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Barry Eller
11-24-2005, 12:29 PM
4 hours on new 502. A short WOT run showed 5100 RPMs. 15"x23" Hydromotive 4 blade. I don't have a GPS, I do have a buddy that does, and soon will have speed numbers. Engine is a new GM Marine Base 502/435Hp. Roller cam upgrade to 470HP. New Revolution Marine Exhaust. Wieand Stealth Dual plane Highrise Intake. Eddie Marine cooling crossover.
King Cobra drive.1.43:1 drive ratio.Holley 4150/850CFM carb. It's a lot stronger than the old 454HO. That engine would only turn the Hydro prop 4400 RPMs, 68MPH,light load,2 people. I could tell a lot of difference!
Happy Thanksgiving to all,70 degrees here in Gulf Breeze,Fl. today.I took these photos this morning. I will put the boat in the water after I eat turkey and think about all you up north. The date on post photos shows Nov 11. I tried to show date 11/24/05 and messed up. I'm having Bloody Mary's while tending my turkey on the smoker. (the wife is telling me I can't take the boat out because of the Bloody Mary's)
I would love to hear speculation on my top speed predictions.
Once again, Happy Thanksgiving to all
Barry Eller

Mr X
11-24-2005, 01:22 PM
Damn nice looking Barry!
My guess is 72.4 MPH on GPS
I would ditch that prop for a 23 Mirage Plus LAB.
Then I would bet 74.6 MPH on GPS

P.S. watch out for those UFO's up there in Gulf Breeze

BUIZILLA
11-24-2005, 03:41 PM
Barry, you've apparently gained about 100 hp from the old 454-365HO combo... that looks like the original carb setup... did you rejet the carb a little fatter to compensate for that?? what size is the carb, and what jets are in it now, versus stock?

Jim

Barry Eller
11-24-2005, 04:00 PM
Barry, you've apparently gained about 100 hp from the old 454-365HO combo... that looks like the original carb setup... did you re-jet the carb a little fatter to compensate for that?? what size is the carb, and what jets are in it now, versus stock?
Jim
Good afternoon Buizilla
Carb is a 850/4150 Holley.
It has not been re-jetted. However the airvents have been drilled out, it was too rich with the increased vacuum the 502 produced. My carb mech. is a anesthesiologist that happens to be a gear head. Lets me use his boat house and lift,(he doesn't want a boat,but likes me and my Donzi). Who knows more about gas mixtures than a GASPASSER. He has a 1968 Mustang GT 427CID /4 two barrel Weber's that he drag races.
After a few more hours break-in, water pump impeller will come out and we will run a dry exhaust O2 sensor reading and get it perfect.

BUIZILLA
11-24-2005, 04:05 PM
Did he drill all 8 air bleeds, or just the 4 idle air bleeds?? if he did all 8 then it's maybe too lean up top under load, even more so if it still has the stock HO jetting...

just trying to help...

Jim

Barry Eller
11-24-2005, 05:43 PM
Thanks for your reply,
So far only the idle bleeds, until we take a O2 reading and a few WOT runs, take a few spark plug visuals, we will go from there. Tell me what you think we need to do. Any advise is appreciated.

BUIZILLA
11-24-2005, 06:17 PM
PM me with the stock jetting numbers, and what's in there now. Are you using Denso or NGK plugs? stock or MSD electric's?

JH

Barry Eller
11-24-2005, 06:54 PM
Stock settings. I don't know what the Dr. drilled the idle bleeds to. Just enough to get it to idle. Will know more as we test. Anyway it responds better now than ever. Nothing else had been changed. I have always had a problem with engine running too rich, smoot on transom and fouling plugs.Now with only opening the idle circuit a great improvement. No Problem with plugs, idles great, and turns 700 more RPMs and is so much more powerful in all aspects. GPS numbers soon.

Mr X
11-24-2005, 07:46 PM
Mr. X
Thanks for your reply. I have 100 more HP and 50 Cid, better intake and exhaust. You think only a 4MPH gain? I hope for more. I hear MOP knows a thing or two about props, I have a OMC King Cobra drive. I don't think Mercury splines will match. Does Volvo and OMC have the same splines? My drive is the big OMC drive rated for 650 HP and who knows torque rating. Do you think I could use more pitch? I like the handling of the Hydromotive props.
Of course the centers can be pressed out and matched with any prop,so I'm open for sugestions. Untill I get true speed readings@ ?RPMS I am open for sugestions.
Thanks
BSE
The Mercury props will fit just about anything, with the correct interchangeable flo-torque hub. No pressing needed.

Barry Eller
11-24-2005, 07:54 PM
PM me with the stock jetting numbers, and what's in there now. Are you using Denso or NGK plugs? stock or MSD electric's?
JH
Excuse me, Delco MR43T, Stock OMC BID ignition.

Barry Eller
11-24-2005, 08:00 PM
The Mercury props will fit just about anything, with the correct interchangeable flo-torque hub. No pressing needed.
Thanks,
Now I need to find someone with a prop I can try. Don't you like Hydromotive props? Why?

Mr X
11-24-2005, 08:06 PM
Thanks,
Now I need to find someone with a prop I can try. Don't you like Hydromotive props? Why?
Not really, they are just slower.......good for crusing but not for top end speed.

Greg K
11-27-2005, 11:47 PM
Get yourself a 25 pitch Turbo 1, works well with the King Cobra drive. After it's broken in, you should easily see 75mph with your new 502.

p729lws
11-28-2005, 12:04 AM
4 hours on new 502. A short WOT run showed 5100 RPMs. 15"x23" Hydromotive 4 blade. I don't have a GPS, I do have a buddy that does, and soon will have speed numbers. Engine is a new GM Marine Base 502/435Hp. Roller cam upgrade to 470HP. New Revolution Marine Exhaust. Wieland Stealth Dual plane Highrise Intake. Eddie Marine cooling crossover.
King Cobra drive.1.43:1 drive ratio.Holley 4150/850CFM carb. It's a lot stronger than the old 454HO. That engine would only turn the Hydro prop 4400 RPMs, 68MPH,light load,2 people. I could tell a lot of difference!
Happy Thanksgiving to all,70 degrees here in Gulf Breeze,Fl. today.I took these photos this morning. I will put the boat in the water after I eat turkey and think about all you up north. The date on post photos shows Nov 11. I tried to show date 11/24/05 and messed up. I'm having Bloody Mary's while tending my turkey on the smoker. (the wife is telling me I can't take the boat out because of the Bloody Mary's)
I would love to here speculation on my top speed predictions.
Once again, Happy Thanksgiving to all
Barry Eller
YKYFM looks cleaner since the last time I saw her! Sounds like you're getting things fine tuned with the new power plant. Looking forward to hearing her at WOT. You and Zimm17 are making me look bad. I may be the only 22 on the bay without any new bling. I need to get stared on that Alpha to Bravo/IMCO shorty swap.
Thursday was great boating weather! I got into the Wild Turkey and Coke too much while deep frying the bird so we didn't make it out either. The bay stayed fairly flat considering the wind.
Speed prediction? Im running 73 MPH GPS with a POS cleaver and 45 less HP so I'll say 76-77 with the right prop.
Let me know when its time to run again.
Dan

Barry Eller
11-18-2006, 10:26 PM
The 502 in YIPPY-KAI-YAY is still running strong. I just upgraded the old OMC ignition system and replaced the engine wiriring harness. The ignition is MSD.
A new Pro-Billet Distributor, MSD 6M-2 Marine Ignition Control, MSD Blaster Coil, and MSD Plug wires. Idle is great, soot is gone, sparkplugs don't foul in the "NO WAKE" zones.
I have 2 OMC Coil/Modules and a OMC distributor if anyone needs them.
Here is a video, flushing after a run.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1783752684659693491

Carl C
11-19-2006, 08:02 AM
Maybe I overlooked it but what speeds are you getting?? What prop?:alligator

Barry Eller
11-19-2006, 11:03 AM
Maybe I overlooked it but what speeds are you getting?? What prop?:alligator

I don't have a GPS. My VDO speedometer goes to 75. I pull the needle past 75 to the "H" in MPH at the bottom of the speedometer.

I have 2 props. Hydromotive Q-IV 23" and a Ballistic 25". turns around 4600 RPMS with the Ballistic, 5000 with the Hydromotive.

I will say that I run faster than a local 22' Velocity that claims 75 MPH on GPS. The Ballistic prop is the faster of the two props I have, but the hole shot I get with the Hydro (remember I have a King Cobra drive with 1.43 to 1 ratio) is fantastic.

Barry Eller
11-19-2006, 07:29 PM
I need back up here buddy, these guys don't think a King Cobra will go very fast!!:superman: :yippie: :jestera: :checkered

Dr. Dan
11-19-2006, 09:04 PM
:smash: Barry ... I have a King Cobra on my 22 Classic and I have switched mostly to the "TXP" variety...I have a 25 TXP and a 26 TXP, they are 3 Blade and run very impressive behind my little 502!

If you can't find one to use, I will be happy to ship them down to you to experiment with...your gonna have to have the correct Thrust washers...Poodle can hook you up. I also have a regular 25 Turbo - Rubber Hub...and it also ran fine.:bonk:

Personally I would just buy one from Poodle...just determine the pitch you want.... I started with a 23 originally...then graduated to the 25 after putting in the 502.

Let me know...

Doc :cool!:

Barry Eller
11-20-2006, 07:12 AM
:smash: Barry ... I have a King Cobra on my 22 Classic and I have switched mostly to the "TXP" variety...I have a 25 TXP and a 26 TXP, they are 3 Blade and run very impressive behind my little 502!
If you can't find one to use, I will be happy to ship them down to you to experiment with...your gonna have to have the correct Thrust washers...Poodle can hook you up. I also have a regular 25 Turbo - Rubber Hub...and it also ran fine.:bonk:
Personally I would just buy one from Poodle...just determine the pitch you want.... I started with a 23 originally...then graduated to the 25 after putting in the 502.
Let me know...
Doc :cool!:

Dr. Dan, Turbo props have been recommended by several people. I'm just gonna have to get one. What is the "TPX", and how does it differ from the other Turbo props. I've heard you have a strong running boat, a "Blue Motor", isn't it? What speeds have you had it? What RPMs with the 25" and 26"? I think I am going fast enough (What is FAST ENOUGH?) without some external steering, but I don't know of any products for the King Cobra drives. My guess is I am getting close to 77-80 MPH. I need to get a GPS. But GPS speeds can be misleading... running with a 5 MPH current will give a false surface speed, like a headwind or tailwind in aircraft. :yes: :boat:

Dr. Dan
11-20-2006, 10:20 AM
:smash: Barry I have a healthy HP500 EFI, my current best no current GPS Speed is 80.5 or so.... I have yet to reach the Rev Limiter, I am told it is at 5250 on my Motor. I am able to hit the 80mph mark with any of the Props I listed, my goal is to break into the 82 to 84 MPH range, which I am pretty sure will be my boats Max Speed as it is today. My largest limiting factor is the "Size of My Balls" when I am going for a max speed run and then I run into wakes or other Traffic or water conditions that I deem not to be condusive to "ideal high speed run conditions" sooo I back off. Mind you at the highest speed I have gone the Boat was rock stable, no chine walking at all because with my Motor, I do not have to over trim it to reach those speeds. So that being considered....it's kinda neat to realize you are moving that fast and still have more to go if ya want it, I also normally run my boat with Nuetral Trim Tab Position ...so technically they are dragging a bit also...so when I really wanna hump...I trim them completely up and and play with the Trim on the Drive...it's like a Turbo Charger...you can absolutely feel the boat let loose and start to unadhere to the surface of the water... I have only experienced that extreme momentum a few times...but it is unmistakeable when conditions are right and it does occur. What a Rush!!!!:wink:

As to the TXP vs a regular Turbo, The first thing you will notice is the Snout is Straight and No Diffuser Flare at the Trailing edge of the hub...TXP's also have thinner tappered blades which are given more "Rake" than the standard Turbos...they really are a Base Boat Prop...they also have a bit more "Cup" so they bite hard , my slip is under 10% consistently.... I have now purchased both Hub Kits so if a buddy has a Bravo and he wants to try my prop he can...I get tired of the Bravo vs. King Cobra Spline dilemma.

My RPMs are max at about 5200 with the regular Turbo.... with the TXP 25 slightly less, maybe 5100, the 26 TXP I am still experimenting with...I know I have been to 75 mph with it, fully fueled and it was only turning 4500 rpms, so I think I can get that dog to where my boat has not been before...time will tell.

As for Steering, I have gotten quotes from Latham, starting at $7500, uninstalled for a Custom System...personally I will likely invest that kinda jing in a New XR with the ITS System eventually. To be honest I have had no issues with the King Cobra, and I will likely drive it as is until it breaks.

I have had Buizilla and Poodle in my boat...and a couple others from here...and they can attest to my Conservative Driving, and overall reliable and strong performance of the King Cobra....but the Blue Motor has alot to do with the Grin Factor.

Be Well, Good Luck

Doc:cool!:

Barry Eller
11-22-2006, 08:04 AM
Doc, sounds like fun, I am not sure of my motors actual horsepower. The Company I bought the Crate Motor from told me the Base engine horse power was 435. They upgraded the camshaft to produce 470 hp. This they calculated using stock exhaust and intake manifold. I upgraded the exhaust and intake and eliminated the belt driven water pump with the crossover. These upgrades should increase horsepower somewhat, the revolution exhaust claims over 10% gain, Wieand Stealth claims 5%, eliminating recirculating water pump1%, K&N filters' claim is "way" up there! You do the math! I''m sure, engine builders rate their horsepower at the crankshaft not the prop.

How much horsepower is lost from the crankshaft to the prop in a King Cobra drive?

FlyingDutchman76
11-22-2006, 12:21 PM
That looks and sounds great. Where did you get your new engine ? I ma looking for some upgrades, too. Engine swap ? ProCharger ? I am confused :confused:

Barry Eller
11-22-2006, 05:54 PM
That looks and sounds great. Where did you get your new engine ? I ma looking for some upgrades, too. Engine swap ? ProCharger ? I am confused :confused:

Happy Thanksgiving Flying Dutchman. I bought my GM Marine Base 502 from a company in Maine www.1800runsnew.com

I bought most of my accessories from Eddie Marine and my exhaust from Revolution Marine.

Jerry Eisele
11-23-2006, 07:26 AM
Berry and Doc, Happy Thanksgiving!! You guys are the kings of the Cobra drives. Itllfli rod with Doc in the fall and said it was a stong running 22' great thred, have a safe Holiday

Dr. Dan
11-23-2006, 11:26 AM
Doc, sounds like fun, I am not sure of my motors actual horsepower. The Company I bought the Crate Motor from told me the Base engine horse power was 435. They upgraded the camshaft to produce 470 hp. This they calculated using stock exhaust and intake manifold. I upgraded the exhaust and intake and eliminated the belt driven water pump with the crossover. These upgrades should increase horsepower somewhat, the revolution exhaust claims over 10% gain. However I''m sure they rate the horsepower at the crankshaft not the prop.
How much horsepower is lost from the crankshaft to the prop in a King Cobra drive?

:smash: Barry I would be speculating to give you a figure for Parasitic Drag from the drive...and I am sure it would vary from Drive to Drive regardless of manufacture? I have been told to many formulas for determining horsepower gains and speed calcs. I like playing with the Prop Calculators, and plug in different variables. Once you get over a certain speed for "A Given Hull" it takes an even more exponential gain in HP to produce the same resultant gain at an even higher speed range!

For example...it might be easier to go from a Top Speed of 68 MPH to 74 MPH, but to get from 75 to 82 mph will take more of an increase, and further still...going from say 80 mph to 90 mph will take almost twice as much HP Gain proportionately as it took to gain the last 10 mph?

To prove the point you can look at the few 22's that actually can break the 80 mph mark, as I recall this club includes less than a dozen boats.

Catch 22 is the Fastest at 92 ish MPH
Big Grizzly is next at say 87 + MPH
Then I think it would be George Culottas 22, which I believe if it's ever propped correctly it will be up there with Jim Collins.
And let's include Yeller with his 40th Anniversary Edition...top Speed unknown.

From there it drops down to Todd , RickS, and I with our HP 500's, if Poodle ever actaully attends any Events this year...I fully expect him to be in the Mid 80's with his skunk works.

But the thing to consider is this....the 3 Fastest 22's in the country(excluding Ted's (X-Mans) excellent adventure) and the guy in Lake George who again never attends our Events.... have to have closer to 200 to 300 more horsepower to get into that upper 80 to lower 90 mph range. That's alot of Muscle to move that same Mass, just 8 to 12 mph faster than our lower 80 MPH boats.

:spongebob I gained over 20 mph from my Anemic 330 Horse 454, to the current Mystery Horsepower HP500 EFI. So I am guessing my Motor has to be putting out 525 to 540 horses to make that happen. But its just a guess, the fun is running with the other fast boats... most of the Owners are very experienced and very good Drivers so its a great thing to be able to Cruise at 75 mph and still have alot left for what ever reason....

I hope to run with you some time Barry, I attend the Owners Rally when I can...but I seldom miss the DustOff, Lake Winnie or the Fall Picnic...I am going to try to do Kentucky again next May in Lake Cumberland.


Jerry, Byron was gracious enough to allow me to keep company with the lovely Miss Jill and his Beautiful Cousin Linda in Florida...so life was good!
The boat runs good, its not the fastest, but it gets along pretty well, and it doesn't break... I am looking forward to a great 2007 Season.

Be Well Guys and Happy Thanksgiving! :beer:

Doc of the Bay

yeller
11-23-2006, 12:06 PM
To prove the point you can look at the few 22's that actually can break the 80 mph mark, as I recall this club includes less than a dozen boats.

Catch 22 is the Fastest at 92 ish MPH
Big Grizzly is next at say 87 + MPH
Then I think it would be George Culottas 22, which I believe if it's ever propped correctly it will be up there with Jim Collins.

From there it drops down to Todd , RickS, and I with our HP 500's, if Poodle ever actaully attends any Events this year...I fully expect him to be in the Mid 80's with his skunk works.

Sniff, sniff....Can't I be included in your club.....sniff, sniff. :wink: :wink:


...so its a great thing to be able to Cruise at 75 mph and still have alot left for what ever reason....That is sooo true. The best part of a faster boat isn't the top speed, it is the higher cruising speeds. :yes:

Barry Eller
11-23-2006, 12:14 PM
:smash: Barry I would be speculating to give you a figure for Parasitic Drag from the drive...and I am sure it would vary from Drive to Drive regardless of manufacture? I have been told to many formulas for determining horsepower gains and speed calcs. I like playing with the Prop Calculators, and plug in different variables. Once you get over a certain speed for "A Given Hull" it takes an even more exponential gain in HP to produce the same resultant gain at an even higher speed range!
For example...it might be easier to go from a Top Speed of 68 MPH to 74 MPH, but to get from 75 to 82 mph will take more of an increase, and further still...going from say 80 mph to 90 mph will take almost twice as much HP Gain proportionately as it took to gain the last 10 mph?
To prove the point you can look at the few 22's that actually can break the 80 mph mark, as I recall this club includes less than a dozen boats.
Catch 22 is the Fastest at 92 ish MPH
Big Grizzly is next at say 87 + MPH
Then I think it would be George Culottas 22, which I believe if it's ever propped correctly it will be up there with Jim Collins.
From there it drops down to Todd , RickS, and I with our HP 500's, if Poodle ever actaully attends any Events this year...I fully expect him to be in the Mid 80's with his skunk works.
But the thing to consider is this....the 3 Fastest 22's in the country(excluding Ted's (X-Mans) excellent adventure) and the guy in Lake George who again never attends our Events.... have to have closer to 200 to 300 more horsepower to get into that upper 80 to lower 90 mph range. That's alot of Muscle to move that same Mass, just 8 to 12 mph faster than our lower 80 MPH boats.
:spongebob I gained over 20 mph from my Anemic 330 Horse 454, to the current Mystery Horsepower HP500 EFI. So I am guessing my Motor has to be putting out 525 to 540 horses to make that happen. But its just a guess, the fun is running with the other fast boats... most of the Owners are very experienced and very good Drivers so its a great thing to be able to Cruise at 75 mph and still have alot left for what ever reason....
I hope to run with you some time Barry, I attend the Owners Rally when I can...but I seldom miss the DustOff, Lake Winnie or the Fall Picnic...I am going to try to do Kentucky again next May in Lake Cumberland.
Jerry, Byron was gracious enough to allow me to keep company with the lovely Miss Jill and his Beautiful Cousin Linda in Florida...so life was good!
The boat runs good, its not the fastest, but it gets along pretty well, and it doesn't break... I am looking forward to a great 2007 Season.
Be Well Guys and Happy Thanksgiving! :beer:
Doc of the Bay
"The boat runs good, its not the fastest, but it gets along pretty well, and it doesn't break... I am looking forward to a great 2007 Season." Quote by Dr.Dan


My sentiments exactly! I intend no upgrades from here. I want to enjoy my Donzi and not be hung up on being the fastest. I have a response when people see my Donzi and ask how fast it goes; "Fast..., it's not the fastest..., but It's faster than most, and I'm happy with it".

My 502 is 1 year old now, I have around 40 hours on it, mostly dialing everything in, and repairing/replacing things as nec. It is now a very dependable machine.

I'm planning on running the Donzi this Sunday. The weather is to be in the mid 70's and clear, no wind. I may make a video of some part of the day and post it, not to tease my northern brothers, but to let you share in my good fortune to live in a beautiful place as I do, and to share the Donzi Experience with "Ya'll"!

Yes, born "Southern" American!!

Happy Thanksgiving to All of You!!!

Barry

Dr. Dan
11-24-2006, 12:12 PM
Sniff, sniff....Can't I be included in your club.....sniff, sniff. :wink: :wink:
That is sooo true. The best part of a faster boat isn't the top speed, it is the higher cruising speeds. :yes:

:wink: Yeller I edited my list, the omission was not intentional...but as far as I know ... I think you are still in that serious "Seat Time experimental mode" so I am not aware of just how fast your rig scoots...but I did add it to the mix.

Doc of Modified Lists :cool:

yeller
11-24-2006, 11:11 PM
Yeller I edited my list...Now that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. :biggrin.: :biggrin.: