Donzi Motor installations (Opinions) :(

[Bryan Tuvell 33ZX]

I consider this a performance thread, because I am boat shopping, and issues like this effect performance when crap breaks... couplers, drives etc. So here goes.
Most have seen my thread on my Drives are off what else should I check for?
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?p=352622#post352622

Well I visted the boat today and watched the Merc Mechanic try to slide the alignment tool in each hole.
Then he showed me that NO washer was installed on either inward motor mount, YES, NO LOCK WASHER.
The left motor twisted a tad, the other sunk a bit. NO MECHANICAL harm is the good news, but the 3 hours labor I mentioned in the last thread should be DONZI's issue.
(Don't forget on my last boat the TAB on the washer was NOT bent down at install on the M Mount, cost me hundreds to replace abused loose mounts).

I spoke to Donzi today, Richard in customer service. I quote, "I will bring it to the table, your outside of one year though".. I am trying to play fair, 200 hour Merc Service, this is the deal.
I will post the mount pictures here in a day or two after I drive back to the marina.

I sure hope Donzi stands behind me like they have over the years. It is NOT the 3 hours labor, it is the principle, my bill for my season maitenance was large, I am ok with paying for what I need to stay a strong reliable running boat.

LASTLY, remember I said Donzi did not install the 496 HO drail plugs in the transom, I had that fixed yesterday, picture below. NO MORE OIL PUMPING! DRAIN BABY DRAIN...

Bryan Tuvell

[MOP]

Bryan leaving the washers out has always Poed me and more common then you think, that it is a Merc issue. OEM recieves the engines complete and has no reason to disasemble the mounts, Donzi mech should have caught it but my anger would be directed at Merc. On twins that is a bitch to get the mount out just to drop the damn washer on.
The added drains should not have be nessesary if the proper limber holes had been installed by Donzi, they should eat that one. On another note next time you are down there look at the port tab, it may be a reflection but it appears to be bent upward slightly. You know how old my bulbs are I may be seeing things!!!
Phil

[Greg K]

LASTLY, remember I said Donzi did not install the 496 HO drail plugs in the transom, I had that fixed yesterday, picture below. NO MORE OIL PUMPING! DRAIN BABY DRAIN...
Bryan Tuvell

Donzi doesn't install them. Here's an '05 with HO's.

[Bryan Tuvell 33ZX]

MOP, good to hear from you, thanks, my reply is AMEN.
I am still sitting on $20K worth of rare stamps, never did sell them.
Greg. I love my Donzi's, everyone knows that. It takes less than 15 minutes to install the drain hoses in the transom, hardware is about $30 brass $45 Stainless.
Back to my issue: I am reserving all facts and comments on the Motor Mount Issue until I get word back from Donzi. They need to view the pictures and the report from the Merc Mechanic.

HM and MP knows that only the facts, my whines and my praise will come from any post of mine when I post a Donzi issue.

I believe in Donzi, I hope they believe in me for about $250.00 bucks....
Bryan

[mrfixxall]

brian,im not questioning your mercury tech but did he roll the engines over every 90 deg when he checked the aleignment of the engines..some times i find a out of round coupler doing it this way..

[Bryan Tuvell 33ZX]

Good question. Thank you.
I will ask him today.

It is nice to get good service, as a boat owner this facility has been my best experience ever.

Bryan

[Bryan Tuvell 33ZX]

MPoodle
I hear you, I have the 100 hour check paperwork that Woody Jacksons folks at Jackson Marine did.
I will be calling him Monday.

But when they verified alignment maybe no adjustment was needed. Who knows. I always seem to get in the butt bit by the little things.
Bryan

[Bryan Tuvell 33ZX]

Here are a few shots, I will pull the book on the motors for a comparison shortly.

The mechanic says they have yet to be touched, see how loose they are?

Bryan

[mrfixxall]

from what i see in the pics it looks like nyloc nuts and i have seen this before with out a washer under the nuts because the nut its self has a washer step built into the nut...also i have seen thease come loose..ask your tech to replace the nuts with the old style nuts and the big cut washer...
p.s. just so you know those are not offshore race mounts,race mounts bolt to the front of the engine and usually have 12 to 16 5/8 bolts in them .

[Bryan Tuvell 33ZX]

Thanks for the info. So your telling me no washer is required?
I think the Merc book will show otherwise. I will look it up this evening.

MP, yes she is dirty inside, I had a little oil accident last time using a pump out kit... I am saving that task for a warm day, trust me, it will be done.
One thing at a time.
Oh, and MP, I do appreciate the reminder, who would I be without knowing great dudes like you!
Next set of pictures I post will be shiney white bildge sir... :)

Bryan

[Schnook]

The nylocks came out about three years ago, in place of the lock tab style since no one ever bothered to fold the tabs...
B, you know the policy of the board... NO dirty pics allowed in the GD section...
Clean your bilge sir :D :D :D
Nylock nuts have actually been used in industrial applications for a long time. You have to be careful not to over torque them or they're prone to failure. They're single use only too, so if you take one off you have to go back with a new one. I prefer a conical lock washer, commonly referred to as a bellville washer, or the traditional split washer.

[MOP]

The nylocs very rarely if ever move and I do not think yours did either, the lowers wind there way down. The washer is always securing the lower nut and eithe a lock washer or the new nuts on top.

Phil

[Ed Donnelly]

Mop;Thank God (or whoever) for another old fart that calls them by their right name.. Lock Washers.. I have never heard them called by the other names posted, split etc etc ............Ed

[Schnook]

Mop;Thank God (or whoever) for another old fart that calls them by their right name.. Lock Washers.. I have never heard them called by the other names posted, split etc etc ............Ed
Even old farts call it a ford or a chevy, not just a car. If you've done any kind of mechanical work you should know there's more than one type of Lock Washer.

[Bryan Tuvell 33ZX]

So, am I off base here? I am being told there should be a lock washer on the top also. And at the moment I can't lay my hands on the 8.1 manual.
????????
Bryan

[rustnrot]

How about loosening the nut, apply some loctite red and retorque?

[BUIZILLA]

I can't, for the life of me, understand why DONZI can't/won't/didn't bend the lower tabs over, on new rigging. Why is this such a hard feat to accomplish? It doesn't matter how many nuts you put on top, or what washers you use, if the lower base isn't stabilized, things ARE going to settle... personally, I find this inexcusable.
IMO, this should be a MANDATORY recall situation with DONZI, for safety inspection. It should be on a dealer pre-delivery checklist, and signed off. Especially after viewing JohnTrip's damage, which occurred well offshore at the time, and allowed water to enter the bilge...

It's too damm bad the boating industry doesn't have Federal watchdogs, like the auto industry does.

JH

[rustnrot]

"It's too damm bad the boating industry doesn't have Federal watchdogs, like the auto industry does."

You're kidding, right?? The answer to Quality is never more inspectors, especially The Feds!

[BUIZILLA]

I'm not kidding one bit here, i'm absolutely dead serious, we have the Highway Safety oversight group for the auto industry and recalls, why can't we have a Waterways Safety oversight group for the same thing?

Also, the auto industry must offer current parts status for 10 years after model year release, why can't the boating undustry be required to do the same thing, along with the same lemon law program?

JH

[fasttrucker]

You know,My motor mounts vibrated down on my 502 a couple of years ago.When I pulled my motor to re-do everything my mech. put in a race plate that can handle 1000 hp.My boat is a 1998. not that old,and I thought that it was really bad on mercurys part that they didnt have a better system in place then.

[MOP]

Bryan the mounts work their way down the top nut does not normaly move, the washer like the pic Poodle posted is only used/needed to secure the bottom nut.

Phil

[Bryan Tuvell 33ZX]

Phil, I know, notice though one tab is not even bent down. A washer on top would still help it from loosening and causing the motor to shift under torque.
MP posted the diagram I was looking for, regardless, the motor should have been installed properly.
Thanks
Bryan

[MOP]

Phil, I know, notice though one tab is not even bent down. A washer on top would still help it from loosening and causing the motor to shift under torque.
MP posted the diagram I was looking for, regardless, the motor should have been installed properly.
Thanks
Bryan

The washers have 3 tabs I get atleast two bent over though I am sure 1 will hold it as only 1 hold it at the mount, the top nut usualy takes a bit to break loose even if the engine is down quite a ways.

Phil

[MOP]

Me I like the lock washer, if you look at a new one it has an abaded surface between that and the washer cutting intot he metal that holds very well. When you loosen one it peels a little of the nut of showing it had a really good bit.

Phil

[Bryan Tuvell 33ZX]

Phil, I hear ya, point remains, they are not to spec, and no, $250 to $300 bucks won't break me. I am paying the bill.

I, like most, think it is time that me as "the customer" stops getting screwed by a factory mistake.
How many people buy a boat and 1st look to see if the motor mounts have the right washers, and installed correctly?

My fingers are crossed, I sent Richard (Customer service at Donzi) the pictures today.

I believe in Donzi, they have ALWAYS taken care of me. Yet I have not had a factory issue since Steve passed on, he was always the sanity of that place when I hit a brick wall in Cust Service.

I will keep all posted with the facts as they develop.
Bryan

[Bryan Tuvell 33ZX]

HAPPY ENDING
I love seeing Donzi in my cell phone as it rings.

They feel it is not their issue, but Jacksons, they should have caught this at 20 hours and my service that I requested before sale.

But they agreed to take care of the 3 hours labor I requested from them!!!

Thanks DONZI.

Bryan Tuvell

[Bryan Tuvell 33ZX]

MPoodle, good point.
I haven't called Woody yet, I will now only to advise him of the mistake that was not caught at 20 hours (if they did it) and the 100 hours service they performed. I have the work documentation and will post it. It could have been the new guy, or a seasoned hand. He needs to be aware.

Woody Jackson was 1st class to me, and even visited my home with his wife.He offered to make the trailer spare issue good, I let it go.

Another good Donzi deal, $200 and some bucks isn't much overall, but it is a 1/4 tank of gas for the boat.
Like I told Richard at Donzi, following a rigerous Merc schedule is costly, but I have found it is always money well spent in the macro view.

Bryan

[RickSE]

Yep, I'd bet your upper nyloc nuts never moved, it was the lower nuts that loosened and vibrated down. This would explain the alignment being off. I'd reset the alignment, put on new nyloc nuts with heavy duty washers underneath, torque the upper nuts and bend the lower tabs over.

When you buy a new Ford or GM truck does the selling dealer have to check the motor mount bolts? I don't think so. Should a Donzi dealer be required to check the alignment and motor mounts among other things on every new boat they sell? NO, they shouldn't, but unfortunately it's gotten to the point where they really have to because of the lack of QA. I've seen a fair amount of stuff where you just shake your head and wonder how in the hell it was able to leave the factory that way. I probably make it sound worse then it is, but what ever happened to a check list, properly trained riggers and a QA inspection.

I have to say though that Donzi has been excellent lately about taking care of problems that arise from bad factory installs. They seem very willing to help when the problem is thoroughly explained and they are given all the facts. It has to be costing them $$$ though.

I agree that Bryan's mount problems should have been caught during the first alignment check. They probably never even looked at the mounts though if the alignment was still good.

[ChromeGorilla]

Should the dealer have to check the mounts?
In a perfect world, no..
Should the dealer check the mounts????
In a perfect world, yes..
Should the dealer check the mounts during the 20 and 100 hour checks as per Mother Mercury's instructions?
Without a doubt... Not doing so is negligence, and has the potential to endanger lives. That is why Mercury clearly and unequivocally spells out the methods and time frames for checking the mounts....
This is a hipo boat being delivered, the capacity to kill or maim is considerably higher then say, a bayliner... (Not to mention the investment by the owner.) If a dealer cannot take an extra hour to check out the boat properly, they should get out of the business. Funny, most dealers have enough time to "water test" the boat, but they cannot check the mounts? Hooey I tell, ya, Hooooooey!!
Donzi requires dealers to pre-inspect the boats before delivery. The dealers who don't spend the money to do this (so that their profit is higher,) don’t deserve to sell the line. Yes, quality starts at the top (factory) but it ends at the bottom, on delivery. The dealer should catch the factories mistake (s), and file for warranty on the problems. Enough dealers do this; the factory will be forced to step up the QA process..


Well put.... I concur.....

[joseph m. hahnl]

a Cinderella story> Disney should make a movie on motor mounts:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
The sad thing is if you retightened the lower nut to the nylar nut the alignment would probably have come right back in. Live and learn.
the best way to eliminate the lower nut from moving is to "Jam nut it"
2 nuts bound together under the mount bracket."if there is room on the stud"
Or a genuine jam nut like the ones found on muffler clamps.

I do have one question if the lower nut should never move could the alignment go out?


it is obvious that this problem is continues and that is why Merc is so adiment about checking it reguarly.
So to me this is not a quality problem, it is an engineering problem"Imagine a machinist is Blaming the engineer" "Rootsy where are you when we need yah:idea: "

"In a perfect world an engineer would have eliminated the problem when it was known to be a problem. In the world that it is it would cost money there for you are stuck doing it your self.

I would highly recomend The Jam nuts if there is still time and Donzi paying the bill. Especially with the twins and seeing as how it is impossible to get the center mounts with any ease.


joe

[RickSE]

MP I agree, all new boats need to be inspected to a certain degree by the dealers before delivery. Donzi expects this and expects dealers to return certain paperwork showing that this was done. After use is another issue. My two main complaints with the current system is that Donzi does not water test every boat or allow dealers to visually inspect the boats before they are shrink wrapped and leave the factory. It would be nice to resolve potential problems at the factory not hundreds or thousands of miles away when a customer wants his/her boat.