When Is It Going To Stop!

[Shanghied Again]

Crude oil futures spiked to more than $70 a barrel for the first time as Hurricane Katrina targeted an area crucial to the country's energy infrastructure. The storm was on a path to hit New Orleans early this morning, shutting down an estimated 1 million barrels of refining capacity and sharply curbing offshore production in the region. Light, sweet crude for October delivery on the New York Mercantile Exchange climbed as much as $4.67 a barrel in electronic after-hours trading in Singapore to hit a high of $70.80 a barrel.
LOOKS LIKE EVERYTIME SOMEONE SNEEZES THE WRONG WAY OIL GOES UP! :angryfire
Before I was in the boat buisness i was in the oil buisness and I have never seen BS like this. If the goverment wants to put this country in a depression they are doing one hell of a good job. The gulf has been plaqued with hurricanes year after year and has never had any effect on oil prices. Now it seems like if someone farts the price goes up.
We need regulation or someone that really gives a sh** whats going on. I am republican but Bush needs a wake up call if making his freinds in Saudi Arabia happy and starve the US to death he is not the man for the job!
__________________

[gcarter]

Frank, you don't want regulation!!!!
Scary thought!!!
You're old enough to remember the 70's and the LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG gas lines!!!!
You don't want that again.
The problem has been for the last 20 years is the tree huggers have stymied increased domestic production and new refinery construction.
And now the Chinese and Indians have bought up every last ounce of spare crude.
Things are tight now, but not desparate.
Back in those awful '70's when the middle East wasn't selling us oil, other market producers started producing more and eventually the market collapsed. This needs to happen again. The new energy bill will help this happen but it probably takes five to seven years to plan and build a refinery.
Another thing that's different is the futures market is setting prices rather than market forces. That's goofy.
One last thought, in '79 and '80 when prices hit $40.00, that's about $100.00 today, a lot more than $70.00!!!!!
Personally, I would rather pay more in the short term and get all I want rather than have the government regulate it in some way and only buy 10 gallons at a time on every other day.

[Craig S]

[QUOTE=Shanghied Again].
LOOKS LIKE EVERYTIME SOMEONE SNEEZES THE WRONG WAY OIL GOES UP! :angryfire
QUOTE]

IMHO it isn't going to stop.:bawling:

[Shanghied Again]

Oil prices have been skyrocketing over the past few weeks, increasing close to 45% in the past 3 months to an alarmingly record high of $67 a barrel. Gasoline prices in certain states have already breached $3 a gallon. It seemed as if it was only yesterday (or less than one year ago) that traders were claiming $40 would the highest that oil prices could rally. Now in retrospect, in the minds of many of those same traders, $40 seems to be the lowest that we could see oil prices fall to once again. The sharp surge in energy prices has nearly everyone scratching their heads about where oil prices may be headed next and what currency pair they could trade to profit from that view. Some oil traders are calling for $80 a barrel while more aggressive ones are setting their sights on $100. Yet, in every scenario there are skeptics who also have valid arguments and in this case, oil skeptics are calling the rally a speculative bubble that will burst sooner or later. However for the actual majority that are banking on higher oil prices, trading currencies instead of oil may be more profitable endeavor due to the unique ability to earn not only capital appreciation, but also interest income, something futures contracts cannot offer.
THE SCARY PART IS OIL EFFECTS EVERYTHING IN OUR LIVES
Heating Oil
Natural Gas
Electricity
Plastics
Automobiles
Paint
Certain Drugs
Plastic Containers
Kids Toys
The biggest of All Transportation of Food and Products. Via Ship, Plane,Train and Truck.

[txtaz]

I'll fill everyone in on what's going on when I get back this afternoon. You might be surprised.
Jefe, chime in on this one. Your in the biz also.
Wes

[gcarter]

[QUOTE=Shanghied Again].
LOOKS LIKE EVERYTIME SOMEONE SNEEZES THE WRONG WAY OIL GOES UP! :angryfire
QUOTE]

IMHO it isn't going to stop.:bawling:
I'm not any happier about this than any one else, after all I'm putting gas into six vehicles and a boat.
BUT I want the market to work, and it will in the long run.
I remember in 1980 accompanying a friend in the energy trading business on a trip to West Texas to look at some oil property. The owner and his partner were telling my friend how the properties around his were being flooded by other oil companies (pumping water into the oil producing strata raises the pressure and increases production) so that they were getting a "free ride". They said at $40.00/ barrel it was money in the bank, and that it would go on indefinately!!!!
Well, my friend didn't buy, and within the next year the market collapsed.
It ALWAYS does.

[Lenny]

94 Octane for the boat is $6.50Can an IMP gallon here now... :(

That translates into $4.35US for a US gallon here. :eek:

[Cuda]

As long as there is a market for high priced oil, it will not come down. Simple economics. Supply and demand, even if the supply is artificially tight, just the perception will keep it high.

[joseph m. hahnl]

the thing people don't seem to take into account is president bush is an oil man.it is in his best interest that the oil remains at high prices. him and is father are employed by the saudi's and they take millions of dollars in kick backs a year from them. to me this is a conflict of interest to the country the same with chaney who is also on leave from his employer and is a conflict of interest to the nation. but that's what you get when you re elect a criminal who fixed an election to win the presidency. made up propaganda that sent the nation to war. i mean which is more important for impeachment a BJ or blatent fraudgulance. nothing against repubicans but. ahh, us yanks allready kicked your confederate ass's. and we're getting a little tired of the my **** don't stink attitude. you know the difference between a republican and a democrate. the damecrate will take your dime and give it to some else in more need. the republican will put it in his pocket. nh is a republican state and all of the laws here are for buisness nothing to protect the little guy. like when you buy a car Buyer beware, or you can be fired from your job at any moment without any reason. but i still say live free or die.


now let that be a lesson: 3 things you never talk about politics, religion, and sleeping with the neighbors wife. any one leads to a fight.


are you still going to buy a donzi made in china????????????????????????//

joe

ps: i would never hold political views or political party against any one.
it's who you are that counts.


.

[gold-n-rod]

the thing people don't seem to take into account is president bush is an oil man.it is in his best interest that the oil remains at high prices. him and is father are employed by the saudi's and they take millions of dollars in kick backs a year from them. to me this is a conflict of interest to the country the same with chaney who is also on leave from his employer and is a conflict of interest to the nation. but that's what you get when you re elect a criminal who fixed an election to win the presidency. made up propaganda that sent the nation to war. i mean which is more important for impeachment a BJ or blatent fraudgulance. nothing against repubicans but. ahh, us yanks allready kicked your confederate ass's. and we're getting a little tired of the my **** don't stink attitude. you know the difference between a republican and a democrate. the damecrate will take your dime and give it to some else in more need. the republican will put it in his pocket. nh is a republican state and all of the laws here are for buisness nothing to protect the little guy. like when you buy a car Buyer beware, or you can be fired from your job at any moment without any reason. but i still say live free or die.


now let that be a lesson: 3 things you never talk about politics, religion, and sleeping with the neighbors wife. any one leads to a fight.


are you still going to buy a donzi made in china????????????????????????//

joe

ps: i would never hold political views or political party against any one.
it's who you are that counts.


.

Well said. I couldn't have said it better myself. Well, I would have spelled it better, but your perspective comes thru loud and clear, and I'm on board, Joe.

Oh, where's Toona when you need her!!

[txtaz]

WOW Joe, Tell us what you really think.

Here's what I know:
Exploration and construction has been down for the last 18 months, significantly. Oil prices have gone up. Hymm what's going on here?
Exxon stock went from around $38 to $60 in the last 2 years. The change in stock price is from the increased cost of oil and the sales price. Some of the reduction in costs of exploration and construction could be included be certainly not all of it. This reduction in exploration and construction is a planned event by most major oil companies. Why now? Their cash flow and revenues are the highest in a long time. At first I thought is was to boost the bottom line and stock price. BUT there are tens of billions of dollars that have not gone to that end.
My guess is there is corporate cleanup going on. You know ensuring 401k plans actually have money and the financials reflect something more realistic. Sub chapter companies closed or became productve entities.
I would bet these CEO's living in $30 million homes woke up one day and realized the Justice Dept is gunning for them.
Just my .02. BTW, exploration and construction is "planned" on returning in the next 8 - 10 months.
Wes

[ChromeGorilla]

Well, I would have spelled it better


comes thru

Ummmmmm, thru????? Shesh, after getting all grammatical on his ass you spell through incorrectly. :biggrin: ;) :uzi: ;)

[Cuda]

us yanks allready kicked your confederate ass's. and we're getting a little tired of the my **** don't stink attitude.

.

Where the fck did that come from? Show me where I acted that way.

[gold-n-rod]

Ummmmmm, thru????? Shesh, after getting all grammatical on his ass you spell through incorrectly. :biggrin: ;) :uzi: ;)

Naw, here you go: http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=thru

And I didn't get all grammatical on his ass; I like Joe. After his post, he's going to need all the friends he can get!!!!!!!!!!!!! :smash:

[boxy]

the thing people don't seem to take into account is president bush is an oil man.it is in his best interest that the oil remains at high prices. him and is father are employed by the saudi's and they take millions of dollars in kick backs a year from them. to me this is a conflict of interest to the country the same with chaney who is also on leave from his employer and is a conflict of interest to the nation. but that's what you get when you re elect a criminal who fixed an election to win the presidency. made up propaganda that sent the nation to war. i mean which is more important for impeachment a BJ or blatent fraudgulance. nothing against repubicans but. ahh, us yanks allready kicked your confederate ass's. and we're getting a little tired of the my **** don't stink attitude. you know the difference between a republican and a democrate. the damecrate will take your dime and give it to some else in more need. the republican will put it in his pocket. nh is a republican state and all of the laws here are for buisness nothing to protect the little guy. like when you buy a car Buyer beware, or you can be fired from your job at any moment without any reason. but i still say live free or die.


now let that be a lesson: 3 things you never talk about politics, religion, and sleeping with the neighbors wife. any one leads to a fight.


are you still going to buy a donzi made in china????????????????????????//

joe

ps: i would never hold political views or political party against any one.
it's who you are that counts.


.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but accusations like the ones above demand some factual back up. Where do I find it..

[gcarter]

You guys up North there need to watch out for the black helicopters.....they're coming to get you!!!!!
Conspiricies, conspiricies!!!!!!! :biggrin:
This scenario is like the movie JFK, a big government conspiricy!!!!!!
It's obvious you have no inkling of the mechanics of the world petroleum industry and market.
The idea that two or three people can control the world oil market is insane!!!
You two have GOT to come up with something better than this!!!

[Lenny]

Boxy, you are being "brave" .. :)

After a few smack downs. and enlightenings, I have LEARNED that it is best to keep my shut about ANY Political or Cultural viewpoints outside of my Country. I now just read this stuff and disable the keyboard. If it is past midnight little "people" climb on my shoulder and tell me to stay away from the thread. :D It seems to be working thus far.

It has NEVER gotten me anywhere other than in Ka-Ka... We have enough problems here. :yes:

...quietly reading, Lenny...

[gold-n-rod]

The idea that two or three people can control the world oil market is insane!!!
You two have GOT to come up with something better than this!!!

First of all, I think there are more than 2 of "us." Second, Bush has been in power for the past 6 years. Swirling around during this period has been plenty of clues that the carefree, cheap oil days are numbered. What has he or the 'publicans done about it? Nuttin, nada, zip, zilch. Even the most recent "energy bill" (a joke) refused to deal with it.

A true leader anticipates. I see nothing in GWB policy that's anticipatory at all. All reactionary, just like where we are with world oil prices.

We get what we deserve, unfortunately. :(

[Formula Jr]

Don't worry folks, China will have its civil war soon.
We will be horrified by the slaughter.
And then everything will be back to normal. :)

[gcarter]

Randy, you are misguided.....
Do you understand the word CARTEL?
Are they legal here?
Where are they legal?
Are they operated by, and with the blessings of foreign governments?

Again, who has fought the expansion of drilling and the construction of refineries here?
GWB?
Bill Clintons tree hugging lawyer friends?
Much more likely!
Who stopped drilling offshore in California?
The Republicans?
Who kept the Alaskan oil from crossing the Rockies?
The Republicans?

Come on guys...
Get a grip!
Again, your answers are way too simple and uninformed!

[joseph m. hahnl]

You guys up North there need to watch out for the black helicopters.....they're coming to get you!!!!!
Conspiricies, conspiricies!!!!!!! :biggrin:
This scenario is like the movie JFK, a big government conspiricy!!!!!!
It's obvious you have no inkling of the mechanics of the world petroleum industry and market.
The idea that two or three people can control the world oil market is insane!!!
You two have GOT to come up with something better than this!!!


when your talking to the 2 top dogs of the most powerful nation on earth.:incredibl
and what i was saying is if your looking for bush to help your out of luck.
the kick backs from the saudi's is not conspiricy it is fact. they are in the saudi's pockets. and chaney is what the ceo of the company that holds most of the defence contracts.




cuda " sorry i just hit the reply and forgot to delete you qoute".:stan:

any way as you know i like adding fuel to the fire that is what we were talking about right."fuel":propeller

i just went down to the gas station and filled the minx $2.659 27gallons
buy this weekend gas is estimated to go up another .30 to 40 cents:shocking:

joe

[gcarter]

Don't worry folks, China will have its civil war soon.
We will be horrified by the slaughter.
And then everything will be back to normal. :)
I think you are 100% correct!
Pretty scary stuff!

[boxy]

The weekend is 5 days away, hockey hasn't started yet, and I'm bored....
laissez les bon temps rouler...

[Formula Jr]

And don't worry also too much about India. Pakistan and India will be lobbing a few big ones back and forth soon also. So these two big population centers, china and India, that are in-sourcing all our jobs and taken all our cheap oil, will be annihilating themselves in the next ten years.

And it won't matter, cause they're not Christains anyway.
So we won't have to worry about heaven being overcrowded.
And finding a parking space will be easy at the mall in the afterlife.

[joseph m. hahnl]

.

And it won't matter, cause they're not Christains anyway.
.



aah ohh. that was #1, never talk about religion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:shocking:

you might get stabbed or shot.:fire: but it won't matter because the guy that did it is born again and he'll just ask jesus for forgiveness:cistineb: and every thing will be okay.:yes:

[txtaz]

And finding a parking space will be easy at the mall in the afterlife.
You do mean Donzi parking at the mall since it's on a canal and they have foxy valet parking. Yeah? I thought so. :beer:
Wes

[RickR]

One of the few things I agreed with Clinton on was a energy tax. $.50 a gallon on fuel would be a good start.
It would reduce consumption and help with the deficit.

BTW; THANKS GUYS :biggrin: My Vanguard Energy Fund has been paying for most of my fuel for the past 5 years.

[Formula Jr]

Didn't we recently have a fatway declaired by an american cleric against the elected president of venezuela? I wonder if Pat would think it wrong if a an angel of god could get close enough to Chavez to set off a bomb?

Oh, we are sooooo different then them Islam radicals, and us.

But if someone says they are going to kill you, do you then sell them a natural resourse at market value?
That just seems unlikely.....

In this information age, we can't hide all the funny little things we use to do.
We just have wars of Spin.

[Formula Jr]

You do mean Donzi parking at the mall since it's on a canal and they have foxy valet parking. Yeah? I thought so. :beer:
Wes

Yes! We will all have ZRs and gas will be free! There will be endless, 6 footers in a following sea. And women will all have big boobs, and really tight ....... oky, I won't go there......

But it is promised...... ;)

[Formula Jr]

Oh and by the way, Pat Robertson was a serious Acid Head in the 60's.
Go ahead and look it up. You wouldn't believe me if I just gave you the sources..

But when I want to caution my nephews about drug use, I point to Pat Robertson, and say, "You don't want to end up like him. Do You?"




Back to the price of gas.......

If the margins were always the same under a "free Market," then why was this quarter for the oil companies so insanely profitable?

[txtaz]

Yes! We will all have ZRs and gas will be free! There will be endless, 6 footers in a following sea. And women will all have big boobs, and really tight ....... oky, I won't go there......

But it is promised...... ;)
You definately have thought about this more than I.
I will be cheking in with you before I check out...LOL
Da Taz <--- With new heavenly dreams

[Formula Jr]

So if 60% of the oil we use comes from elsewhere:

1: We shouldn't piss people off
2: We Shouldn't piss people off

and three


We shouldn't piss people off.

The Sauds are going down soon also.
They are the habit-trial keepers of the walk....but they are, even to their own people, dirty.

Thats gonna be the big surprise.

We showed them how to topple governments................

So we will in Iraq have a Kurdish county in the north, Some very pissed Sunnies in the center, and some very happy oil rich Sheites in the south.

Three counties are being formed again, whether we like it or not. A constitusion over these three places is a joke. A western idea.


And then the sauds will fall internally.. And what do we do then?


We could have sold this ideal of freedom very early and easily. We could have backed the Kurds when we were asked to. But we did nothing as the helicopter gunships cut down whole swatts of people.

China tried once at the square. And we said **** You Die! Make cheap **** for us.

And we said thats Oky........ we will build more Walmarts.

And when we were fighting the commies, a west german rented a Cessian 150 and landed in red square. And we should have learned something from that, but we didn't. We just spent more than you will ever imagine on star wars and stealth.

Do I hate America? No, I love America. I love its people. But I don't like what my county is turning into. And I don't like the fact that so many in my family are so stupid and in such a rush to act exactly in the ways of our enemies.

I bought 18 thousand dollars of solar cells, instead of buying a nice boat. That will power my house and send energy back into the grid. Is your son or daughter worth 18 thousand dollars?

This is how I will fight this war.....

[Mr X]

What about those of us that do not have children?? :rolleyes:

[Lenny]

What about those of us that do not have children?? :rolleyes:

...then I will let you have one of mine Ted... :D

[Mr X]

Cool! I could sell the child on ebay for gas money!!

[Craig S]

Cool! I could sell the child on ebay for gas money!!

If a Boss 429 oil pan brings $3750, how much do you think you could get?

http://www.boss302.com/board/viewthread.php3?FID=12&TID=18943

[Carl C]

We saved Kuwaits ass. Why didn't we get a deal for cut-rate oil? We should be getting enough free oil from Iraq to at least pay for the war effort. And drill those damn wells in Alaska. Alaskans are all for it. They each get an annual profit sharing check. I know, I have family there.:banghead:

[Moody Blu']

these are the end of days. :frown:

[joseph m. hahnl]

BTW, I really like the way they now raise the price of fuel already in tanks at the depot's here.... Talk about boosting profit margins. Yesterday they were refusing to deliver diesel to anyone, waiting on the next price increase before releasing it. What a crock....

yah what's up with that they raise the price before they even buy it at their higher price.

joe

[gcarter]

BTW, I really like the way they now raise the price of fuel already in tanks at the depot's here.... Talk about boosting profit margins. Yesterday they were refusing to deliver diesel to anyone, waiting on the next price increase before releasing it. What a crock....
Please check my comment earlier about the futures market setting the oil price.



P.S.;
Since the futures market is setting the price, yes there are record profits because the price has almost nothing to do with supply and demand.
For instance, the Saudis can produce a barrel of oil for less than $10.00/barrel, and they can produce an awful lot of these barrels. West Texas light crude is probably $25.00/barrel and there's nowhere near as many. Our oil cost a lot more to recover, but it's nowhere near $70.00.
The futures market is terrified about the continuing growth of China's demand. In other words, they are responding to something that's not fully understood.
Our best plan is to produce as much of our own oil as we can, and refine it ourselves. The increased supplies will definately lower the markets fears.

[gold-n-rod]

Our best plan is to produce as much of our own oil as we can, and refine it ourselves. The increased supplies will definately lower the markets fears.

Well, THAT sure makes more sense than the drunken musings of Mr. Sarcasm, journalist of the day!!!

What I wonder about (yes, I get paid to wonder) is whether this is a supply problem or a refining problem. Georgy-Porgy can release all the stored barrels of crude he wants, but if it can't be turned into (almighty) gasoline, what's its effect on the market??????????????? None that I can see.

[mattyboy]

bunch of stations here in NJ got big fines seems there is a state or local law gas prices can only be raised once a day prices went from 2.59 2.79 and finished at 2.89 bet they wil get raised once at midnight and to avoid speculation just be around 3.29 this way a few days raises are in there
and was surprised the local no name or independant stations which are usually 10 cents cheaper than name brands all went right to 2.99 while the big boys exxon mobil bp amoco peaked at 2.89??

[gcarter]

Well, THAT sure makes more sense than the drunken musings of Mr. Sarcasm, journalist of the day!!!

What I wonder about (yes, I get paid to wonder) is whether this is a supply problem or a refining problem. Georgy-Porgy can release all the stored barrels of crude he wants, but if it can't be turned into (almighty) gasoline, what's its effect on the market??????????????? None that I can see.
Unfortunately the left leaning eco-terrorist attornies have managed to keep us from building a new refinery since the 70's.
Same way w/nuclear.
Ditto w/drilling in many promising areas.
They are one of the biggest problems.

[Bob]

The last new refinery in the USA was built in 1976. Numerous up grades on existing refineries has been done but the next new construction will be one outside Phoenix in the coming years. Still in the "permitting phase". Thank your local environmentalist and his attorney.


A side note, 35% of our oil comes from the Gulf of Mexico. Apache Corp. (a company that I used to work for) reported 8 missing production platforms.
They are still assessing the damage on the ones that they found. The missing platforms produced around 8 thousand barrels a day. That is only one of many operators that have lost facilities offshore. The "record profits" will put people to work buiding new facilities.

Maybe here in California, they will finally have sense to open up the drilling along the coast. Billions of barrels under the control of the California Coastal Commission and Hollywood.

[Cuda]

I hate to say it, but maybe it's time for the US Government to go in the oil refinery business. Anybody have an idea of how much it cost to build one?

[joseph m. hahnl]

I hate to say it, but maybe it's time for the US Government to go in the oil refinery business. Anybody have an idea of how much it cost to build one?


i thought bush allready was!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!


did you here the latest they want to take out the polution control additives
in the fuel to make it cheaper for us to buy. gee i wonder why gas is so high
do ya think maybe another scam!!!! just like the weapons of mass destruction
that just magically disapeared. oops there i go again

joe

[Formula Jr]

Who is Jack Schitt you ask?

The lineage is finally revealed. Many people are at a loss for a response when someone says " you don't know jack schitt."

Now you can intellectually handle the situation. Jack is the only son of Awe Schitt and O Schitt.

Awe Schitt, the fertilizer magnate, married O Schitt, the owner of kneedeep N. Schitt, Inc.

In turn, Jack Schitt married Noe Schitt, and the deeply religious couple produced six children: Holie Schitt, Fulla Schitt,Giva Schitt,Bull Schitt, and the twins, Deep Schitt and Dip Schitt.

Against her parents' wishes, Deep Schitt married Dumb Schitt, a high school dropout. After being married 15 years, Jack and Noe Schitt divorced.

Noe Schitt later married Mr. Sherlock, and because her kids were living with them, she wanted to keep her previous name. She was then known as Noe Schitt-Sherlock.

Dip Schitt married Loda Schitt and they produced a nervous son, Chicken Schitt.

Fulla Schitt and Giva Schitt were inseparable throughout their childhood and subsequently married the Happens brothers in a dual ceremony.

The wedding announcement in the newspaper announced the Schitt-Happens wedding.

The Schitt-Happens children are Dawg,Byrd, and Horse.

Bull Schitt, the prodigal son left home to tour the world, and recently returned from Italy with his new bride, Pisa Schitt.

So now when someone says, "you don't know Jack Schitt", you can correct them.

[Lenny]

too much time on your hands Owen :D too much time :D :D :D

[Formula Jr]

Just covered in oil from repairing my 56 MPG motorcycle. :)


aside note, how come no one buys used engine oil in small lots?
This would be interesting to see if bunker oil prices also went up....