Top Speed on a 22' Classic

[blueliner]

just got in from a great boat ride on a beautiful day in Vancouver. had a couple questions for you long time performance tweakers. i was in glassy conditions no wind and was going 4900 rpm's and 63.1 knots gps. i had my right tab all the way up but had to have my left k-plane in the number 6 position, otherwise the boat would lean to the left. i know this drag was slowing me done but i had to do it otherwise it felt pretty hairy. does anyone know what could be causing this. i was the only one in the boat and had abot 1/2 a tank of fuel. i should be able to go faster but this k-plane is slowing me down. should maybe i have the right one down a little bit, thereby being able to bring the left one up and have less of it in the water. any tips or fixes would be greatly appreciated. won't be long before i think about supercharging. in fact, i already am.

thanks in advance.

[ChromeGorilla]

72 MPH...very nice! yes. When I am WOT on glassy water and I pull the tabs all the way up the boat rides with a slight left hand roll. This is due to the amount of torque on the prop. If you cut back on the throttle quickly you'll feel it roll the other way for a moment. I too have to drop the left tab to lower the right side of the boat . I try to get away with as little tab as possible as yes, it will scrub a little speed.

[blueliner]

73 MPH!!!!!


72 MPH...very nice! yes. When I am WOT on glassy water and I pull the tabs all the way up the boat rides with a slight left hand roll. This is due to the amount of torque on the prop. If you cut back on the throttle quickly you'll feel it roll the other way for a moment. I too have to drop the left tab to lower the right side of the boat . I try to get away with as little tab as possible as yes, it will scrub a little speed.

[MOP]

Nice to see there is someone else that reads nautical speed in knots! 63.1 is great you are running real well.

Phil

[blueliner]

what kind of supercharging or headers could i upgrade w/ to maximize performance and what more can i expect in terms of hp and speed??? i feel the need 2 go faster. i don't really have any issues w/ the mirage it does porpoise at lower speeds but at wot it seems fast, what else would you guys suggest?? is it going to make me faster???

[gcarter]

I would pick the brains of RoadtripSE and Catch 22.
They both have Shorties.
Catch has a Procharger.
RT does 81-83 (I think)
and Catch can hit 89, and he does it with a stock 454, not a 496 or 503.

[blackhawk]

Hmmmm, a "stock" procharged engine? ;)

[gcarter]

Hmmmm, a "stock" procharged engine? ;)
Yep, other than a re-programed FI CPU, it's stock.
Of course I'm speaking of the engine, not the induction system.

[blackhawk]

I think when you supercharge an engine it's no longer "stock". ;)

But I know what you're saying, no internal mods.

[tmdog]

Before you think of SC, you may consider a different prop to cure the torque steer. That would be my major objective. I am sure someone on this site can steer you in the right direction. There has to be other D's in your size and power out there that is propped with minable torque steer.

[undertaker]

Blueliner, Turbo props seem to be the prop of choice for most 22 classic owners, less porpiosing and better all around performance. Poodle is a good resource for Turbo props and brain picking :biggrin: I plan on getting a Turbo for my 05 22 classic as soon as the money tree grows a little bigger :biggrin: :biggrin:

As a side note you have kplanes on your classic do you have a pic of the dash with the mech. indicators location, I am planning on adding tab indicators and am curious as to where they installed the indicators. Thanks in advance. :biggrin:

Undertaker :boat:

[ChromeGorilla]

I like my 25P mirage plus. I have no complaints. I would like to try a 26P TXP......Poodle look for my order next month..... :yes:

[olredalert]

-------73mph is pretty darn good, but as fast as it can go is never fast enough! I think Blueliners 22 would be the perfect candidate for that 600hp/496 Tyler Crockett had for sale a while back. No huffer, no turbo, just pure horsepower!!!!!!..............Bill S

[blueliner]

how much is one looking to spend to supercharge their engine??? how much faster will i go??? are headers a inexpensive way to increase horsepower/top speed( i see that headers can give you an extra 65 hp as well as improve fuel economy, but at that speed who really cares about mpg), or is supercharging the way to go???

[blueliner]

they installed them under the throttle control, down by your knee. not where i would have put them because you have to look down, but i guess the dash is pretty full on the aronow edition and there really wasn't any room.

Blueliner, Turbo props seem to be the prop of choice for most 22 classic owners, less porpiosing and better all around performance. Poodle is a good resource for Turbo props and brain picking :biggrin: I plan on getting a Turbo for my 05 22 classic as soon as the money tree grows a little bigger :biggrin: :biggrin:

As a side note you have kplanes on your classic do you have a pic of the dash with the mech. indicators location, I am planning on adding tab indicators and am curious as to where they installed the indicators. Thanks in advance. :biggrin:

Undertaker :boat:

[ChromeGorilla]

That has got to be the stupidest location for indicators of any type. Way to go Donzi. :rolleyes: Thats BS. They coulda found a better spot than that.

[Pismo]

Blue,

What engine do you have? Mufflers on the tailpipes? Many 22s have mufflers built into the tailpipes. I am not sure why these are so common on 22s with switchable exhaust, anyhow they will cost you 1-2mph. Headers will gain you a little HP, the best like CMI or KE will need you to repro your ECU (if you have one) or re-jet. Stainless marine or Imco types will just bolt on, maintain your switchable exhaust but give you little if any gains. To get big noticeable gains you need to add a SC or get into the heads/cam/etc.

[blueliner]

i know... what a stupid spot to put them. i guess maybe i should have been more pro-active in telling them where i wanted them. i figured they do this for a living and would put them in a desirable place. to be honest, i only really look at them when i first head out, after that it is a feel thing or a curiousity thing at best. with the deadheads floating in the water in bc, the come up on you real quick at 60+ mph and looking down at some gauge could be costly. just got off the procharger website and my mouth is watering!!!!!!!!!! do you know how much these systems roughly cost. i will call them monday, but just wondering if anyone knew off hand.

That has got to be the stupidest location for indicators of any type. Way to go Donzi. :rolleyes: Thats BS. They coulda found a better spot than that.

[Ed Donnelly]

Whipples go for around $7K, and the Prochargers are around $6K, both with intercoolers. You can shop around for used at about half price. Check OSO.
I got my procharger from a board member and the price was so low, I am embarrassed to tell. The supercharger had even been rebuilt by Procharger before I got it..........Ed

[Dregsz]

Nice speeds. Now get rid of the Mirage. Next up, we need to get you into a naturally aspirated 650HP engine.. The biggest issue is how to ship it to ya :eek: :eek: :D :D[/QUOTE]


I can build a 725 hp 572 and drive it up.
=)

[Barry Phillips]

My 22 leans slightly also, so I need to drag the left tab to correct it. The question is how much. How much correction depends on load, wind, prop torque, etc. What I have noticed on my boat is the left tabs hydraulic ram is mounted a little lower than the right tab. In the full up position the right tab is slightly up angle relative to the bottom as apposed to the left tab, which is level to the bottom. Considering I have to run this tab in the slightly down position anyway, I do not miss-matched tab angle installation is creating my problem, but it would have been nice if the guy at Donzi, who installed my tabs would have measured a little more carefully.

[undertaker]

That has got to be the stupidest location for indicators of any type. Way to go Donzi. :rolleyes: Thats BS. They coulda found a better spot than that.



DITTO, I will NOT be installing mine there :bonk: :banghead:


Undertaker :shades:

[undertaker]

they installed them under the throttle control, down by your knee. not where i would have put them because you have to look down, but i guess the dash is pretty full on the aronow edition and there really wasn't any room.


Thanks Blueliner for the pic. Good luck with the more hp decision.

Undertaker :cool!:

[blueliner]

thanks for all the info. know what about adding external hydraulic steering. what kits (name brands) are you folks using. if i get my boat supercharged, i would think external steering is necessary. where to look and what kind to buy. i am new at this, so any help of which places have the best prices and service for superchargers and steering kits would be great. how is cpperformance??? are there any problems w/ supercharging your engine????

[ChromeGorilla]

If you run 3lbs or less of boost you SHOULD be ok. SHOULD. If you you run anything higher the 496's bottom end is the weak point. A great place for info on supercharging a 496HO is www.hotboat.net A west coast boating forum primarily but there are a substantial # of people over there with SC 496 motors. As far a whipple goes, nice product, but good luck getting a new one. Extremely back ordered. Over 1 year I believe. They are not getting the SC's from Lysholm (sp?) quick enough. Lysholm supplies Ford, Mercury Marine and Mercedes Benz to name a few.

[RickSE]

Blue, How much drive trim are you running with those speeds?

My boat will run dead flat at WOT with no tabs and the drive 1/4 way up. I'd run both tabs down together to the 6 or 7 mark and get it running flat at speed, 60 or so. Open her up with throttle and drive trim then pull both tabs all the way up together in one motion. You may see a little chine walk in the upper 60's but just drive through it. I reverse this process when slowing down to keep the boat settled. Mine has a funny little dance it does when trimmed up at WOT. It's not really chine walking or porpoise and I actually get a kick out of it. I do have external steering though so mine may act a little different.

I put my mechanical tab indicators on the right side of the steering wheel next to the switch panel. There is really no other place to put indicators on a newer 22 dash with monster gauges. The location I used was a little tricky since the dash has some curvature in this area, but it's doable and very visible while driving. I'll post a picture tonight.

[blueliner]

i have been pulling the drive up as far as i can until i feel the chine walk and then i back it off, one click and she settles down. the thing is the boat leans to the left if i don't have the left tab down at number 6. as soon as i try to raise it the boat starts leaning to the left. others have suggested that prop torque is what is causing this sensation. it sucks cuz i know i can get more out of her if that tab was up. any suggestions?? say hello to your dad( marty) for me. the drive trim indicator is at 3-4.

Blue, How much drive trim are you running with those speeds?

My boat will run dead flat at WOT with no tabs and the drive 1/4 way up. I'd run both tabs down together to the 6 or 7 mark and get it running flat at speed, 60 or so. Open her up with throttle and drive trim then pull both tabs all the way up together in one motion. You may see a little chine walk in the upper 60's but just drive through it. Mine has a funny little dance it does when trimmed up at WOT. It's not really chine walking or porpoise and I actually get a kick out of it. I do have external steering though so mine may act a little different.

I put my mechanical tab indicators on the right side of the steering wheel next to the switch panel. There is really no other place to put indicators on a newer 22 dash with monster gauges. The location I used was a little tricky since the dash has some curvature in this area, but it's doable and very visible while driving. I'll post a picture tonight.

[RickSE]

Sounds good on the drive.

Your neutral spot on the tabs is probably between the 4 & 5 marks. This is where the tab is parallel with the bottom of the boat. If you can get up above this mark then you're good to go all the way up. Mine has a big boost in speed when it passes through this point and the tab(s) loose contact with the water. If it's still running flat when I hit this point then I know I can go all the way up. It took me 1-years worth of seat time in this boat before I felt comfortable enough to run trimmed up at WOT with no tabs, especially with passengers.

At speeds below 65-MPH though I do need tabs for a comfortable ride and more port tab for sure to counteract the left side lean.

I'd try first with the tab adjustment being the last thing you do. I'd move both tabs together in tandem once it's running flat. Maybe walking them up slowly in small bumps or if this doesn't work then all in one motion. I pull mine up all in one motion. These boats do need a little time to settle when a trim or power change is made.

If this doesn't work then maybe try the same process with less drive trim then lift the boat with the trim as the last step.

Try the same stuff with more weight or people in the boat. Two more people won't affect the speed much.

If none of this works then I guess a prop change.

Like most have said it may be the Mirage. The lean is definitely from the prop torque. My Mirage is lab finished which may lessen the torque steer.

[BUIZILLA]

IMO, I would NOT waste any money for just 3 #'s of boost........

JH

[undertaker]

I plan on calibrating my drive and trim tabs, meaning when boat is on trailer run the drive up until the cavitation plate is level with bottom of boat (neutral) and mark this setting on my drive trim gauge, anything above that mark is positive anything below is neg. I'll do the same with my trim tabs once I get indicators. I think doing this will help me drive the boat safer and faster :biggrin: .

Undertaker :cartman:

PS And I also plan on getting a turbo prop :biggrin: :biggrin:

[undertaker]

:bonk:
thanks for all the info. know what about adding external hydraulic steering. what kits (name brands) are you folks using. if i get my boat supercharged, i would think external steering is necessary. where to look and what kind to buy. i am new at this, so any help of which places have the best prices and service for superchargers and steering kits would be great. how is cpperformance??? are there any problems w/ supercharging your engine????


Look into the Raylar kit for the 496 MAG HO :yes: . www.raylar.com I think. Also on www.hotboat.net they talk a lot about the raylar kit. Good Luck :shades:

Undertaker

[blueliner]

excuse my ignorance but what does lab finished mean w/ regards to the prop. also, the supercharger kit will boost hp by 150. why buzilla do you think this is a waste. do you have some experience w/ these units. if you have some knowledge please share w/ me, i don't want to get into anything if it doesn't make sense. but upping your top speed by 15 mph seems worth it to me. any help again is greatly appreciated.

[ChromeGorilla]

Lab finishing means they sharpen the trailing edges. This makes the prop easier to turn and will result in 200-300 more RPM. So figiure 1-2 MPH increase. But this does void any warranty on ANY prop. I think people are 50/50 on whether to lab the prop. Alot like it alot think save your $$.


As far as $$$ to increased speed ratio, only YOU know what is worth it to you.

[RickSE]

Undertaker, here's my trim tab indicator placement.

[undertaker]

Rick thanks for the pic. That look a lot better :D :D

Undertaker :wavey:

[cigarette30]

just got in from a great boat ride on a beautiful day in Vancouver. had a couple questions for you long time performance tweakers. i was in glassy conditions no wind and was going 4900 rpm's and 63.1 knots gps. i had my right tab all the way up but had to have my left k-plane in the number 6 position, i should be able to go faster but this k-plane is slowing me down. should maybe i have the right one down a little bit, thereby being able to bring the left one up and have less of it in the water. any tips or fixes would be greatly appreciated.

thanks in advance.

Blueliner, 1st and FREE tip, is that tab has to come up .... (see thread on Chine walking) Then IMO the least expensive option, is the IMCO shortie, & a labbed prop .... top speed is 78-79 MPH, 1/3 the price of the 500 or 525 e.f.i. upgrade. Also CMI (headers) claiming 60 hp. with a direct swap, but beware, life expectancy is only 2-3 years in salt, and 3-5 in fresh water, in some cases less. Could this be a 80 mph 496 (HO b.t.w.) 22' in the making, with a "black motor" YES!. This would give those that sprung for the high dollar "blue motors" a run for thier money anyday, and imagine these speeds with reliability of a stock motor. :smile:

[blueliner]

if i bring the tab up the boat leans severely to the left and is quite scary, if you know what i mean. pm me your number if you want i would love to talk 2 u.




Blueliner, 1st and FREE tip, is that tab has to come up .... (see thread on Chine walking) Then IMO the least expensive option, is the IMCO shortie, & a labbed prop .... top speed is 78-79 MPH, 1/3 the price of the 500 or 525 e.f.i. upgrade. Also CMI (headers) claiming 60 hp. with a direct swap, but beware, life expectancy is only 2-3 years in salt, and 3-5 in fresh water, in some cases less. Could this be a 80 mph 496 (HO b.t.w.) 22' in the making, with a "black motor" YES!. This would give those that sprung for the high dollar "blue motors" a run for thier money anyday, and imagine these speeds with reliability of a stock motor. :smile:

[cigarette30]

if i bring the tab up the boat leans severely to the left and is quite scary, if you know what i mean. pm me your number if you want i would love to talk 2 u.

Anyone is welcome to talk Donzi's! 410-213-7065, if I am not in.... I will get back to you very quickly.

[roadtrip se]

Blueliner, 1st and FREE tip, is that tab has to come up .... (see thread on Chine walking) Then IMO the least expensive option, is the IMCO shortie, & a labbed prop .... top speed is 78-79 MPH, 1/3 the price of the 500 or 525 e.f.i. upgrade. Also CMI (headers) claiming 60 hp. with a direct swap, but beware, life expectancy is only 2-3 years in salt, and 3-5 in fresh water, in some cases less. Could this be a 80 mph 496 (HO b.t.w.) 22' in the making, with a "black motor" YES!. This would give those that sprung for the high dollar "blue motors" a run for thier money anyday, and imagine these speeds with reliability of a stock motor. :smile:

Doesn't that pretty Cigarette 30 have a set of blue motors in it?

I'm trying to back into your performance math and while it may work on paper, it doesn't in reality. 425HP doesn't equal 470HP+, as the blue motors are always under-rated, any way you slice it.

I agree, the shortie is a cheap upgrade for a boost of 3-5, which should take a 496 HO boat into the mid-70's. Don't forget the bigger propellers and steering that go with that change. It ain't as cheap as it might appear.

The additional 4-5 has to come from horsepower. I run 79-81 depending on the day and I am still waiting for a stock 496HO boat to run with me or past me on fresh water. And, the 500EFI has all of the dependabilty that the black stuff does, maybe more, due to the level of parts used in their construction.

I remember chasing a "mid-80's" 500 boat a few years back. Imagine my surprise when I got to the water after endless hours of re-working my boat, and finding out it wasn't going to be a "mid-80's" boat. Of course, I ran with that boat the next weekend and found out his wasn't the fabled "mid-80's" boat he said it was either. Reality set in.

Ain't no surprises here. Speed takes juice, juice takes money.

[Bad-Tat]

RT,
You can always go for a ride in the worlds fastest 22' that was posted on E-bay!!!

[roadtrip se]

RT,
You can always go for a ride in the worlds fastest 22' that was posted on E-bay!!!

Ok,

That's

Don
Blackhawk
and now Bill...

Chiding me to go check out the "world's fastest 22"!

This is starting to get ugly.

[ChromeGorilla]

I dunno, cig30 may not be off his rocker..... plus CDMA says I have a "Wednesday boat"........

This is the fastest I have seen in my HO boat.... and I aint got no shorty or headers....
http://www2.hotboat.com/image_center/data/500/2445FXCD0059.JPG

[undertaker]

Chrome didn't you remove the spacers or (whatever they are called I forget) on your exhaust. Just Curious :biggrin:

Undertaker :cartman:

[blackhawk]

Chrome that is definitely smokin! :yes: What do you consistantly see for GPS speeds?

[CDMA]

I am seeing more and more 22's with 490 HO's being closer to Mid 70's boats consistently then low 70's boat. If you told me a few years ago a black motor 22 would run 80 with a few minor tweaks I would have told you that you were nuts. (Before someone gets wise I consider the 'Hawk a different animal). I remember when Tom Riggles 72ish 502 was just the most awesome stock 22 around. Have I seen a 496 22 run over 80 yet??? Nope but I bet with the right setup, a few tweaks and a little luck it could be done.

So why is this? Are the new 22's lighter? Are the bottoms straighter? Are 496 HO's becoming more powerful ( sounds funny but I am not the only person who has wondered aloud whether Merc products pick up a few "unannounced" ponies after a few years on the market. Anyone run a '06 275 Verado vs and '05 back to back?) Someone pointed that out to me and low and behold it seems to have more guts. I am not sure which or all of these aspects is the reason but they sure do seem to be flying.

Regardless I think these 496 HO boats are a real nice package. There are times I walk into the shed and look at the ungodly undertaking of a 22 I have and realize it could have had a 496 HO and been running almost 2 years ago. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: . that being said, when its done, ( I may have more grey then poodle) I think it should be awesome. As much for the rough stuff and handling then the top speed.

The one thing about the 496 is they sure as heck don't have that midrange the 500 does and in my opinion that is almost the most fun part. My little over powered 18 is more fun from 40-60 accelerating then it is winding it out to 70...then again there are other issues there.

"Too much strake" Chris

...finally letting someone else be the Guinea pig

[bob haver]

Wow that is awesome, Scott!! Congrats, I thought I was doing good at 76.8, I like the fact that we know what these stock boats are capable of and can do.
Hope to see you in Lake George in September at the barbeque.
Bob Haver

[ChromeGorilla]

OK, I don't know what you talking about, (btw,they're turbulators) my motor is under warranty for 5 more years, I didn't take nuttin out :rolleyes: ...... :wavey: With fulll fuel and 1 passenger 72-75. The boat runs pretty strong. Did I mention I love my friggin boat!

[ChromeGorilla]

Chris, we'll have take her out at the rally while the wifey chills poolside... :yes:

[Greg K]

This is the fastest I have seen in my HO boat.... and I aint got no shorty or headers....


Which way was that on the river... :wink: :wink: :D

[CDMA]

Chrome...before you let me in the boat, not less the drivers seat, be warned I am a professional breaker of stuff :rolleyes: :wink: :wink:

BTW don't you owe me a PM?

[ChromeGorilla]

Sure do.... tommorrow morning I'll have it together and shoot it over. So thats a big negatory on letting you sit in the drivers seat huh? ;) :wrench:

[ChromeGorilla]

Which way was that on the river... :wink: :wink: :D


LOL my ass. It was on a lake. :uzi:

[Cuda]

CG, when you took it in for service, did they check the hours. I'm curious how many you put on in the first year. I'd be willing to bet, you put more hours on your Donzi than anyone else on the board.

[undertaker]

OK, I don't know what you talking about, (btw,they're turbulators) my motor is under warranty for 5 more years, I didn't take nuttin out :rolleyes: ...... :wavey: With fulll fuel and 1 passenger 72-75. The boat runs pretty strong. Did I mention I love my friggin boat!


Chrome I know you were lerking on hotboat.net about the tubulators and was just curious to see if you removed them, did not know you had the extended warranty. My bad :boggled:

Undertaker

[ChromeGorilla]

Yes my boat has extended warranty. Yes I don't know what your talking about with this "turbulator" mumbo jumbo... :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

[undertaker]

Say NO MORE!! :wink: :wink:



Undertaker :biggrin.: