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View Full Version : 16 CLASSIC Hulls, what DON'T you like about 'em?



Lenny
12-12-2005, 06:55 PM
I don't mean the length, the slow speed hook and such, but is it that they are "light" in the ass end or run too high in back?

What is the general feeling about the ride angle here?

Rootsy
12-12-2005, 07:31 PM
well lenny, FWIW here are my few feelings...

the CG is too far aft... if you have it full of fuel it runs much better than if it is empty... even with a significantly lightened engine. when you get low on fuel it really will launch itself quite vertically in rough water... such as 2 - 3 footers on st. clair...

lack of inner strake. which i feel causes it to really be wishy washy at high speed... induces chinewalk when overpowered and overtrimmed.. and also helps add to the light bow situation. i understand this was all done in the 60's to begin with when there were untrimmable drives and low output powerplants and such, good valid reasons for what was done, but that was then... this is now... with todays drive and powerplant engineering i think you could really add strake back to it similar to the 18 and get much better performance and ride... especially with trimmable drives and propeller technology of today.

the hook really isn't an issue at cruise and higher speed operation... it really isn't in the water... you are riding on the outer strake inward if you look at some photos and such... at high speed my 16 literally riding on very little hull... actually you could really get rid of the hook and just alleviate one more feature out of the mold...

V8 engine clearance... front of the motor is just sooo friggin tight to the rear seat...

fuel tank location... i think it could really benefit from moving foward a couple of feet...

again JMHO...

J

Sam
12-12-2005, 09:05 PM
Although I agree with most of what Rootsy said we can't forget it is what it is.............. a 16' boat. Based on it's size and design it has it's limits just like the 18' and 22'.
I can tell you this from first hand experience it is very sensitive to prop design and weight disribution. With the right prop it will behave put the wrong prop on and watch out. Right now I am fighting an issue related to to much stern lift. Is the a design problem, no it's an issue that I created by forcing a lot of HP through an Alpha SS. In other words I am asking the boat to do something that it was not designed to do :banghead: .

If I was to start with a clean piece of paper and design a 16' boat that I wanted to run a lot of HP through an Alpha SS It probably would look different than my current boat.

Ok enough of that to answer your question Lenny I have no probem with ride angle. I have power trim and tabs which will allow me to adjust for almost anything. Now if I didn't have those tools to work with I would be writing a totaly different response. Now a question for you, why do you ask your question :wink: .

Sam

Lenny
12-12-2005, 09:33 PM
Now a question for you, why do you ask your question :wink: .
Sam

I am cutting up another deck, 65-67 Sixteen to be exact. I am doing another "butcher job" while the glass is still out, the tools, and before I go into fairing and paint work on the 18. This is something I have to do 'cuz it is NOT restorable by any means, but it is able to accept fillers and become a deck plug.

I thought stern lift was the problem and hence, moving a driver and passenger aft would help. Sounds like Jamie thinks it is not far enough forward. ???

Then there is the scenario where 2 folks sit in back, waaayyy back, and you move the drive in front of you (750 pounds) add a driveshaft of additonal length and place 350 pounds of humans at the transom. :D Think 16' CRACKERBOX, I had one as a kid and the memories linger.

Maybe (probably) it won't work,... no biggy. then the back half of the hull will become a "cooler/picnic trailer" , (wheel wells) with an opening engine hatch for picnic "refreshments" c/w non-functional thru-hulls and vents and running lights :D

MOP
12-12-2005, 09:57 PM
Though my 16 was a puppy compared to the haulers above, I feel that moving the tank and firewall a tad forward would help that and 2+2 seating would make it an even greater boat. You heard me right I still think it is a great boat I just got to old and crotchety for it, my arm chair 22 treats my old butt better.

Phil

Danny
12-13-2005, 02:15 PM
Bubbles
I like your avatar. A Canadian icon.
I like the idea for Crackerbox style. That is really what I want to do with a Hunt 16.
Older 16's I though were designed to be a wethull, keep the bow down, keep those short inner strakes in the water and make the boat track straight with no chime walk. I have stuffed mine and hooked the bow on several occassions trying to keep the nose down. Get the nose too high - chine walk or you simply go vertical in rougher seas like Rootsy suggests.
So many variables today, tabs, trim, props that add lift and bigger horsepower. So much depends on what you want and everyone is different. Tabs and trim allow us to change under varing conditions, load and sea conditions. Some want to cruise at 40 with a couple of friends and others want to push it to speeds unknown. I want it all . In a 38 year old 16 foot boat , thats achievable isn't it?
Get rid of the hook, lengthen the stakes, pad the hull, lengthen the hull (just kidding) Where does it stop?
I'm still sorting out mechanical options. I had to store my project for this year while building a new shop. Hopefully in the spring we will get to see what difference a 280TE and hydraulic steering makes. I'll get to the hull when I have exhausted all the those possibilities.
Just my 2 Canadian cents which are only worth about a penny and a half.
Danny

mattyboy
12-13-2005, 03:09 PM
I agree the cog of the boat is to far astern mine is a different boat with a full load of fuel it is faster ( I can go faster under control) with a full tank
when I am light on fuel I get the as Bertramboy says" don't ever do that again" feeling

again mine is probably 250lbs heavier than a new 16 in the ass end
another thing would be lower the seats an inch or 2 giving you more of an in the boat not on the boat feeling

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15210&d=1128434090

Rootsy
12-14-2005, 06:17 AM
have to agree with you there matty... lower the front seats... even with me being short it is uncomfortable for me... i sit too high to stretch my legs out to brace against the foot well. without having my thighs pressing firmly against the underside of the dash board.. makes for wonderful bruises...

mattyboy
12-14-2005, 07:55 AM
see I sit about 4 inches lower has my bucket seat is bolted directly to the floor so I never really had the on the boat feeling til I let Marie drive and I sat up front :eek:

AC18Classic
12-14-2005, 09:12 AM
Yes lower the seats. Donzi should redesign the round bucket seats and replace them with better-fitted seat with a higher back for more support + drop the floor as far as possible "2 to 6 inches". This would make the 16 & 18 an awesome boat.

RickSE
12-14-2005, 10:22 AM
You know the seats in my 1996 18 were mounted on sliders which were mounted directly to the floor with a small riser, no pedestals. The first 16 I saw was a 1998 and I was surprised to see the seats on pedestals, way too high for my tastes. Put those seats on the floor.

FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack
12-14-2005, 12:10 PM
I like the Crackerbox idea! My first boat was a Crackerbox. You'd be surprised how much softer the ride is when you're sitting "over the hinge" as it were. It feels very natural to me to be behind the engine. A 16' Deep V Crackerbox sounds like a trick ride!
Tell me though, would you keep the outdrive and run a covered driveshaft between the seats to the transom, or would you plug the transom and run a conventional propshaft out the bottom with a strut and rudder?

Eric

Lenny
12-14-2005, 01:10 PM
Conventional set-up with drive shaft, narrow "partition" between the two passengers from under deck/dash area butting into seat back, becoming an arm rest/storage facility, (or throttles/shifter if so inclined (as is my Bench 18). An extended drive shaft to I/O running through the length of this cavity, side mount Corsa exhaust, rear hull side exit. I just think about the glasswork part, someone mechanically inclined can figure the rest out. :D

How can you tell it is "winter" :rolleyes:

My Crackerbox was 14' as a kid (14-16) OB powered. It was all but impossible to stuff, I remember that. Flat entry and bottom. It always popped up. :)

Sam
12-14-2005, 03:10 PM
My 16 and I have a love hate relationship but here a few simple design changes I would like see.

1. Enlarge the hatch opening behind the rear seat. It's almost impossible to time the engine from the top of the engine hatch. If the seat hatch opening was bigger you could stick a timing lite in there with no problem.

2. Add a bottom pad and or extend the inner most bottom strakes back towards the transom. By doing this I think you would help the chine walking a great deal.

Rootsy
12-14-2005, 04:43 PM
My 16 and I have a love hate relationship but here a few simple design changes I would like see.
1. Enlarge the hatch opening behind the rear seat. It's almost impossible to time the engine from the top of the engine hatch. If the seat hatch opening was bigger you could stick a timing lite in there with no problem.
2. Add a bottom pad and or extend the inner most bottom strakes back towards the transom. By doing this I think you would help the chine walking a great deal.

wha... wha.. whaat do you mean sam? i can time your engine... :boggled:

so when are you gettin an 18???

Sam
12-14-2005, 06:58 PM
Oh ! that's right, that was you hanging upside down :jestera: .

Rootsy
12-15-2005, 06:32 AM
don't forget the mirror sam, what a fiasco eh :rolleyes:

the hatch location on my 16 is to the port of C/L of the boat. #1 this is because with the serpentine system the P/S pump pully does not have enough clearance and there has to be a cutout. This also allows for a clear shot of the damper and timing post on the front cover.

i agree i would like to see my seats mounted directly on the floor with sliders... about 4 - 6 inches lower than they sit now.. i've thought about doing this but then got sidetracked.. as usual.. must be ADD...

JR

AC18Classic
12-15-2005, 09:20 AM
What's the difference in the height in inches between the 16 / 18 / 22 - from the cockpit floor up?

Lenny
12-15-2005, 09:31 AM
At cockpit midpoint my "X" is 19", my 16 is 18" and my Formula Junior is 22" :eek: . The "X" is a different beast than the Classic 18 so my guess is that they are the same or very close.