Why is New Car buying so difficult?

[Formula Jr]

Do they all just assume we all fell off a turnip truck?
First there is the "hard to get Sales person"
Then they morphed to " Gee, that car will be transfered to another dealer if you don't act now."
And now Its the, "we are being so nice to you that we have held this car over," BS.

I haven't even taken a test drive yet!

I feel like walking on the lot dressed as a Scottish Highlander, little purse and all, and ask if there is any one, "Man enough to sell me a car for a fair price."
Probably would be removed by security......... ;)

[Cuda]

I didn't have any problem. I told the guy what I wanted, and he came back with a price $2000 less than I thought it was worth. It was his coming out price, I told him "deal" and left with the new truck in less than an hour.

[Dr. Dan]

:spongebob I always just tell them I am only beginning to look, I make sure what ever Car or Brand I am looking at... I tell them I am also considering some lofty competitive product. For example if I was looking at an Excursion I tell them I have looked at H2's and Denalis....then these guys back off. I also really do alot of Valuation Research before I go in and see any Salesman, this puts me at an advantage in terms of Market Knowledge of the Vehicle.

The Suburban I last purchased, was listed at $45,000 I ended up paying $37,500 for it...hell my 1997 4 Runner was $34 when it was new...so I thought I got a great Deal on the Burban.

When they ask me "What do we have to do to put you in this Car Today?" I have a pre-determined range of value, I tell them where they have to be, and it's not a random number...and if they are close to that range...we talk more...if not I keep shopping. I always get a call back after I leave...trick is walking away...

I also ask the Salesman how long have they been there? If its only a really short time, I am more leary....if they have been feeding their Family for years doing this...they are probably doing something more right than wrong...I actually like a good Salesman...why Cause I are one!!!! :beer:

Doc of Soon To Be Shopping for New Tow Vehicle or Sport Touring Car :spongebob

[Dr. Dan]

:wavey:
Car buying is why the good Lord invented the fax machine.....

I do my research..

I spec the vehicle....

I fax several dealers my "list of demands" for the vehicle in question. I make it perfectly clear that I am taking bids on the vehicle, and I want an out the door price on it or their bid will not be considered..

Low bidder sells a vehicle... Hell, half the time I never even see the dealership, just have them deliver the vehicle to the office....

:wavey: You Are My Hero! :D

[boxy]

Car buying is why the good Lord invented the fax machine.....

I do my research..

I spec the vehicle....

I fax several dealers my "list of demands" for the vehicle in question. I make it perfectly clear that I am taking bids on the vehicle, and I want an out the door price on it or their bid will not be considered..

Low bidder sells a vehicle... Hell, half the time I never even see the dealership, just have them deliver the vehicle to the office....

So which dealers have you faxed for a new Saleen Mustang ... ???????

Anon.... ducking and running ...... :D

Somehow we've become a Dodge family the last few years, I've got a great dealer, I shop the vehicle, then go to see him, and he beats the price. It takes the pain out of most of the process.

[Tidbart]

I do all my homework first. The trick is finding the actual dealer cost first.
Then I make a spreadsheet to do my calcs. This helps with the negotiations. One time I brought a laptop into the dealer and verified all the costs with the salesman, then walked out. Man, were they pissed. :biggrin:

See the attached file for an example of the spreadsheet. Knowing all this info arms you to do battle. You decide what is a fair profit! :yes:

Have all your canned answers ready for their canned questions. "How much do you want to spend?".... Not one red cent.

B

[joel3078]

Find a dealer like Saturn - they give you their best price up front on both new and used vehicls and there is no haggling over price. This was orginally invented for Women as they hate the salesguy bull**** games. Remember that Women buy a lots of cars and motorcycles. Harley Davidson knows this big time. A few of the dealerships up here in Minnesota are now copying this sales method and it works well for them. The Walser group of dealerships is a fine example.

If you are trading in a vehicle, you get to do haggling as every dealership will lowball your trade. You are much better off selling your trade-in yourself. Especially with the power of the internet for marketing your vehicle. ebay motors, trader online, car soup, etc. are great for selling your vehicle.

[Tidbart]

If you don't want to haggle follow the FAX approach. If you go to a place like Saturn that gives their 'Best Price', remember to put on your "Sucker" sign before you go.
Can you say, marketing?

Bob

[joel3078]

I agree with you Bob, do your homework first and negoiate to get the best possible deal. Hell, negoiate with mutiple dealers for the same vehicle if you are buying new. I'm in sales myself and enjoy negotiations with others. However, most people hate the traditional car buying process.

Saturn and other dealerships have done some great marketing alright. May not be the best possible $$ deal for the buyer but it is a pre-discounted price. This offers a simple win win situation and the buyer goes home happy cause they got a good deal. The car buying process felt good. Kinda like buying a Donzi. If the deal doesn't feel right, the sale ain't going down no matter what the price is. Most buyers would rather spend a little bit extra and have a great buying experiance. The deal is then worth it.

Never bought a Saturn myself. They don't have a very high tow capacity rating for towing my Donzi around to the different lakes and rivers.

[Cuda]

Yes, you can bet their "no haggling price" is not in the buyers best interest that's for sure. Heck, you can do that at any dealer if you don't mind paying full retail.

[Formula Jr]

Thanks Guys. Great feed back and good ideas. I figured you all would have more experience at this than I ever have. I don't have many options when it comes to dealerships with in a reasonable distance for the bid process to work.
I've focused in on a new, Chevy Aveo L4 hatchback style, Blue or Red in the LT trim level with the automatic trans. There is nothing macho or particularly exciting about this car. I'm just looking at functionality and this G3 van is killing me at the gas pump as a daily runner. The Autotrans Aveo gets 26/34 according to the EPA. These are rare in my market, which doesn't make sense since their port of entry is Tacoma. I'm not seeing any of these used in Portland or Seattle, so they must be Oky and the buyers like them. I'm going with the automatic because of the hills in Seattle and the traffic jams. And I plan on moving to Seattle next year or so. It probably makes more sense to buy it in that area, were I can pit other dealers in a bid process and I know there isn't much of a destination charge. A fair price is 10,500 in my way of thinking. Washington has an 8.6 sales tax. So I'd be back at 11,403. List is 12,985, GM discount, ending this month is 11,340, and the dealers here are not even entertaining "Haggle offers." I just learned that that was part of the GM discount deal from a third source.
Tranfering an Oregon Title/Registration/tag to a Washington Title/ Registration/tag would add $250 to the overal "cost." I will have to add to the bids that if you call me on the phone, you are out.......:propeller

[Formula Jr]

Okay, now you're my Hero also........ Can you churn a trade in? If you're in fleet buying? Pretty good way to get donzi gas money!

[gold-n-rod]

It probably makes more sense to buy it in that area, were I can pit other dealers in a bid process and I know there isn't much of a destination charge.

I've always understood that the destination charge is the same, regardless if it is shipped 2 miles or 2200 miles. Hell, if that were the case, people would buy vehicles built near them to save some bux. Not possible.

[Formula Jr]

I'm gonna see whats left on the lots in October. So does anyone here want to move to Jasper, Oregon. 50 foot dome, two bed two bath, on 20 acers. Lots of peace and quiet, no one in sight, $440K as is, big garage. 30 min. easy commute to Eugene.

[Cuda]

I've turned down more than one deal at the table due to them trying to add "dealer prep". I told them I'd give them $xx,xxx.00, then the contract read that price +$450 prep. I tell them not to prep it, I'll take it like it sits. It seems there is a law in Florida, where if they charge one person prep, they have to charge all. Told them I didn't care if they left it at the bottom of the contract, as long as they took it off up top. All it is is free profit. I've never seen a deal on a vehicle I couldn't walk away from. That's why I'm so glad this last deal was less than I was going to pay, because I wanted this truck badly. :)

[Donzigo]

Gee...........you guys buy all these new vehicles. I usually buy used with less than 20,000 on the odometer. I too have a system. I get on the net, do my product knowledge thing, get an idea of all the vehicles that I am intersted in, I narrow it down to one make/model. The last was the GMC/Tahoe model. I faxed just like Poodle does, when I get all the reponses of the drive out price less what I think my trade is worth, (and I think you can pretty much nail down the ACV of your trade, if you're realistic about it), then I call on the phone, talk with a manager, then drive to get the vehicle. The last one I bought a year or so ago, drove from Tampa to Orlando, walked into dealership with the check, keys to my trade, and title, in hand, then drove the 2002 GMC around the dealership for 5 minutes. It had an expensive after market (Sherrod???) package on it; so, the salesmanager tried to up me on the price. He said: "Hey, it's a great deal & you're not gonna drive back to Tampa without it, are you?". I said: "Hey, watch me, the best deal is the one I drove in with." He said: "Ok, OK, it's yours." I know they made money, they have every right to.

I was in the dealership less than 30 minutes.

I love my Yukon.

[gcarter]

I have only bought two new cars in my life, and the last one was in 1968. So I really don't remember what all this is all about.
Yeah, I'm having a senior moment.
Elaine and I have six vehicles, two Explorers for us and three Toyota pickups for the service department (and an Acura sedan as a spare). They all get more than 25000 miles per year, most more than 50,000 miles. So fighting all that depreciation is something I don't want to do. We very carefully shop the type of used vehicle we need (boring isn't it) and buy it. We bought the Explorers right after the Firestone debacle so we did well there. They're really great daily drivers, not so hot for towing Donzis. They're all paid for, and it's always easy to get together the cash needed to buy what we need.
I think the next will be a '00 to '03 Navigator. That should do better towing the Minx. At least I hope so.
It is kind of interesting reading all this though. It reminds me of my mother-in-law. Every so often she has to have a NEW Buick (talk about BORING!).
She says the peace of mind is worth it. I keep reminding her the first year depreciation would pay for at least two drive trains. :rlol:


:wavey:

[Cuda]

From a tax standpoint, it doesn't make sense to me not to buy a new truck every year. I only found out two years ago, that I can write of the entire purchase price of the truck. Not just what I've paid on it that year. Makes no sense to me, but there it is. I wrote off half of my 2002 in 2003's taxes, and left me with $17,000 more that I could carry over to this year's 2002 tax return. I found I didn't have to use the $17k this year, so I planned on keeping the 02, one more year so I could write off the 17. I was really dissapointed that I didn't need the write off last year, because I really wanted a new '05 F350. Turns out the wreck took care of that problem. I ended up ok on the insurance. I paid off my truck and ended up with $5400 in my pocket, and I would have sold the truck for just what I owed on it.

[gcarter]

From a tax standpoint, it doesn't make sense to me not to buy a new truck every year. I only found out two years ago, that I can write of the entire purchase price of the truck. Not just what I've paid on it that year. Makes no sense to me, but there it is. I wrote off half of my 2002 in 2003's taxes, and left me with $17,000 more that I could carry over to this year's 2002 tax return. I found I didn't have to use the $17k this year, so I planned on keeping the 02, one more year so I could write off the 17. I was really dissapointed that I didn't need the write off last year, because I really wanted a new '05 F350. Turns out the wreck took care of that problem. I ended up ok on the insurance. I paid off my truck and ended up with $5400 in my pocket, and I would have sold the truck for just what I owed on it.
Joe, your absolutely right, from a tax standpoint. But you still have to pay for it, and in my case "them".
I can't afford to buy new trucks, but I always seem to be able to put together the cash to buy some good used ones. :smile:

[Cuda]

Joe, your absolutely right, from a tax standpoint. But you still have to pay for it, and in my case "them".
I can't afford to buy new trucks, but I always seem to be able to put together the cash to buy some good used ones. :smile:
The way I figure it, say $40,000 off my tax burden. Say a 22% bracket, that gives me an $8800 real dollar savings. If the truck doesn't depreciate more than $8800 a year, it doesn't pay to NOT buy one.

[Cuda]

That $8800 enables me to make a $733 monthly payment.

[OKII]

The way I would prefer to be approached on a car lot, is the same way when i'm in a department store. If I have a question, I'll ask... if I want to look, I'll look... and If I want to buy, I will buy, As long as the person I'm dealing with makes me feel comfortable and not under pressure. Of course, I expect to have a good amount of knowledge when I approach a large purchase such as a vehicle, boat, boat, house etc... I will always test the consultant on thier knowledge, and play somewhat dumb at the same time. But one thing I will ALWAYS do is purchase from someone that I'm comfortable with. If I dont get that "good feeling" then nothing really matters. I was raised to understand that people have to make a living, and businesses we need to keep the lights on, as consumers we want to do our best not to let them shine too bright!? No matter what kind of business it is. I'm also a firm believer in that..But then again I have been involved in the car business since I was 12 yrs old. (It was part time back then). I do hope that you guys truly have somewhat of an enjoyable experience. I know that several of my customers do, otherwise I would never see them again. Maybe its the difference between big city market and the smaller ones?? Good Info nonetheless

[show-n-go h2o]

not to offend anyone but when i get those faxed request to purchase a xar i throw them away. you cant buy a car over the phone or on the pc. the cheapest price isn't always the best deal.
A good deal is a state of mind... the people that we make the most on are normally the ones that are happy..as long as you know that we have to make money and your fair we will be fair.most of the dealers dont want to play games, we are forced to because of thats what most of the cust. want..

[roadtrip se]

not to offend anyone but when i get those faxed request to purchase a xar i throw them away. you cant buy a car over the phone or on the pc. the cheapest price isn't always the best deal.
A good deal is a state of mind... the people that we make the most on are normally the ones that are happy..as long as you know that we have to make money and your fair we will be fair.most of the dealers dont want to play games, we are forced to because of thats what most of the cust. want..

Man, you are in the used car business aren't you? Next time we hook up down at Cumberland, we'll have to talk a little shop. :bonk: :bonk:

I work directly with Ford as a supplier of dealer software, training, and a litany of other things. The biggest part of our business is helping Ford train their top dealers on how to better treat their customers during every customer interaction across the dealership. Ford spends millions per year on this.

What I scratch my head about are all of the misperceptions about buying a car. Niney percent plus of people surveyed typically say that they are satisfied with the way they were treated during the purchase of their vehicle. And I'm not talking about the factory surveys, I'm talking about JD Power and the ilk.

We train dealers to do business in any format that a customer feels comfortable. Over the net, the phone, in person, and yes, even that fax machine. Our dealers score higher in CSI, retention rates, and improved sales than the others. We have trained 800 of Ford's top 1200 stores so far.
Our program isn't unique and most OEMs have some version of this going on at their dealerships.

So c'mon people, we've been to charm school, so cop us car guys a bit of a break on the old school rhetoric. It is the exception now, not the rule. Shoot us straight, tell us how you feel comfortable dealing with us, and chances are; you will get the same treatment AND a great deal!

Car guy since I swept floors out back in the 7th grade!

[show-n-go h2o]

Man, you are in the used car business aren't you? Next time we hook up down at Cumberland, we'll have to talk a little shop. :bonk: :bonk:

I work directly with Ford as a supplier of dealer software, training, and a litany of other things. The biggest part of our business is helping Ford train their top dealers on how to better treat their customers during every customer interaction across the dealership. Ford spends millions per year on this.

What I scratch my head about are all of the misperceptions about buying a car. Niney percent plus of people surveyed typically say that they are satisfied with the way they were treated during the purchase of their vehicle. And I'm not talking about the factory surveys, I'm talking about JD Power and the ilk.

We train dealers to do business in any format that a customer feels comfortable. Over the net, the phone, in person, and yes, even that fax machine. Our dealers score higher in CSI, retention rates, and improved sales than the others. We have trained 800 of Ford's top 1200 stores so far.
Our program isn't unique and most OEMs have some version of this going on at their dealerships.

So c'mon people, we've been to charm school, so cop us car guys a bit of a break on the old school rhetoric. It is the exception now, not the rule. Shoot us straight, tell us how you feel comfortable dealing with us, and chances are; you will get the same treatment AND a great deal!

Car guy since I swept floors out back in the 7th grade!

yes im in the used car business, but i do work at the number one hyundai dealer in a 13 state area. so i guess in regard to buying a NEW car or truck over the fax it's a diff. story, but you really cant buy a used anything over a fax machine, just like we cant give you a value for your trade over the phone..it's not that i like to be a pain in the ass to deal with or that i wont give out a good deal but i have to draw the line somewhere especially since i am the used car manager not the new car manager

[roadtrip se]

You could be losing sales...

As an example, I just updated my Excursion to a 2005 model trading in a 2000.
I wanted another one, before they ceased production and the Family Plan pricing made it impossible to ignore.

Everybody had the same price on their new stuff, so the deal maker was my trade. My method of contact was the phone. I found six dealers that had a new truck that I would like and started dialing for trade-in values. Five of the six gave me a ballpark over the phone with the qualifier that they wanted to see it to verify condition. There was a ten thousand dollar disparity in the values I got.

I did my deal on the phone, the way I preferred to, many dealers were willing to accomondate me, and I enjoyed making the deal without wasting anybody's time.

It's a different world today. The customer rules and if you want plus business, you better let'em!

[roadtrip se]

I do not have the time nor the inclination to play the usual crap games car dealers seem to love to do. YMMV :) :)

That does it! Next time I'm in Miami, we are going Mustang GT convertible shopping and you are going to like it, ya schmuck!

[Cuda]

I was standing in a Ford dealer's parking lot when I was shopping for Debbie's truck. The salesman refused to give me a price in the lot, he said I had to come into the office before he'd even discuss price. One think I hate is being bayed up like a hog in a sale's office while they rally the troops to catch me. The salesman was a real schmuck. He said they sell 200 vehicles a month there, and he knows what he's doing. I informed him I knew one truck he wasn't going to sell. :uzi: I went down the road and bought one the same day. I wanted to take it back and show him, but I settled with calling the dealership and telling them what a schmuck he was, and that I was out to BUY a truck, not shopping. It ain't like he's the only guy in the state that had what I needed. :mad:

[Formula Jr]

I never even got to test drive the car. And thats the basis of my rant here. I did the search on the net and found the car I was interested in. So I was dealing with Fleet Managers. Then I was "assigned" a salesman. The salesman and the fleet manager did'nt communitcate. Fleet Manager trades the one and only car with in 110 miles that he knew I was interested in, the day I was to take a test drive. That same morning, back to back e-mails, the Fleet manager says the car is now in Portland, I get an invite to testdrive the car from the sales guy. And I know, they don't have the car on the lot! I told them to get their storys straight. As Poodle said, I don't have the time.