

12-17-2005, 02:03 PM

Bill, if you bought it from Jerry, what did Jim Best buy from Jerry or are you Jim ;)

Hull 16-414 1967 for sure

http://www.donzi.net/hull.cfm?id=469

http://www.donzi.net/hull.cfm?id=1043368181

I'd say Volvo looking at pic below... :confused:

http://www.donzi.net/hull/16414/scan0003.jpg

penbroke

12-17-2005, 02:56 PM

Some of the early boats like Tony's and my '66 were originaly equipped with "Interceptor" power plants. The package was sold by the Eaton Marine Division of Eaton, Yale & Towne, Inc. They consisted of small block Ford engines mated with private labeled Volvo 200 drives. I don't know if there are any Volvo labeled 200 drives or if that started with the 250. Most sources that I have for parts and information on these drives don't show a Volvo drive before 1968 and most don't show the 200 at all.

There are subtle differences between the 200 and 250 drives. If it is still apart count the gear teeth in the upper and lower and do the math. The overall ratio for the V8 200 drive is 1.59:1 and the 250 drive is 1.61:1.

Frank

Lenny

12-17-2005, 03:05 PM

If it is still apart count the gear teeth in the upper and lower and do the math. The overall ratio for the V8 200 drive is 1.59:1 and the 250 drive is 1.61:1.
Frank

Frank, isn't the "upper gear set" nothing more than a 1-1 gearset to change the input direction from horizontal to vertical?

The gearset that establishes the drive ratio is in the lower where the prop shaft centerline meets the vertical shaft. Torpedo front.

Nice pic, I want your barrelback :D

Tony

12-17-2005, 03:27 PM

Yeah...what Frank said.
My literature is "Interceptor", and my AQ200b gear ratio is 1.59:1.
Incidentally, my Hull # is 16-420.

penbroke

12-17-2005, 03:31 PM

Frank, isn't the "upper gear set" nothing more than a 1-1 gearset to change the input direction from horizontal to vertical?
The gearset that establishes the drive ratio is in the lower where the prop shaft centerline meets the vertical shaft. Torpedo front.
Nice pic, I want your barrelback :D

Yes, The ratio is in the lower. But I think there is 1 tooth difference in the upper gear set. So the same teeth don't always mesh with the same teeth. There was a thread here but I can't find it just now. In trying to tell the difference between 1.59:1 and 1.61:1 that 1 tooth may be significant.

I wish I had a hull number. I guess when mine was built they figured there were so few that they could just remember.:rolleyes:

Frank
No need to reduce the fleet just yet.

boldts

12-17-2005, 05:54 PM

Lenny, Jim Best bought Jerry's tan and red 22 Classic. 86 or 7 I believe? Bill, can't wait to see your finished pictures. Not positive cause I only saw the 16 a couple times, but I believe it has the Volvo not an Eaton. You should have a serial number to identify it somewhere?

BillG

12-17-2005, 10:38 PM

The picture in this thread is a Volvo 200 drive. The difference between the 200 and 250 is mainly the diameter of the lower gear case and the lower water pickup on the 250 drive. These drives were marketed as Holman-Moody, Chrysler, Intercepter, and of course Volvo.

Bill G

Magicallbill

12-18-2005, 02:40 AM

Len&Scott..
Okay, now I'm totally confused. I own a Blue/White Ski Sporter that my son bought from Jerry a couple years ago in the fall.
I clicked on your link, Lenny,and saw that this Jim Best bought the same boat..250 Volvo,white cushions and all. It's right there in the registry.
1.) Either jerry owned 2 identical boats,and sold one to Jim and myself
2.) Scott is right and Mr. Best bought a newer Donzi,and there's a misprint in the registry.

And all I wanted to do was find out if it had an Eaton Drive.....

Jerry,where are you??

MB

mattyboy

12-18-2005, 06:59 AM

if this is hull 414 I think jerry sold it and re bought it back then sold it again now Bill has it
my hulll 410 was originally powered from the factory with a 289 interceptor and an eaton drive than repowered by Holman Moody Marine in Ca. in 69 to a 351 250 combo, I have seen Franks and Tony's drives they are more volvo than eatons you can see similarities to the 250 and some differences
the cav plate is a little different the transom housing is almost identical except for one has a big rubber pad and the other has 2 rubber dots for stops as the drive is picked up
post some pics
if my theory is correct you have no coring but a pvc pipe supported deck and an old style donzi wheel in that boat
bill I would be curious has to where your water pick up is???
this now sheds some light on a question I had on what transom work was done on my boat
it looks like the transom cut out is original so maybe I had a Volvo/eaton 200 they did have to fill and fair the old exhaust ports going from a 289 to a 351
so this boat was probably at the factory at the same time as Tony's and Mine

mattyboy

12-18-2005, 08:03 AM

Magicallbill

12-18-2005, 03:30 PM

Matty,
I have E-Mailed Jerry and asked him if he could post any pics of his drive..

Or,uh,my drive...

I'll see if the guy doing the project can snap a couple and post them if Jerry hasn't any.

mattyboy

12-19-2005, 01:23 PM

Bill I would say you have the same drives as Penbroke and Tony
look at the back of the drive on my 250 I have a shift cover that has one screw on the top and 2 on the bottom, if you look at the pics Lenny posted of your boat it has the same screw/bolt config has Tony's and Penbroke's 2 on the top and one on the bottom i would say it is a aq 200

mattyboy

12-19-2005, 02:37 PM

actually looking at it again the 2 screws on the bottom on the 250 one is on the cover one is part of the drive housing

Jerry Eisele

12-19-2005, 08:25 PM

I did sell the 67 blue Donzi to Jim Besst, but he really wanted the red 22'. So I purchused the 16 back from Jim and sold him our 22', 86, red Donzi. He has run it for the past three years. Bills son purchused the 67' blue Donzi after Jim traded it back to me. Jim wanted a bigger boat for Lake Erie. I always thought the drive was a volvo, but I could be wrong?? Bill, I emailed you three pics.

Lenny

12-19-2005, 08:39 PM

WOW Jerry, ;) , do you own the rights to the Movie ??? :D

Magicallbill

12-19-2005, 10:10 PM

Matty..
I have the pics that Jerry was good enough to send me. I am Computer-Challenged,so my son will be over tomorrow,and will post them on the site here under this post...So, if I indeed have an AQ200b,is that a Volvo,Eaton,or hybrid?..I'm still a little confused as Tony said he received Eaton Literature with his,and Pembroke said there was no record of Volvo's before '68, I think.
Jerry,
Thanks for the pics and the explanation of the "Jim Best Era." I looked at the shot of the boat under Jim's name in the registry,and thought I'd lost my mind..

Magicallbill

12-20-2005, 07:44 PM

Jason here posting the pics we got from Jerry.

penbroke

12-20-2005, 07:51 PM

To answer your original question I expect you could call it either an "Eaton Interceptor" or a "Volvo 200" without getting into too much trouble. I call mine a Volvo because more people know what that is. Most anyone that would recognize the Eaton name for drives will think of the drive that swings up to the side.

Or you could just paint it black and cause much confusion. :D

Frank

BillG

12-20-2005, 08:19 PM

I think there is some confusion about Volvo drives. There were two drives before the AQ200, the 100A & B. These drives are very similar in looks to an Eaton drive. The first one had a dog clutch and the second had a cone clutch like the 200 and all subsequent drives. The drive pictured is an AQ 200. I had one on my 66 2+3. I now have a 250 on it. Just my 2 cents added to this conversation.

Bill G

Magicallbill

12-21-2005, 12:52 AM

BillG&Pembroke..
Thanks for the replys...
The whole idea and concept I have for this boat is to show off the "Retro" aspect of it(with new power-I'd love to have had a Holman-Moody in it).
Therefore, it's interesting to me what brand of Drive is behind it,heck, it's that much more to talk about.
Maybe as I learn more about the boat, I'll get hip to the mechanical terms and parts that make it up, but for now, anything explained to me has to be in plain English,or it'll blow by..

Matt..
Jerry's pics are above,courtesy of Jason;What's your take on the drive brand,now that you can see it?
In answer to your water pickup query,I believe Jerry had an attachment that you could hook a hose to on the top of the transom on the port side. My mechanic is rigging it now so that muffs can be used,like a Merc.

Lenny

12-21-2005, 03:18 AM

MB, nice boat. :yes: jealous

We need to wait for Matty as he is busy getting transfers.

Probably waiting for a Bus... :D Damn Unions

Pop the Toast 20 minutes sooner Matty. Coffee 30. Busses :rolleyes:

mattyboy

12-21-2005, 07:45 AM

KDG

12-21-2005, 11:23 AM

here's an eaton drive the spin to the side ones on a 66 triple hatch you can see the difference in the transom shield /plate
http://www.donzi.net/cat/cat66/pix/66-18-2p3bw.gif
oh i forgot to mention it also has the 2 clamshell vents like Tony's and mine ;)

Matty,

How does the Windstar do as a tow vehicle? I have a 2003 Windstar (until Oct 06' when the lease expires) and will use it to tow my 18' barrelback.

Thanks,

Kurt

penbroke

12-21-2005, 11:42 AM

Tony, Frank?? where does your water come from??

The lake. :jestera: Mine uses the pick-up in the drive.

Frank

Tony

12-21-2005, 01:20 PM

The lake. :jestera: Mine uses the pick-up in the drive.
Frank

Good one, Frank!

Mine gets water from the pick-up in the drive, but as you know there is no pump like on a Merc. We rely on the belt-driven Jabsco, and it does fine. I will be putting a tee on the inlet line to make winterizing, or running it on the hose, easier.

Don't hold your breath waiting for it to die, Volvos last forever. I am almost anxious for mine to take a crap so I can try a 280 or 290 DP. Anybody know where I could get one...cheap?

mattyboy

12-21-2005, 02:17 PM

Matty,
How does the Windstar do as a tow vehicle? I have a 2003 Windstar (until Oct 06' when the lease expires) and will use it to tow my 18' barrelback.
Thanks,
Kurt

not sure on an 18, my rig is just around 3000-3300 lbs depending on fuel and equipment and it is a tandem trailer which is overkill for a 16 it tows very nicely, braking is ok at best none on the trailer, my windstar has the bigger v6 and is rated at 3500lbs towing.
It has made the spring and fall lake george for the last 4 years a 400 mile round trip and has made the 1000 isles event the last 2 years a 600 mile round trip in mountainous upstate new york plus smaller day trips to the tune of probably 1000-1200 miles a summer , the front wheel drive is good around the ramps but i credit the towing ability of my rig totally on the trailer it is well balanced solid and tows like a sports car has dr dan says, if you are staying local my ramp is like 2 blocks away the windstar should be fine, not sure on the engine combos on the newer windstar and freestars but i think you are pushing it with an 18 setup but maybe an alum tandem trailer with brakes you might be ok
oh and if you tow to events be prepared to have you chops busted on towing with a windstar all in good fun tho ;) :)

Magicallbill

12-22-2005, 10:26 AM

Bill,
the reason I ask about where the water gets picked up , on my boat my pickup is in the hull, now to me the only reason to drill a hole in the bottom of the boat to get cooling water would be that it could not get water from the drive?? hence my question maybe my boat had an e drive on it at one time??
Tony, Frank?? where does your water come from??
Bill that is the drive that came with the boat I would keep it till it dies, and if you want to restore it holman moody is not the way, they weren't in the picture in 66-67 I would keep it has close to original as possible
for all intensive purposes it is a volvo now you have to find an ultra
today is matinee day in the city with the strike there will be kaos
Yeah,
I will be prop-testing when (if) the ice goes away.. I asked Lenny about prop-combo's for the rig,and he said(I think) that I would need a 23 Ultra. Anything less with my engine and I would,in his words,"spin it into outer space."
I have a 347 Ford with ,according to the printout performance sheet, 365HP at 5000RPM w/383 FT Lbs of Torque. It puts out 397HP at 5900RPM,but I'm assuming that if we allowed it to turn that fast, the drive would head into outer space too...
Thanks for our help & insight..
Tell you what, Len, we'll go for a spin sometime, if I can get a ride in your blue(x-18?)...
MB..

Lenny

12-22-2005, 10:55 AM

Magical Bill. I said a 23" Solas from Grizzly, a Titan I think is what he is selling. A 23" Ultra (they don't make 'em, even numbers only I believe) would spin into another galaxy. What I am running now is a 24" ULTRA and I see 5400 rpms all day long. That is spinning. When I put Grizz's 21"P x 14 4/5" NEW SOLAS TITAN on my revs went to 4400 TOPS, barely, and with almost no slip. I have what is basically a stock motor (350).

That is why I said a 23" prop, but not an Ultra, but one of Solas (Grizz's). They bite 10 times better than an Ultra. Less torque steer etc. I wish I could spin IT to 5400 and see where I end up but, alas, not enough ponies. (yet :D)

I will take you up on the ride offer :D next time I am "in town"... :)