Going with closed cooling

[zimm17]

I'm going with a closed system for my boat.

The engine has 15 hours on it since the re-man long block was put in (previous owner).

I'll be running in only salt water for the next several years. I'm in the Navy and my next orders are for Norfolk, VA, so more salt water for me.

I want to run an edelbrock rpm airgap intake too, so the closed system will help that as well. (My new Gaffrig 8x2 flame arrestor hits the engine hatch)

I want a 1/2 system which only cools the block and heads. The exhaust will be raw water. Somebody here blew a manifold after the coolant boiled out of the exhaust. I figure cold sea water is best for the exhaust anyways.

After lots of searching I saw a link from a previous thread about kits from performance product technologies

http://www.perfprotech.com/portal2/...?CategoryID=327 (http://www.perfprotech.com/portal2/store/productslist.aspx?CategoryID=327)

The high HP systems let me remote mount the heat exchanger under the engine along or between the stingers. I don't want an ugly exchanger sitting on top of my engine.

I was thinking about the 700HP system since I'm running 400HP now, with a supercharger upgrade in a couple seasons. Overkill on cooling can't hurt.

Anyone dealt with these systems or have a recommendation for something else? I don't remember who here actually had one of their systems.

[ChromeGorilla]

I have a quick question for you. Are you adding a closed cooling system to a motor than has previously been run in slat water...ever? If so I would not recommend changing to a closed cooling system. No matter how well you have flushed after each salt water use there is still salt in the block. By adding the closed cooling system and recirculating the coolant, the coolant will leach whatever amount of salt that was actually in the block and just keep recirculating it. no place for it to go..... bad juju. I would just continue with the set up as is and maintain a religious flushing schedule after each slat water use. Now if motor only has fresh water time so far, by all means a closed cooling upgrade is sweet. Good luck.

[gcarter]

I'm running a full system (San Juan full system) but with Stainless Marine manifolds and a Meziere electric coolant pump.I purchsed it through ;
http://oceaneastmarine.com/
I love it.
Thay carry several brands, can't beat their prices.

[ChromeGorilla]

Overkill on cooling can't hurt.




Not necessarily true. You don't want the lowest temp possible. You would rather run at a constant 165 or 175 than say 125. So ya really don't want overkill on cooling.....you want something just right.....

[zimm17]

Yes, like I said, 15 hours of salt use so far. I'd like to save what I have and not let it rust anymore. Is chrome gorilla correct? I've never heard about salt leaching into the antifreeze before. Has this been documented? I don't see how recirculating antifreeze/water combo with rust inhibitors (even with some salt in it), etc won't be better than nasty gulf 'o mexico salt water.

Also, I want overkill on the size of the heat exchanger. I think the thermostat would regulate the overall temp of the engine.

[gcarter]

Not necessarily true. You don't want the lowest temp possible. You would rather run at a constant 165 or 175 than say 125. So ya really don't want overkill on cooling.....you want something just right.....
Hi Mr Bibendum;
Like your avatar!

[gcarter]

Yes, like I said, 15 hours of salt use so far. I'd like to save what I have and not let it rust anymore. Is chrome gorilla correct? I've never heard about salt leaching into the antifreeze before. Has this been documented? I don't see how recirculating antifreeze/water combo with rust inhibitors (even with some salt in it), etc won't be better than nasty gulf 'o mexico salt water.
I think if you were to flush with pure water, i.e., R. O. water, distilled water etc, several times on a close schedule, 2-3 days, you would eventually get rid of the salt.
I'm in the water treatment business, and it's the nature of "pure" water to dissolve whatever it comes in contact with.
In fact, I can furnish you with a device to check the "total dissolved solids" of the coolant water, to see if it is indeed removing the salt, i.e., the TDS would eventually be reduced to "normal".

[ChromeGorilla]

Zimm...the leeching thing I have read in a few tech article from different sources also I may have read it in FAQ section on a website for a closed cooling systems.... I can't recall.

George, thats a pretty good idea running DI water and letting it sit in the system for an extended time frame...ie couple few days.... Your right, something like that may work well.

[zimm17]

Good ideas. I could also flush the crap out of the motor with salt-a-way before letting distilled water sit for a while.

The main reason for the thread is to find out if the systems that I mentioned are any good. I want to remote mount the heat exchanger and not have it hanging over the top of the engine. I can hear it now, "Nice bazooka bass tube dude" from the peanut gallery at the sandbar.

[ChromeGorilla]

I would use DI water vice salt away. Salt away was specificly mentioned in the article. No matter how much you use there will still be some salt in the block. The DI water sounds like a great idea. I also like your idea of putting the heat exchanger in a rremote location like off the the side.... should look sweet. You could mount a sea stariner right next to it inline and have both painted or powder coated the same color...... ahh the possibilities for bling are endless!

[MOP]

How much time on it now in salt and has it been flushed well after each use? Was the engine a fresh or salt water engine in its past life? These are the questions you need to think about! A lot of salt time it is not worth it, not much salt time go for it!
My feelings would be if it was fresh water engine the block would be well seasoned and prone to little or no scaling issues. The scaling it can and possibly will be an issue, what happens is some larger flakes will clog some of the tubes which requires pulling the coolers caps and cleaning the tubes (pretty simple but a little messy). That is not the end of the world and the scaling does stop due to the rust inhibitors in the anti freeze, also it will not happed quickly you will see that it is running a little hotter. Don't let anyone tell you that you will be running down the bay and all of a sudden it will over heat from scaling, that is just plain BS. Your idea of running a bigger then necessary cooler is just what I did, it is not the capacity but the thermostat that controls the temperature. I have an old 454 cooler on my 383 soon to be swapped to a new style 4 pass BB cooler. My temp stays locked at 180 except at idle then due to the bypass between the cooler and the manifold it drops to 150.

Phil

[gcarter]

I don't know anything about the reseller you mentioned. They are not the manufacturer I don't believe.
FWIW, any HE can be remotely mounted. I would incourage you to check out the company I mentioned, their prices are much better.
I have never received any comments like the one you mentioned.
Actually, I use the large circ pump inlet hose on the bottom of the HE to drain it. This works better for me than trying to drain the block.
You can see pictures of it here;
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=39073

[tmdog]

I purchased a 1/2 system from Oceaneast Marine. Best thing I did for my 18C. I run a 180 stat and this SBC responds. Temp gauge stays a steady 180 all the time irregardless how much it is ran. Love it. Installed in front of engine between the strigers, nice and low.

[zimm17]

I purchased a 1/2 system from Oceaneast Marine. Best thing I did for my 18C. I run a 180 stat and this SBC responds. Temp gauge stays a steady 180 all the time irregardless how much it is ran. Love it. Installed in front of engine between the strigers, nice and low.

I just ordered the oversized full system from oceaneast marine. Nice guy to talk to. Anyway, $647 plus $50 shipping. It's an oversized system for 500+ c.i. motors and I can remote mount the exchanger between the stringers down low. He says he knows a 750HP blower motor running the system with no problems. Sounds good to me. It ships today, I'll keep the forum informed of the progress and I'll have some pictures too.

Great time for the edelbrock performer rpm air gap intake too!

[Mr X]

Does he have a web site??

[tmdog]

Oceaneastmarine.com

[Mr X]

Oceaneastmarine.com
Thanks TMdog.

[Mr X]

I always wondered what effect it has on MPI engines. It brings up the operating temperature significantly.....is that a good thing or bad?

Are'nt they designed to run at a specific temperature??

[Cuda]

I bought the one for my 20 Formula from OceansEast a few years ago. The guy is very accomodating. There were a couple fitting missing from my kit, and I called him up about them. He asked if I could pick them up and he'd reimburse me. I bought them, but never bothered to send him a receipt since it wasn't much money anyway. A couple weeks later, I still got a check from him to cover the fittings. It wasn't really his fault, they were drop shipped, but he still cared enough to take care of it.

Ted, he does have a website, I'll see if I still have the link.

[MOP]

I always wondered what effect it has on MPI engines. It brings up the operating temperature significantly.....is that a good thing or bad?

Are'nt they designed to run at a specific temperature??

There have been a few posts on engine temp and that heat makes for better effeciancy across the board!

[rayjay]

I always wondered what effect it has on MPI engines. It brings up the operating temperature significantly.....is that a good thing or bad?

Aren't they designed to run at a specific temperature??

They are, But you need to find out what the designed temp for your ECU is, and I can almost guarantee it is hotter than you think. Too cool a temp will (usually) make an FI engine run richer than desired. Old drag racer's trick in street classes was to put a "cool" (160 degF) thermostat in your 5.0 Mustang or Tuned Port Camaro to richen the mixture for more power. Faster, sometimes, but not good for the engine.

A good indication of getting the engine up to a good temp is the oil temperature. Oil needs to get to just over 200 degF to work best. At that temp the condensation in the oil and crankcase will be evaporated, the contaminates from the gas will be burned off, and the oil works better (i.e. gets slipperier). Run an oil temp gauge and work on getting the oil hot enough.

And like MOP says, search for the other posts regarding this subject on this board. There is a lot of good experience there for you to learn from.

rayjay

[Mr X]

Thanks guys, great info!!

Funny, I purchased two oil temp guages last week to install in the dash.

[zimm17]

About time I updated this posting with my closed loop cooling system install complete.

Overall the system is great and works perfectly. It took me a couple of weeks of tinkering in the engine compartment fiddling with hoses and fittings to get it all rigged up perfect.

Make friends with your local hydraulic/hose supply company. I used Goodyear red rubber hose- need about 15' of 1" hose for the exhaust loop, lots of 1 1/4" for the raw water loop to the cooler, 1 3/4" for the lower water pump hose, and 1 1/2" for the upper hose. Measure it all out, then double it. In the end I couldn't get a clean run from the lower water pump inlet past my v-belt tensioner to the exchanger- I found a corrogated chrome plated copper cooling hose from www.coolflex.com that fits great.

The cooling loops is: raw water raw water pump, heat exhanger, power steering cooler, oil cooler, then splits to each exhaust elbow. Ideally, you'd want the oil cooler cooled first, but that wasn't feasable with my install.

Temp holds perfectly at 180 degrees.

Now to winterize the engine, I made a "beer bong" with a spare merc earmuff flushing device, hooked to a barbed fitting to a 1" clear hose to a big funnel. I hook it all up, start pouring in bio-degradable (and dog safe) antifreeze, have a buddy fire up the engine, keep pouring until it comes out the exhaust- takes about 2 gallons. Shut it down, and now the whole raw side is full of antifreeze and you're good to go for the winter! If you want to fog the engine too, take off the raw water pump belt so the antifreeze stays in the engine. Now you can run it for couple of minutes- watch you don't overheat the rubber exhaust hoses.

Here's a picture: http://zimm17.com/id27.html

[Cuda]

Zimm, I can't tell from the picture where you mounted the heat exchanger.

Btw, have I ever mentioned how much I love a stainless framed windsheild? It's the only thing on Debbie's Donzi I wish it had.

Beautiful boat.

[zimm17]

It's mounted on the starboard stringer under the engine. Fits between the stringer and the oil pan- but is long enough to go up to the battery tray at the front of the engine.

When I get home I'll take some detailed photos and write up a tech article on it. Hopefully in time for Christmas.

[zimm17]

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=46396 has a pic of the heat exhanger.

That was the first protype hose routing from the water pump up and over, then down to the exchanger. I've since gone with a short piece of flexable metal "hot rod" radiator hose that tucks from the waterpump down under and directly to the heat exhanger. It was a $100 piece of hose, but works much better.

[joseph m. hahnl]

I added a Orca full cooler on my cast Iron 350 mag. She had been dunked under water and the #4 cylinder filled with sea water. She sat for 5 yrs with all of the water still in the block including the water jackets. I cracked her apart rebuilt it with minial parts. Put new to me heads on and the cooler on it. It has been 2 years and I haven't had any issues at all. The Only thing
with the full cooler is the engine tends to run hot from the exhaust. I used to have to let her cool down from full throttle with a low speed pass.
When I put the Dapars on this went away and for the most part I can Come off plane from full throttle to idle with out an overheat .Provided the coolant level isn't low.


I think a lot of people here "allways the same ones" go to the extreme on everthing. Let's just say they go overboard:wink:






joe

[Cuda]

As much as I think closed cooling isn't worth the trouble, even in 100% salt usage, I must say when we ran last weekend 60 miles in the Minx, the temp stayed right at 150 degrees, at cruise or at idle.

[gcarter]

I'm really grateful for my full system. It's completely trouble free. And with the Meziere electric circulating pump running at a constant speed, I never get a temp spike no mattet how hard I run it. Once you come off the throttle it simply starts cooling down.

[BigGrizzly]

I have closed systemson my boats and never get a spike more than 5 degrees and I run a belt driven pump mainly when I did it a good full time electric pump wasn;t available, My next project will get rid of the belt for the powersteering and go with the Teleflex PA unit, it is great on my Corsican, and get rid of the water pump. that leives only the raw water pump and altnator belt. Circ pump and alt share the same belt-TOO bad.