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View Full Version : Watch out for those lifting eyes! Help!



Pismo
08-23-2005, 12:08 PM
I lifted my 22 Classic for the first time today, front eye went fine but the rear eye has pulled about 1inch up. On the interior triangular piece the edges have pulled away from the transom on the lower corners. The bolts have not pulled thru the transom, they look fine. The triangular piece that is bolted to the transom and has a hole in it for the threaded rod from above is bending away from the transom, I can fit my finger behind it now on the corners. It is tight against the transom in the center where the bolts are coming thru the transom. Does anyone have any experience with this?? This is hard to believe that the factory lifting eye is inadequate. The top plate is also bending where the threaded rod comes thru. There also appears to be white stess marks on the welds. It might stay the way it is and be fine or it may keep bending and tear away thru the deck. Any advice please...See pix

Pismo
08-23-2005, 12:12 PM
More......

Pismo
08-23-2005, 12:15 PM
And.......

gcarter
08-23-2005, 12:41 PM
I would say that's a pretty poor design.
Maybe use that as a pattern for a fabricator to reproduce in 3/8" / 1/2" plate.
And 1/2" for sure in the backing plate.
You might want to consider making the backing plate wide enough to include two more bolts outboard of the vertical plates.
Cuda's Minx was a tender in a former life. It has a nicely finished SST outer doubler plate also.

Tony
08-23-2005, 01:45 PM
Not that it helps, unless you're gathering ideas to fabricate a new one, but here is a picture of what they did in 1967 on a 16' Ski Sporter.

Sport
08-23-2005, 02:53 PM
I lifted my 22 Classic for the first time today, front eye went fine but the rear eye has pulled about 1inch up. On the interior triangular piece the edges have pulled away from the transom on the lower corners. The bolts have not pulled thru the transom, they look fine. The triangular piece that is bolted to the transom and has a hole in it for the threaded rod from above is bending away from the transom, I can fit my finger behind it now on the corners. It is tight against the transom in the center where the bolts are coming thru the transom. Does anyone have any experience with this?? This is hard to believe that the factory lifting eye is inadequate. The top plate is also bending where the threaded rod comes thru. There also appears to be white stess marks on the welds. It might stay the way it is and be fine or it may keep bending and tear away thru the deck. Any advice please...See pix

Pismo,

I work for Davit Master and we just checked our catalog to see if we would have something that would fix your problem. Sorry, no dice. Our lifting eyes and hardware are of a different design. I have never seen a backing plate like that one. I have the same tow rope eye on my 26ZX but it was not factory installed, it was aftermarket. That is strange that they put only one lifting eye at the stern. I would call Donzi !

Sport !

Ted Guldemond
08-23-2005, 03:08 PM
Hard to tell from the picture. i Is that bracket tig welded aluminum? On the inside of the welds it looks like there is white chaulky material along a crack in the weld. If it is aluminum I would suspect galvanic corrosion. Probably preventable by use of a grounding strap??

Greg K
08-23-2005, 03:16 PM
Hard to tell from the picture. i Is that bracket tig welded aluminum? On the inside of the welds it looks like there is white chaulky material along a crack in the weld. If it is aluminum I would suspect galvanic corrosion. Probably preventable by use of a grounding strap??
I was thinking the same thing that it appears to be made of aluminum.
I know mine is made of stainless. :smash:

gcarter
08-23-2005, 03:44 PM
Here's the one on the Minx. It's 4" X 4" X 1/2" steel angle w/2 gussets welded in and the rod is mounted in a 1/2" plate welded to the top. I refinished in black powdercoat. Also I changed the 3/4" rod to SST.

MOP
08-23-2005, 04:54 PM
The older bracket like Georges, mine and many others was a far stronger bracket. The new ones look more like they were only intended for towing a skier, one other thing to do when mounting the brackets is to make sure it is sealed inside and outside. My transom was wet at the top from water coming down around the rod and running in between the bracket and the transom. If you need to lift the boat I would have a bracket fabbed like the old style.

Phil

martiniboat
08-23-2005, 05:00 PM
It looks as though it's pulling on quite an angle as well, (as far as I can tell from the pics, which are very helpful by the wayhttp://www.donzi.net/ubb/cool.gif ) which isn't helping the situation.


Aluminum just plain scares me when it comes to lifting lugs, but then again, I'm a 'stainless' type of guy. If you are considering a replacement, I'd be more than happy to help a brother out.:biggrin:

Brian

Pismo
08-23-2005, 05:49 PM
Update!

Removed the old inner lifting plate, it was severly failing, very bent, bolt holes hogged out, cracks. It is made of 1/4" aluminum. Took it to the Donzi dealer and they basically laughed at me because I was using the stock lifting ring. They never use the lifting ring on a 22, they always use the two other eyes on the transom and a strap under the hull at the windshield. Anyhow, they had no replacement/improved setup/etc. They did not even have the stainless bolts in stock. So off to the fabricator. I am having a new 3/8" stainless steel piece fabricated, thicker, better design, bigger, wider, more bolts, etc, pick it up tomorrow, will post pics. Hopefully a good and fast fix to a surprise fairly major problem for me. If it works out and anybody else needs one I can them make more. Let me know. I will let you know first if it works.

boatnut
08-23-2005, 09:40 PM
I am somewhat disturbed that the Donzi dealer would laugh at you using the lifting rings for what they were intended for. I have a '97 22 and it may have a similar design flaw -- these rings were not intended for water skiing as they also have another water ski line attachment on the boat. I would consider this a very serious design flaw as the deck of the boat (or worse) could have been severely damaged as this piece of junk started to fail. I have noticed other things on these "later" Donzis that do not measure up to what Donzis were known for in the earlier years --- a quality boat. My '97 seems to have lots of holes in the deck (for attaching windshield etc.) that are not properly sealed to prevent long-term damage to the balsa coring used in the deck. Possibly they have even set us up for the gas tank corosion problem again??
The wiring under the dash (instruments, stereo etc.) looks like it was installed by an amateur. Well, as you can tell the news about the lifting ring design disturbed me --- Donzi should replace them as the advertise they are there to lift the boat. Ed

rustnrot
08-23-2005, 10:15 PM
The bracket engineer used to design bras.....lift and separate....

I seriously doubt the lawyers let Donzi call them "lifing rings" anymore....regardless of their "intended" strength or not. They are probably now officially called, "decorative ring protuberances".

Lenny
08-23-2005, 10:16 PM
...I think Martini should do a "run" of a couple dozen "REAL" ones... :yes:

That is what I would do if I could weld. Peace of mind, and overbuilt, means a LOT to me.

Moody Blu'
08-23-2005, 10:47 PM
the last time i talked to someone about the lifting rings on a donzi was probably late 90's and they trold me the new ones you cant lift with but you can with the old ones.

Cuda
08-24-2005, 05:02 AM
Cuda's Minx was a tender in a former life. It has a nicely finished SST outer doubler plate also.
It actually has two lifting rings under the deck. It also came with a braided stainless steel lifting harness.

roadtrip se
08-24-2005, 08:32 AM
and I've picked the boat up with the lifting eyes quite a few times.

Sorry to cloud things further, but I think this issue is more about what blend of hardware was utilized on the day they built your particular boat, not that it is a newer Donzi.

Marlin275
08-24-2005, 10:01 AM
Donzi still calls them "lift rings" so they should lift the boat!
Seems you should tell Donzi the problem?

STANDARD EQUIPMENT
5 Year Transferable Hull Warranty
Battery Tray
Battery Switch
Bilge Pump
Bilge Blower
Bow & Stern Eyes - Stainless
Cleats - Stainless (2)
Cockpit Carpet - 40 oz. Marine Grade, Removable
Cockpit Coaming Pads w/Recessed Storage
Cockpit Cover
Cockpit Liner - Fiberglass
Controls - Deluxe Single Lever
Cowl Vents - Deluxe Chrome Plated
Dash - Custom Flush-Mounted Platinum “Monster”Gaffrig Gauges
Dash Receptacle - 12 Volt
Engine Compartment w/Diamond Plate Accents
Exhaust - Thru Transom
Foam Flotation - Closed Cell
Grab Rail - Aft Seat
Horn - Recessed, Electric
Hull & Deck Joint - Chemically Bonded & Glassed
Ignition Safety Switch

Lift Rings - Stainless, Bow & Stern

Lights - Navigation
Prop - Stainless
Seats - Adjustable Bucket
Ski Storage
Ski Tow - Stainless
Steering Wheel - Custom
Trim Tabs
Vinyl - Heavy Duty, Stain-Resistant UV Protected - 32 oz.
Windshield - Plexiglass

olredalert
08-24-2005, 11:21 AM
---------Have been watching this thread with interest. My 1976 Corsican has a lift-ring set-up very similar to Georges. I believe Ill powder-coat mine this winter, George, as that really looks good.
---------My 24 had a similar set-up as well, but I thought better of using it when we repowered the boat (up from twin 4-cyl/Mercs to twin 350/Alpha set-ups). I just didnt like the thought of all that extra weight and one little ring. I strap the stern now when necessary!
---------Im not sure why but I thought some DONZIs had lift-ring brackets that tied into the inner drive housing somehow. That way one would actually be lifting the engine, drive, and hull at the same time. Since I havent seen any mention of that Ill just assume that my memory is suspect once again.........Bill S

Rootsy
08-24-2005, 11:46 AM
fire me a few quick measurements from that thing... i'd love to do a quick FEA and see just how badly stressed that piece is... (it'll literally take me 10 minutes to do the solid model and run it through COSMOS...)

the bracket needs to be boxed further in order to use the existing clamping method (bolt locations)... loading and clamping points are too centralized and the material is too light for the design intent and current stress levels... result is what you see...

J

Chili 18
08-24-2005, 04:51 PM
Hmm Bummer. Lucky it didnt snap!

i used the rings on my 87 when I did the bottom. {with safety stands}

Definitely BItch to Donzi. lifting rings that are "fake???" Don is rolling in is grave...

chili

Pismo
08-24-2005, 08:30 PM
Rootsy,

The plate is 4" x 7" with 3 - 1/2" ss bolts mounted thru the transom. 1/4" aluminum is the material. The triangular top wing where the slot was about 7" out from the transom. The two side stiffeners were 3/8" aluminum with a solid weld. The slot was about 3/4" by 1.5".

Pismo
08-24-2005, 08:35 PM
BTW,

I looked at a 2006 classic and it still had the exact same triangular aluminum piece in the transom attached to the lifting eye, no improvements yet.

DonziDave
08-24-2005, 08:35 PM
That is disturbing that the bracket is so sub-standard....The original intent of the rings is for lifting the boat in and out of a cradle as many were and are used as tenders. My 18C has been hanging from the rings in my boathouse for 19 years with no problems.

Dave

Pismo
08-24-2005, 09:24 PM
I believe the same setup would work fine and a 16c or 18c or maybe even a 22c with small block and alpha drive. When the went up in weight to the big blocks they did not upgrade the lift rings as well. But what about the tranny/TRS setups, those were the heaviest of all. I wouldn't worry on a 16 or 18, they have the exact same piece/ring setup in the transom but the weight is much less. Just watch the ring, if it lifts/moves up and inch or two from the deck then look inside quick.

OKII
08-25-2005, 12:00 AM
the last time i talked to someone about the lifting rings on a donzi was probably late 90's and they trold me the new ones you cant lift with but you can with the old ones.


Again I would hate to cloud things further, or jinx myself but I have a late model '02 with a 496HO and I have had the boat hanging in a boathouse year round since it was dropped in the water. On top of that I live on the Canadian main channel in the 1000 Islands (very busy on any given weekend in the summer) and I am constantly dealing with waves from cruisers, which obvoiusly can cause excessive stress to the eye hooks when raising or lowering the boat. Up to this point havent had any issues. However, after reading this post, I'm sure I will lose a little sleep from now on.. Good luck with the fabrication. I may be heading up there and will try to snap some shots to see what mine looks like..

Scott Pearson
08-25-2005, 05:07 AM
Looks like its not a bracket flaw. Looks like the the boat was lifted wrong. Was it lifted stright up from the bracket? Or was it lifted from an angle to a center point up above? You cant hook to both lifting eyes and then to one point above the boat. It has to be two seprate points that are above both eyes. If it was lifted stright up the bracket would have bent a whole different way. Your marina lifted this boat???

Scott
LGDCC

Pismo
08-25-2005, 09:37 AM
Two separate hoists, lifted slowly, evenly, straight up, no extra weight, 1/2 tank gas, and it simply bent as it was going up, the eye pulled up about 1-2" as I lifted and the triangular piece bent severely (see previous pix). It may have lasted forever as is but.................I just picked up my new fabricated stainless bracket which I installed and it went up beautifully. Will post pix. I will sleep better.

boatnut
08-25-2005, 09:55 AM
The lifting ring is not the issue. The new lightweight bracket is... The older brackets were steel, not aluminum...

"newer" is not the answer either as I have a '97 and the bracket is steel, seems strange that Donzi would utilize different brackets as opposed to having a spec for a standard (strong) bracket and building from that??? It probably is one of the most simple parts on the boat. I guess I will remove my bracket as it needs to be recoated anyway and if it seems to be too light or weak I will have another one fabricated as I intend to lift from it in the future. Most of the complicated stuff in the boat is designed by others (e.g. Mercury) you would think Donzi could get the bracket right by just over designing the strength?? The only thing we are sure of is that you can't trust the Donzi installed bracket to do the job -- some seem to, at least one failed and probably a small percentage of them get tested/used. I guess the front bracket deserves more scutiny also. Ed

boatnut
08-25-2005, 10:01 AM
Two separate hoists, lifted slowly, evenly, straight up, no extra weight, 1/2 tank gas, and it simply bent as it was going up, the eye pulled up about 1-2" as I lifted and the triangular piece bent severely (see previous pix). It may have lasted forever as is but.................I just picked up my new fabricated stainless bracket which I installed and it went up beautifully. Will post pix. I will sleep better.
Great ending!! It would be nice if others could just use your newly designed bracket but I would assume if Donzi used different brackets they might have changed the hole locations (transom holes and deck hole) and each bracket should be custom fitted?? Ed

Lenny
08-25-2005, 10:05 AM
off topic, BUT, I just love the pics of Pearsons Fire-Chicken.

Rootsy
08-25-2005, 12:43 PM
Pismo,

using the measurements you gave me, modeling with 6061 Aluminum construction and the constraints and hole locations given here is what the quick dirty stress analysis shows... basically your FOS is .48... a FOS of 1 means it'll live... i also loaded it at 3500 lb vertically off of the threaded rod, constrained it at the 3 1/2 inch thru holes...

boatnut
08-25-2005, 01:46 PM
Pismo,

using the measurements you gave me, modeling with 6061 Aluminum construction and the constraints and hole locations given here is what the quick dirty stress analysis shows... basically your FOS is .48... a FOS of 1 means it'll live... i also loaded it at 3500 lb vertically off of the threaded rod, constrained it at the 3 1/2 inch thru holes...

Interesting Rootsy, could you with minimal work sub the aluminum with mild steel and with stainless and see what happens to the result (all else equal)?

Pismo
08-26-2005, 07:52 AM
Here is my replacement part, with the bent orignal to compare. Installed it and lifted no problem. I will watch it closely for while.

boatnut
08-26-2005, 09:12 AM
Here is my replacement part, with the bent orignal to compare. Installed it and lifted no problem. I will watch it closely for while.

Are you drilling 4 more holes in the transom? Ed

Pismo
08-26-2005, 11:02 AM
Maybe two in the corners but most likely none.

Pismo
08-26-2005, 08:48 PM
I am still unsatisfied. Looks like I will be drilling two holes at least thru the transom and installing two more thru transom bolts in the corners to hold this new bracket. The three stock bolts are fine but cover less than two square inches of the transom. Not much to spread the load over. The lifting ring is still pulling up about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch as the transom flexes upon lifting. The small flex of the transom is multiplied by the bracket allowing the ring to move so much. You can see and feel the flex in the transom right around the three thru transom bolts and the lower corners of my new plate are pulling away from the transom slightly. Not quite enought to get my fingers under but close. As soon as the load is off, the flex is gone and the bracket lower corners are flat against the transom again. An extra two bolts in the those corners of the new bracket should help, may need four, lets hope not. I am confident the bracket is not flexing anymore (3/8" stainless with braces), the problem has now shifted to the next weakest point, the thru bolt pattern.

boatnut
08-28-2005, 05:25 PM
I was just looking at the bracket in my '97 and I noticed that the two top thru bolts in the drive gimble (mine is a Bravo 1) are right below the lifting ring and the bracket. It would be very easy to fabricate a couple of straps or a small plate to tie the bottom two bolts of the bracket to the top two bolts on the gimble (or another option would be to extend the threaded rod and tie it to the gimbel bolts with an angle bracket). Either way would result in distributing the lifting force between the three holes of the bracket and the drive gimbel that is securely thru-bolted to the transom. It would also result in some of the lifting force getting distributed more directly under the lifting ring and helping to compenstate for the lever arm than now exists and tends to flex the transom. The attachment to the gimble bolts could be via a second nut with the straps/plate locked against the existing nut. It seems rather simple, doesn't require any new holes in the transom, and should add a lot of strength. Does anyone think there would be a problem with attaching to those two bolts (they look substantial, at least 1/2" or more)?

Pismo
08-30-2005, 09:30 AM
I added two more bolts in the corners of the new bracket and it looks good, spread the load out some. Hooking into the transom assem sounds good, it is about 5" below the lifting bracket in my setup. I think my problem is solved for now tho.

Pismo
01-15-2008, 10:28 AM
Update, 2+ summers of hanging, no further problems at all. New bracket worked great. Stock bow eye was fine.