The value of the old donzis.

[Moody Blu']

I was wondering today Is it worth it to hold on to the old donzis for the value? Im talking all donzis with left hand steering, before they switched. Do they actually go up in value? I have aftermarket gauges, a different motor then what came with the boat and a new interior. everything else asthetically is pretty much original. Original gel coat, lift rings vents, Outdrive, lights, steering wheel, throttle, grab rails, oh **** handle, and gas tank cap.

If I finally got my new gas tank, fixed the back starboard side of my deck(small crack) while changing the tank, rechrome all the original brass and metal pieces on the boat. Then finally buffed out the original gel coat. Would the boat actually call for a price higher then most of us bought these old donzis for? would they come close to the newer classics?

I know ive put more money into my boat then i think i would ever get back and im not thinkin about selling Im just really curious. Or is it just the nostalgic factor of having a old donzi with alot of history? its price less to me but im just curious what everyone thinks

[Chili 18]

I suppose after any discussion, it still comes down to what someone is willing to pay. I bought mine thinking i'd spiff it up and sell it in a year or two. Now after sinking {i still havent had the nerve to add it all up} into it. Its clear the only way to get that back out is like you say , by the pleasure it brings. I think they hold value better than average boats.

[Lenny]

Moody, I don't think so... IMO.

If I was to upgrade and "pristine" mine, power/leg/guages and amenities I would have to throw another $20K at it. That being said, I could sell it for about $10K US. No brainer, if you LOVE it, and want to keep it, or if you are rich, then go for it. If it is an investment, you need a new financial planner.
:(

I was thinking about dropping $14K into mine for a new 6.2 Horizon and Bravo (cheaper here), reglass the transom, strip the deck, redo that etc etc etc. When all is said and done I could sell it for $10-$12K. :(

Or, I could sell it now for $6-8K here (US) take that $14K, have low $20's to play with and get into a 3-4 year old 18, tilt and trim, original, and all the amenities.

I don't see the investment. These are not 70 year old Chris Crafts, they are glass.

Have FUN with 'em, be proud of the heritage, and enjoy it. :yes:

[mphatc]

I think this holds true for the Classic 18, but is different for a GOOD X-18 certainly different for a Corsican . . .

But it all comes down to condition. Originality is not so important, usability with reliability is as long as some amount of "in the spirit of originality " is maintained.

just like Muscle Cars on Ebay or Barrett Jackson, add contemporary ammenties while retaining the spirit of the period will bring bigger money.

To that end, new gauges, upholstery, electronic ignition, new wiring with circuit breakers and good cosmetics will enhance the value. Getting that value will depend on how good you market it! Certainly a choice old Donzi won't bring crazy money here, but who has ever tried some of the exclusive magazines with a display ad for a custom Donzi?

Mario

[FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack]

I brought my '67 Barrelback to Lake Champlain where my cousin had rented a house. He said the boat looked like it was straight out of a Connery era Bond film. He said I should be driving it in a tux while sipping a martini. I said I was thinking more along the lines of a crew-cut and a pair of Ray Bans with a short sleeve print shirt and white shorts.
We began discussing Bond films and astronauts and G.I. Joes.

You don't get reactions like this with a Bayliner.

This is what people are buying with a vintage boat/car/anything. I think the worse things get in the present, the better the past looks to us. This is why the value of these boats will take off, if not now, then soon.

Eric "stuck in the '60s" Tolnes

[mattyboy]

I'll give you my thoughts when the 58k 16 sells in TX ;)

[Moody Blu']

I'll give you my thoughts when the 58k 16 sells in TX ;)

link?
or joke?

[Lenny]

A link, not a joke, but it should be...

Been for sale for 1 1/2 years now. :rolleyes:

http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/6/8/67565368.htm

[Cuda]

I think Lenny hit the nail on the head. You never even get out dollar for dollar what you put in a boat, much less make anything from it. From what I've read, you love your boat, so upgrade and add what YOU would want on it, and not worry about the value. If you want to put the money in as an investment, I've got some great deals down here for Florida swampland, and I might even throw in a bridge or two.

[gcarter]

I used to watch the old wood boat market, I'm talking about the kind of wood boat that Diggers brother is into. You know, where they built ones and twos and famous people owned them. Well, a few years ago when I last looked at it, the very top of that market was at about $300K.
Another example of a very collectible boat is the yahct tenders that Riva builds in Italy. In 1990, a new Riva was $350K and delivery was 3-5 years out.
Yet today you can buy them used for well under $100K.
Statistics like this don't bode well for the collectable used boat market.
I don't think you can expect to market an old restored Donzi for any more than the normal market ( you know, $5k-$12K) plus the materials you used to fix it but no labor.
It's sad, but boats just aren't all that usable, and the number of people that collect them is too small.

[TOPSY II]

I'm with George on this topic...just enjoy em!!! As one of the registry members said a while back ( sorry I don't recall who said it) "I can't afford to sell it, it's TOO EXPENSIVE!"

I don't know about all of you, but from what I've read here over the last year or so, most of us enjoy messing with these things almost as much as driving them.

TOPSY II
:beer:

1986 Minx #59

'80 Speed Skiff JS-74

[Islander]

With very rare exceptions, getting your original investment back is highly unlikely. However, you'll get more money back from a Donzi than from a Bayliner.

[Rootsy]

I was wondering today Is it worth it to hold on to the old donzis for the value? Im talking all donzis with left hand steering, before they switched.

so what is an original starboard helm 66 18 worth then????

honestly, they are a depreciating investment... you'll throw more money at it than you will ever recoup unless you do work on a "pearson" level... then you might come close to covering material costs... but you'll never get your time back in cash...

i've been going through this dilema with my 16... everyone who's interested wants me to give it away... but to pay 10 - 12K for a late 90's 16 in good shape and then do waht i've done powertrainwise... you couldn't even buy the parts to put it together for what i'm asking...

gonna come down to someone who is looking for exactly what you have and who understands what it is and how much it'd cost to do it themselves... so far i havn't come across that person...

[mattyboy]

link?
or joke?
Joke??? I don't know??? perhaps if you would stop disappearing from the site for months at a time we wouldn't have to re hash these old subjects over and over
do search this was a hot discussion on this boat


http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/6/8/67565368.htm

[Rootsy]

you figure for 58K they could have at least bought the correct shifter knob for it :rolleyes:

[mattyboy]

yeah that and the plastic helm???

[Mr X]

I think this holds true for the Classic 18, but is different for a GOOD X-18 certainly different for a Corsican . . .

But it all comes down to condition. Originality is not so important, usability with reliability is as long as some amount of "in the spirit of originality " is maintained.

just like Muscle Cars on Ebay or Barrett Jackson, add contemporary ammenties while retaining the spirit of the period will bring bigger money.

To that end, new gauges, upholstery, electronic ignition, new wiring with circuit breakers and good cosmetics will enhance the value. Getting that value will depend on how good you market it! Certainly a choice old Donzi won't bring crazy money here, but who has ever tried some of the exclusive magazines with a display ad for a custom Donzi?

Mario



I agree 100% :biggrin:

[joseph m. hahnl]

WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now slow down. As donzi owners we set the price of our boats.
and as we all know" I just got to have one." And so it shall be written.
back in 1987 i could have bought a 1969 corvette hard top convertible 454 Munsi posi rear end for $5000. Yes $5000. all it needed was paint and a new rag.That car today is worth up to 6 times that amount.

What does that have to do with a donzi?
absolutly nothing. Donzi's are a dime a dozen"NOT"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I bought my minx as an investment. As in it would never loose value. It might not appreiciate in value but it certainly will never depreciate.

For those who spent countless dollars on there motors. For $12,000 you can buy the hull for another $8000. I'll throw in the motor:shocking: :shocking: :shocking:


I consider a Donzi in the same class as a Harley or a Corvette if you want one you got to pay for it.$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


joe

[gcarter]

These boats have a market value of $5K to maybe $12K. There have been a few priced higher than that, Like Buizillas 300 hour LE, but even he probably hadover $20K in it and he only got somewhat more than my high number.
Probably very few owners have done as much restoration on their Donzi as I have on Minx #56. I don't think there is a single square inch of the boat I haven't restored or improved. For instance, the stock cockpit supprt was directly on the stringers which eventually caused a lot of damage. Any owner of an '80's boat will tell you this. I built a support system for the cockpit which puts the cockpit weight on a series of 2" X 2" X 1/4" angles and the cockpit floor is through bolted to these angles and has a rubber shock/insulater sandwiched in between. This arrangement completely eliminates the crappy fiberglass tabs Donzi used to locate the cockpit floor. The floor never touches the stringers. Also the rear seat is supported to these angles. It's probably the strongest cockpit/stringer arrangement ever devised in one of these boats.
My point is, I have about $18K in the boat (I didn't pay much for it initially) and as good as it is, I'd be surprised to sell it for that.

[Cuda]

The thing is, there are a whole lot more Corvette collectors out there, than there are Donzi collectors. It's all supply and demand.

[EricG]

We've talked about this subject before, but I just don't see that you can put a collectible value on these boats.

With classics, I don't think you can use the Corvette analogy, as you can't buy a '69 corvette new today, but you can buy a classic, that is essentially identical to the vintage ones. You might have a better case with the rarer models that haven't been in production for a long time, but if you see what the market has done in the past few years, it doesn't seem like that is the case. I think the perfect example of how you can't really put a collectible value on these boats was the Twin Volvo GT 21 that was sold last year. He had it on the market a few years ago needing a restoration for 10k, then he decided to restore it (Paint, motor work, etc), and then sell it that way. It sat on the market for 18k for a LONG time. Here is a "restored as original" very rare model from the golden era of Donzi, and one that seems to be possibly 1 of a kind (although we did just discover the GT with Twin v-drives), and he had a lot of trouble selling it for the price of a late model 16 or 18, or even a new bayliner.

Also, around here nice Mid 70's Ski Natiques go for somewhere between 6-10k, or, the exact same price Lenny and I paid for our '76 18's. In fact, I'm pretty certain we paid pretty close to the same price for our boats. His is a much rarer X, and should therefore be worth much more than my plain old 18...but I just don't think the market demonstrates that.

Because we are obsessed with these boats, we can't separate ourselves from them to see that to the rest of the world, they are very cool speedboats that have very little functionality, and therefore, a very limited market. I'm not bashing our boats....I love them all. But as others have said, I think you'd do a lot better investing somewhere else.

EG

[Cuda]

Very well put Eric. The market value of a Donzi has nothing to do with it's value to YOU. It's kind of like my house. Just last week I had it appraised, it's appreciated 30% in one year, but I still wouldn't sell it for four times that amount. It's worth that much to me.

[Cuda]

With classics, I don't think you can use the Corvette analogy, as you can't buy a '69 corvette new today, but you can buy a classic, that is essentially identical to the vintage ones.

EG
Eric, you hit one of the reasons when I bought a Donzi, I was looking for a Minx. I like somewhat oddball things. You can't go out and buy a new Minx at any price.

It's like that with my Formula too. I don't have to worry about someone pulling up beside me with one just like it.

[Lenny]

Eric, Nautique has a "U" in it... ;)

And then there is MXRoadsters HornetIII. Absolutely stunning and original, all-but for a few engine fixes. Fresh water all its un-used life. I know what he paid for it as I was second in line on that one as well. Woodgrove was the area in Washington I believe. And now, what it would sell for. I agree, Eric, they don't go for a lot unless new.

..Ted, I know all about your "X-18" as I was second in line when you bought it. Chatted with the owner for a while. You had the advantage of being close. (that is, less than 3000 miles away ;) ) .... You did well on that one. :) I still have the ad and the faxed/available documentation on that sale.

What I do NOT get, is the new price between States. Some have 22' '05's and '06's in the mid/high 40's, 496 MAG/HO's, some are at high 60's. Where do those numbers come from?

There seems to be almost a 15-20K spread in new-ish/new 22's.

[EricG]

Eric, Nautique has a "U" in it... ;)

And that's why we have a Master Craft :biggrin: :biggrin:

Cuda....I've always loved your formula ...please don't ever paint it! :smash:

[Cuda]

Cuda....I've always loved your formula ...please don't ever paint it! :smash:
That will never happen. :bonk:

[Magicallbill]

When we bought Jason's '99 18,there was a Chapparall or something on the showroom floor next to it. My friend who was with us said
"Why don't you get that boat;It has more room,a ladder,and more seats?"
He is an example of the majority of people who would buy for practicality,functionality,etc.
Jason and I were so entranced with the 18 that we never even looked beyond it to see the Chapparall,but we're in the minority.
Isn't that why the Donzis's aren't worth more:Because they are so one-dimensional,and appeal to such a narrow market?
I would also think that that's why they're so hard to sell..There are very few people interested in that sort of boat.

[Islander]

Isn't that why the Donzis's aren't worth more:Because they are so one-dimensional,and appeal to such a narrow market?
I would also think that that's why they're so hard to sell..There are very few people interested in that sort of boat.

You would be lucky to get ten cents on the dollar on a ten year old Chapparal.

[Rich]

I don't think there is a steadfast rule on boats when it comes to value. I wouldn't even consider buying an older Donzi that wasn't original, other people wouldn't want it unless it had been mechanically upgraded. If you were buying a wooden Chris Craft, Garwood, Hacker, etc., its value is very dependent on originality. If I was buying an older 31' Bertram, for example, I would definetely want it fully upgraded. Donzi's unfortunately fall somewhere in the middle. While the general public may look at an older Donzi and say WoW, what a beautiful boat, they are generally not willing to pay the big bucks for it. But people do pay big bucks for the restored to original Chris Craft or the upgraded Bertram.
When I recently took my 1969 Donzi 7 Meter out for the first time, I stopped at the gas station first. Two people pulled up in their cars to complement the beauty of the boat. At the launch ramp, it was more of the same. And that was for a plain Jane 7 Meter. So the value of my boat was really not the issue. People recognize beauty when they see it. And that's what older Donzi's are all about.

[olredalert]

------One of the main reasons I have two old DONZIs is that they are from an era I love to try and relive. With that said, all we ever wanted to do back then was make em go faster. I wont change any visual stuff on my Corsican, but, obviously, a Scorpion engine is in the realm of "going faster". I like to think that collectability will rise over the years for the rarer models. I know what I would pay for a good Criterion now and its a bunch more than you guys are talking about.
------Now the El Pescador is a bit different as it needed far more work to bring back to a sembalence of what I would have ordered in 1975 new, which is what I was shooting for. My rational for the resto was looking at the price of 24 to 30 foot egg-beater center consoles new. A good, quality one cant be bought new for less than $100,000 and they are more often much more. This fact made a $60,000ish total cost seem somehow OK!!! That and the sound of the slightly muffled twin 350s. Will I get my money back??? Only time will tell........Probably not, and Im certainly not counting on it. I am, however counting on having a relaxing afternoon on one of them today as the weather here in MI. is gorgeous...........Bill S

[Ted Guldemond]

Bought my first boat in 1971, a Chris-Craft 19 ft Racing Runabout fo $500. Sold it in 77 for $1800. Thought I did ok. The same boat in same condition now brings $29-39 K. 1963 Vette $1200 in 74-sold 1984 like new $6k. Now ? $30K. 1930 Ventnor hydroplane 1981 $75-sold 1992 $10k. Now anybodies guess. My point is, if in good shape, close to original condition, with time and nostalga they will go up. Its all a matter of desirablity, ie : demand and supply. Old wooden boats were worthless before antique shows and judging. Also media exposure never hurts. Look what happened to 22ft Chris-Craft Sportman after On Golden Pond. If you want to enhance value , put on some judged boat shows with exposure to the public and stop making new ones.

[Skeleton Crew]

Its all a matter of desirablity, ie : demand and supply. Old wooden boats were worthless before antique shows and judging. Also media exposure never hurts.

Demand is enhanced by changing the 'appearance' of the value of owning something. Watch a Barrett-Jackson auction, and the mere fact that it is ON television in front of you increases the perceived value of the Corvette or Hemi 'Cuda based on seeing one sell for excessive amounts of cash. All it would take to increase the value of early Donzi's is prominent placement of one in a 'hero' style movie, where Batman or James Bond uses one.

[Cuda]

Demand is enhanced by changing the 'appearance' of the value of owning something. Watch a Barrett-Jackson auction, and the mere fact that it is ON television in front of you increases the perceived value of the Corvette or Hemi 'Cuda based on seeing one sell for excessive amounts of cash. All it would take to increase the value of early Donzi's is prominent placement of one in a 'hero' style movie, where Batman or James Bond uses one.
Damn! I wished they had used a Minx in the Miami Vice movie. :embarasse :hyper:

[joseph m. hahnl]

Demand is enhanced by changing the 'appearance' of the value of owning something. Watch a Barrett-Jackson auction, and the mere fact that it is ON television in front of you increases the perceived value of the Corvette or Hemi 'Cuda based on seeing one sell for excessive amounts of cash. All it would take to increase the value of early Donzi's is prominent placement of one in a 'hero' style movie, where Batman or James Bond uses one.


They used donzi's in the motion picture Charlies Angles. Not James Bond < but 3 hot chicks will get my motor revin:bonk:

Kid Rock sings about skippin across the waves in his 40 ft donzi.

as far as G carters 5k to 12k. When i was looking for a minx they were $14,500 to $19,500 wether they sold for thier asking price i don't know.

Alls i can say time will tell .

joe

[Lenny]

There is also a pic here of Ted with Luci Lu, Cameron Diaz and someone else in a ZX of some sort... :D

He got to "drive" ;)

[gcarter]

as far as G carters 5k to 12k. When i was looking for a minx they were $14,500 to $19,500 wether they sold for thier asking price i don't know.


joe
I payed $4K for mine. There have been at least two here in Florida that sold for less than $6K. Another in the Tampa/St Pete area that didn't sell for $10K.
Another in Orlando that didn't sell for $10K (maybe went for $8K). One in NJ went for $10K. Another, was supercharged, went for $12K (I think). Only one I know of that went for more than $12K.

[Formula Jr]

I'm glad in a sense that these boats have not been discovered or "fashionized." That the set of people you meet ARE into these boats, and not the bling bling. Or making them a new Bling Bling. I think in 10 years that may happen. Or it may not happen. Let us dread for a second the alternative. That Donzies Pre-..... you make the call on that one.. - were made hot. Made very hot. Split window 63 vette kinda hot. Now, everyone you meet will not run their boat out. Cause its now an investment.

Would you like that?

[FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack]

Maybe it's just that we're the only people who really know what's cool! LOL We're a pretty exclusive club, not because we're not inclusive, but because most people just haven't caught on yet. It's probably better that way. The price of admission stays reasonable and nobody can accuse us of being snobs (except me, I'm an admitted barrelback snob. On top of that I'm also a V-drive snob and a triple hatch snob! If I ever find a triple hatch V-drive I might need some oxygen and a divorce lawyer! LOL).

Eric

[fastcat]

....... On top of that I'm also a V-drive snob and a triple hatch snob! If I ever find a triple hatch V-drive I might need some oxygen and a divorce lawyer! LOL).

Eric

When we were looking to buy our first Donzi, we considered 16s from the late '90s and 18s from early '90s. Our taste run to the classics in cars so we followed suit and ended up with an 18 Barrel Back, V-Drive, circa 1968 (we think).
Sorry Eric, no triple hatch. Maybe it's not as easy to own as a modern drive boat, but the v-drive / rudder combo is certainly more interesting and presents it's own set of challenges!
We're having a custom trailer built this week and will be taking it to Sarasota this weekend. Hope to see you there.

[FlatRacer, aka BarrelBack]

When we were looking to buy our first Donzi, we considered 16s from the late '90s and 18s from early '90s. Our taste run to the classics in cars so we followed suit and ended up with an 18 Barrel Back, V-Drive, circa 1968 (we think).
Sorry Eric, no triple hatch. Maybe it's not as easy to own as a modern drive boat, but the v-drive / rudder combo is certainly more interesting and presents it's own set of challenges!
We're having a custom trailer built this week and will be taking it to Sarasota this weekend. Hope to see you there.

Hi Fastcat, and welcome to the fraternity. You really must e-mail me with the specs on your boat so I can include it in the Barrelback database I'm compiling. Have a blast in Sarasota and take plenty of pics!

Eric

[donzi182003]

I think that the limited market theory is correct. I love my boat and I will surely buy another one in time because I am a true Donzi fan. However I realize that is is not a "practical boat". It is a one purpose boat. My father for example thinks it is an absolutely beautiful boat but he would never own one. He just says he prefers the comfort of his Contender open fisherman with freshwater shower, cabin, enclosures, and obviously much smoother ride. Also our boats are not cheap. It is not easy to drop between 35 and 50k for a new small one purpose boat. I would, but again I am a true Donzi fan.