How big is too big

[hyperlite98]

I run my Classic 16 & 18 in southern Georgian Bay, folks who are familiar with that body of water know how big the waves can get. (12ft. yesterday) now I've been out in some pretty hairy stuff in my 16 and I recently just purchased an 18, Does anyone have experience in handling big waves? lets say 6 footers... what have you seen is the best way to navigate this kind of stuff? Is it better to skip across the top, or keep just below plane? any chance of flipping the boat, rolling? what have you seen? The weather is always unpredictable this time of year and I'm getting pretty brave... I'd like to see just what this sucker can do... prefferably without injury.

cheers,
jt

[donzi182003]

Skip across 6 footers?? In a 38' Top Gun maybe but in our little 18's you would surely kill yourself. I would say that the only way to run in 6' rollers is parralel riding the waves at 20-25 mph. Any more than that is either suicide or destruction of the boat. Just my $.02

[MOP]

Even in a 22 anything over 4' it is time for Morgan & Coke and a the lawn chair, many afternoons I not by choice have to get on top of 4's in mine I need to run at 40 and better it is not fun ride. Thats when my sweetie complains about needing a "Sports Bra" ! After having a 16 I jumped right to a 22 and have some seat time in 18's, no question the 18 fairs better than the 16 but both will beat you to death and give you a bath in the same conditions.

Phil

[Marlin275]

I had my X-18 out in 6-8 ft waves off Montauk just to test how rough is too rough.
When I was heading out everyone was lookin at me like I was crazy.
I didn't see any other boats out there. Going into the waves and wind was wild and
I had her just on plane @2300 RPMs. I had my hands full. When I rounded the buoy and
headed down wind and waves it was DAMN FUN, and NO problem and I went faster on the throttle.
I didn't try across the waves much but nothing is as bad as straight on into the mess.
On top of the world and waves! The 1969 Bahamas 500 race must have been in conditions like that?

[hyperlite98]

no argument there about the bath... maybe 6' is out of reach, I have a 10 mile run out to the cottage and the other weekend was blowing up 3-4 footers across the bay and I was hittin those at about 35-40mph (for a short duration), no doubt its a bumpy ride but I felt that the boat was going to be able to take more than i could. These boats are famous in my area for being able to tackle some of the rougher water.

[hyperlite98]

I had my X-18 out in 6-8 ft waves off Montauk just to test how rough is too rough.
When I was heading out everyone was lookin at me like I was crazy.
I didn't see any other boats out there. Going into the waves and wind was wild and
I had her just on plane @2300 RPMs. I had my hands full. When I rounded the buoy and
headed down wind and waves it was DAMN FUN, and NO problem and I went faster on the throttle.
I didn't try across the waves much but nothing is as bad as straight on into the mess.
On top of the world and waves! The 1969 Bahamas 500 race must have been in conditions like that?

I have had the water spill over the top deck in my 16 bouncing around downwind... and in my opinion, this is what owning a Donzi is all about.

[mattyboy]

wise men have told me


1. never approach the dock faster then you plan on hitting it

2. get to the restuarant just before the wind and water kicks up have dinner
then leave when the water and wind calm down

3. boating is supposed to be fun and you can pick and choose you're days to boat pounding the boat and yourself serves what purpose???

I would say at the dustoff on Sat the wind kicked up out of the north and the lake had 3-4 footers sorta all one way but with some confused crosswakes it was way ruff i could even get on plane in the 16 and having all the picnic stuff didn't help
even guys in 22's took a beating

if your going out in 12 footers remember 3 things
1. life insurance
2. a pfd
3. and a float plan so they know where to search

anyone going out in 5-6 footers in a 16 or 18 deserves what they get

[cigarette30]

I don't want to be anyone's enemy here, I think the Board and this group are the best people in boating, but this is a topic we have discussed before, and I have a strong opinion. A true 6' - 8' footer is entirely to much for a 18' or 22' Classic, no way around it. These boats were built and designed as the "gentleman's" boat for the intercoastal and inland, per John Chishom and Roy Farmer 30 years ago, reiterating the intent of the great Don Arronow, NOT OFFSHORE!

You run these boats at anything over "planning speed" in those conditions, you will hurt someone, break a seat pedestal, loosen pump mounts, or break the hull to deck joints. I have seen this is less conditions.

The reality is my 30' is not large enough either, and it's @ 8,000 pounds & 1/3 larger. A 38' gun, is still very hard on your back, wet at times, and still hard on the boat. Come on guys, These are great boats, but not's exaggerate their purpose or intent.

MOP, your the honest one, 1 to 2's are fun, 3-4's I am sharing your drink, but add lime juice.

[cigarette30]

[QUOTE=mattyboy]wise men have told me


Your judged by the company you keep, as well as those wise men you follow.

Very good words Mattyboy!

[hyperlite98]

Don't get me wrong here, I am not talking ocean swells. When it picks up on the bay your looking at a couple large waves in amongst smaller ones. I would really like to know what the limits of a classic 18 are, I certainly dont want to break the boat or myself. I attached a picture of heading downwind in a .5 - 1 foot situation at speed. This is in a 16.

[Skeleton Crew]

no argument there about the bath... maybe 6' is out of reach, I have a 10 mile run out to the cottage and the other weekend was blowing up 3-4 footers across the bay and I was hittin those at about 35-40mph (for a short duration), no doubt its a bumpy ride but I felt that the boat was going to be able to take more than i could. These boats are famous in my area for being able to tackle some of the rougher water.

I, too, have a water access cottage, but with only a 3 mile run on one of the Muskoka Lakes. In an 18, the 3-4 foot stuff is not that difficult...until you add on icy May or November spray...definitely nasty then. On runs out of Parry Sound (Georgian Bay) there are days when staying on the dock is the best choice. Sometimes difficult choices exist when it is a rough Sunday night and you have to be at work in the morning, but there are limits...high limits perhaps or personal limits, but real limits.

I've had the 18 in 6' waves. Not a wonderful fun time. Downright scary. Will not repeat, given any option at all.

[McGary911]

A true 6' - 8' footer is en.......

I've seen it time and time again.....1 man's 6 footer, is often another man's 3 footer......

I run into 4+ in the ocean in the Crit, I probably stay in the river\bay for the day......

[Lenny]

Deneen and I ran INTO breakers super-imposed on swells that were the hulls wetted waterline distance between themselves. :eek: REALLY. It was not pretty. The 30 knot wind didn't help either and EVERY time (at about 30 mph) we hit one the boat would lift and be turned (about 60 degrees to port or starboard) due to the wind. We managed to stayed dry mind you but had to continue running INTO them (another few miles) until we could find some lee shelter, enough of it, (behind an Island) in order to even turn the boat around as it would have rolled taking those waves at beam.

An eye opener for sure. Running with them (surfing) was a blast 'cuz you could play "throttleman" and hop and time/throttle the tops so that the next jump was not a "stuff". Great fun running with them, into them was not :(

Something about the 6" of freeboard in this stuff bothers me and at that time there was no bilge pump working :eek:

I am much wiser now.

It was not a good idea, but we were suddenly committed when we entered an area that was not protected by Islands and the Pacific had its' way with us.

Don't have any plans on repeating that anytime soon. I say 2's and 3's (which measures 4-6 crest to trough) to be remotely safe.

"disclaimer" I have NEVER boated in Lakes to any degree and most all of my time has been in the Ocean. That is relatively easy to handle IMO as it is timed and has rythm other than the 7th and rogues.

I have NO seat time in the washing machine (Lakes) that many of you boat in. To me that would be like being at the back of the pack in a Poker Run and trying to go forward. Been there, done that, didn't like it a whole lot. :(

[blackhawk]

I run my Classic 16 & 18 in southern Georgian Bay, folks who are familiar with that body of water know how big the waves can get. (12ft. yesterday) now I've been out in some pretty hairy stuff in my 16 and I recently just purchased an 18, Does anyone have experience in handling big waves? lets say 6 footers... what have you seen is the best way to navigate this kind of stuff? Is it better to skip across the top, or keep just below plane? any chance of flipping the boat, rolling? what have you seen? The weather is always unpredictable this time of year and I'm getting pretty brave... I'd like to see just what this sucker can do... prefferably without injury.

cheers,
jt

I think it depends on the "type" of waves. I've been on Lake Michigan in a friend's 19' boat in TRUE 3-4' rollers(he says 4-5', maybe they were) and we were running hard. But they had a lot of spacing between them. It was a few years ago but I remember we would get ALOT of air, land, hit the gas, hit the next one and in the air we'd go again. Running about 50-55mph. I honestly don't remember if we were actually jumping over a roller in the air or not but I know most of the time we were landing flat and accelerating into the next roller. At first I was a little freaked out but after a few minutes I was having a blast. To this day the best ride I have ever been on. I would tell you about the same guy in the same boat in the Gulf of Mexico but no one would believe me! :D

Now, I was out on Lake Michigan a few weeks ago in my boat and the wind was strong. 2-3' washing machine chop. Whole different story. We ran WFO for about 3 miles and every once in a while we'd hit a rougue big wave and catch some major air. Then they started getting bigger, I'd say 3-4 easy and NO ROLLERS. Too big, there were 4 of us and we all were doing what we could to stay on plane. I've never seen waves that big with sharp points. I kept waiting for them to turn into rollers but they never did.

In 6' rollers with nice spacing I'd say your 18 could handle it and maybe even be fun. Without spacing or in chop it will be a long, rough ride IMO.

[Marlin275]

These boats were built and designed as the "gentleman's" boat for the intercoastal and inland, per John Chishom and Roy Farmer 30 years ago, reiterating the intent of the great Don Arronow, NOT OFFSHORE!


You mean this man was gentle?

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15103

[blackhawk]

I don't want to be anyone's enemy here, I think the Board and this group are the best people in boating, but this is a topic we have discussed before, and I have a strong opinion. A true 6' - 8' footer is entirely to much for a 18' or 22' Classic, no way around it. These boats were built and designed as the "gentleman's" boat for the intercoastal and inland, per John Chishom and Roy Farmer 30 years ago, reiterating the intent of the great Don Arronow, NOT OFFSHORE!

You run these boats at anything over "planning speed" in those conditions, you will hurt someone, break a seat pedestal, loosen pump mounts, or break the hull to deck joints. I have seen this is less conditions.

The reality is my 30' is not large enough either, and it's @ 8,000 pounds & 1/3 larger. A 38' gun, is still very hard on your back, wet at times, and still hard on the boat. Come on guys, These are great boats, but not's exaggerate their purpose or intent.

MOP, your the honest one, 1 to 2's are fun, 3-4's I am sharing your drink, but add lime juice.

Yeah, you're right. Small boats with 24* deadrises and 7' beams aren't made for the rough stuff. Keep em on shore if they're bigger that 2 footers! :D

[mattyboy]

there's a big difference between spaced swells and breaking whitecaps
just so i am calibrated anyone at the picnic this year leaving the island
were they 2-3 , 3-4, 4-5 footers or bigger just so i have a gauge when i'm telling stories
and remember never let the facts get in the way of a good story ;)

[cigarette30]

You mean this man was gentle?

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15103

Famous picture, and proves my point, unless one considers those 20' waves! Imagine a 16' or 18' classic there, just cruising, or running top to top. Yes, a lot of discussion about "slop" and spacing, there are times our inlet, and ocean has near perfect spacing, but the "launch" provided by a 6' wave anywhere, in a boat only 3 times it's height ....... think about it. As I said, more than 2-3's, save your back, and your boat. Kick thier a-- (the big boys) while they are fueling up, paying insurance, and paying ungodly maintenance bills. Thats when the Classics are just that, Classic !

[Sam]

Hyperlite, I have cruised Huron / N.Channel area for years and in all types of weather so I know what your talking about. Having said that it was always with a 33' to 42' boat. Running big seas are always relative to the direction and speed your boat is going. For the most part I've found that most people wouldn't know a 5'-6' wave if it bit them in the butt.

Obviously beam and following seas are somewhat easier to deal with vs hitting them head on. Wave spacing is also a factor, an open ocean six footer is different than a Great Lake six footer. In my opinion running in anything over 2' in a 16 or an 18 Donzi is just not worth it if you have a choice. Anything beyond that is hard on the boat and your body at least mine :smash: . Just my two cents.

[Lenny]

I think you will find Ol' Red has an interesting story about going up a river in Michigan many moons ago in a big block 18 :D at a good clip...

[blackhawk]

there's a big difference between spaced swells and breaking whitecaps
just so i am calibrated anyone at the picnic this year leaving the island
were they 2-3 , 3-4, 4-5 footers or bigger just so i have a gauge when i'm telling stories
and remember never let the facts get in the way of a good story ;)

Yep, big, steep, waching machine whitecaps = OUCH! Big, round, spaced apart rollers = FUN! :D

I'd say in that famous pic of the Cig they got a little "out of shape"! It happens. :D

Look at the pic of the Pantera I posted, that is one sweet pic of a 24' getting perfect air! Here's another. Makes my heart beat faster just looking at the pics! :D

[Lenny]

Now, to get waaayyy off topic, isn't the Pantera 24 a 25' Magnum hull? The one that started it all in the mid 20' boats?

[blackhawk]

Now, to get waaayyy off topic, isn't the Pantera 24 a 25' Magnum hull? The one that started it all in the mid 20' boats?

Not sure about the 24 but the 28 was designed by Mr. Harry Shoell and who also designed the Magnum.

[blackhawk]

And hyperlite98 back to the original question I'd say your 18 will be able to handle 12.5% bigger water than your 16 did! :D

[RickSE]

My theory is that if you learn to drive these boats, 16-22, hard in rough water you can drive just about anything. These boats are such a good learning tool on the skills required to run hard. They won't teach you everything but they sure will teach you a lot.

You have to admit though that these small 24 deg, 7' beam boats are a hell of a lot more capable then the modern flat bottom/pad, wide beam copies and runabouts in rough stuff. I always feel safe in my boat. At least we have the power and bottom to get up on top of this stuff without beating ourselves to death. Yes there are limits. I've yet to find mine on my waterway.

[blackhawk]

RickSE, you edited your post before I could reply! You must have picked up on my HUGE plate of sarcasm! :D

24/7 boats are where it's at in the rough! :yes:

[RickSE]

RickSE, you edited your post before I could reply! You must have picked up on my HUGE plate of sarcasm! :D

24/7 boats are where it's at in the rough! :yes:

Sorry. I hate proofreading.

I was wondering, just didn't seem right coming from an ex-Blackhawk guy.

[blackhawk]

My theory is that if you learn to drive these boats, 16-22, hard in rough water you can drive just about anything. These boats are such a good learning tool on the skills required to run hard. They won't teach you everything but they sure will teach you a lot.

I totally agree! After owning my blackhawk for 5 years and driving the chit out of it in some serious snot every time I was out I feel like I can drive anything. I don't think there are too many boats that can match the "on the edge" feeling the blackhawk gives! :D

[olredalert]

------The only way you will find me in six footers is on a 58 Hatteras. Im too old and already have way too much back damage.
------And as far as stories; I have way too many Im trying hard to forget. Like the time I knocked myself out (briefly) on the deck of my 18 as I cleared the wake of a ferry at dusk. Never even saw it coming. Went to stand up, probably to get ready to jump, and the deck came to meet my forehead. I have absolutely no memory of how I pulled the throttle back or got back on when I hit the water again. Boat sunk in so far at the transom as this was happening that I must have taken on 50 gallons. Apparently, the body was just reacting to the circumstances because the brain sure wasnt!!! Boat was unhurt other than the salt water in the bilge. Thats a DONZI for you...........Bill S

[Ranman]

I don't want to be anyone's enemy here, I think the Board and this group are the best people in boating, but this is a topic we have discussed before, and I have a strong opinion. A true 6' - 8' footer is entirely to much for a 18' or 22' Classic, no way around it. These boats were built and designed as the "gentleman's" boat for the intercoastal and inland, per John Chishom and Roy Farmer 30 years ago, reiterating the intent of the great Don Arronow, NOT OFFSHORE!

You run these boats at anything over "planning speed" in those conditions, you will hurt someone, break a seat pedestal, loosen pump mounts, or break the hull to deck joints. I have seen this is less conditions.

The reality is my 30' is not large enough either, and it's @ 8,000 pounds & 1/3 larger. A 38' gun, is still very hard on your back, wet at times, and still hard on the boat. Come on guys, These are great boats, but not's exaggerate their purpose or intent.

MOP, your the honest one, 1 to 2's are fun, 3-4's I am sharing your drink, but add lime juice.


Cig30,

I agree with you. Earlier this season I got caught out on Lake St. Clair in what I would estimate to be 4' - 6' seas. I can say that there was no way to go across the top of them. I didn't have enough LOA and would have stuffed BIGTIME running in a following sea. I had to quarter the seas and surf up and down each wave barely on plane for 5+ miles. We got back safely, but I will tell you I was scared for several minutes out there.

[mattyboy]

Look at the pic of the Pantera I posted, that is one sweet pic of a 24' getting perfect air! Here's another. Makes my heart beat faster just looking at the pics! :D

well at that point it's just like flying, it's not the height or the fall that gets ya it's the sudden stop ;)


i don't care about a boat that can get perfect air
I would rather have a boat that can land perfectly like a bird with sore feet :yes:

[GEOO]

Matty,
I would call the Lake George fall outting waves, 2-3 footers, tight chop, very steep. I was able to get on top of them and run 60-80mph.(but neither me nor my boat are normal) And I enjoyed it for a few minutes, got a little carried away. As long as I was able to stay on top, I could skip across the tops of the waves, but every once in a while I would slow down for a bigger wave, fall off the tops and go flying. I did hit hard a few times so I stopped looked around to see where I was. I end up by The Sagamore.

:wink: :biggrin.:

This was 3 footers @ 45-50 mph in Sarasota last Fall. Fun for about 10-15 minutes. I've been in 8-10 footers IN THE OCEAN and it was a blast!! BIG rollers not a breaking waves.

[Chili 18]

:wink: :biggrin.:



nnnnnnnnice!!!! ;)

[McGary911]

:wink: :biggrin.:

:eek::eek::eek::eek: Right Click > Save > SayThank You . :wink:

[mattyboy]

Thanks George, Your boat is a horse of a different color( ok so it has many horses :) ) then it wasn't just me it was ruff I couldn't get on plane and the one time I tried I went up and landed on the back of the boat and put the hatch partially under we were perfectly vertical, I was at a disadvantage the tabs didn't work and the volvo has no trim so I limped home
so if they were 2-3 footers I want no part of 4-5 footers
that air shot is just awesome

[Moody Blu']

:eek::eek::eek::eek: Right Click > Save > SayThank You . :wink:


yea ditto on that right click save...
geo i want more action shots !

Rollers are definatle driveable in 6-8 honestly. When your driving in waves like that you have to carve them like a halfpipe on a snowboard, or dunes on a motorcycle or atv. you crest them on a angle and drop in to the next in a curve like motion. You can also carve on top of the crests from wave to wave if its sloppy and the waves connect, definately more difficult.
I have submarined my 18 right into a 6' roller at about 45 and pulled off the throttle before I completely turned into a sub. For the most part the boat just pushes the water out of the way and pops out.its still scary when your on plane.

As far as the limits I would say ROUGH 5 footers are definatly the limit for a 18. I have gone out numerous times in my donzi just Because i knew it was real rough and wanted to have some fun. most of the time they were 3-4 and i would stay out for a hour or so and suck down a whole gas tank. If a friend was willing they could come along they knew what the deal was and wanted to come because it was a insane rush(they also trusted my driving ability). I have been in 5 footers a couple of times as well and while i could run on top BARELY it was not fun and was definately hurting the hull and it was just time to say HEY pack it up, its too rough! running in 5 foot like i have done a few times for less then 30 seconds ROUGH 5' is the limits of the hull, I say this because the prop was popping out of the water way to much. I would say if a arenson was on the back of a 18 it could handle 5' but you better be good. I dont think the prop wouldnt come out of the water as much with a arneson. Granted none of what i have said is for the faint of heart. Thats me though, I take everything to the edge. I'm not crazy though most of you think i am :spongebob , I do have experience. If you dont have experience, these boats can be very dangerous even in glass conditions.

[blackhawk]

This was 3 footers @ 45-50 mph in Sarasota last Fall. Fun for about 10-15 minutes. I've been in 8-10 footers IN THE OCEAN and it was a blast!! BIG rollers not a breaking waves.

Awesome shot! :yes: But, why is it the water always looks smaller in pics or videos? :confused: I've taken pics and videos in some 2-3' chop and when I show them to people that weren't there the water looks smaller so the people watching don't get the "full effect"! :(

[Lenny]

Who's the gal sittin beside Todd, ? That is not Jill is it? (darker hair) and who is that MONSTER on the port side behind the bench? I assume "yours truly" is driving...

:D

[mattyboy]

Poodle you need to bring that boat to the fall picnic, that boat will hold more crap than the 16

[Boatless]

yea ditto on that right click save...
geo i want more action shots !

I dont think the prop wouldnt come out of the water as much with a arneson. Granted none of what i have said is for the faint of heart. Thats me though, I take everything to the edge. I'm not crazy though most of you think i am :spongebob , I do have experience. If you dont have experience, these boats can be very dangerous even in glass conditions.

An I/O will not stand any better of a chance of keeping the propeller in the water than an Arneson.

Think about it, if the boat's bottom is out of the water so is the propeller reguardless of outdrive.

[Ranman]

An I/O will not stand any better of a chance of keeping the propeller in the water than an Arneson.

So what you're saying is the prop location (height and distance) of an Arneson Surface Drive is exactly the same as a Bravo One equipped boat???




Guessing Boatless needs to "think about it"...

[boldts]

Like many of you have stated, I too have enjoyed an 18' Classic in some big rollers on Lake Erie. I hadn't had the boat very long, but bought a new prop up in Cleveland that I got out of bed at 4am to tow up there and pick up as the shop opened. We had major storms come through Central Ohio the night before and even had some showers on the way up. There was no way I was not going to test that prop! I later learned why I was receiving odd looks as I launched my Donzi. My 18 being a 1969 model was I believe much lighter than 18s being produced today. There was none of that flotation material in it and it had a 302 Ford with a 250 Volvo (No Trim) No tabs either. Top end being about 45 or so.

Now these rollers were big! Lets face it, I'm in an 18 with very little freeboard to start with. A 3' swell might look like a 10' swell. All I know is when I was in the trough, all I could see was a wall of water coming towards me! Going out was like stated by others, no bargain. In fact I stuffed the boat a couple times and getting a chest/lap full of water coming at you very hard and fast. Look at the offshore racers who have been killed when they stuff their boats. Water is like a brick wall when it hits you. I'm a 5'6" 150 pound person. It didn't take but a couple of those to convince me to turn the Classic around. Then, my biggest fear was getting caught sideways in between swells! :eek: I came off the top of one swell and the minute I hit the water again, hit the throttle, turn a quick 90 and let off the throttle on the back of the swell I had just come off the top of. It was very slow, but I was heading back inland. The next problem encountered was because of the size of the swell, I had no idea where I was actually going. Cleveland has a break wall that runs about 200 yards off the city shoreline. Along with other worries, was the fact that the roller I was riding might eventually hit that wall and miss the inlet to behind that wall. I had watched many offshore boat races live and felt I needed to get a look at where this swell was taking me. I excelerated to the top of the swell and stayed in the throttle until just as the transome left the top of the wave. You have to be sure not to trip the boat by cutting the throttle to soon. Being light, the boat flew straight and landed actually very soft on the back of the next swell. I was in fact heading for the wall instead of the inlet. So, I angled toward the inlet as I went up again the back of the next swell. Again launching off that swell in the same manor as done before and again adjusting my course as needed.

As I entered the inlet, an offshore team in a upper 20s foot boat was heading out onto the lake. As I watched them take on the swells I had just been out in and seeing the reaction of their boat, all I could think about was how lucky I was to still be here and standing on the dock. It was quite the learning day for me. First, stay behind the break wall when the lake is kicked up like that. Second, there is nothing like learning to work the throttles in water like that! The throttlemen of offshore racing boats are like surgeons. It takes that kind of skill and precission to pull it off and not hurt yourself or the boat your driving. Third, I truely believe if I had not been in a Donzi 18 and in anyother manufactures 18, things might have not turned out as well as they did. After changing clothes and undershorts, I got back in the Donzi as the sun began to shine and headed to Shooters for a relaxing and adrenalin calming down lunch. I used to work as a patrol boat at the reigonal offshore races on Erie. I highly recomend it to anyone who can do it. Yeah, you sit around all day and have to stay put until every race boat is back to port after the race, but I got an opportunity to ride in a offshore race boat at speed and the throttleman taught me how to use my ears and the throttles to dance a boat across the waves. I'll never forget either one of those days!

Can a 18' Donzi Classic handle very big water? You'll never convince me that they can't. Is it a wise choice to run one in water like that? If given a choice, I'd stay behind the break wall or not boat at all that day. Losing your life in a dangerous condition just doesn't outweigh the chance to boat on another day, but I sure am glad I took the opportunity to experience it once. :smile:

[Barry Phillips]

Running south on the East shore of Lake George this past Saturday at about 60 mph on 2 footers. I was blind sided by a wake, what I assumed was being churned up by a large tour boat running North on the lake along the West shore. I launched off one large roller maybe 3' to 4 footers and landed on a second one than launched again. I landed straight and somewhat easy but got some nice air before I settled back in. With that said I’m sure you guys heard about the Ethan Allen a 40' displacement hulled tour boat, which capsized and sank almost immediately taking the lives of 20 senior citizens on a trip from the Mid-West, dam curious and very sad. The Ethan Allen is a slow moving round bottomed sight seeing boat, that I'm sure has seen a lot of rough water on LG over the years. Yet it flips over on perfect calm fall day. The authorities say that the closest large boat was the Mohegan an older tour boat about 2 miles away. In my experience wakes tend to roll across inland lakes and hard to spot in choppy conditions, even a large cruiser will blind side 22 at high speed. Anyone on this sight who boats on LG keep there eye open for wakes created by the larger tour boats, even at a distance most of us would consider a safe distance and use caution pasting them at speed. I pasted the 93foot twin screw Mohegan this past weekend and even running at slow speeds will she will churn up a wake that can launch my 22 to the moon running at high a speed and trimed.

[hyperlite98]

so let's presume you "encounter" some rough waves either by situation or by choice. Do we want drive and tabs down to let the front of the boat carve through, or do we want tabs/drive up and try to 'skip' across the top. I know someone is going to say that it depends on the size, lets say that the wave situation would be just outside of your current comfort level.

Personally, I've tried both ways and find that the boat reacts a lot more predictably the less its in the water. I find that the rear hull can break a lot of the the crest nicely and level out the travel of the boat in the wave.

Thanks for your input, I come into harsh conditions a lot.

cheers,
Jeff

[Lenny]

Trim up for sure (at least me, ESPECIALLY when in a following sea) I like to know the bow prefers to rise once again and not go scuba diving into the back of the next.

What is fun is sitting on top of a monster, surfing, and by playing with the throttle you can have the set pass under you without ever varying your stance and then you can just run away.

The 550' Ferries here have provided a lot of eductional seat time through the years, especially when you surf the following wave that they have just created while in a 90 deg turn. (Windswept, short period, TALL Breakers)

This is a pic from the Summer, one of the older boats (20 odd years) 475' long and at half throttle ( just getting going as they travel at 22knots) as the dock it just left is about 1000 to the right. This is in front of my folks Summer place. (Deneen took pic) The larger boats are 100' longer and make disgusting waves.

These go by ( the larger ones) every 1/2 hour and then there is a barrage of smaller ones, 20 odd, that go by seemingly forever. 2nd largest (amount of boats) Ferry fleet on Earth.

The second pic is same place, about 30 seconds later. The Island in the background is Knapp Island. It is owned by Bill Gates wifes' sister. It has a full paved race track for Italian Race carts on it, more stuff around back ( ways, sheds, yachts, boats, than you could ever fathom) and the Island has about 7 guest cottages that must 5000 Sq. Ft each and a Dojo for the misses to work out in. Her husband owns two INDY teams hence the race track for friends. Every day in the Summer Months a Helicopter arrives from Seattle, in the am , and an "instructor" provides her with personal training for about 1 1/2 hours and then the pilot flys the instructor back to Seattle. :rolleyes:

...But, they also have a large aluminum landing/freight barge, (suitable for a dump truck/backhoe etc, and they have in the past let me use it to bring over 14-16' cube vans to the Gulf Islands to install kitchens at no charge... :yes:

Paul Allens' boat ( Octopus) was here about 6 weeks ago. 415', numerous tenders, largest at 40+ feet, two helicopters, and a Submarine on the davits out back. Crew of 30+. Unreal.
http://www.powerandmotoryacht.com/february04/octopus2.jpg


Didn't get a chance to play in his waves tho. :(

On a calm day I WILL hunt waves ANYWHERE :D

[joseph m. hahnl]

so let's presume you "encounter" some rough waves either by situation or by choice. Do we want drive and tabs down to let the front of the boat carve through, or do we want tabs/drive up and try to 'skip' across the top. I know someone is going to say that it depends on the size, lets say that the wave situation would be just outside of your current comfort level.

Personally, I've tried both ways and find that the boat reacts a lot more predictably the less its in the water. I find that the rear hull can break a lot of the the crest nicely and level out the travel of the boat in the wave.

Thanks for your input, I come into harsh conditions a lot.

cheers,
Jeff

Well i'm new to the rough water thing in my minx's"plenty of it in my 13' whaler out on the isle of shoals and casco bay. so the biggest waves i/ve seen in Rooster Tail "the Minx" .was the chop Matty was talking about at the LG picnic.
I put the tabs down and knife cut through the waves. i get less pounding the crap out of my self , my boat but especially my girl.Now what Matty doesn't know is that the next days run was just as rough"because he had car trouble he had to bail out early" I was running with Scotts 18 and a 22. and neither of them appeared to be using tabs. both boats were pounding and going 40 mph.
with my tabs down i was comfortably cruising with little or no pounding at 45 mph. If I were alone with out my girl I would have been going faster I find that mine is way more controlible and easier on the boat with tabs down. But it is all about your own comfort level.so to fully answer weather or not to use tabs that is somthing you need to experiment with to find out what is better for you.As for me I use them reguarlly for chop and boat wakes.

joe