Space Shuttle Discovery

[Chili 18]

What a beautiful launch! GO U.S.A. Moon - Mars - and beyond. Nice to see NASA seemingly back on track...

[joel3078]

Getting airborne in my Donzi will be even more fun now. Good luck to everyone involved and saying a prayer for a safe trip home. :crossfing

Outerspace, now there would be a kick ass vacation!

[gcarter]

I stepped outside to watch it. It's amazing to see how visible it is from almost 100 miles away.
It was really beautiful. I'm glad they're back too.

[Jraysray]

All around town you see the little signs on the side of the road reading "Fly NASA Fly". Living near the Johnson Space Center everyone you talk to is pumped about it. Talk about GUT'S! What a thrill that must be!!!

[dr]

What a complete waste of taxpayer dollars…I will never understand how or why these things are funded when there are so many real needs.

At least the Clinton administration plan had a much more modest scope and also included the redeeming social element of 'putting a man on Hillary' by the year 2006.

[Lenny]

...and now the Program is "grounded" ... :(

[Gulfbum]

No more a waste than our foriegn policy where we give money away to other countries. When will we learn you can't buy allies/friends. At least we gain more technology from the space program. Here come the nay sayers. Best investment we ever made with our tax dollars....the space program.

Frank

[dr]

No more a waste than our foriegn policy where we give money away to other countries. When will we learn you can't buy allies/friends. At least we gain more technology from the space program. Here come the nay sayers. Best investment we ever made with our tax dollars....the space program.

Frank

And Frank's occupation per his bio...

"I work at the Kennedy Space Center on the shuttle program. I have been working on the shuttle program since 1980. "

DUH?

[Gulfbum]

Thanks MadPoodle.....you took the words right out of my mouth. I wish I had put it that way. You expressed my thoughts exactly.

Frank

[gcarter]

My starting date with the space program was sometime in 1967. I was involved until sometime in 1973. It was one of the most exciting jobs I EVER had. We felt there wasn't anything we couldn't accomplish.
I spent most of my time in Houston, but spent a year at the Cape in '68-'69. I remember during one of the launches, there were demonstrators lined up at one of the gate. They were making similar noises as dr.
If I remember correctly the constituency of the demonstrators was a gigantic black hole. Billions of dollars have been poured into this hole and NOTHING has changed.
Over the years, NASA's goals and programs have changed and advanced. This huge hole the demonstraitors represented is still there, and no amount of money will fix it.
Why can't anyone admit that most Federal welfare programs DON'T work and try something different?

[Gulfbum]

Gcarter.....you were out here when my dad was here. We moved to Fl in 1965 and he worked for Rockwell back then. You might have known him.

Frank

[gcarter]

My year @ the Cape was with Bendix Launch Support Division.
But about every third person was with Rockwell or Boeing. Those were the days. It's different now.
I worked in the Administration building, and wife #1 worked in the VAB, fortunately Bendix believed in nepotism.

[Lenny]

..further to Poodles Post, and GulfBums, this is what you get for helping :rolleyes:

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/07/27/koreas.nuclear.meet.ap/index.html

They will accept all the money you want to give them if you disarm or "patrol" South Korea and manage the armaments to ensure their (NK) future and the Communist Regimes' future... (or those in power).. otherwise they will throw stones at you and make their entire population live in poverty and reward a few. (actually, poverty would be a step up and something to dream of there :rolleyes: )

It makes me puke.

Back to the Space Shuttle, DR got me off track. :)

[Formula Jr]

China could shut down NK tomorrow.
And GW could just ask his cabinette who leaked Plame.
Niether are likely.....

Enjoy your Walmart shopping experience......:umbrella:

[dr]

So I guess the clear choices are…

Foreign Aid
Alleviate hunger
World peace
Facilitate human rights
Combat aids
Forward our US agenda

or

Space Program
Tang

[dr]

OK, in order:

Foreign Aid: Screw the ungrateful bastages

Alleviate hunger: We tried that, the governments took our food supplies and sold it to their people.. Nuke em next time..

World peace: Nuke em....

Facilitate human rights: Just send the afl/cio over, they'll fix it...

Combat aids: Start at home.... See Foreign Aid

Forward our US agenda: Hmm, nuke em seems to be the logical choice once again...

Space Program: Keeps our citizens working... Enables us to put satellites up that make our nuclear weapns more accurate.
Tang: MMMMMM, Tang :)


Looks like nuke em wins :D :D :D

The other Scott

Resident Pacifist ;) ;)
How does one argue with such genius?

[Chili 18]

Which is all of course exactly why we need NASA. And to find another habitable planet. And solve that pesky issue of intergalactic travel when we do find it. Some day... If we don’t all go boom first... Ill bet it will happen. Not for us most likely. But science fiction has a way of making its way into the text and history books eventually.

Money and kind intentions won’t solve the troubles here on earth. Simply too many people and too few resources. Perhaps some comet that wipes out 3/4 of the earths population would get the message out about all getting along. No, probably not even that.

So, go NASA.... Papa needs a new planet... :-)

[dr]

Which is all of course exactly why we need NASA. And to find another habitable planet. And solve that pesky issue of intergalactic travel when we do find it. Some day... If we don’t all go boom first... Ill bet it will happen. Not for us most likely. But science fiction has a way of making its way into the text and history books eventually.

Money and kind intentions won’t solve the troubles here on earth. Simply too many people and too few resources. Perhaps some comet that wipes out 3/4 of the earths population would get the message out about all getting along. No, probably not even that.

So, go NASA.... Papa needs a new planet... :-)

So one of you (Poodle) is an isolationist wanting to nuke everything but white bread and the other thinks were going to find some real alien’s to give government cheese to…what are you guys smoking?

[gcarter]

I'm not going to put words in Poodles mouth....but I like what he said.
Maybe we could call this the Poodle Doctrine. ;) :rlol:
I think the roots may be found in the Islamists theory we're battling now.
As I'm sure you know, it goes like this...
"If you don't agree with us, you're gonna die, Infidel!!!"

Well, maybe he took a page from this and is saying;
"If you don't like the US and our space program, we'll NUKE ya!!!!!"

:wavey:

[boldts]

Gulfbum - Can you give us an update as news is reporting shuttle fleet grounded and maybe we can't bring our astronaunts back home due to shuttle damage?

DR - Man, if you can't support America and it's people. I'm sure no one will mind you leaving the USA. Are you an X NASA or subsidary company employee who was left jobless? We hear that crap every day in our work places from stuck in the mud folks who don't like change. If man & woman didn't push the envelope to discover new things, we'd still be dying from many now conqured illnesses. I'm a diabetic and I thank the lord every day for the person who developed the insulin pump I now have. Who knows, a cure could come from experiments being done in space.

Now then, why are tax payers like myself paying for inmates who have been to trial and found guilty to life sentences? These people get 3 meals a day, medical needs, clothing and a roof over their heads. This is something that a lot of hard working Americans can't even afford. What ever happened to an eye for an eye?

Back to the subject - America's Space Shuttle

[Rootsy]

i would really love to be the first diciple of the poodle doctrine... :)

if it weren't for the significantly reduced gravitational field in space many of our current research projects couldn't be performed...

if you didn't have things such as NASA... then we wouldn't have many of the engineering marvels we have today... let alone the theory and application...

so DR... if you don't support NASA... maybe we should shut down every college in the US that receives taxpayer money and we could send all of those worthless and overpaid professors on sabatical to like middle africa each with a baggie of rice for some poor starving child.. best give em a big stick to beat off the starving adults, that is if they make it through customs with the rice... warlords need to eat too...

[Gulfbum]

Well Boldts here is the latest....

1. Discovery....the one in space now....is looking good as far as damage to the thermal protection system.....we had 80% less damage than we have ever had before....so they will be safe to come home on 8/7 @5;46 am.

2. As far as the word "grounded" is concerned....that word has been taken very badly by all the KSC people. Yes we did see some foam loss from the ET and what we saw was unacceptable. So there is a lot of engineers at the ET plant working to find out why and how to stop it from happening again. Realize after every flight they evaluate any and all problems that occur. Then they decide which ones need to be fixed or taken care of before the next launch. Every flight is different and all kinds of things can and do happen. Some of them are not a saftey to flight issue and some are. The ones that are have immediate attention and are a constraint to the next flight until they are fixed and explained. So now we have a saftey of flight anomally that has to be fixed so I am sure we will have to reschedule the next launch date because of it. But you can bet "We wll fly again and again and again until they tell us to stop". It is just like any other problem that everyone experiences in their business or private life. Say for instance you took your boat out and during you trip you find there is a fuel leak because you smell gas in the engine compartment. I bet you will look, find and fix it before you launch that boat again.
OK sorry I will get off my soap box again...:)
I hope I have answered you question...what was it again? LMAO at myself.

Frank

[Chili 18]

So one of you (Poodle) is an isolationist wanting to nuke everything but white bread and the other thinks were going to find some real alien’s to give government cheese to…what are you guys smoking?


Perhaps you need to be honest about who here is really smoking some government cheese..... aliens Who said anything outlandish. The short term beneffits of the space program are a part of out daily lives. The long tern beneffits are quite probably.... beyond our wildest imagination. I certainly hope so.

Anyway, d.r., I presume you are misunderstood here on this topic. Surely you aren't turned off by the future and science... Its governmental spending on space research. Right. On a strictly pureist platform, I understand that point. { Thou probably based on different philosophies.. }

However the truth seems to lurk somewhere between an instant nuking [although its fun to contemplate in an off moment] and offering assistance to help them build more bombs. {err, i mean power plants]...

As my 'younger' friends say "peace out". And in the meantime... Explore, grow, create, Build fast Donzi's.. etc

Very pleased to hear the tiles seem to be in order. Hope we overcome the limitations of a tile system in the future. And can manage to keep foam glued to a tank in the meantime...

WHO HERE would like to visit space as a tourist? Float around for a weekend. I would! [and i "hate" to fly] http://www.virgingalactic.com/en/

[DonziDave]

The very thing that separates man form all other life on this planet is our quest to find out what's over the next hill, to gain knowledge, and explore. The shuttle may be flawed and old, but it is all we have right now. Keep on flying....!!!!
I have been following the events on NASA TV and during a news conference one of the engineers announced that a few seconds into the liftoff, the shuttle had a bird strike to the external tank. He said the bird hit the tank, traveled down the front of the tank, and into the rocket plume.
In a monumental understatement, he said "We have been unable to find the bird". :)

[Sagbay32]

Havin' some popcorn with my Tang.......yum!

Mike

[boldts]

Thanks for the explanation Gulfbum. It's really nice to have someone here on the inside who can explain the out of context remarks by news stations looking for ratings. I know they are just doing their jobs, but give us the whole story. Not just the part that gets Americans worried to keep tuning in. Stand on your soapbox anytime! Your exactly right in your comparison of a boat and fuel smells. I think most of us would shut the boat down and opt to be towed back to the trailer than take the chance of a catastrophy. Please pass on to everyone you work with that our prayers are with our astronaunts and keep reaching for the stars!

[Jraysray]

From Giant Leaps to Baby Steps
New York Times (Opinion Page)
By EUGENE F. KRANZ
Houston -- TO read and listen to the coverage about the space shuttle, you would think NASA's mission team has taken careless risks with the lives of the seven astronauts who went into space on the Discovery last Tuesday. During the launching, foam fell off the external tank. For the risk-averse, the only acceptable thing to do now is retire the shuttle program immediately and wait for the divine arrival of the next generation of spacecraft. I am disgusted at the lack of courage and common sense this attitude shows.

All progress involves risk. Risk is essential to fuel the economic engine of our nation. And risk is essential to renew American's fundamental spirit of discovery so we remain competitive with the rest of the world.

My take on the current mission is very straightforward. The shuttle is in orbit. To a great extent mission managers have given the spacecraft a clean bill of health. Let us remember that this is a test flight. I consider it a remarkably successful test so far.

The technical response to the Columbia accident led to a significant reduction in the amount of debris striking this shuttle during launching. Mission managers have said that the external tank shed 80 percent less foam this time than on previous launchings. Only in the news media, apparently, is an 80 percent improvement considered a failure. Rather than quit, we must now try to reduce even more the amount of foam that comes off the tank.

The instruments and video equipment developed to assess the launching and monitor debris falling from the tank worked superbly. For the first time, the mission team knows what is happening, when it is happening and the flight conditions under which it occurred. This was a major mission objective, and it is an impressive achievement.

Having spent more than three decades working in the space program, I know that all of the flights of the early days involved some levels of risk. Some of those risks, in hindsight, seem incomprehensible by today's timid standards. If we had quit when we had our first difficulties in Project Mercury, we would have never put John Glenn on the Atlas rocket Friendship 7 in 1961. Two of the previous five Atlas rockets test-fired before Friendship 7 had exploded on liftoff.

On Gemini 9, 10 and 11, all in 1966, we had complications with planned spacewalks that placed the astronauts at risk. Rather than cancel the walks, we faced the risks and solved the problems. These set the stage for Gemini 12 later that year, during which Buzz Aldrin spent more than five hours outside the capsule and confirmed to NASA that spacewalks could be considered an operational capability.

Eventually, this ability enabled astronauts to retrieve satellites and repair and maintain the Hubble space telescope; and during the current mission, spacewalks were used to repair a gyroscope on the International Space Station and will allow the crew to fix some of the damage that occurred during the launching. These are the rewards for the risks we took on those early Gemini flights.

I understand the tragedy inherent in risk-taking; I witnessed the fire aboard Apollo 1 in 1967 that killed three crew members. It filled us with anger at ourselves and with the resolve to make it right. After the fire we didn't quit; we redesigned the Apollo command module. During the Apollo missions that followed, we were never perfect. But we were determined and competent and that made these missions successful.

I see the same combination of anger, resolve and determination in the space shuttle program today. These people are professionals who understand risk, how to reduce it and how to make that which remains acceptable. Most important, the current mission has demonstrated the maturity of the shuttle team that endured the Columbia disaster and had the guts to persevere. This is the most important aspect of the recovery from the Columbia accident, and is a credit to the great team NASA now has in place, headed by its administrator, Michael Griffin.

There are many nations that wish to surpass us in space. Does the "quit now" crowd really believe that abandoning the shuttle and International Space Station is the way to keep America the pre-eminent space-faring nation? Do they really believe that a new spacecraft will come without an engineering challenge or a human toll? The path the naysayers suggest is so out of touch with the American character of perseverance, hard work and discovery that they don't even realize the danger in which they are putting future astronauts - not to mention our nation.

Eugene F. Kranz, author of "Failure Is Not an Option: Mission Control From Mercury to Apollo 13 and Beyond," is a former Apollo flight director

[Surfer]

Gene Kranz is a personal hero, thanks for his post. Discovery has landed safely at Edwards. on to the next!

[boldts]

Congrats to everyone involved with the Discovery space flight. It was a beautiful site to see the shuttle landing this morning in CA.

[harbormaster]

Amen to that Scott!

[Gulfbum]

What happened to the pictures I posted?