View Full Version : Drive broke today....
gcarter
11-05-2005, 08:21 PM
Yep...Alpha one Gen 1, almost 20 years old!
Elaine and I were taking some English friends for a ride and lunch, having a really great time, and only about three miles from the ramp. We were cruising about 48 MPH when the RPM's took off, I throttled back and put it in neutral. There was nothing there. We floated around for awhile and were able to flag down a passing 'toon boat. The owner said that he's towed many a sail boat.
I decided I wasn't humiliated at all. We were really grateful for the tow.
I haven't had an opportunity to look at it yet as we had plans for the rest of the day. I was really surprised there no noise, banging, grinding, etc.
Maybe I'll have a chance to look at it tomorrow. I told Elaine that I'm almost relieved. I figured it would go sooner or later. If it has been abused like the rest of the boat had been, I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did.
I think I'll look into one of those after market drives we've all seen.
Sorry to hear it George. Are you sure it wasn't the coupler? A busted drive usually makes plenty of noise.
gcarter
11-05-2005, 08:46 PM
It crossed my mind, but there was no smell and it let go instantly. Does that sound right?
When mine let go, there was lots of black rubber smoke. I imagine they can break in other ways other than burning. Was it the original coupler?
mrfixxall
11-05-2005, 08:54 PM
i think cudas on the rite track,,coupler or mabe spun the hub in the prop..check the gear oil for shavings also...
gcarter
11-05-2005, 08:59 PM
When mine let go, there was lots of black rubber smoke. I imagine they can break in other ways other than burning. Was it the original coupler?
I think it had been replaced becaused it had a grease fitting on the side in the spline area. I understand the early ones didn't have it.
As for the hub, the prop and shaft spin together out of the water. But I haven't removed it.
Ed Donnelly
11-05-2005, 09:00 PM
Lets hope you just spun the hub. Sure would be the cheapest and easiest of the three.....:crossfing ...Ed
gcarter
11-05-2005, 09:01 PM
Lets hope you just spun the hub. Sure would be the cheapest and easiest of the three.....:crossfing ...Ed
That would be nice.
G, did you try it again when you got back to the ramp? Most of the time, a spun prop will hold enough to get you back to the dock at an idle when it cools down.
DonziDave
11-05-2005, 09:12 PM
Check the coupler first. Mine broke during a hole shot a few years ago. No bang, noise, or smell, just instant 6000 RPM before I count pull it back. One of the primary causes of coupler failure is engine mis-alignment. The engine vibrate the engine mount bolts loose. Tighten all bolts every year.
A true story: To have the coupler replaced, I took my boat to a friend who has his own one man marine repair business. I pulled into his shop at 8:00 that morning. He pulled the drive, unhooked/unbolted all items connected to the engine, pulled the engine, installed the new coupler, installed and wired a new bilge pump, re-installed the engine and aligned (took a while), hooked everything back up, re-installed the drive, and tested with the earmuffs.
I drove out at 12:00 Noon...4 HOURS...!!! He's amazing....!!! :eek:
gcarter
11-05-2005, 09:14 PM
No, I didn't try it again. In fact I raised the drive while I was being towed.
Also while trying to get it into gear, there was no "clunk" in either direction. Nothing.
Trueser
11-05-2005, 09:16 PM
I vote coupler, I have a spare upper drive if you need one George.
HAve you greased that Spline?
I also have a 86 coupler in great shape.
Mike
gcarter
11-05-2005, 09:18 PM
I vote coupler, I have a spare upper drive if you need one George.
HAve you greased that Spline?
I also have a 86 coupler in great shape.
Mike
It would seem to be a coupler, but I would have expected it to burn. I will check it first. Thanks for the offer Mike.
Yep, I grease it with Merc spline grease.
gold-n-rod
11-05-2005, 09:21 PM
Doesn't it seem that one always needs to be towed when one is entertaining others on the boat?
The only time I have ever been towed in 30 years of boating was this summer. We took the couple next door out for the afternoon in the Mach 1. Returning to the launch, I throttled back, it stalled, wouldn't restart and we had to get towed by a PWC. :banghead:
Ran perfect every other time. <shrug>
Doesn't it seem that one always needs to be towed when one is entertaining others on the boat?
The only time I have ever been towed in 30 years of boating was this summer. We took the couple next door out for the afternoon in the Mach 1. Returning to the launch, I throttled back, it stalled, wouldn't restart and we had to get towed by a PWC. :banghead:
Ran perfect every other time. <shrug>
Deb and I said the same thing about the Minx. The only time it breaks down, is if we have people with us. :(
gcarter
11-05-2005, 09:25 PM
Doesn't it seem that one always needs to be towed when one is entertaining others on the boat?
The only time I have ever been towed in 30 years of boating was this summer. We took the couple next door out for the afternoon in the Mach 1. Returning to the launch, I throttled back, it stalled, wouldn't restart and we had to get towed by a PWC. :banghead:
Ran perfect every other time. <shrug>
Randy, what's worse, getting towed by a PWC or a 'toon boat?
onesubdrvr
11-05-2005, 09:26 PM
George,
First, sorry to hear of your problems, especially since you had guests :boggled:
I too would tend to lean towards the coupler, when I spun mine on the Ragazza (although it's an OMC drive), when I popped the hatch, there was only a quick puff of burn smell, so it's possible that if it wasn't held on by much, and if you cut it off quick, the smell might have dissapated before you got the hatch open and a trained sniffer back there, but I guess we'll see!!
Of course, I did loose my drive at the same time, soooooo,........
Good luck on getting her fixed up!
Wayne
gold-n-rod
11-05-2005, 09:31 PM
Randy, what's worse, getting towed by a PWC or a 'toon boat?
Flip a coin, George. Either way, it would make me want to wear a bag over my head. Then again, beggars can't be choosers. (Thanks, Mom)!!!!!
:wavey:
Mercrewser
11-05-2005, 09:50 PM
My money is on the upper gears. (sorry):redface:
pmreed
11-05-2005, 10:02 PM
Sorry to hear about the problem:confused: (I won't say drive:D ). No clunk pretty much eliminates a spun prop. Coupler maybe. If it is, I'm sure it wasn't your alignment. I know how meticulous you were while aligning and how solid your mounts are. If it's the upper, I've heard good things about those aftermarket replacements.
Phil
George if it is not the prop hub pray for the drive, the heck with having to pull the engine to swap a coupler. Plus with a 20 year old drive consider it insurance, you were riding on borrowed time!
MOP
txtaz
11-06-2005, 07:27 AM
George, Sorry to hear it. But, that's boats right? I would be tempted to replace the drive anyway just for safety and security. Everything else on the boat has been redone, why not the drive?
Da Taz
mattyboy
11-06-2005, 07:43 AM
sorry to hear that george,
when my uppers went it made a horrific noise, when i spun the hub it atleast gave me a lil at idle speed before slipping, I have a video of genading my drive, but that would lend me to think coupler, would be a winter project up here but a PIA in never ending boat land :( well on the bright side maybe when you pull the motor for the coupler it with be easier to get off the trailer and flip over for the gel work
fasttrucker
11-06-2005, 07:57 AM
I vote for spun hub!Ive been their done that.:wavey:
BUIZILLA
11-06-2005, 08:05 AM
GC, my Minx did the exact same thing...... it's the drive. Visited the world famous Poodle Parts Pound, and did the overhaul myself with the HD gears.
Look at the splines in the upper case driveshaft gear first.... there's an easy way to check for that. There's an easier way to check for a bad coupler too...
JH
DonziJon
11-06-2005, 06:24 PM
I thought I knew where everything was. Where's the coupler in an Out Drive?? In a strait inboard I know what it is. :lookaroun
I thought I knew where everything was. Where's the coupler in an Out Drive?? In a strait inboard I know what it is. :lookaroun
It bolts to the flywheel.
DonziJon
11-06-2005, 07:10 PM
It bolts to the flywheel.
Just like a "Strait Inboard" then??? Wait: The flywheel on a strait inboard is usually on the front (foreward) end of the engine. The rear end of the engine has the "coupler"..which is a pair of "Flanges" bolted together and keyed, to the engine crankshaft... The other side (aft) of the coupler is keyed to the propshaft.
With an outdrive, I have always presumed that the splined shaft that is connected to the double universal on the outdrive is splined directly into a female spline in the crankshaft in the engine. Am I wrong??? :lookaroun
Wait again: The engine in an outdrive arrangement is "Flywheel Aft". SO: Please clarify. :bonk:
Just like a "Strait Inboard" then??? Wait: The flywheel on a strait inboard is usually on the front (foreward) end of the engine. The rear end of the engine has the "coupler"..which is a pair of "Flanges" bolted together and keyed, to the engine crankshaft... The other side (aft) of the coupler is keyed to the propshaft.
With an outdrive, I have always presumed that the splined shaft that is connected to the double universal on the outdrive is splined directly into a female spline in the crankshaft in the engine. Am I wrong??? :lookaroun
Wait again: The engine in an outdrive arrangement is "Flywheel Aft". SO: Please clarify. :bonk:
I'm not sure I understand the question. It bolts to the flywheel, then the splined shaft from the outdives slides into it.
joseph m. hahnl
11-06-2005, 07:36 PM
Just like a "Strait Inboard" then??? Wait: The flywheel on a strait inboard is usually on the front (foreward) end of the engine. The rear end of the engine has the "coupler"..which is a pair of "Flanges" bolted together and keyed, to the engine crankshaft... The other side (aft) of the coupler is keyed to the propshaft.
With an outdrive, I have always presumed that the splined shaft that is connected to the double universal on the outdrive is splined directly into a female spline in the crankshaft in the engine. Am I wrong??? :lookaroun
Wait again: The engine in an outdrive arrangement is "Flywheel Aft". SO: Please clarify. :bonk:
In a I / O the coupler bolts to the fly wheel like a clutch plate. the drive shaft never touches the fly wheel or crank shaft itself. I think the coupler is like a giant vibration damper. It is multi piece and I assume it is bonded together by rubber.I have never seen one taken apart or broken so I'm not positive about that. But I think that is why they are unrepairable.
joe
It is multi piece and I assume it is bonded together by rubber.
joe
Yes they are rubber, and when you burn one, there is no mistaking the smell, or the billowing black smoke! Don't ask how I know. :(
Rootsy
11-07-2005, 06:25 AM
Sorry to hear you are having issues George... if you need tools just ask Bertram Boy, he's hording all of my sterndrive tools at the moment :biggrin.:
give the coupler a check and the prop hub.. the no noise thing is kind of loopy... if the drive lets go, especially the upper gearset it's pretty noisy... 3/8 12 pt socket gets the top cap off for ya so you can inspect the upper gears...
drain the oil you'll know pretty quickly if it's fubar inside...
mighta twisted off the upper spline on the vertical driveshaft as jim was getting at... that'll be pretty quiet and she'll overheat since you're not spinning the water pump.
JR
mighta twisted off the upper spline on the vertical driveshaft as jim was getting at... that'll be pretty quiet and she'll overheat since you're not spinning the water pump.
JR
Mr Carter has a crank driven water pump. :)
Morgan's Cloud
11-07-2005, 09:24 AM
I'm one of those people whose splines went south when the coupler failed .... So don't beleive that you'll always get burning rubber smell when one fails because there was NO rubber odor for me.
Of course , with a crankshaft mounted water pump you'll still get cooling water so it really could be 'in' the boat or 'in' the lower unit.
Let's hope it's the easy fix ...
I'd sure love to have that guy who did the whole coupler job in 4 hours as my neighbour !
I'm one of those people whose splines went south when the coupler failed .... So don't beleive that you'll always get burning rubber smell when one fails because there was NO rubber odor for me.
Of course , with a crankshaft mounted water pump you'll still get cooling water so it really could be 'in' the boat or 'in' the lower unit.
Let's hope it's the easy fix ...
I'd sure love to have that guy who did the whole coupler job in 4 hours as my neighbour !
That's exactly what I was thinking, the splines sheared off, not burning.
gcarter
11-07-2005, 09:58 AM
Put the drive down this morning.
I had decided to not comment again till I had a chance to try some of the ideas all of you had mentioned.
First I removed the top cap and found the upper gears are good.
Next I drained it and found some fine shavings on the magnet, but it was also aluminum colored.
I removed the prop and noticed the rear seals had been displaced rearwards, (the hub was fine, but the prop washer was into the rear seal).
I dropped the lower case and the shaft and spline were fine, BUT...I turned the shift shaft, and when ingaged, it locked up.
Hmmmm...I could buy one of the after-market lowers, or rebuild this one.
What do y'all think?
Woodsy
11-07-2005, 10:15 AM
George...
I would buy one of the after market complete drives, then rebuild this one as time and money allow... that way you will have a spare!
Woodsy
DonziDave
11-07-2005, 10:39 AM
When you turn the shift-shaft, it is supposed to engage the gear set. Depending on which way you turned the shift-shaft, the forward or reverse gears are engaged. Because of the on-shaft impeller, this makes turning the shaft very difficult and may be leading you to think it is locked up. The prop shaft should turn freely in one direction and not turn (without a lot of muscle and a lever on the drive shaft) in the other, depending on forward or reverse engagement.
Rootsy
11-07-2005, 10:43 AM
When you turn the shift-shaft, it is supposed to engage the gear set. Depending on which way you turned the shift-shaft, the forward or reverse gears are engaged. Because of the on-shaft impeller, this makes turning the shaft very difficult and may be leading you to think it is locked up. The prop shaft should turn freely in one direction and not turn (without a lot of muscle and a lever on the drive shaft) in the other, depending on forward or reverse engagement.
but as cuda so politely told me... he has a crank driven pump, therefore no impeller in the housing... sooooo things get a lot easier to turn... :boggled:
gcarter
11-07-2005, 11:58 AM
Yep Rootsy, I have a housing but no impellor. and the shaft turns VERY freely, normally!
So, I think I'll take Woodsy's advice and purchase a new after-market drive.
I've always wanted to tear one of these apart anyway. Here's my chance.
gcarter
11-07-2005, 09:46 PM
Thanks Woodsy.
I took your advice and ordered the new drive...about $1320.00 delivered w/tax. It will be shipped in two pieces on Wednesday via UPS.
It SHOULD get to my office on Thursday. I'll still have to remove the pump, add the drive shower, and repaint it to match the gimbal assembly.
:wavey: :yippie:
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