Buying a Classic 18 or 22

[slendzion]

Hello, I'm a long time boater and a avid Donzi fan and finally pulling the trigger. I've had ski boats and old Chris Cfrafts all my life and need input on my two choices, a 1994 22 w/454 carberated (18,900.00 ) or a 1986 18 w/350 mag (13,900.00). I'll be boating on small inlands and Lk St Clair, so any input is helpfull. Also whats the years to stay away from?

[Chili 18]

The 22 you "sit in."

The 18 you "sit on"

Welcome to the tribe... :wavey:

All are way cool in their own way. Get both... :-)

Chili

[Marlin275]

From everything I've read here
from people who have driven both . . .

The 22 is dryer, higher freeboard,
handles bigger water better.

The 18 is more maneuverable, faster :)
and the most fun to drive.

[joseph m. hahnl]

it's all what you can afford. 1994 22ft 454cid sounds better than
1986 18ft 350cid. bigger is better. even when your on the motion in the ocean.
just ask any woman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


joe

[Silver Bullet]

22,22,22,22,22,22,22,22,22,22,22,22,22,22,22


22 Bud :smileybo:

[Ranman]

Welcome Slendzion. I used to live in Comerce Twp (on Lake Sherwood). If you haven't already, try using the search feature on this board and look up "18 vs 22". You should get some good reading material to help you in the decision making process.

Check the Events and Gatherings section of this board for info onthe Lake St. Clair gahering that is happening tomorrow.

Good luck.

[slendzion]

Welcome Slendzion. I used to live in Comerce Twp (on Lake Sherwood). If you haven't already, try using the search feature on this board and look up "18 vs 22". You should get some good reading material to help you in the decision making process.

Check the Events and Gatherings section of this board for info onthe Lake St. Clair gahering that is happening tomorrow.

Good luck.
Thanks alot, We're leaning towards the 22' but who knows? Whats the schedule for the gathering tommorow, I probably wont be out there till 11:00 ish weather permitting.

[Carl C]

I have to disagree with Marlin about the 18 being faster. Go with the 22!:boat:

[Marlin275]

I have to disagree with Marlin about the 18 being faster. Go with the 22!:boat:

Disagree all you want,
the worlds fastest Donzi classic is an X-18
Fact, Not Opinion !

[gcarter]

Maybe we should introduce catagories of 18's.....
I seriously doubt an in-out equipped X-18 would do what George's does. :eek: :eek:
On the other hand George's drivetrain probably wouldn't lose much on a 22.

[Ranman]

Thanks alot, We're leaning towards the 22' but who knows? Whats the schedule for the gathering tommorow, I probably wont be out there till 11:00 ish weather permitting.

We're meeting / launching at the ramp at 8:00am. After that we plan to run down to Gull Island and then up the South shipping cjhannel. Somewhere around 11:00 - 11:30 we'll be pulling into Browns for lunch. Browns is located on Harsens Island on the middle channel. Someone on LSCN could tell you how to get there by car. We'll probably be at Browns till 1:00 - 1:30. After that I think we're going to head out to the bay to hang for a while. U typically monitor VHF channel 69 and respond to "Ranman".

[Pismo]

Who cares about what "should" be faster or tends to be faster, an 18 or a 22, in this case the 22 will be faster and will ride better and suck much more gas. Go 22.

[boatnut]

Its already been said but to add emphasis:
The 22 is more beautiful (longer same beam), and offers a (slight) advantage in rough water.
The 18 is more fun to drive, closer to Porsche-like feel on the water.
Difficult to go wrong with either one. Personally I would start with an 18, if after a year you are not happy with it -- get something other than a Classic. If after a year you love it, you will also like a 22.

[Ormly]

What speed would that be in an 18 footer?

Orm

[onesubdrvr]

What speed would that be in an 18 footer?

Orm
Well over 100mph,....last tick I read about was about 120!! :eek!: :eek!:

[Nicotine Fit]

Its already been said but to add emphasis:
The 22 is more beautiful (longer same beam), and offers a (slight) advantage in rough water.
The 18 is more fun to drive, closer to Porsche-like feel on the water.
Difficult to go wrong with either one. Personally I would start with an 18, if after a year you are not happy with it -- get something other than a Classic. If after a year you love it, you will also like a 22.

Having experience in both on choppy/rough water, I would personally say that the 22 has more than a slight advantage in ride. 18's are definitely fun when it isn't rough. Chili 18's comment about sitting on an 18 vs. in a 22 is dead on. It really depends on where you boat. Good Luck!

[MOP]

I have owned a 16 & a 22 and did get to play with a buddies 18 a lot a few years back, if you boat in big water 22 and up is the way to go. In my case switching to a bigger boat has given me far more time on the water and is a ton easier on my old back. The 18 is one great boat but still on the small size and very wet when it gets snotty, if you lake or bay boat there is always a lee shore just may be a bugger going and coming.

Phil

[boatnut]

Well over 100mph,....last tick I read about was about 120!! :eek!: :eek!:

Wow, I am impressed! I have experienced 75 in an 18 and about 70 in a 22.
My summary is that anything over 80 with the hull design of these two boats is on the edge, anyone that takes them over 100 has to have a big set of brass ones!!!

[mattyboy]

I agree the 22 has a better ride
But i disagree with a few views here
the 18 and the 16 have better lines more symetrical then 22 not that it is a bad looking but it looks like it was put on willy wonka taffy puller look at the boot stripe it starts in the back then swoops up but instead of a graceful arch to the bow it starts up the goes straight then sort of makes it way to the bow
and don't get the idea Geoo is some fly by the seat of his pants speed demon there is nothing left to chance with the setup or the way he drives mighty mouse that 18 from what i've seen in person rides better at 100 than other
classics at 50
some things to also consider would be trailering and dock space if like here some marinas charge by the foot for a slip and a 22 needs a bigger tow vehicle has well

[joseph m. hahnl]

I agree the 22 has a better ride
But i disagree with a few views here
the 18 and the 16 have better lines more symetrical then 22 not that it is a bad looking but it looks like it was put on willy wonka taffy puller

matty: i don't know how to reply to that statement ."i'm in awwh.":shocking:

[mattyboy]

Joe then don't respond , ;) :) If my literary analogies shock you I apologize :)
Like I said the 22 is a good looking boat but it just doesn't have the same lines or symetry of the 18 or 16 maybe cause it is the same beam and 4 foot additional length and to me this is more noticeble on a colored sided over white boat I don't know if it is how the strakes seem to end higher on the 16 and 18 than the 22
Now looking just at the deck on a 22 the long nose and stripe are hard to beat
just my opinion
here look at these shots similar angles the stripe and strakes look higher on the 18 and on the 22 lower and flatter

Ps I'll be outside in the parking lot of treasure cove at the picnic so all my 22 brothers can kick my ass ;) :) I guess I shoulda just said I like the lines on the 16 and 18 better than a 22 but far be it from me to put my foot in my mouth :)

[joseph m. hahnl]

Joe then don't respond , ;) :) If my literary analogies shock you I apologize :)
Like I said the 22 is a good looking boat but it just doesn't have the same lines or symetry of the 18 or 16 maybe cause it is the same beam and 4 foot additional length and to me this is more noticeble on a colored sided over white boat I don't know if it is how the strakes seem to end higher on the 16 and 18 than the 22
Now looking just at the deck on a 22 the long nose and stripe are hard to beat
just my opinion

Ps I'll be outside in the parking lot of treasure cove at the picnic so all my 22 brothers can kick my ass ;) :)


matty: no need to apologize! you are entitled to your opinion. as i've said before you like what you like. but in all reality it doesn't matter what you think. it matters what slendzoin likes and apparently he likes both boats equally. so as you said the 22 is a better ride which in that statement in it self the 22 is a better handling boat. kind of like motorcycles when you learn to ride one you start of small and work your way up in cc. when you want to switch brands you don't buy the small cc you still go up. he says he is an expiereced boater has had a few. there would'nt be a need for him to get the starter boat. as you know owning a donzi is like getting married you plan on being with it for life. so get the one that will keep you happy thru all the years."Young and long legged"

joe

[mattyboy]

. there would'nt be a need for him to get the starter boat.

joe

now I am shocked :eek: ;) :rlol:

[smoothie]

Call me crazy but I agree with matty,the 22c is a nice looking boat but they dont have the traditional Aronow hooked bow.

[joseph m. hahnl]

now I am shocked :eek: ;) :rlol:

I never leave home with out jumper cables!!!:jestera:

[slendzion]

Thanks to all the great debates/input. I'm glad I registered on this site, very informative. Now I have another problem, the guy sold the 22 I was interested in because I dragged my feet so now I'm starting the hunt for another 22' between 1995 - 2002. I'll check the boats for sale on this site but any other input is welcome.

[blackhawk]

Keep checking on traderonline:

http://www.boattraderonline.com/newadsearch.html

And offshore only:

http://www.offshoreonly.com/esvon/browse-185-0.html

And I agree with most of the statements so far with the exception of the looks. IMO a 22 is a better looking boat. To me the 22 looks normal and the 18 looks "stubby". No offense to anyone. :D I do like the looks of an 18 but the bow just looks too short. Just my opinion. Any 24* boat under 25' should have a 7' beam. The long, narrow bow of the 22 makes it much more "sexy" looking! :yes:

[slendzion]

Ok I think I finally found the one I think I want, if he takes my offer. Its a 1996 22' Blackhawk w/502, low hours all wht with red trim (no trailer) and they want 29,000.00 any thoughts?

[slendzion]

Also what do you guys know about the Mefc surface drives on the Donzi. Good, bad, problems, advantages etc.

[slendzion]

Merc, not mefc:redface:

[RedDog]

Ok I think I finally found the one I think I want, if he takes my offer. Its a 1996 22' Blackhawk w/502, low hours all wht with red trim (no trailer) and they want 29,000.00 any thoughts?
Is it a real Blackhawk or a 22 Classic with a Blackhawk drive. If it is a Classic - that sound pricey. If it is a real Blackhawk still sounds pricey. No trailer is a real minus.

[donzi182003]

Thats expensive for a 96. I have afriend who has a 2003 22 with a 496 mag ho and he wants 35k to give you an example. With a loadmaster tandem trailer with brakes. 2.5K value.

[slendzion]

Is it a real Blackhawk or a 22 Classic with a Blackhawk drive. If it is a Classic - that sound pricey. If it is a real Blackhawk still sounds pricey. No trailer is a real minus.
Check out the brokrage shop at www.brokerageshop.com and let me know what you think, remember this is my first Donzi so all help is great. It says its a custum blackhawk with a blackhawk surface piercing drive (dual props) w/ 415 hp 502, the add has some great pics

[slendzion]

Check out the brokrage shop at www.brokerageshop.com (http://www.brokerageshop.com) and let me know what you think, remember this is my first Donzi so all help is great. It says its a custum blackhawk with a blackhawk surface piercing drive (dual props) w/ 415 hp 502, the add has some great pics
Sorry, its www.thebrokerageshop.com

[RedDog]

Nice looking boat - but what is custom about it? Based of the exhaust tip location and gas tank size, I'd speculate that it is a Blackhawk hull.

[slendzion]

Nice looking boat - but what is custom about it? Based of the exhaust tip location and gas tank size, I'd speculate that it is a Blackhawk hull.
Not sure whats custom, maybe the graphics? Whats the difference between a regular 22 hull and a BH? Just the exh. tips and fuel tank? or is it a limited edition model?

[slendzion]

Thats expensive for a 96. I have afriend who has a 2003 22 with a 496 mag ho and he wants 35k to give you an example. With a loadmaster tandem trailer with brakes. 2.5K value.
I thought so to, its probably the "juice" for the broker gets it pricey. I did get a quote for a loadmaster all aluminum tandem with brakes for 2800.00 but haven't bought anything yet, just doin some homework before I do. Thanks again

[RedDog]

... Whats the difference between a regular 22 hull and a BH? ...

The Blackhawk hull is a 22 Classic hull built with "rocker" to help the shorter Blackhawk drive, which has less leverage, air out the hull. The larger gas tank helps move the center of gravity toward the rear some - also helping to air the hull. The higher exhaust tips are the result of the engine being mounted higher in order to obtain a higher X-dimension, i.e., props closer to the surface.

Also, the Blackhawk comes with K-plans, as shown in the pictures rather than Bennet trim tabs.

I've never been in one - almost bought one - but understand it has a steep learning curve to drive fast and safely (at the same time). I would recommend picking up the phone to talk and listen to some current Blackhawk owners before buying one.

[blackhawk]

Looks like a blackhawk to me. $29k without a trailer is way too much. I sold mine for less than that and my boat was CLEAN with full hydraulic dual ram steering, 280 K-planes, all new white faced Faria gauges, painted windshied, a Sony Xplode stereo system with a 10 disc changer, sub and over 800 watts of power and a Eagle tandem axle trailer with brand new brakes. I'm starting to think I gave mine away! :banghead:

The blackhawk can be a tempermental beast. In the right conditions (good wind chop with rythem)the blackhawk is an absolute blast to drive. Very loose and very fast. A great rush! :D In the not so right conditions it can be work to drive fast. The hull and surface drive does not like the washing machine chop and really doesn't like the boat wakes to the side of the boat. Unfortunately, 95% of my boating was in these conditions!

I love driving on the edge, so I did enjoy my blackhawk. But, it's not for everyone.

Feel free to PM me with any questions.

[undertaker]

I would buy donzi182003 friends boat GREAT PRICE :eek:


Undertaker :bonk:

[slendzion]

Thats expensive for a 96. I have afriend who has a 2003 22 with a 496 mag ho and he wants 35k to give you an example. With a loadmaster tandem trailer with brakes. 2.5K value.
Does said friend still have the boat for sale, are there pics available, is it advertised anywhere and what part of town is he in.
Thanks Again!

[blackhawk]

Oh yeah, I also sold mine with an extra set of props!!! I think I did give mine away! :rolleyes:

[slendzion]

Oh yeah, I also sold mine with an extra set of props!!! I think I did give mine away! :rolleyes:
Hey Blackhawk, how do they handle as far as cornering at higher speeds with the surface drives, squirly? or pretty good?

[blackhawk]

I wouldn't say squirly, but it definitly doesn't corner like it's on rails. The boat didn't really "bite" in the corners unless you dropped a lot of tab and even then it would skip.

[TheFees]

Hello, I'm a long time boater and a avid Donzi fan and finally pulling the trigger. I've had ski boats and old Chris Cfrafts all my life and need input on my two choices, a 1994 22 w/454 carberated (18,900.00 ) or a 1986 18 w/350 mag (13,900.00). I'll be boating on small inlands and Lk St Clair, so any input is helpfull. Also whats the years to stay away from?I have a 1987 Classic 18 350 Mag and it is in great shape. I'm not into yeah this, and boo that, rather I am into yeah this, and yeah that. I wish I had one of each. My original dream was to have a Donzi classic, and a 30 or 32-foot fly bridge cruiser that slept 6.

The thing I love about the 18 is how it dances across the water. The ballet moves this boat makes, without any modifications, is the greatest rush you could ever expect to get out of a boat. I went out on a 1972 a long time ago, and the ride home in the 911 Porsche was boring in comparison. I knew I had to have one. Five years later, I got one. Can I say that it is better than a 22 ? Not really. Do I love the way it moves through the water, and does unbelievable things in rough water? Yes.
When I see a couple of 32-foot ocean racers with twin big blocks roaring through, I'm off on the chase. I catch up to them, and want to race. Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't. The extra umph that really gets me going is the rush of running alongside of them. That is when magic things start to happen, in what I am willing to take on, and what I am not. All the time I have a sense of the limitations; sure enough they catch up to me, as we approach some major cruiser waves, and I know I have to back off. They back off too, but ever so slightly, and are immediately into the throttles again. I wish I could keep up with them. It is those times that I wish I had a slightly larger boat. I know the 22 moves more in that direction. I know a 32-foot boat moves a lot more in that direction.

I have been on a 32' ocean racer, and the ability to go long distances over major water is great, although the ride is not anywhere near as exciting as catching air in the 18. No, not anywhere near it.
There will come a time, that you wish you still had your ski boats, or your Chris Craft, not that you would even consider letting go of your Donzi. The ultimate is to do what Jay Leno has done; he never sold a car, and still has every one of them. A pipe dream for the rest of us.

So what do you do? The 18 has more agility, is rated out of the box, a few miles an hour slower than the 22. My 1987 with the 350 Mercruiser mag does 70. The factory rep said that the OMCs were getting 64.1 with a standard prop, and with a speed prop, 3 miles an hour faster than that, and the Mercruisers, were doing 3 mph faster than that. I ran a boat that was clocked by radar at 70, and we stayed in it for about 5 minutes and you could have tied a string across our bows. Not an inch difference. The 22 out of the box, back then was rated for 72 mph.

The 18 is better than the 22, and the 22 is better than the 18; it just depends upon why. I go out all day, laying into the throttle on the 18. Open it up, dance, loft, and get a rush that I can only describe as adrenalin high, then pull up to the pumps, and lose only 9 gallons of gas. Roaring, nasty, thru hull exhaust, that makes me proud, when I pull up to the big boys, and 70 mph, and still only 9 gallons in a whole day. Maybe someone could input on what the 22 uses. Notwithstanding, even if it is 27 gallons who cares? Where can you get a thrill like this for that kind of money?

My boat is completely unmodified. It is exactly as it was when it left Donzi. All Donzis are the top of the charts. I love them all, old or new. From the rubber raft, to the 130 foot yacht. As long as it is on the water, you can't go wrong.

Whichever way you decide to go with this, you picked a winner. Fortune magazine rated the top 100 products that are made in America, that are the best in their category around the world. They didn't have a category for cars, because another country had us beat, but they had a category for telephones, it was AT&T, and they had a category for boats, it was Donzi and Cigarette. Interesting that their two picks were both Don Aronow creations.

I look at my boats, all glass construction, no paint, the Ferrari leather wrap Momo steering wheel with the Donzi Marine emblem in the center, the use of circuit breakers instead of fuses, the high quality vinyl interior, the German VDO gauges, that fact that they only made 40 of them a year, taking their time, letting the hot glass cool before removing it form the mold, spending the time to make an incredibly thick hull, that could withstand the punches racing offshore holds, the 24 degree dead rise, that gives you unbelievable stability, even in the heaviest chop, the all stainless steel rails, triple plated chrome accessories, and all made with a look that turns heads, and draws attention no matter where you go. It's almost embarrassing.

Yes buy either one, and join the club, and experience the smile, when the cabin cruiser owner asks you after a long day, Catchin any air today?

[GEOO]

Any Donzi is fun. Depends on your needs. I need to get a 22 for the family cruising. And a 18 for thoses fun runs. But then I need a walkaround boat for longer trips out to Block Island 90 miles. (the 18 was fine for that 10 years younger) Most people move from a 16 or 18 up to the 22. I think I'll stick to the 18 for a while longer.
I can't really discribe the feeling you get, but i'm sure you all are familiar with it, when your Donzi is heading in to that 12" chop ,just dancing over the sea with the V8 roaring in the back ground. It's the Donzi GRIN.. :biggrin.: :biggrin.: or passengers :eek:

[gold-n-rod]

My boat is completely unmodified. It is exactly as it was when it left Don Aronow's hands. That is another point, for what it is worth; all Donzis are the top of the charts. Don Aronow was killed in 1987, and to think that he may have touched my boat during construction, gives me a reverence for it. The 1986 you are considering buying, falls into that same category.

Nice post. As an aside, Aronow was long gone from Donzi by the time your boat was built. About 20 years gone.

[dclassic]

Both boats are great fun, just different personalities in my opinion. I tormented over the decision for months myself. I need to get both boats at some point in the future. As others have said, the 18 is smaller and more nimble where the 22 seems bigger and more willing to take rather large water. We purchased a 1996 22 classic a few months back and are very pleased with the boat. As far as pricing there is a big range. If you are fussy, you will probably need to spend more. Most of the boats we looked at were in rough condition, at least for my taste. I looked at a 2003 that looked worse than many mid 80's models! Look at each boat carefully. I ended up with a 96 that looks brand new and I paid well into the mid 20's, just wat the owner was asking. (There are many "not as nice" versions for considerably less money.) Why, because I am fussy, and so was the original owner, no repairs or work needed. I just turned the key and enjoyed. Make sure you inspect carefully and water test to look for problems. Try not to get too wrapped up with the price, when you find the "right" boat just buy it, you will be happy, after all it is a Donzi. I hope my rambling will be of some help.

[BaldEagle]

I just got an 06 18C. Never had a Donzi, and still do have a decent size cruiser. I can go out in the rough stuff on L. MI. and I can assure you it can be nasty and relentless on larger boats too. I have 23 hrs on my 18 and it lives up to it's name "Prop Blast". I have only boated with 22Cs thus far so I'm not sure how I'm doing relative to other 18s. I can tell when were out in 3-4 footers, I am at some disadvantage. To me its a challange and I'm learning what the boat can do, while staying within my limitations. The 22s do seem to handle the higher waves with less effort. In our inland lake chop I have the acceleration and top speed to be very pleased and the 18 is like a fighter jet on a lake full of cargo planes. I can see how one would always think about going bigger, thats basic boater mentality, but it seems you may sacrifice a little of the buzz the larger you go. I would somewhat disagree with the motorcycle analogy. I have a few
scooters including a sporty touring bike but my last purchase was a high perf. cruiser. Smaller, quicker, flashier, a rush to drive. No I won't take the Donzi 18C on a long trip. I'll take the big boat. If this will be your only ride, and you will have passengers, the 22 may be a better choice. For me the Donzi is about the buzz. Kissing off the waves at 3/4 warp speed in the 18 will blur time and distance and the pucker factor will definately take your mind off of the phone bill. There is no disconnect with the water.
Good luck. I don't think you will be disappointed either way you go.
BE

[TheFees]

Nice post. As an aside, Aronow was long gone from Donzi by the time your boat was built. About 20 years gone.
Thank you for complimenting my post. I am by no means a Don Aronow expert. I looked it up on the web before posting, and that is why I said 1987. When you mentioned that he had already been gone for 20 years, I immediately checked on it again. The first two references I found, and both of them seem to be reliable. One of them is the editorial review of Speed Kills posted on Amazon. Out of respect, I am not trying to make an issue out of this. If anyone has more information about this if it wrong, please let me know. The following are copy and pastes from the web. Thank you.

Don Aronow

He was a close friend of George H. W. Bush. According to the book "George Bush, the Unauthorized Biography," He was murdered by professional killers on February 3, 1987. In the days before his death, he made many personal calls to George H. W. Bush.





From Amazon.com description of the book “Speed Kills” here is a copy and paste;

Editorial Reviews

Book Description
THE LIFE AND DEATH OF THE CIGARETTE BOAT KING

In the Miami of the 1980s, it was the ultimate symbol of power and wealth: the roaring muscle speed boat known as the Cigarette. And the undisputed king of the Cigarette Boat was Don Aronow, the man who built the million-dollar playtoys for presidents, princes and the privileged. He had it all. Then on February 3, 1987, an unknown assailant gunned Aronow down a Miami street, a few hundred yards from his own boatyard. The murder would confound investigators, shock an already crime-weary city, and reveal a dark world of criminality, corruption and violence that existed within the Sunshine State.

[onesubdrvr]

Thank you for complimenting my post. I am by no means a Don Aronow expert. I looked it up on the web before posting, and that is why I said 1987. When you mentioned that he had already been gone for 20 years, I immediately checked on it again. The first two references I found, and both of them seem to be reliable. One of them is the editorial review of Speed Kills posted on Amazon. Out of respect, I am not trying to make an issue out of this. If anyone has more information about this if it wrong, please let me know. The following are copy and pastes from the web. Thank you.

Don Aronow

He was a close friend of George H. W. Bush. According to the book "George Bush, the Unauthorized Biography," He was murdered by professional killers on February 3, 1987. In the days before his death, he made many personal calls to George H. W. Bush.





From Amazon.com description of the book “Speed Kills” here is a copy and paste;

Editorial Reviews

Book Description
THE LIFE AND DEATH OF THE CIGARETTE BOAT KING

In the Miami of the 1980s, it was the ultimate symbol of power and wealth: the roaring muscle speed boat known as the Cigarette. And the undisputed king of the Cigarette Boat was Don Aronow, the man who built the million-dollar playtoys for presidents, princes and the privileged. He had it all. Then on February 3, 1987, an unknown assailant gunned Aronow down a Miami street, a few hundred yards from his own boatyard. The murder would confound investigators, shock an already crime-weary city, and reveal a dark world of criminality, corruption and violence that existed within the Sunshine State.
Sorry,....

Aronow was around until his murder in 1987, but not with Donzi. He founded Donzi, and it was under his ownership until 1965 when he sold to the Chisolm family, meanwhile, Don went on to other ventures. ie Formula, Apache, Cigarette, and whatever else, but Donzi was the first.

Wayne

ps For Donzi ownership information, check out http://www.donzi.net/dlist/ it's pretty accurate.

[TheFees]

Sorry,....

Aronow was around until his murder in 1987, but not with Donzi. He founded Donzi, and it was under his ownership until 1965 when he sold to the Chisolm family, meanwhile, Don went on to other ventures. ie Formula, Apache, Cigarette, and whatever else, but Donzi was the first.

Wayne

ps For Donzi ownership information, check out http://www.donzi.net/dlist/ it's pretty accurate. Thanks for the update. I was just coming back from visiting another site where they said he sold it to Teleflex Corporation in 1963. Regardless, I get what you are saying. I misunderstood that he was alive until 1987 but got away from the boats over 20 years earlier. Thanks for the information and for the link.
I wouldn't feel comfortable letting my prior post stand with misinformation, so I will have to go back and edit it.

[Marlin275]

Sorry,....

Aronow was around until his murder in 1987, but not with Donzi. He founded Donzi, and it was under his ownership until 1965 when he sold to the Chisolm family, meanwhile, Don went on to other ventures. ie Formula, Apache, Cigarette, and whatever else, but Donzi was the first.

Formula was first.

At age 33, Don Aronow moved to Florida after prospering as a real estate developer in New Jersey. In 1962 his first raceboat was designed by Jim Wynne. In collaboration with designers Walt Walters & Wynne, Aronow founded the Formula Boat Company and launched the Formula 233 to win the Miami-Nassau race. In 1963 he launched a 27' Formula designed by Dick Bertram and Peter Gurke.
The first DONZI, a 28 foot, deep-vee was designed by Jim Wynne in 1964. He won Miami-Nassau in 1965 but sold the company in 1966. He then started Magnum Marine with his own designs. Aronow died in 1987.

(all the above was lifted from Henry Rasmussen's book MUSCLE BOATS published by Motorbooks Intl. in 1988)

[Rootsy]

toss another twist on this...

there is a lot of difference between an 18 and a 22.. and a 16 and an 18 for that matter... i've been in all 3, enough to know the differences fairly well... you said you are gonna boat on inland lakes and St. Clair mostly... which are you going to do more of? most of the inland lakes in southern michigan are much better suited to the 18... st. clair, the 22 definitely wins. I've boated in 3 footers in the 16... and the next day i feel like i went 2 round with tyson... the 18 is not much better in this regard... it is just too short to stay on top of the waves at any appreciable speed without getting a lot of airtime.. and if you chug along you get beat to death... the 22 will ride the wave peaks better because of the longer span. on longer trips the 22 is much more comfortable and gets you out of the wind better than an 18. the 22 also seats 5 fairly comfortably... whereas 5 in the 18 is a sardine can... you also have more storage in a 22...

as far as performance goes... out of the box... with the best powerplants in each the 18 and 22 speedwise are not too far apart.. maybe a couple of mph.. big deal... the difference is... the BBC is gonna eat more fuel than the SBC... and if you ever really want to "upgrade" part in the future the SBC is cheaper and in the 18 you ge tmore performance bang for the buck IMHO...

lastly.. what kind of tow vehicle do you have... and do you plan to leave it in the water or tow a lot? the 18 is a heckuva lot easier to tow, you can handle it with a mid sized truck with ease... and you can fit it in most garages whereas the 22 takes a good 30 foot garage to get her tucked in and out of the way... and though it can be done... it'll tax a half ton vehicle... launching a 22 in a shallow ramp on a lake is not very fun... the 18 drafts less water and is agan better suited to smaller lakes with shallower, shorter ramps...

So... in my opinion you need to figure out where MOST of your boating is going to be done and how you are going to store and move the boat... You also need to weigh your passenger and storage needs...

if i lived close to the big lakes (great lakes) vs inland where i have mudpuddles i'd have a 22 most definitely.. but since i mostly boat on 1200 acre and smaller lakes it does not pay to have an aircraft carrier sittin on the trailer in the yard...

my 2 cents...

J

[slendzion]

Thanks for all the great input! As far as where when and how much I'll use the boat, its all over the board. I'll use it on my small inland lake (its only 4' longer than my ski boat) during the week and on Lk St. Clair on the weekends (used sort of as a dinghy to the big boat) and will probably trailer it to other large lakes up north, Torch, Charlevois, Mullet etc. So having said that we're going with the 22' just because it covers all the bases and I also have this SICK feeling I'm going to like the offshore style boating and eventually end up selling all three boats and going into something of the 38' - 42' offshore.........the wife doesn't know yet but I DO know myself, I'm Steve and I'm a boataholic.

[slendzion]

By the way, I've been looking at getting a new mooring cover for a 22' classic and most brocheres list the standard cover for a 1993 - 1995's but when I called them they said the 1991 & 92 models have to be custom made??? Whats the differance in these models??? windshields, o/a lgt.? width??? any advice?

[DonziEd]

I have a 1987 Classic 18 350 Mag and it is in great shape. I'm not into yeah this, and boo that, rather I am into yeah this, and yeah that. I wish I had one of each. My original dream was to have a Donzi classic, and a 30 or 32-foot fly bridge cruiser that slept 6.

The thing I love about the 18 is how it dances across the water. The ballet moves this boat makes, without any modifications, is the greatest rush you could ever expect to get out of a boat. I went out on a 1972 a long time ago, and the ride home in the 911 Porsche was boring in comparison. I knew I had to have one. Five years later, I got one. Can I say that it is better than a 22 ? Not really. Do I love the way it moves through the water, and does unbelievable things in rough water? Yes.
When I see a couple of 32-foot ocean racers with twin big blocks roaring through, I'm off on the chase. I catch up to them, and want to race. Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't. The extra umph that really gets me going is the rush of running alongside of them. That is when magic things start to happen, in what I am willing to take on, and what I am not. All the time I have a sense of the limitations; sure enough they catch up to me, as we approach some major cruiser waves, and I know I have to back off. They back off too, but ever so slightly, and are immediately into the throttles again. I wish I could keep up with them. It is those times that I wish I had a slightly larger boat. I know the 22 moves more in that direction. I know a 32-foot boat moves a lot more in that direction.

I have been on a 32' ocean racer, and the ability to go long distances over major water is great, although the ride is not anywhere near as exciting as catching air in the 18. No, not anywhere near it.
There will come a time, that you wish you still had your ski boats, or your Chris Craft, not that you would even consider letting go of your Donzi. The ultimate is to do what Jay Leno has done; he never sold a car, and still has every one of them. A pipe dream for the rest of us.

So what do you do? The 18 has more agility, is rated out of the box, a few miles an hour slower than the 22. My 1987 with the 350 Mercruiser mag does 70. The factory rep said that the OMCs were getting 64.1 with a standard prop, and with a speed prop, 3 miles an hour faster than that, and the Mercruisers, were doing 3 mph faster than that. I ran a boat that was clocked by radar at 70, and we stayed in it for about 5 minutes and you could have tied a string across our bows. Not an inch difference. The 22 out of the box, back then was rated for 72 mph.

The 18 is better than the 22, and the 22 is better than the 18; it just depends upon why. I go out all day, laying into the throttle on the 18. Open it up, dance, loft, and get a rush that I can only describe as adrenalin high, then pull up to the pumps, and lose only 9 gallons of gas. Roaring, nasty, thru hull exhaust, that makes me proud, when I pull up to the big boys, and 70 mph, and still only 9 gallons in a whole day. Maybe someone could input on what the 22 uses. Notwithstanding, even if it is 27 gallons who cares? Where can you get a thrill like this for that kind of money?

My boat is completely unmodified. It is exactly as it was when it left Donzi. All Donzis are the top of the charts. I love them all, old or new. From the rubber raft, to the 130 foot yacht. As long as it is on the water, you can't go wrong.

Whichever way you decide to go with this, you picked a winner. Fortune magazine rated the top 100 products that are made in America, that are the best in their category around the world. They didn't have a category for cars, because another country had us beat, but they had a category for telephones, it was AT&T, and they had a category for boats, it was Donzi and Cigarette. Interesting that their two picks were both Don Aronow creations.

I look at my boats, all glass construction, no paint, the Ferrari leather wrap Momo steering wheel with the Donzi Marine emblem in the center, the use of circuit breakers instead of fuses, the high quality vinyl interior, the German VDO gauges, that fact that they only made 40 of them a year, taking their time, letting the hot glass cool before removing it form the mold, spending the time to make an incredibly thick hull, that could withstand the punches racing offshore holds, the 24 degree dead rise, that gives you unbelievable stability, even in the heaviest chop, the all stainless steel rails, triple plated chrome accessories, and all made with a look that turns heads, and draws attention no matter where you go. It's almost embarrassing.

Yes buy either one, and join the club, and experience the smile, when the cabin cruiser owner asks you after a long day, Catchin any air today?

9 Gal all day in a 18 - you must have a 4 cylinder in her. :cool:
Any small block for example the 350 MAG with 300 hp will burn 9 - 12 gal per hour at approx 3200 - 3500 RPM's.

22 classic with a big block 454 will burn 12 - 17 gal per hour @ 3200 - 3500 RPM's.

[olredalert]

--------The Chisholm brothers get far too little adulation in the DONZI story as Don constantly overshadows them. This is as it should be because Don was the visionary, but they have a legacy as well. Almost all the truly collectable DONZIs out there were designed during the Chisholms stewardship. The only one I can think of that wasnt was the bench-seat Hornet, of course a true collectable!!! John and Tim Chisholm were smart enough not to change the basic formula, ie; hull design, and yet add a bunch of excitement over the years with models like the X18, Criterion and Corsican. Ive probably forgotten several others but you get the idea.
--------Don A. was a flamboyant, extremely outgoing guy who had a bit of money, knew what he wanted and could drive a boat better, and seemingly take more punishment than anyone in the world. The Chisholm brothers were a pair of quiet, unassuming guys also with a few bucks who knew how to extend a winning streak. I have always felt that a good book could be written about the "Chisholm era" of DONZI. It wouldnt be full of trophies, but would be full of thousands of happy customers, who all probably got more than they wanted............Bill S

[blackhawk]

--------The Chisholm brothers get far too little adulation in the DONZI story as Don constantly overshadows them. This is as it should be because Don was the visionary, but they have a legacy as well. Almost all the truly collectable DONZIs out there were designed during the Chisholms stewardship. The only one I can think of that wasnt was the bench-seat Hornet, of course a true collectable!!! John and Tim Chisholm were smart enough not to change the basic formula, ie; hull design, and yet add a bunch of excitement over the years with models like the X18, Criterion and Corsican. Ive probably forgotten several others but you get the idea.
--------Don A. was a flamboyant, extremely outgoing guy who had a bit of money, knew what he wanted and could drive a boat better, and seemingly take more punishment than anyone in the world. The Chisholm brothers were a pair of quiet, unassuming guys also with a few bucks who knew how to extend a winning streak. I have always felt that a good book could be written about the "Chisholm era" of DONZI. It wouldnt be full of trophies, but would be full of thousands of happy customers, who all probably got more than they wanted............Bill S

I remember seeing a documentary on Don that aired on the history channel I believe. They were interviewing all kinds of people that knew Don very well. Many stated that Don always surrounded himself with the best boat builders in the world and he was the "businessman" part of the equation. They said he would start a company and once demand was high he would sell the company and then open another nearby(like accross the street :)). Then of course the demand would shift toward his new company. And one time he sold a company(can't remember which one) and anything that wasn't in the contrtact he took, including all the engines for the boats! LOL :biggrin:

[mattyboy]

olered very true on the Chisholms
I think off Don as the Babe Ruth of offshore here's why

Babe didn't hit the first home run, the last home run didn't hit the most but hit enuff to put the home run and his sport on the map, Babe had a larger than life aura around him, super human tough guy, party boy, ladies man, every boy and man wanted to be him
you say baseball or home run everyone knows the babe
but Babe also was surrounded by some pretty good players too namely murders row

Don
had the same effect on powerboating didn't build the first, didn't build the last, didn't build the fastest, but surrounded himself with good people and had that aura around him too say powerboat every thinks of Don A
he built boats people remember and put offshore powerboat racing on the map

[TheFees]

9 Gal all day in a 18 - you must have a 4 cylinder in her. :cool:
Any small block for example the 350 MAG with 300 hp will burn 9 - 12 gal per hour at approx 3200 - 3500 RPM's.

22 classic with a big block 454 will burn 12 - 17 gal per hour @ 3200 - 3500 RPM's. With the tank topped off full, I drop it in and go out all day long. I do that 4 times, if I make long days out of it, on the 4th day, at the end of the day, I run out of gas. The 42 gallon tank is good for 4 uses. I have checked this by using it for a whole day, and filling it up at the end of the day, and it topped off at 9 gallons. It is a completely stock 350 mag 270hp. I've had the boat for 16 years, not a question about it. The standard 350 came with 260hp, the mag with 270, and their was a 300hp option offered, and according to Donzi themselves at the time, that included a larger exhaust manifold, a slightly hotter cam, and larger jets in the quadrajet, all of which equals more fuel consumption.

The funny thing is that I run the boat any way I want during this time, wide open or cruise. The quadrajet has tiny primarys, and I think the secondarys don't open up until it gets above 2800 RPMs, but I don't scrimp, I run it wherever I want to.
I guess their is so many variables involved, that it would be hard to determine exactly what usage it is; wide open times, cruising times, idling times, etc, but all I know is that I go out for a full day of boating, and when it is all said and done, it fills up on 9 gallons per day (roughly). You have to allow for anchor times, eating lunch, or swimming etc.

[blackhawk]

With the tank topped off full, I drop it in and go out all day long. I do that 4 times, if I make long days out of it, on the 4th day, at the end of the day, I run out of gas. The 42 gallon tank is good for 4 uses. I have checked this by using it for a whole day, and filling it up at the end of the day, and it topped off at 9 gallons. It is a completely stock 350 mag 270hp. I've had the boat for 16 years, not a question about it. The standard 350 came with 260hp, the mag with 270, and their was a 300hp option offered, and according to Donzi themselves at the time, that included a larger exhaust manifold, a slightly hotter cam, and larger jets in the quadrajet, all of which equals more fuel consumption.

The funny thing is that I run the boat any way I want during this time, wide open or cruise. The quadrajet has tiny primarys, and I think the secondarys don't open up until it gets above 2800 RPMs, but I don't scrimp, I run it wherever I want to.
I guess their is so many variables involved, that it would be hard to determine exactly what usage it is; wide open times, cruising times, idling times, etc, but all I know is that I go out for a full day of boating, and when it is all said and done, it fills up on 9 gallons per day (roughly). You have to allow for anchor times, eating lunch, or swimming etc.

Hey you had a great first reply! Made me want to get out and go boating and run some 22-26' boats! Nothing feels better than having bigger ballz and pulling away from a bigger boat! :D

But DonziEd is right, a 250-300hp small block will burn about 9-12 gallons per hour at 3000-3500 rpm and 20-25 per hour at WFO. Sounds like you do a lot of boating like me! 8 hours on the sandbar and a few 20 minute WFO hell rides here and there!!! :D

[TheFees]

Hey you had a great first reply! Made me want to get out and go boating and run some 22-26' boats! Nothing feels better than having bigger ballz and pulling away from a bigger boat! :D

But DonziEd is right, a 250-300hp small block will burn about 9-12 gallons per hour at 3000-3500 rpm and 20-25 per hour at WFO. Sounds like you do a lot of boating like me! 8 hours on the sandbar and a few 20 minute WFO hell rides here and there!!! :D Blackhawk thank you for your reply. I got a charge about the sandbar, I ran into one last weekend, and had to sit for a half hour. Not because I couldn't easily push off of it, after lifting the outdrive all the way up to trailer position. (With the motor off of course) but because I had to let the motor cool before I could start it. It was running wide open when I hit it. I immediately dropped it back into idle forward position. My battery is brand new 3 weeks old. Is anyone else experiencing that? Not being able to start it when stalled at full throttle and fully hot? I figure the metal is exapanded because it is hot. After cooling to down below 150 by the gauge, it starts again. Before that, I get turn stop, turn stop, you know a verrry slow, rrror rrrror. After it cools, it turns faster and starts. I dare not force the issue, and quickly run the battery down. In 16 years I have always found this to be the case. When running it normally, and doing regular cruising speed, then slowing down, and shutting it off, it starts right up.
Next topic, back to the fuel consumption. Anybody else out there with an 18 that is unmodified? What kind of daily fuel are you using? Anybody with a modified one, that has a before and after fuel consumption picture they can share?
By the way Blackhawk, your video link was enjoyable. I have some video on tape VHS that I have to convert to digital. Thanks again for your reply.

[BUIZILLA]

Fees, I have the exact same year boat you do, same engine package too....

100% stock as a dead rock, might even still have the original belts and hoses on it...

for sure, it has the original carb, and fuel pump, and fuel tank, and fuel gauge..

it's a pretty clean boat, if I say so myself...

the most I have run it in ONE day, was about 160 miles... about 6-7 mpg average

my 18 uses about 5.5gph @ 3200 rpm, which is roughly 42 mph, My Minx with the same 270 Mag used about 6 - 6.5 gph at 3200 rpm.

it damm sure uses more than 9 gallons a DAY....

my Scarab cruises at 32 gph @ 4500 rpm with clamp-on's... that's about $90 per hour, not including oil... my last fill-up was $543.57 for 183 gallons, not including oil..

just reporting the facts

Jim

[Cuda]

You should split the difference, and get the best lines on a boat that Donzi ever built..................A Minx! :)

[MOP]

The estimate of 9-12 is very high, at 1K I ran the Beast out of gas at 103 miles and burned exactly 36 gallons running mostly at 3500 that is 7.2 GPH. The 383 in it now is a mild one and does suck more fuel then the old engine, the 300 Tempest that was in it was just above 6 same type of running. I just spoke to Mad Dad the fellow that bought my Temest engine he raved about how cheap it was to run, Small Blocks Rule when it comes to fuel economy! Don't look back we are right behind you, wait for us we can afford the :beer: !

Phil

[markdonzi]

Well if you can not decide between an 18 and a 22 do what I did buy a Minx 20 feet!!!!!

markdonzi :propeller :beer:

[Pismo]

or a 21 GT with it's 8' beam.

[blackhawk]

The estimate of 9-12 is very high, at 1K I ran the Beast out of gas at 103 miles and burned exactly 36 gallons running mostly at 3500 that is 7.2 GPH. The 383 in it now is a mild one and does suck more fuel then the old engine, the 300 Tempest that was in it was just above 6 same type of running. I just spoke to Mad Dad the fellow that bought my Temest engine he raved about how cheap it was to run, Small Blocks Rule when it comes to fuel economy! Don't look back we are right behind you, wait for us we can afford the :beer: !

Phil

Phil, your boat only does 20 mph at 3500 rpm? :confused:

[joseph m. hahnl]

[QUOTE=TheFees] It is a completely stock 350 mag 270hp. I've had the boat for 16 years, not a question about it. The standard 350 came with 260hp, the mag with 270, and their was a 300hp option offered, and according to Donzi themselves at the time, that included a larger exhaust manifold, a slightly hotter cam, and larger jets in the quadrajet, all of which equals more fuel consumption.

QUOTE]

My minx's has the 350 mag. with a Webber A.K.A. Eddlebrock.It apears to be a
turn key motor that was put in the boat. yet the serial #'s on the block are for a 1988 same year as the boat. it has a high rise intake manifold that has the
throat slotted. It also has the roller lifters .It is unclear to me if it is a 270HP or a 300HP. but i estimate the fuel consumption at 5 gal an hour in fresh water.
as far as 18 or 22 . As all of us know you need to go with your heart. you got to simply ask yourself what do you like.
Comming back from the run at LG I was running with both an 18 and a 22.
thru the chop. "Both where equally behind me".:rlol:

joe

[MOP]

Phil, your boat only does 20 mph at 3500 rpm? :confused:

I had the Blackhawk on it, it was doing 41@3500. That was almost full days running including two stops in Canada lunch in Abay and an hour or so at the locks, Hmmm 20MPH was the average for the day and 2.86 MPG! Not to bad considering the average bigger boats makes about 1MPG.

Phil

[blackhawk]

I had the Blackhawk on it, it was doing 41@3500. That was almost full days running including two stops in Canada lunch in Abay and an hour or so at the locks, Hmmm 20MPH was the average for the day and 2.86 MPG! Not to bad considering the average bigger boats makes about 1MPG.

Phil

Which would mean you are burning 7.2 gph at an average of 20 mph, not at 3500 rpm. No way you are only burning 7.2 gph at 3500. I wish that's all they burned! :D

[blackhawk]

Being conservative and using those same numbers you're at approximately 14 gph @ 3500rpm. Still better than a big block! :D

[boatnut]

To kick in a little physics, generally speaking the fuel consumed by a diesel engine is 1 GPH per 18 HP (or HPx.055=GPH). A four stroke gasoline engine is not as effiecient (the difference in the BTUs in gas vs diesel) and it consumes about 1 GPH per 10 HP (or HPx.01=GPH). This includes all the HP wasted in gear train loss etc. This is HP being used, not what the engine is capable of. So if you are using 100 HP for a full hour you will use 10 gals of gas --- maybe more as some engines are not as efficient but never much less. Using 200 HP is about 20 gals per hour. (I used to race an offshore boat with two 300 HP small blocks (Chris Craft marined Z28 blocks)and we averaged 40 GPH which meant we were utilizing about 200 HP per engine.) My 30 years of experience with my 302 Ford powered 18 Donzi has me thinking the boat uses 3 to 4 GPH. What that means is that my usage has a lot of idle time, downtime, dock time, and not a lot of high HP time. I now also run a large diesel boat and the physics (if you measure things accurately) is pretty close. When you look closely at a "full day" of boating, there is not a lot of high rpm minutes, let alone hours. Ed

[blackhawk]

To kick in a little physics, generally speaking the fuel consumed by a diesel engine is 1 GPH per 18 HP (or HPx.055=GPH). A four stroke gasoline engine is not as effiecient (the difference in the BTUs in gas vs diesel) and it consumes about 1 GPH per 10 HP (or HPx.01=GPH). This includes all the HP wasted in gear train loss etc. This is HP being used, not what the engine is capable of. So if you are using 100 HP for a full hour you will use 10 gals of gas --- maybe more as some engines are not as efficient but never much less. Using 200 HP is about 20 gals per hour. (I used to race an offshore boat with two 300 HP small blocks (Chris Craft marined Z28 blocks)and we averaged 40 GPH which meant we were utilizing about 200 HP per engine.) My 30 years of experience with my 302 Ford powered 18 Donzi has me thinking the boat uses 3 to 4 GPH. What that means is that my usage has a lot of idle time, downtime, dock time, and not a lot of high HP time. I now also run a large diesel boat and the physics (if you measure things accurately) is pretty close. When you look closely at a "full day" of boating, there is not a lot of high rpm minutes, let alone hours. Ed

Well if were averaging the whole day of boating the I average about about 2 gph. 9 hours on the sandbar, 1 hour burning 20 gph at WFO = 20 gallons burned over 10 hours! :D

[DonziEd]

The estimate of 9-12 is very high, at 1K I ran the Beast out of gas at 103 miles and burned exactly 36 gallons running mostly at 3500 that is 7.2 GPH. The 383 in it now is a mild one and does suck more fuel then the old engine, the 300 Tempest that was in it was just above 6 same type of running. I just spoke to Mad Dad the fellow that bought my Temest engine he raved about how cheap it was to run, Small Blocks Rule when it comes to fuel economy! Don't look back we are right behind you, wait for us we can afford the :beer: !

Phil

Phil,

If you look at the Merc specs, you will find that a V6 Merc MPI 225 HP @ 3200 to 3500 will burn 6 - 8 gph. The 350 MAG small block V8 will burn 9 - 12 gph @ 3200 to 3500 rpm. I know this is true because I had a crusier with twin V6 Merc and it was about 7 gph per engine @ 3200 rpms. :smash:

[gold-n-rod]

I know this is true because I had a crusier with twin V6 Merc and it was about 7 gph per engine @ 3200 rpms. :smash:

This is a powerplant choice that has always puzzled me? Are there really any advantages to twin v-6's?

Many years ago, I went to look at a 26' Liberator that turned out to have twin V-6's!?!?!? What were they thinking when they spec'd out that combo? :eek:

[DonziEd]

I have some questions about some differences between the 18 & 22.

Does the 18 porpoise like the 22?
The 18 with a 350 MAG - what's the difference between having a Alpha vs Bravo drive? Ride / boat handling . . .?

[boatnut]

I have some questions about some differences between the 18 & 22.

Does the 18 porpoise like the 22?
The 18 with a 350 MAG - what's the difference between having a Alpha vs Bravo drive? Ride / boat handling . . .?

My experience: I have owned two 18's and two 22's, neither 18 porpoised and neither had trim tabs (both had/have Volvo drives). My 1982 22 with a TRS drive BBC did not porpoise, no tabs. My 1997 22 with a Bravo 1 BBC and tabs porpoises and at mid range speeds it is difficult to settle it down.

My opinion: The Alpha-Bravo difference is mainly durability with the Bravo being able to handle higher horsepower and more torque loading unloading as in flying the boat. The TRS is known to be a bullet proof drive. I've heard you have to be more careful with an Alpha. I think with proper consideration they all will work fine. If I was ordering a new boat I would go for the Bravo. A properly priced used boat with an alpha would be OK.

[BUIZILLA]

It doesn't really matter what engine you own, or how efficient you think it is... throttle %, versus rpm, determines GPH.

JH

[MOP]

It really relates to the type of running, I did a 70 mile round trip with the 16. I only made one stop was a business trip I ran 3200 the whole way filled it when done figured out to 3.2 GPH (mild 302 Ford), I could burn just about the same amount of fuel in an afternoon in a heck of a lot less time, moderate throttle for long distances racks up good economy local jazzing around don't.

Phil

[mattyboy]

local jazzing around don't.

Phil

23 skeedoo, cat pajamas,okleedokilee, man you sound like Ned Flanders on mescaline :p you really do speak a different language Calif. has eebonics and we got moppybonics :p :) :rlol:

[blackhawk]

It really relates to the type of running, I did a 70 mile round trip with the 16. I only made one stop was a business trip I ran 3200 the whole way filled it when done figured out to 3.2 GPH (mild 302 Ford), I could burn just about the same amount of fuel in an afternoon in a heck of a lot less time, moderate throttle for long distances racks up good economy local jazzing around don't.

Phil

I agree, an average gph is much different than a specific. I was talking specific gph at a certain rpm. With these low numbers either some of you were talking averages or you need a refresher lesson in algebra from a 12 year old! ;) :beer:

[BUIZILLA]

I agree, an average gph is much different than a specific. I was talking specific gph at a certain rpm. With these low numbers either some of you were talking averages or you need a refresher lesson in algebra from a 12 year old! ;) :beer: Okayyyyyy, i'll bite, I was a math major... but i'm really getting tired of popcorn.

JH

[blackhawk]

Okayyyyyy, i'll bite... but i'm really getting tired of popcorn.

JH

Hah? What? Bite? Popcorn? I'm confused, :confused: but that doesn't take much! :D

[Cuda]

I agree, an average gph is much different than a specific. I was talking specific gph at a certain rpm. With these low numbers either some of you were talking averages or you need a refresher lesson in algebra from a 12 year old! ;) :beer:
Huh? :confused:

[blackhawk]

Huh? :confused:

Average gph - amount of gas used over a period of time. IE: 20 minutes of idle time, 35 minutes at 2500-3500 rpm, 5 minutes at WFO. How much gas was burned in that one hour period?

Specific gph - when a motor is held at a certain rpm, how many gallons per hour will be burned at that rpm.

Make sense? What I was getting at is I think that a few people are using their AVERAGE gph for the day and coming up with lower numbers. Obviously this is all we can do unless we have a guage showing gph. But then they are trying to "tag" an rpm to it. Either they are doing this or they are doing the math incorrectly.

That's all I was trying to say. :D

[Cuda]

Okay, I just wanted to be sure that my algebra was still current.

[blackhawk]

Okay, I just wanted to be sure that my algebra was still current.

We will find out cause there will be a test on Friday! :D