Questions from a new guy,

[Bobby D]

Hello,
I am not new to this site however as of June 2005 I became a first time Donzi owner and this is my first post. I have been around boats most of my life and as a kid dreamed of someday owning a DONZI and this year I made it happen. What I have learned from researching this site is that a lot of knowledgeable people are members and I have some questions about my boat that some of you out there may be able to answer?
The boat is a 1970 16’ Ski Sporter powered by a 351 Holman Moody Ford W and a Volvo 250 outdrive.
The hull number is 16600, the motor has a T-Bird stamped plate with HM CP number EOHM-4042-1-RW-I/O 290 4V, and compression is 9.5 to 1. The outdrive number is Volvo PZ H2516770 B. All numbers match what appears to be the original VIN foil sticker attached behind the rear seat cushion. The numbers have faded but are clearly visible due to the numbers being stamped or etched into the foil material.
The boat (I believe) is very original including the original Rocket trailer, chrome fire extinguisher, zippered cockpit cover, port side single seat with original orange upholstery, and trim tabs. The wrap around seat cushions/upholstery and Holman Moody marine gauges were replaced with new SW gauges in 2004 by the previous owner and I have the old gauges and valve cover at home put away on a shelf.
The only change I made to date was this past summer when I installed bunks to the original roller trailer and now it is a drive on drive off trailer.
I bought this boat in very good condition from a registry member who provided a lot of information on the boat. He was a pleasure to do business with and gave me detail on what he knew about the boat.
The boat was repainted about five years ago and still looks like new. Whoever did the work did it right, you can see your reflection in the hull/deck and the boat looks wet sitting on the trailer. The top half of the motor and outdrive were overhauled in 2002 and the boat now runs on unleaded gas. Motor also has a new starter, MSD 6AL ignition, holley electric fuel pump, holley 650 cfm double pump carburetor, and Mickey Thompson aluminum valve covers. However, the gas tank is original and I am clear on what to look for thanks to the registry. The plan is to replace (top off) within the next two years.
I believe this is an original Pennsylvania boat due to what appears to be an original PA Fish Commission capacity plate with the number 16600 stamped on it.
Hull number 16600 appears on this site (3) three times twice in New Jersey and now in Pennsylvania again. I believe at least one other person owned the boat based on the PA capacity plate so if anyone is familiar with the boat or can help me get some history on it I would appreciate it.
What does 16600 indicate 600 boats built in 1970? How can I find out where the boat was built (I believe Miami) and where was it delivered? Who did the restoration Lakeside Restorations? Also, my Volvo outdrive does not have the Holman Moody Marine name plate on the intermediate gear drive, instead it says 250. I want to keep the boat as original as possible so if anyone has replaced their old drive and still has the badge I am interested.
The boat was a topic of discussion this summer (see registry classified 06/05/05 1070 Orange 16’ Donzi) that is my boat and the cheesy steering wheel has been replaced with the original steering wheel.
Thanks to Lenny for quick first glance response and helping with first post questions.
Bobby

[harbormaster]

Welcome aboard Bobby, and congrats on your new boat.

Sounds like a good one.

You said the boat was repainted. These boats were gelcoat. Not paint.

[Sam]

SWEET boat Bobby and welcome to the site. You need to give some serious thought to bringing that baby down to AOTH on Lk Cumberland this spring.

Sam

[Morgan's Cloud]

Yes it's a beaut !

Welcome aboard Bobby, and congrats on your new boat.
Sounds like a good one.
You said the boat was repainted. These boats were gelcoat. Not paint.
I presume what you're saying is that Bobby should have said
"The boat has since been painted" (?)

[mattyboy]

nice ride
16600 is the 600th 16 built
the holman moody numbers seem to match
42nd 351 of that year
standard auto rotation
raw water cooled
I/O

I'll sell you my h/m outdrive badge but it is gonna cost ya big bucks

[MOP]

Hi and welcome to the family, and thanks for taking/posting such nice shots of such a sweet boat.

MOP

[Moody Blu']

Thats sweet, that would look great next to pearsons 18' pumpkin

[Bobby D]

Harbormaster,
Morgan’s Cloud was correct what I should have said was the boat has since been painted.
Sam,
I going to show my ignorance here but what does AOTH stand for? Looks like a get together on a lake however, not familiar with the acronym or location.
Mattyboy,
Thanks but no thanks, the HM badge came stock with your boat and belongs on your boat you keep it.
Anyway I have a few bucks’ just not big bucks to spend and should focus on what is important now like the tank.
Based on your input the boat appears to be a 1970 numbers matching boat the 600th 16 built and 42nd 351 of that year (see attached pic).
From 1964 and at least thru 1970 Donzi averaged < 100 16’ boats per year and that seemed low to me.
MOP,
Thanks for the welcome. I enjoy reading your posts and responses to others registry member questions. You know what you are talking about.
After reading a ton of information posted here on bad tanks I went to the garage took the cover off the boat and climbed under the bow and checked a few things out. I detected a slight fuel smell up near the end of the ski locker in front of the tank. It is the original metal tank that appears to be galvanized and what foam I had access to was dry all around. The tank has a Donzi Marine Miami address and a blue sticker that is to far back under the floorboard to read what it says.
Sound like I got a (35) thirty five year old tank that needs to be replaced.
Looks like a new tank for Christmas and a two-week vacation this summer to replace it.
Thanks again guys!

[mattyboy]

mine was built in april of 67 hull 410 think the went gangbusters in the begining then production slowed a bit

[onesubdrvr]

That is a BEAUTIFUL boat,...

I do have a question for you and others though, something I just noticed,

Your captains seat is a foldable vs. the typical wrap around style bucket. Were there two options for seats? Which one is time period correct for a 66-67? or are they both?

Thanks
Wayne

[mattyboy]

Bobbyd's
boat would be the original setup on a 16 I have seen a 69 and a 71 16 with the folding seat so sometime after that they went to the wrap around bucket
would be my guess

[Donzigo]

Welcome ............. nice Donzi!

A - Awakening
O - Of
T - The
H - Horses

You will be welcomed warmly by the folks at this gathering in Kentucky each year, in the spring.

If youever get down to Florida, get in touch with a SEADOG. It's an active group.

Richard

[Rob]

I believe 69 was the last year for the folding seat. My 71 (C16-626) still has the original interior from Built Rite and the drivers seat is a wraparound bucket. It's also the same orange color, although mine has a white bottom and the candy stripe interior.

[Rob]

BTW I'm also looking for a h-m badge for the outdrive. Mine is gone...

[Tony]

Welcome to the board...I love the orange!

Go back up front and dig down through the foam. Maybe use a long screwdriver, probe to the bottom of the vee, and see if it comes up wet. (My guess is that it will, since you have a faint smell of gas). Better yet just dig down and use your finger. The top half of my foam was bone dry, but after removing the tank the bottom half was DRIPPING wet with gas!

I would not have tackled this job if not for the encouragement and advice of this board. While it was a daunting task, the end result was good...and of course quite a bit safer! Search my name for a pretty thorough description of the process I used, and remember to clean up/replace anything you can think of that is easier to access with the deck off.

Warning:
Do NOT submit a post asking whether to foam your tank in or not!!!

[Bobby D]

Wayne,
My seat does not fold down it has two solid aluminum gussets attached to each side with brass hardware. The seat was constructed with marine plywood and is in excellent condition for, the foam padding could be better (I don’t have a lot of fat in the can) and the upholstery has very little signs of ware. The hardware is good shape as well. The seat has two adjustment positions with SS locking pins: the fist position will travel about 12 inches forward and aft and the second position is 360-degree rotation. I have attached pictures that show what I am trying to describe including a 1969/70 brochure for the registry archive.
I am working with Bob from Built-Rite Upholstery on a backup/everyday seat that is in scale to the existing seat/interior. Donzi got the scale correct as far as I am concerned (I am 6’-4” tall and have a 38” inseam) when the seat is in the full back position it’s like driving a car, my legs are in a good extended position to reach the foot throttle and my arms are comfortable holding on to the wheel.
Last month I made a 10 inch long SS pedestal extension for my Dad who is 75 year old (prototype). This will be for his use only; he loves to drive the boat but hates doing deep knee bends to get in and out of the seat. It’s probably to high for normal operation but for cruising around the lake on a calm day it may work out.
Bobby

[Digger]

nice boat there Bobby, welcome aboard! good luck with the tank

[Rob]

I believe the catalog you show is from 68 or 69. Look at the hatch latches. The later models had one chrome plated bronze latch in the center of the hatch with a Donzi logo in instead of latches in each corner.

My 71 has a wraparound bucket that adjusts fore and aft and rotates.

BTW, I replaced the fuel tank in my 16. It's really not that big a deal. The top is attached around screws around rub rail area and several woven roving tabs around the floor storage hatch area. You remove the rub rail, remove the screws underneath, break the seal between the two halves with a putty knife and cut the tabs with a saw. You do have to be careful lifting the top off and make sure you support it evenly once removed.

The pickup on my boat was getting clogged with gunk so I assumed my tank had rusted out. When I removed the tank I discovered that it was in good shape, but over the years it had accumulated a ton of junk from the bottom of marina fuel storage tanks. There was more than an inch of built up gunk in the bottom and that was what was clogging the pickup tube. I could have re-installed the original galvanized tank after I cleaned it out, but I opted to get a new one from Florida Marine Tanks. I sent them my original and they sent me back a perfect replica in aluminum. I was really impressed with the the workmanship and the cost was pretty reasonable--I think $150 or so, although this was 5-6 years ago.

I'm not sure what the controversy is around foaming the tank in, but I think once you remove it you will see why it is important. Not only does the foam lock the tank in between the stringers, it also provides much needed support underneath the tank. I foamed mine in and also used tabs provided on the tank to mechanically attach it to the stringers.

While you have the top off you have easy access to everything in the bilge area as well as all of the wiring etc. I took the opportunity to repaint the bilge, put all of the wiring into a loom and redo all of the wiring supports. You could replace all of the wiring if need be. I also took out the original bilge pump and rebuilt it since it is almost impossible to get to with the top on. Another condideration is replacement of the cast supports for the stainless steel rail around the cockpit. Although the originals are extremely hard to find (I finally got mine from a company the bought up old NOS marine hardware), you have easy access to replace them when the top is removed.

Good luck!

[Bobby D]

Tony,
Roger that don’t ask “whether to foam the tank in or not” questions
Great job documenting job scope, a blind man could follow your procedure.
Good advise, I’ll climb in deep dig around and see what I find; my judgment is the smoking gun is at the bottom of the tank. I tilted the trailer down as far as it would go for several days expecting to see gas accumulate and found none in the bow. I cleaned out the PVC tube and still no signs off gas. I don’t see gas in the bilge and the garage does not smell of gas, it’s only when I climb way up inside the bow that I notice a smell.
I’ve been looking at pictures of several 16’s with the deck removed including yours and I discovered that my boat has (4) four additional gussets installed (two on each side of the stringer) in the engine compartment area. Don’t know if the boat came from Donzi that way in 1970 or if the gussets were added later (see attached pics)? From what I have been able to inspect so far everything is solid, and the wiring is in good shape as well. Several tabs appear to be old and brittle and are no longer attached to the boat. Also two tabs are far back on the starboard side and will be difficult to reach. Would be interested in any tips/suggestions for the mechanical /electrical disconnects.
The HM plate is for a 1970 boat.
E-351
0-1970
HM-Holman Moody
Serial No-4042
290 HP
4 Barrel
The Detroit Red Wings logo looks awesome over your boat, I’m a long time Orange and Black Philadelphia Flyers fan who knows maybe we will meet in the finals this year.
Rob,
My boat had the corner style hatch latches that appeared in the catalog however the previous owner did not like the way they operated so he chanced to hairpins.
As you suggest I plan on overhauling everything I have easy access to while the deck is off including the grab rail supports. At this point I have not had any problems with clogged fuel lines in fact the fuel level got very low once last year and at no time did I experience any performance problems. I believe that shipping an old gas tank to a fabricator would be difficult so I plan on getting one made locally or contacting a recommended vendor who already has the template. Many hard to get at components have been recently replaces however I had not considered the bilge pump so I will inspect or replace as required. Thanks for the encouragement to move forward with deck removal. You, Tony and others have made it easy to follow by documenting the process, we all can learn from each other by documenting lessons learned and benchmarking. My brother is an experienced rigger and I have several mechanically inclined friends who have volunteered to help me out so the project will be straightforward.
I manage large capital improvement projects for the electric company and have experience with closed cell foam roofing and coatings programs for extreme river environments and have a good idea on how I will move forward with foaming and coating the tank. Have not decided if I will coat the entire hull since you will not see it once the deck is back on. The challenge ahead for me is convincing my wife to give up her half of the garage for the project duration.
Although I like the way she looks in the bikini I need to figure out how to change this registered user picture how do I do this?
Bobby

[Rob]

It's been a few years since I did the job, but here's what I remember about disconnects:
-Steering cable--disconnected it at the oudrive end because it was easy to get to there
-Wiring harness--easy, there's a big rubber plug you can disconnect on the motor end of the harness
-Shift and throttle cables--I think I disconnected these on the gear shift lever end, but I can't remember for sure

That's all I remember disconnecting, but you can poke your head around underneath and see if I've missed anything.

BTW, I believe Florida Marine Tanks kept the measurements/templates from my 16 tank. I imagine if you call them they can build another copy.

Good Luck!

[mattyboy]

florida marine tanks fmt23dz
around 275 bucks I got one around 2 years ago

plus the decipher on the hm number

e0 1970
hm holman moody
4 351
042 engine 42 of that year
1 standard auto engine rotation
RW raw water cooled
I/O inboard aboard
290 290 hp
4v 4bbl

orange boat for a Flyer fan nice setup now get that boat up to 1000 isles and it can fly the Flyers colors among all those winfs and sens fans ;)

been a Flyer fan since the days of ed van imp and mad dog kelly

[Rob]

When you remove the tank you will find the factory used balsa wood spacers (the same balsa pieces used in the deck core) between the tank and the floor. You will have to replace those with something. I use poly plastic blocks beacuse the balsa wood spacers I took out were completely rotten, but I'm not sure the plastic isn't a little to hard, especially with an aluminum tank.

Also, you do have to disconnect the fuel fill hose and the forward and aft lifting rings to get the top off.

What's your hull number BTW?

[Bobby D]

Rob,
Thanks for the additional removal details, and what you describe is exactly what I have found so far. Mechanical on the port side, electrical on the starboard, fuel lines and lifting rings.. I have some additional wiring to disconnect due to the MSD system and I also located all fiberglass tabs. I am planning on using backer rod as spacers to set the tank on prior to pouring the foam in place. This stuff looks like the insulation you put on domestic water lines in your home only the foam rod is solid and is closed cell constructed. Contractors who work with foam in power plants use this material to control foam depth, flow and the amount used when injecting into penetrations. During the pour the foam adheres to the backer rod and once the foam has cured it becomes part of the installation.
My hull number is 16600 and the rocket trailer also has the number 6370X18 welded on the top of the I-Beam. Could be month day and year built?
I have been looking for a Holman Moody Logo Outdrive Plate for months now with no luck. These have been out of production for a long time and appear to be impossible to find. There is a lot of talent on this web site and I believe somebody can help reproduce a few if the demand is there. From your response your also need one and my judgment is other guys would be interested in procuring one if they were available. What do you think about starting a thread to find out if anyone else would be interested?
Regards,
Bobby D

[Rob]

Actually I have been looking for an outdrive plate for 5 or 6 years. I'm pretty sure they quit using HM plates by the time my boat was built, but I think they look cool. About 4-5 years ago someone was talking about repro'ing them, but I don't remember who it was. I'm sure there is a market for them.

My hull number is C16-626, so you are just 26 boats behind me.

[JimG]

Bobby, your boat is amazing! Love the color...

I'd be a player on a repro HM drive emblem, mines been missing for years...

Jim

[mattyboy]

I have mixed emotions on reproducing something hard to find, this is not like reproducing a shift handle that all the boats came with cause they are broken or weathered or decals that can get damaged at the dock you are talking about a limited run of drives made by holman moody
I know of a few original holman moody boats that came with the volvo drive tag so now we have everyone with a vovlo drive putting H/M badges on them??? so how do you tell an original from repro??

Badges we don't need no stinking Badges

Like I said you guys can have mine but it will cost ya but it comes with a boat and trailer

;)

[JimG]

I didn't know HM actually built the drives...

[Bobby D]

Matt,
Good discussion from what you are saying it sounds like not all Holman Moody’s are creating equal. To this point everything I have seen or read indicated that the motor/outdrive came as a package. I was not aware of the fact that Holman Moody produced a limited run of drives I have a HM parts manual that runs up into 1972 and all drives 200, 250, etc all show the badge. Also did not know about the trim fins my drive has (4) four holes but no fins. I figured someone installed aftermarket hydrofoils or fins and then decided they didn’t like the performance and took them off.
I like you passion around originality vs. reproduction the original wheel covers on my 1971 LT1 Corvette were stolen and when I replaced them I decided to keep it stock and not put aftermarket wheels on it. What was key for me here is although the wheel covers were no longer originals, hard to find correct replacements went back on.
To be honest with you the reason I was trying to REPLACE it was I just figured that over in the last 35 years somebody either five-finger discounted it or a previous owner decided to keep it as a souvenir/conversation piece.
I am not trying to build a clone this is a numbers matching HM boat, the motor and RPM gauge say Holman Moody Marine and the drive is original. So if the hunk of metal that says 250 is what the boat came with than I agree “I don’t need no stinking badge”.
Regards,
Bobby

[mattyboy]

again let me clarify, my point was H/M put their badges on a limited number of volvo drives, I know of an all original 71 with a H/M moody setup and a volvo 250 tagged drive from the factory, the fin is the torque tab most volvo 250 have the wider tab that also provided the exhaust in a non thru hull boat mine looks like one on a merc just a fin and it is stamped with the H/M logo
I don't know how to tell what drives H/M or the factory put those badges on or how many?? I would guess they went has high as the 250
I know H/M put the badge on boats they rigged like mine which was done in their long beach CA shop
I would be more worried about keeping those H/M gauges in running order I had to replace what was left of mine with teleflex look like the older style but in red white and black to match the colors on my 16

[gold-n-rod]

they didn't build them but the put their badges and trim fins ( yes torque trim fins my drive has a h/m fin on it ) on ones they installed like mine and some factory boats, my point being they were limited in numbers and
not well documented so how do you tell??
I am on the fence on this I need to hear different opions
right now I think reproducing is a bad idea my reasons
to me it would be like taking 10 to 20 22 classics and redoing them to be like a testorosa which are uncommon boats and now flooding the market with look a likes that are hard to tell from the originals, what happened to the guy who bought his testarosa cause he knew it was rarer and more unique than a regular 22???
or like putting SS badges on a regular chevelle
now if it were to reproduce something that was vital to running a h/m motor like a water pump or or something I would not hesitate

Sir Matty, I respectfully disagree. There will always be shady people who make regular Chevelles into an SS or a 2+3 into an HM, and it has nothing to do with the availability of the parts to do such a deed. The parts just make it easier.

It's all about documentation. Do you know what you call someone who buys an undocumented SS (or HM)? A fool, or someone with more money than brains.

Shift levers and walnut knobs were made for only one reason, the originals were NLA. Should be the same for drive plates or gauge faces or whatevers.

Just my 2 pennies.

[mattyboy]

well mr gold
as you say documentation is the key but as most of the early classics didn't come with much and the surviving ones if they still have that it is rare, the automotive industry has a little advantage, they id'd everything and the market for those cars demands the buyer bone up on the tell tale signs of a
repro car

but in our endeavour when hull numbers were not mandatory til 73 and with the factory with a build em with what's on hand mentality as seen in the 16 with and without deck coring, different vent arrangements different steering wheels, changing from a barrelback to a standard 18 mold with no clearly marked de-marcation point, documentation is a unicorn at best. not to mention the modifications that can take place over 40 years
The waters are muddy enough for an owner of an older classic adding to that kaos is not really something I would enjoy doing.

and again the shift knobs as I said were standard on all donzi with that morse shifter and a shifter knob is not the determining factor in a unique or uncommon or rare boat just something that needs to be done for upkeeps sake
and no longer being available that dog don't hunt, pop a few corsicans or criterions off a plug and see what happens,

[gold-n-rod]

and no longer being available that dog don't hunt, pop a few corsicans or criterions off a plug and see what happens,

The same thing that happened when they (including ol' Shel himself) started popping the Cobra.

Didn't hurt the originals one bit!

:umbrella:

[gold-n-rod]

well mr gold
as you say documentation is the key but as most of the early classics didn't come with much and the surviving ones if they still have that it is rare

For sure and the value should reflect that rarity. No different with Corvettes. Sure, they have a VIN, but beyond that, tank stickers or sales documents are required to authenticate.

[mattyboy]

the car people are leaps and bounds ahead of us in the value of collectability
corvettes have one big thing going for them in the field of identification
GM has not been sold to new owners on several occassions !!!
also sales documents for boats in some states back then it was a handshake some cash trading hands and the keys to the boat
oh and tank stickers your lucky in a 40 year old boat if the tank is still there never mind the sticker :eek:
yeah yeah kit cobras built for pennies at home
try that in the boat industry
cars are totally different from boats when it comes to this stuff , most of us are landed locked

[olredalert]

-------In regard to the Holman/Moody tags on the Volvo drives maybe I can shed some light on this. DONZI bought complete drive packages from H/M. They also bought complete packages from many other vendors. Power options were pretty close to endless if the customer knew enough to ask. H/M bought the Volvo units from Volvo. Although H/M made these tags to take the place of the Volvo tags not every drive that left H/M had a tag on it for a variety of reasons. As well, Volvo drives were often switched from one boat to another at the DONZI factory for a number of reasons before delivery. As an example, every boat was water tested and if they had an out-drive problem they would grab any Volvo drive in sight with the same ratio just to get the boat delivered. Often the drive they grabbed wasnt another H/M unit and therefore didnt have the tag. No one should get thier undies in a bunch over a missing H/M tag on an H/M packaged boat.
-------If someone wants one of those tags they should call H/M and ask for John Holman. If you are "very" nice and buying more than one thing from him John may (I stress MAY) go to his tool-box and get one out for you. He did for me and I thanked him profusely. He is a really nice guy. Please dont abuse this info. Id hate to think he will get 200 phone calls or something. He also said that he did not have an endless supply, and this was 4 years ago now, I think. As an example of something to buy, I believe they have some very cool H/M valve-covers, and I bought one of thier 289/302 aluminum intakes (way cool). I think Mario used it when he redid the drivetrain in the Corsican I sold him, and I know the H/M tag was on the drive. That boat had the rivet holes in the drive for the tag but it was MIA when I bought it..........Bill S

[gcarter]

This is a fun read and I've enjoyed it. It IS obviously winter!!!!!


As an example, every boat was water tested and if they had an out-drive problem they would grab any Volvo drive in sight with the same ratio just to get the boat delivered. Often the drive they grabbed wasnt another H/M unit and therefore didnt have the tag. No one should get thier undies in a bunch over a missing H/M tag on an H/M packaged boat.
.........Bill S

Bill, I couldn't agree with you more. Unfortunately rare old boats just aren't worth that much. WE love them, but the love isn't universally shared at all by the unwashed masses.
I'm reminded of an issue of Auto Week about 15 years ago showing a new Ferrari in a car wash on the cover. For weeks, the Modena Mob wrote angry letters to the editors for not showing adequate respect to such an invaluable piece of rolling artwork!!!!
Finally the editorial staff said "ENOUGH!!!!".......that this was a picture of a new Ferrari coming off the assembly line and going through the car wash located at the factory grounds that every new Ferrari goes through.
It's just a car. If I owned a pre '65 Corvette, I'd probably put four wheel disk brakes on it, just because it's safer.
Matty, at the same time, I respect your sence of history. It obviously means a lot to you.

[JimG]

Thanks Olredalert! That gives me the excuse I need to call HM and order a set of HM valve covers. (I hope that's OK, Matty...):biggrin.: :biggrin.:

While I'm ordering them, I'll ask about the drive emblem.

A while back I spoke with Lee Holman, and he indicated that he was VERY interested in developing a relationship with old Donzi owners. (I think I posted about this...) The several times I've dealt with them, they've been very nice. I called and asked for the "camshaft guru" once, to ask about my HM cam. They connected me with a fellow, who's name I now cannot remember. That guy was amazing! He knew cam specs, off the top of his head, of every motor HM ever assembled. He told me all about my motor, it was a cool experience...

Thanks guys,

Jim

[JimG]

Here's the original post entitled "Holman Moody back in marine business"...

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=33380

I forgot, we even talked about the drive emblems...

[mattyboy]

hey if you can find original stuff go for it

;)

George, not my sense of history my sense of value I want to keep my boat value up
so i can sell it and start popping a 20 minx splash out there I figure they started with a 150 or so so I need to make 1500 or so :p
I would have thought someone with a rare boat who has been trying to track hull numbers and such
might understand my point???

I won't mention the valve covers were probably not an original option, the original I have seen were plain chrome, my were replaced to ribbed ford motor sports.......
hehehe

[Rootsy]

man, i best keep on the straight and narrow or matty will have the volvo lynch mob out after me for what i am about to do to a timeless piece of donzi art... but alas i have no friggin clue on earth where to find a marinized 340 buick and and OMC :eek!: :biggrin.: :wrench:

[mattyboy]

that boats not gonna have trim right??? :p

[olredalert]

-------I have to apologize for the "John" Holman in my above post. I was in a hurry and just plain had a brain fart. Sorry to Lee.............Bill S

[gcarter]

hey if you can find original stuff go for it
;)
George, not my sense of history my sense of value I want to keep my boat value up
so i can sell it and start popping a 20 minx splash out there I figure they started with a 150 or so so I need to make 1500 or so :p
I would have thought someone with a rare boat who has been trying to track hull numbers and such
might understand my point???
I won't mention the valve covers were probably not an original option, the original I have seen were plain chrome, my were replaced to ribbed ford motor sports.......
hehehe
Not Minx's, but CRITERION DECKS !!!!!
Wouldn't that be fun?

[Rob]

Hey, I'm not trying to make something that wasn't. I'm just trying to replace something that was, and I think that's the position most of the rest of us are in.

I can't agree with the rational of keeping hard to find items unavailable. The interest here is in restoring these boats, right?

[olredalert]

Rob,

-----My sentiments exactly. I see nothing wrong with reproduction stuff, and I think a lot of the guys on here feel the same way..........Bill S

[mattyboy]

so far none of these arguments have changed my posistion



Hey, I'm not trying to make something that wasn't. I'm just trying to replace something that was, and I think that's the position most of the rest of us are in.
I can't agree with the rational of keeping hard to find items unavailable. The interest here is in restoring these boats, right?

Rob in your previous post on this thread you stated they stop using the plates before your boat was built, now your trying to replace something that was??? Yes restoring the old boats is a big thing, but what about preserving
their history. some items are hard to find because they were limited in production, not just not made anymore, as I have said in the past the shifter knobs the old donzi script were they limited items no they were used on all boats at a specific time and i can see over the years the scripts getting crushed at the docks yes and can i see someone with a 68 or earlier boat trying to get them yes but they are hard to find i have NO problem with repro those types of items like hinges, hand rail holders and the like
What I have a problem with is reproducing something that was limited to start with and in the end when reproduced will probably have to be reproduced in numbers close to or exceding their original numbers to be economically feasable,
and i have and
will help in anyway someone restoring a boat if I can, I think that is something of extreme importance, members here have helped me, but they have also given me a great lesson in the history of these boats that also comes with the territory
Guys we already own some of the worlds most splashed hulls out there and if all of the items are available what's to stop someone talented in the ways of glass and resto from taking a viper and dressing it up as a Holman moody Donzi???
let's see find an old cobalt that looked like the corsican ,guzzy her up with all the right decals and script and say added a hull number and pass it off for something it's not, now will someone here be able to tell the difference i am sure but will someone on ebay know the difference?? granted those boats are just as rare as the corsicans probably not the best analogy

I know I might seem way out of line here, but i have always found it easier to draw the line in the sand on little things so when the big things come along
there is no waffling ;) when the time comes that our boats have the same clout as the muscle cars do, remember i was the one who thought of the Baxter Pearson auction :)

PS for a beer anyone who can guess how i stand on cloning humans???

altho the idea of having a mattyboy to haunt the boards for decades to come does have an interesting sound to it :P


have a great new years guys
and bobbyd if you need anything give me a call a trip to help a donzi fan who also a flyer fan would be my pleasure

[gcarter]

So Matty, how many HM 16's were built? We know there were HUNDREDS of 16's built in the early years, so how exclusive were they? And how important were they?
For instance, there were ten Minx LE's built (is that right Jim?) but it would probably be MUCH easier to duplicate an LE Minx or LE 18 than your boat as it was only decals, color, upholstery, and a dash tag. (i.e., if you were restoring anyway, why not choose those colors?)
I like my Minx, and I'm proud of the results, however I've taken a lot of liberties with details like the instrument panel, Monster gauges, and other interior modifications.
Also, I've changed the structure somewhat, but in my opinion, these were improvements and called for, not to mention eliminating problem areas like the dumb 'glass tabs and absolutely awful cockpit support problems that caused all thos awful cockpit floor cracks.
So am I a bad person for , in my opinion, "improving" my boat?
What I've done;
Larger, easier to read gauges
Increased area of dash
Vastly improved switches
Vastly improved circuit breakers (old ones weren't even water tight)
Huge improvements in wiring
Much newer and better version of the original engine w/significant increase in HP.
Increased capacity of fuel tank.
Through bolted deck and hull.
Mechanically supported cockpit and rear seat to eliminate structural failures.
Modern trim tabs.
Closed cooling

So is my boat better for taking these liberties, or should I be tarred and feathered for deviating from the "standard"?

[BUIZILLA]

I believe there were 25 each of the LE's in 18-20-22 in that one year span. My old Minx LE was ordered and sold new by Cataldo's, and I also believe they were the largest single order bank of Minx LE's of all the Donzi dealers in that timeframe... somewhere here I have the selling dealer form for my 18LE... Bud gave me the lowdown one night on this, but i'm foggy, as that was somewhere in the 300th or so beer that night...
I don't believe there were 25 total LE's of the 3 sizes combined, but I could be wrong.

JH

[LKSD]

Nice ride! Jamie :)



Hello,
I am not new to this site however as of June 2005 I became a first time Donzi owner and this is my first post. I have been around boats most of my life and as a kid dreamed of someday owning a DONZI and this year I made it happen. What I have learned from researching this site is that a lot of knowledgeable people are members and I have some questions about my boat that some of you out there may be able to answer?
The boat is a 1970 16’ Ski Sporter powered by a 351 Holman Moody Ford W and a Volvo 250 outdrive.
The hull number is 16600, the motor has a T-Bird stamped plate with HM CP number EOHM-4042-1-RW-I/O 290 4V, and compression is 9.5 to 1. The outdrive number is Volvo PZ H2516770 B. All numbers match what appears to be the original VIN foil sticker attached behind the rear seat cushion. The numbers have faded but are clearly visible due to the numbers being stamped or etched into the foil material.
The boat (I believe) is very original including the original Rocket trailer, chrome fire extinguisher, zippered cockpit cover, port side single seat with original orange upholstery, and trim tabs. The wrap around seat cushions/upholstery and Holman Moody marine gauges were replaced with new SW gauges in 2004 by the previous owner and I have the old gauges and valve cover at home put away on a shelf.
The only change I made to date was this past summer when I installed bunks to the original roller trailer and now it is a drive on drive off trailer.
I bought this boat in very good condition from a registry member who provided a lot of information on the boat. He was a pleasure to do business with and gave me detail on what he knew about the boat.
The boat was repainted about five years ago and still looks like new. Whoever did the work did it right, you can see your reflection in the hull/deck and the boat looks wet sitting on the trailer. The top half of the motor and outdrive were overhauled in 2002 and the boat now runs on unleaded gas. Motor also has a new starter, MSD 6AL ignition, holley electric fuel pump, holley 650 cfm double pump carburetor, and Mickey Thompson aluminum valve covers. However, the gas tank is original and I am clear on what to look for thanks to the registry. The plan is to replace (top off) within the next two years.
I believe this is an original Pennsylvania boat due to what appears to be an original PA Fish Commission capacity plate with the number 16600 stamped on it.
Hull number 16600 appears on this site (3) three times twice in New Jersey and now in Pennsylvania again. I believe at least one other person owned the boat based on the PA capacity plate so if anyone is familiar with the boat or can help me get some history on it I would appreciate it.
What does 16600 indicate 600 boats built in 1970? How can I find out where the boat was built (I believe Miami) and where was it delivered? Who did the restoration Lakeside Restorations? Also, my Volvo outdrive does not have the Holman Moody Marine name plate on the intermediate gear drive, instead it says 250. I want to keep the boat as original as possible so if anyone has replaced their old drive and still has the badge I am interested.
The boat was a topic of discussion this summer (see registry classified 06/05/05 1070 Orange 16’ Donzi) that is my boat and the cheesy steering wheel has been replaced with the original steering wheel.
Thanks to Lenny for quick first glance response and helping with first post questions.
Bobby

[mattyboy]

Well George as i said before info on the early years is scketchy but I know that atleast the first 420 hulls produced were not H/M when they left the factory.and H/M got in around 68 and left say around 74 when the Chisloms were owners and they built less than say 25 16's a year judging by the numbers Bobby D post 1970 hull 600 and in the registry hull 642 is 76 so production was down and who is to say how many were optioned has H/M Plus older boats that may have re powered by H/M like mine maybe 200-250 and god knows how many H/m power plants were dropped into older boats by others the question here is how many badged drives, and How important were the H/M THEY ARE THE CORNER STONE OF alll that we know as DONZI , the resin that holds every boat together, they're the granddaddy of them all . who's your daddy ;) well surely as important as any minx, let's not forget their are other H\M boats 18's hornets not just the 16

again why must people throw customizing in with restoring, George are you happy with your boat???it's your boat do with it what you want, your boat was trashed when you got it and you brought it back to life and made structural changes that needed to be done that's great, now let me ask you a question if it were an LE to start with would you have taken the same route cosmetically???
I want everyone who owns a rarer or limited edition boat to think about this little story

you have a enos slaughter rookie baseball card with a collector that has one other "known" card out of the 100 produced. it's value is $500,000 each card
the collector's store burns down his card is gone now what's your card worth???
or joe wiz kid now reproduces 5 cards that he supposedly found in a barn in north dakota they go to the highest bidder and can't be proven authentic
now what's your card worth

well i can see I'm an island of one on this ;)
if someone would like i'll get a price on repro my badge under one condition
you have a H/M numbers matching ,boat, engine ,year and such and you have owned it for more than one year I'm not looking to help out those only in it for the money flipping boats and they know who they are

this will be the last time I make a Be a nice guy this year resoultion :p :)

well now what are we gonna talk about it's only jan 1 ??? :rolleyes:

[gcarter]

Matty, I AM a nice guy!
Any time you're in Florida, you can ride in and even drive my poor old mutilated Minx.....that's a promise.

[Scott Pearson]

All of you are nuts!!!!!

[Moody Blu']

All of you are nuts!!!!!
look whos talkin:tongue:

[mattyboy]

All of you are nuts!!!!!
the nurse said something like that when I was born
"he's all nuts"
:p :rlol:

[Bobby D]

Found the smoking gun, turns out that the slight fuel smell up in the ski locker was coming from the fuel fill hose. The fill hose was original and hard as a rock and the vent hose had been replaced sometime ago with heater hose and was starting to go as well. The fill hose clamp had worm through the rubber and split open about ¼ inch where it attached to the deck fill. The fill hose was almost worn through at the tank connection as well. After removing both hoses I installed rubber expandable plumbers plugs, closed the hatch and covered the boat up for several days, when I removed the cover the smell was gone. Also tilted the trailer down as far as it would go for several weeks and did not see any evidence of gas accumulating in the bow. I cleaned out the PVC tube climbed in deep dug out foam in as many locations as I could reach and found everything to be dry as a bone. In addition in several locations I inserted a welding rod in the foam as far down as it would go and all have remained dry and do not small of fuel. Based on the results of these inspections I have made the decision that it is acceptable to operate the boat with continued monitoring. Monitoring will include looking for changes in the condition of the foam (smelling, seeping or soaking of gas) and visual inspection of tank and bilge.
Thanks to everyone who responded with advice and recommendations.
Bobby D.