Sweet 16 performance & exhaust manifold questions

[Jeff V]

I have a Classic 16, 1991 OMC Ford 302, 190 hp, through hull exhaust, bought new and I'm going to add some HP to the existing engine, ultimately thinking about ending up with about 300 hp. I decided to rebuild the existing one vs a replacement or changing to a 351W, for several reasons including low/no cost machine work. I'm aware of the limltations of the OMC Cobra drive and will live with it/ drive accordingly for the time being. I have some questions that maybe some of you can answer. BTW, I would like to keep the existing boat vs going the replacement route just because I like the size and have the sentimental attachment.

1. Does anyone know what is the fastest speed this 16' hull design can handle before it gets an uncontrollable chime walk?

2. What is a good or best source for a purchasing a high performance manifold/exhaust system that would fit the Ford 302 ? A friend that works on marine engines has told me the existing one wouldn't be adequate for what I'm doing. I'd like to stay within the confines of the existing engine cover.

Jeff

[mattyboy]

there are hulls here that run up into the high 70's low 80's
things to take into account for handling trim ,x dimension, and prop, to me the right prop makes a world of difference as to how the boat behaves


i think moody blu on the boards used hitek exhaust they are from down under but make ford stuff also you can go the custom made route but that is $$$$$$$$$

you need to reach out to guys like rootsy,sam,bill nagy especially he has a plum crazy ford omc setup

[Kirk]

ROOTSY

Results should give you a better understanding of what is possible with the 16...Jamie's boat is powered by a built up 350 and has all the bells and whistles. In fact the last time I looked his boat was for sale and a great value.

Good Luck,

KJ

[mattyboy]

check out the photo gallery section look for the lake george dustoff and the lake george fall picnic you'll find pics of Bill Nagy's setup, again Rootsy and Sam are in your neck of the woods they run bowties and alphas but are great sources for running the 16 fast

[Sam]

Jeff, If I were you I would talk to guys like Turbo and Tony just to name a couple, both have experience with Fords. As for your question about speed and the lack of control on a 16, well there is no "one" correct answer. There are just to many variables, which we all know. I believe Rootsy's 16 was running in the mid to upper 70"s before he moth balled it. My last run of this season put mine @74mph :rlol:. At those speeds you have to really drive the boat, there is no time for day dreaming :bonk:.

I can tell you this, props will make or break you as it realtes to handeling. I have tried some props that made my boat act like it was on bad crack:boggled:. You may have some trouble getting your hands props to test given your OMC drive unlike those of us running Merc IO's. Let us know if you have any specific set up questions..........and bring that bad boy to Lk Cumberland this spring for AOTH.

Your Humble Servant
Sam

[mattyboy]

Sam,
are you running an alpha SS????

they make some wild looking props for the omc this is what Bill Nagy runs
looks like it came off a food processor ;)

[Rootsy]

what sam said

[Sam]

Yep ! I'm running an SS with a 24.5" Hydromotive OT for now:wink: . I think that prop on you posted that's on Bill's boat is a Ballistic. I don't hear to much about them other than the quality controll at the mfg palnt isn't the best. I've always wanted to try one though just based on the shape of the blade.

Sam

[Tony]

Welcome...it is always good to see another 16', especially with Ford power!

With a lot of advice from this board, and the help of a great Ford-specific engine shop, below is what my 302 now looks like. Lots of power and torque, but the trouble is I am plowing through the water with my original Volvo AQ200b outdrive. This bulletproof (but bulbous!) outdrive will just not quit! I am sure this is what is limiting me to a top end of about 60 mph. While my 14 x 24 Ultra prop works well for top speed, I usually find that my 14 x 21 standard aluminum gives the best all-around performance. Great hole shot, good mid-range pop, and an acceptable top speed...especially since there is a bit of "squirrelyness" above 55 because of some "helmet slop" in my trusty 'ol AQ200!

• 302 Ford, 300 hp @ 5400 rpms
• Roush 200 cast iron heads
• Kodiak exhaust, thru-hull ss tips
• Edelbock intake manifold
• Crane cam (H-260-2; 204*/216*)
• MSD ignition
• Holley carburater, #1611
• Miloden oil pan
• TRW forged flat-top pistons
• Eagle SIR rods
• Melling oil pump
• Hydraulic lifters
• Moly top rings
• Cleavite bearings
• Ferrea Inconel marine valves
• Z-28 springs, 100 lbs. on seat
• Comp retainers/keepers, 10*
• bored .30 over, crank .010 - .010

[mphatc]

There's alot of power in a 302 without spending huge dollars.
My 302 . .(in my Corsican) puts out 333 HP at 4800 rpm has >300 ft lbs torque from 3200 rpm to 5200 rpm. Torque line . . not torque curve! :smash:
1996 302 Block
GT40P heads with no porting or port matching
Edelbrock Air Gap with a 650 Holley
9.0 :1 Sealed power .020" over pistons, single eybrow flat top
1969 302 crankshaft
Forged steel rods
Melling HV oil pump
Comp roller rockers
Bullet custom grind camshaft
Comp roller hyd lifters
Pertronix in the original Prestolite distributor from 1969!
all thru the H&M logs . . my big restriction!
Easy build, runs on 89 octane. There's more there, but this is enough with the Bravo drive it pushes the Corsican to the 70s :smile:
Mario L.

[MOP]

Mario glad to so you posted you little gem, you know I still like my Ford blocks. My 91 16 had a 302+ .030, GT40 shaved 20, mild cam and 350cfm 2 barrel and stock iron through drive exhaust best ever was 57.9. With a 600 4 barrel and good TT exhaust I think it would have pushed it into the bottom of the 60's

Jeff don't worry about the drive it is a little bit stronger then an Alpha which I feel does a very good job on a 16+18.

Phil

[Jeff V]

You guys are all awesome. I can't believe the replies in one day to my first ever post to this forum.:wavey:

I'm using a stainless 14 1/4 x 23 prop now and the top speed non gps verified, is a squirly wild ride 64 if you give me a mile of lake to work with. RPM's are 4200 at best. I've tried a few different props supplied by a local shop and can't believe the difference in handling but all at a significant loss in top end. I'm hoping that the extra 100+ hp I want to add will let me use a better all round performing prop and gain a little on the top end from where I'm at now.

Just spent a couple hours trying to track down a high perf. manifolds for the 302 Ford and no luck. Kodiak no longer makes them, Imco doesn't and I haven't heard from Hitek yet. Any other suggestions? I'd rather no go the custom route if possible.

Thanks aqain for all the response. I'm impressed! I just need to figure out who's who now.

[Forrest]

. . . Kodiak no longer makes them . . .

Darn, I really hate to hear that. The Kodiak is (was) the way to go for a small-block Ford exhaust system. The Kodiaks are light weight and flow very well - and light weight is what you need to make your 16 run well. In my opinion the 302 Ford with a light-weight exhaust system is the way to go on a 16, since the 302 is about 150 lb lighter than a small-block Chevrolet. Anywhere you can save weigh, especially in the stern, on a 16 will help the handling and overall performance. You can go a little faster with the extra weight and lager cubes of a 351 Ford or a 350/383 Chevrolet than with the 302, but I feel that he balance and handling of the smaller, lighter-weight engine makes up for the few extra MPH of the that you can get out of the larger cube engines. BTW the Alpha SS is the best overall improvement that you can do to a 16. The Alpha SS takes the squirlyness out of the 16. The stock outdrive is just too deep in the water for the 16. A cleaver prop may help and may be worth a try on your setup, but only testing will tell.

My 1972 16 Ski Sport:
Alpha SS (1.50:1)
302 Ford w/factory heads (lightly ported)
KB dome pistons (9.4:1)
Crane H-272-2 kit
Kodiak exhaust
Edelbrock Performer 289 intake
Holley 450 cfm 4160
Mallory Marine magnetic dist
Mercury outboard 23"p 3-blade cleaver
GPS 70.2 MPH @ 5100 RPM

[mattyboy]

Forrest hit the nail on the head there.
having a volvo driven 351w 16, the 351w has enuff HP but with the added weight has it effect on handling, watching newer 302 or older 302 boats and even 16s with worked v6s they move right along and seem to handle a lil better than mine, at 1000 islands if you looked at Tony's 16 and mine side by side you'd think mine was sinking ;)

[Jeff V]

I did find that Indmar makes an aluminum manifold for about 1800. Have been told that it's not much better than a stock in terms of performance.

The comments on weight are well taken and make sense. I talked to a fellow who simply changed out intake and exxhaust manifolds and picked up about 3 mph. I had considererd a 351W for the better longevity but really hadn't thought about the added weight.

I heard that a company called Nickson made a nice manifold for the Ford small block. Maybe the best bet is to find a good used set somewhere. Any thoughts anyone?

[Jeff V]

I did find that Indmar makes an aluminum manifold for about 1800.. Have been told that it's not much better in performance over the stock OMC one. I heard a company called Nickson used to make a nice one also.

Your comments on weight are appreciated and make sense , as I was considering the 351W option.

Now, does anyone out there know of any good used high perf. manifolds for the 302 Ford?

Has anyone ever changed out a Cobra outdrive to a King Cobra? Do they bolt on? Any issues with the depth or X dimension?

[mrfixxall]

jeff,kodiac makes a set of alunimum performance exhaust manifolds,,let me know if i can help....thay also make them with s.s. risers too.....their way cheeper then indmar..in reguards to you onc out drive...i would leave you cobra drive on the boat..with the king cobra drive you will have to add a sea pump to the motor that means you will have to find the rite pullys etc....One of my customers has a regular cobra drive on his liberator 211 and has a 468 pumping almost 500hp into it with a stiff 4 blade propeller so i dont think you will have any problems more ponys into the drive you have....

[mattyboy]

ok, I admit I'm not to quick on the up take????
but is Kodiak still around???

[mrfixxall]

Good question matty,my 2005 rex marine cat still shows them..Ill call on monday and let yall know..i still have 2 sets of sbc instock.......

[mattyboy]

Jeff,
you might want to reach out to mr fixall maybe kodiak stopped producing them but that doesn't mean someone does't have a set on a shelf somewhere.

I have toyed with the idea of a new hipo exhaust system but that would basically ruin the originality of a 67 holman moody setup with all the original stuff plus the paper work from the factory and holman moody to back it up serial numbers match and all

[mrfixxall]

ok i was wron,,i called some of my supplyers and thay said that kodiak was bought by powerflo and thay stopped making them for fords,,,,cp performance has the indmar for under a thousand ..or mabe you could send them to wilson and them port and flo them..ask buelilla he might know someone that can flo your stock stuff because he raced that stock apperance class.............

[BUIZILLA]

The guy that does my stock appearing intake/exhaust stuff works at Wilson Manifolds now..... he also built the engine in my Nova/Mighty Mouse.... purty sharp kid.... he'll be at PRI in the Wilson booth.

JH

[Jeff V]

I talked with a bloke from Australia from HI-tek and he gave me the low down on their product.
http://www.hitekmarine.com.au/home.htm

Stainless steel fabricated headers surrounded by a stainless steel jacket. 5 yr warranty and they've never had one come back. About $1460 US for the pair. Weight 12 lbs. Says that on a Chevy 350 equiped with Indmar exhaust the change over to Hitek gained 20 HP and 30 lbs torque on the dyno. So, I'm inclined to give them a try...with the weight loss from the exhaust manifolds, and another 120-130 HP or so from the 331 stroker kit the 302 Donzi should do what I want it to do. Thanks for the input on the output! :jestera:
Is the Lake Cumberland get together as good a time as it looks?

[Tony]

Is the Lake Cumberland get together as good a time as it looks?

YES!

[Moody Blu']

I know nothing of fords:wink:

I ordered the cp performance manifolds with stainless risers, then found hi tek's site and cancelled my order just in time. How could I not have? the other exhausts out for the fords are either aluminum or cast steel manifolds with seperate risers. the hi teks are true STainless tubular headers with no risers needed. Only other company to make something like this is CMI and they cost 5000.

the hi tek headers you see in the pic are the first of there kind. 3" inner diam, 4" outer diam. I got them BARE stainless. will be custom powdercoating them when the time is right. They made a substantial gain in power all around.

heres a little vid clip, you can hear the motor a little bit

http://www.youtube.com/?v=5Hxt_f0OVoM

[Jeff V]

Is that a plane or a boat? Thanks for the input. My HiTek manifolds should be here in a few weeks.

Jeff

[Moody Blu']

Is that a plane or a boat? Thanks for the input. My HiTek manifolds should be here in a few weeks.
Jeff

sweet, did you go with the 3" inner diam like mine or the
2"inner diam?