Latham vs IMCO

[blueliner]

i am looking to do some fun stuff to the boat during the off-season, mainly adding dual ram external hydraulic steering. just wanted to get some input from fellow donzi owners, as to what your opinions are regarding these two systems. i have heard that these are the two best. if there is another i should look into i am all ears. thanks in advance.

[DonziEd]

Latham is one of the best and also very expensive. IMCO is also very good and not as expensive. Mayfair is another and is as good as Latham and also expensive. You will be fine with IMCO and you will save some $$. :cool:

[RickSE]

Blue, I have Latham on mine. Heavy duty stuff.

[blueliner]

what do you think of the latham vs the IMCO??? both are quality rigs, but id the latham worth the extra dough for what i am doing in my boat. offshore racer is one thing, but for my boat...???
Blue, I have Latham on mine. Heavy duty stuff.

[cigarette30]

what do you think of the latham vs the IMCO??? both are quality rigs, but id the latham worth the extra dough for what i am doing in my boat. offshore racer is one thing, but for my boat...???

Blueliner, it's only money, you have not held back so far, go for it. (actually just kidding) I have the Latham on the Cig, and will do the same with the Classic, very clean and top shelf. I am not sure of the dollar differance, any idea? BTW, don't even consider single ram.

[p729lws]

I'm looking at adding the XS system from Hilsinger Motorsports to my 22 this winter. There is some info and photos in this thread.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=37303&highlight=XS+STEERING

Price was less that $3K for a single drive dual ram system at this time last year but may be more now. I like that the hydraulic lines are mounted on the bracket that holds the ram so there are less transom penetrations and a cleaner installation than some of the other systems.

Dan

[Sam]

cigarette30, are you saying no single ram regardless of boat size and power.

THX
Sam

[blackhawk]

I would be more concerned about getting a full system to the helm over a dual vs single ram setup.

I'd call Dred at trick Marine and get a price on the XS system that p729lws was speaking of. Great parts at a reasonable price! :yes:

[Jraysray]

Blueliner, don't even consider single ram.

I have a singal ram Latham. What am I missing out on? Works great for me.

[cigarette30]

cigarette30, are you saying no single ram regardless of boat size and power.

THX
Sam

If your going to upgrade for both safety and control, I would never stop at just the single ram. To upgrade from standard is a big expense and a brave move, I just see no need in then doing it half way ....... I also agree to go to the helm as stated herein.

[blackhawk]

If your going to upgrade for both safety and control, I would never stop at just the single ram. To upgrade from standard is a big expense and a brave move, I just see no need in then doing it half way ....... I also agree to go to the helm as stated herein.

I don't think dual ram is "necessary" and on most applications a single ram will work fine BUT I agree if one is good two is better! Plus dual ram looks sweeeet! :D

[roadtrip se]

Latham is the best

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9808

[blueliner]

what makes latham the best???? is it worth the cash??? how much does a full dual setup go for?? are we talking $500 more for the setup or thousands??
Latham is the best

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9808

[Dr. Dan]

what makes latham the best???? is it worth the cash??? how much does a full dual setup go for?? are we talking $500 more for the setup or thousands??

:smash: Blue...I spoke with Latham a week ago, he gave me a price for a full to helm Dual Ram Bravo based Set-Up $7500.00 parts only!

I have a 1993 King Cobra so Custom Fabrication would spike that even more, plus I would have it professionally rigged by someone who actually knows what they are doing (not me).

So I would would bet you should be in that Ball Park. I do see complete Systems come up on Offshore and other sites on ocassion, and of course they are much less. I think if you were patient and diligent in your search ... you could find one someone is getting rid of.

Other alternatives to consider would be a ITS Set Up from Merc, sell the parts you don't need to offset the costs. Or sell your entire drive and get a complete newer ITS Bravo XR. Your net costs might surprise you. As radical as this seems.

:rolleyes: I am in a quandry myself because my drive is rock solid, and doesn't break...its hard to make the argument to invest that kinda Jing in my system ... when parts could become an issue...and qualified service Techs... are getting more gun shy as the years go by... as it is.

Odds are I will just go slower and hope Roadtrip doesn't provoke me too often in our annual 1000 Islands Runs. Fact is I seldom cruise over 70mph even though the boat goes faster than I have been able to take it(low 80's)... I am planning a full Drive System Replacement in time... but for now... I am holding on to this King Cobra, cuz the sucka is a runner and it handles well.

I do know it will handle even better with full steering though... so .. I will just have to see. It all costs money. If I could do a system for $4k or under... I might consider having it made for the King. But once I get over 5 Large...it's another matter. It would be cheaper for me to just find a complete set up with drive from a boat that is getting a Surface Drive installed or was a "Pull Off" for some other reason. Either way... I am budgeting about $12,000 for that end of the next Phase of Rebuild. Or I may still through an Arneson on it, which is only a Tad more...but would really be cool as hell! :bighug:

Doc of No Particulate Matter of Fact or Fiction

[catch 22]

Marine Machine isn't a bad set up either. I've had it on my 22 for about a year now. Very nice system.

[blackhawk]

what makes latham the best???? is it worth the cash??? how much does a full dual setup go for?? are we talking $500 more for the setup or thousands??

You're talking thousands sometimes. I know others will disagree with me but you are paying for a name with some of these companies. Not that paying for a name is a bad thing, but when it's thousands of dollars you have to weigh your options. External steering isn't rocket science. Many of these companies use the same parts. Helms, hydraulic lines and even cylinders sometimes! The unique parts are usually the wing plates, through hull fittings, etc.

I had a WPM dual ram full hydraulic system and it worked great! Rock solid, all stainless steel external lines(I hate the look of the rubber hanging of your transom) and the through hull fittings went through the mounting bracket which looked cleaner as well. Their top mount wingplate also works great for a drive shower. I can't remember exactly what I paid, but I think it was around $3500.

I've heard nothing but good things about the XS Performance systems.

[blackhawk]

Pics:

[Carl C]

I was just wondering why exactly is power steering needed on a 22C? My '05s steering is as light as a feather and has very little torque feedback regardless of trim position. It seems to me that $5,000+ could be better spent on engine mods. Is it a safety issue? Handling?:stan:

[Lenny]

Is it a safety issue?

uh huh :yes:

[blackhawk]

I was just wondering why exactly is power steering needed on a 22C? My '05s steering is as light as a feather and has very little torque feedback regardless of trim position. It seems to me that $5,000+ could be better spent on engine mods. Is it a safety issue? Handling?:stan:

Very much a safety issue. There is a lot of stress on the steering pin and gimbal ring. The external steering takes all of the stress off that point. And the bravo gimbal rings wear out VERY quickly. Also improves handling. External steering to the helm is TIGHT, responsive and much more dependable.

Also, with an internal system I have heard stories of the power steering belt breaking and the boat going into high speed spinouts.

[roadtrip se]

and that included exterior lines wrapped in stainless braid, separate reservior and cooler, brass interior fittings, and a lot of custom work with aircraft aluminum reinforcement behind the steering wheel, so I could retain the original helm.

The interior lines are supported every six inches with stainless-padded clamps.

The rams are much larger and beefier than most competitive systems.

The attachment points on the transom are beefier than most.

The wing plate is all stainless with no aluminum billet attachment points like I have seen on many IMCO systems. The rams are mounted inside of my twin ram Bennet tabs, which I believe offers better support.

It's the old you get what you pay for adage.

Shop around...

[Rootsy]

if you are going to do a FULL hydraulic Helm setup... then do dual ram.. period...

JMHO

JR

[Jraysray]

Does anyone have any pics or a diagram on the proper set up of a Latham steering system? I need to see how it is supposed to be set up under the hatch. I am seriously starting to think mine is not set up correctly.

[Carl C]

Lenny, Blackhawk, thanks for the feedback. This is my first IO. My other hot-rods have been outboards and the steering torque with the motor jacked up required a death grip on the wheel. Dual cable steering was the safety fix but it is still scary. I love the steering on my 22 and hopefully, being brand new, I won't have to worry about hydraulic steering for a couple years.:)

[blackhawk]

Blueliner, IMO WHAT system you buy is more important than the brand. Like rootsy said, go FULL hydraulic dual ram and enjoy some great peace of mind. All of the popular steering systems are built plenty strong to handle the recreational 22' boat. Even if you drive it like a madman! :D

[blackhawk]

Lenny, Blackhawk, thanks for the feedback. This is my first IO. My other hot-rods have been outboards and the steering torque with the motor jacked up required a death grip on the wheel. Dual cable steering was the safety fix but it is still scary. I love the steering on my 22 and hopefully, being brand new, I won't have to worry about hydraulic steering for a couple years.:)

Carl C, here's some priceless advice. There is a U-bolt that goes through the gimbal ring that squeezes the ring onto the steering pin. It comes out and has a plate and two nuts on gimbal housing. Tighten those two nuts OFTEN! Should help to keep that gimbal in good shape for awhile! :)

[Carl C]

Carl C, here's some priceless advice. There is a U-bolt that goes through the gimbal ring that squeezes the ring onto the steering pin. It comes out and has a plate and two nuts on gimbal housing. Tighten those two nuts OFTEN! Should help to keep that gimbal in good shape for awhile! :) Maybe some red loc-tite!!:biggrin:

[ibyte]

How do you guys feel about the Arneson - Bravo Conversion Kit which includes a single ram. It is supposed to handle more power and speed. Is it still safe for high horsepower and high speeds? Is it because of different stress factors (transom mounting) between the Bravo and Arneson that that a single ram set-up is good enought for a single drive arneson application?

[blackhawk]

How do you guys feel about the Arneson - Bravo Conversion Kit which includes a single ram. It is supposed to handle more power and speed. Is it still safe for high horsepower and high speeds? Is it because of different stress factors (transom mounting) between the Bravo and Arneson that that a single ram set-up is good enought for a single drive arneson application?

Part of it may be that the ram and mounting bracket for the Arneson is HUGE! :eek: Some seriously heavy duty stuff!

[blackhawk]

and that included exterior lines wrapped in stainless braid, separate reservior and cooler, brass interior fittings, and a lot of custom work with aircraft aluminum reinforcement behind the steering wheel, so I could retain the original helm.Shop around...

You were able to use your original helm? That saves a lot of work!(And money!)

I wanted to so bad but my original was way too small for a dual ram set-up. Mine came with a small teleflex helm with the filler cap on the outside behind the wheel.

[Lenny]

How do you guys feel about the Arneson - Bravo Conversion Kit which includes a single ram. It is supposed to handle more power and speed. Is it still safe for high horsepower and high speeds? Is it because of different stress factors (transom mounting) between the Bravo and Arneson that that a single ram set-up is good enought for a single drive arneson application?

Well, it is about $14K new from Rik PLUS you need a transmission (72C, BW) . And most probably some more things unforseen... (rocker plates, different tabs, prop, cooling intake and plumbing etc etc. )

[roadtrip se]

You were able to use your original helm? That saves a lot of work!(And money!)

I wanted to so bad but my original was way too small for a dual ram set-up. Mine came with a small teleflex helm with the filler cap on the outside behind the wheel.

Scott,

No, actually I had to re-work my existing helm to accept the high capacity unit from Latham. I didn't want to give up the look of the existing helm, so we engineered some pieces out of aircraft aluminum to fill the gaping hole that Donzi seemed to think was necessary for their stock steering and effectively bolted the hole closed from the front while providing the support needed to mount the new unit.

It took a lot of head scratching, time, and money to keep everything looking "stock". Works great and you have to get up under the dash to see that things are a little different on the beast.

I spent more time thinking through the steering system installation than any
of the other upgrades I did to the boat. Of course, I suffer from obsessive compulsive disorder and most of you may not be afflicted with the same amount of anal retentiveness that made me spend so much time thinking through this install.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10042

[blackhawk]

Scott,

No, actually I had to re-work my existing helm to accept the high capacity unit from Latham. I didn't want to give up the look of the existing helm, so we engineered some pieces out of aircraft aluminum to fill the gaping hole that Donzi seemed to think was necessary for their stock steering and effectively bolted the hole closed from the front while providing the support needed to mount the new unit.

It took a lot of head scratching, time, and money to keep everything looking "stock". Works great and you have to get up under the dash to see that things are a little different on the beast.

I spent more time thinking through the steering system installation than any
of the other upgrades I did to the boat. Of course, I suffer from obsessive compulsive disorder and most of you may not be afflicted with the same amount of anal retentiveness that made me spend so much time thinking through this install.


Ahhh, got ya. Too many definitions for helm! ;) I thought you meant the actual resevoir. I know I had to replace mine with a Charlyn unit and it was HUGE(and heavy).

And I hear you on the thinking about the installation! Something about drilling holes through your transom makes you want to do it right the first time. What's that saying? Measure 712 times, drill once? LOL :D

[Bryan Tuvell 33ZX]

IMHO Latham, the workmanship is top notch. I have seen many other brands have issues, yet not IMCO. Both are great, shop for a good buy.

Bryan