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dfunde01
07-09-2005, 01:28 PM
When I turn the engine hatch knob to open the hatch the knob pops up, but the hatch is still firmly locked down. How in the heck can something so simple malfunction. Are there any tricks to release the hatch short of removing the rear hinges? For some reason I thought that there was an access panel behind the back seat cushion, but no such luck.

Dave

MOP
07-09-2005, 01:42 PM
Dave I have to admit I am sitting here giggling! I think what is happening is it a hot day, my 16's hatch would get stuck on hot days from expansion. At first I just soaped the spots that rubbed but that got old so finally I sanded the lower edges where I could see it was rubbing that cured it.

Phil

dfunde01
07-09-2005, 05:49 PM
Dave I have to admit I am sitting here giggling! I think what is happening is it a hot day, my 16's hatch would get stuck on hot days from expansion. At first I just soaped the spots that rubbed but that got old so finally I sanded the lower edges where I could see it was rubbing that cured it.

Phil
Phil,

I wish that were the problem. There is plenty of clearence around the edges of the hatch and all four corners appear to be free. We looped a rope around the knob and pulled as hard as we dared. Something is solidly holding the hatch closed and short of cutting a hole in the dang hatch I can't think of away to fix the problem. We started to pull the hinges, but only one screw came out and a couple of others just turned without backing out. Donzi's seem to have the strangest problems.

Dave

MOP
07-09-2005, 09:36 PM
I believe it is the 1/4 turn spring loaded pop up with the cross pin and Donzi on the top, if so the soap thing should work. The hinges are through bolted so forget that approach, what I would do is to buy and access plate and pop a hole behind the seat cushion. One other thought, my hatch looked to have very good clearance all the way around but the bottom edge protruded out a little. They had not fully trimmed off the mold lip, that is what was catching on mine and once sanded down the hatch rattled I had to add rubber in the corners to silence it. Just for S&G try putting dish detergent in the groove then apply pressure with your line and have someone push down in a few spots to get the soap in where it may do some good.

Phil

dfunde01
07-29-2005, 03:47 PM
My local Donzi dealer has my Classic 16 to get the stuck engine hatch open. So far he is getting zero help from the Donzi waranty contact. When he asked about cutting a 6" access behind the rear seat cushion he was told that the fire supression was there. Wrong! No halon sytem in this one. Then he suggests removing the hinges. Wrong! The screws are back bolted. Next he suggests cutting the hinges, but can't confirm that he can ship exact replacements immediately. He didn't have time to look at a new Classic 4.3 to see what is behind the back seat. Finally he told the local service manager to fax him a request to cut an access hatch and a description of the problem since the problem is so unusual.

This leads me to two questions:

What is the problem with Donzi factory customer/dealer service? It is as if the factory doesn't care about supporting the customer or the dealer.

On an 05 Classic 16, 4.3 EPI with no options, what is mounted on the wall in the engine compartment behind the back seat backrest cushion that could interfer with cutting a 6" Access hatch hole to find what has the release latch locked down?

Thanks,

Dave

MOP
07-29-2005, 04:18 PM
Dave my 16 had a 8X12 flip hatch set vertically behind the seat I did that to change cams, it also came in real handy when adjusting belts and shooting the timing. A surveyor friend of mine said it had even a better use as a fire port, he showed me some literature on fire ports. He said if a fire was to develop in the engine hole and you were to open the hatch the flames would shot out and according to the literature could explode due to the added oxygen. Have the port low down and having an extinguisher in hand was supposedly way safer, shoot the stuff in as you pop open the port. I am planning on cutting one into the 22 shortly, a true fire ports hole is slightly smaller then the discharge nozzle of the standard extinguisher so it can be held tightly against the surface of the opening. Most I have seen have a flat piece covering the hole a little bigger then the opening that is mounted with just one screw at the top allowing it to be quickly moved aside to use the extinguisher.

Phil

Sagbay32
07-29-2005, 08:28 PM
How much are hatch knobs?

I would just drill it out. If I remember correctly, there is nothing but the bottom receiver plate below the hatch knob. It has to be cheaper and better than cutting the glass.

Mike

dfunde01
07-29-2005, 08:51 PM
How much are hatch knobs?

I would just drill it out. If I remember correctly, there is nothing but the bottom receiver plate below the hatch knob. It has to be cheaper and better than cutting the glass.

Mike

That is what has us puzzled. The knob turns a quarter turn and pops up at an angle, but the hatch is still firmly locked down at the knob.

Dave

joseph m. hahnl
07-30-2005, 10:05 AM
That is what has us puzzled. The knob turns a quarter turn and pops up at an angle, but the hatch is still firmly locked down at the knob.

Dave


if the nob is not turning a full 90 degrees the lock pin will not line up to the rease slots. so to me it sounds as if the nob is not turning fully. so here is what i would do be for i cut any thing off or out. rap the nob up with a rag or racing tape" duck tape" get a nice big monkey wrench or vise grips. and turn it the full ninty degrees.


also if the pin has moved in the nob "has pulled out or sticking further out on one side it may not be able to escape. "as why it would come out crooked"at an angle". so you would need to push the nob straight and it should release> ther should be a little give in the hatch. but dont push so hard that you break something.


froma machinist stand point it only takes .001 0f an inch to bind something so you probably dont have very far to push it.



good luck :
joe

dfunde01
08-13-2005, 02:57 PM
The stuck hatch latch is no longer stuck. The dealer cut a 4.5" access hole behind the center of the rear seat cushion directly under the latch assembley. The hole required a cut through the cockpit fiberglass, 5/8" plywook and front wall of engine compartment. 4" access ports were installed on each side. We found that the pin on the end of the rod connecting the the knob on top had vibrated /slipped all the way to one side so that it would not clear the notch that holds the hatch down. They used a rolled steel pin held in by friction instead of a solid pin held by a set screw. Donzi was a royal PIA to the dealer insisting that they cut the rear hinges and crawl under to get to the latch rather than cut a hole. They would not accept that to raise the cover from the back, with the front locked down, would result in destroying the front lip of the hatch. I bought the second access port to dress the interior of the engine compartment to protect the plywood because they won't approve an additional $10.00 part to correct their problem. It appears that Donzi factory support is a shadow of what it used to be. The 05 16 Classic, with trailer, is still for sale for $22,900.00.

dfunde01
08-13-2005, 03:33 PM
We cut a 4.5" access hole through the seat back to get to the bottom of the latch assembley. We found that a rolled pin through the bottom of the shaft that the knob turns to secure the hatch had vibrated all the way to one side preventing it from clearing through the notch. The Donzi factory was virtually no help to the dealer dragging their feet and making really dumb suggestions. I lost four weeks of use for a 30 minute repair. The 05 classic 16 is still for sale for $22,900 wtih only 10 hours on the clock.

Dave

crow
08-29-2005, 05:53 PM
I'm having the same problem with my 2004 16 Anniversary Edition. Donzi suggested the hole, but I was hoping there was another option.

gold-n-rod
08-29-2005, 06:42 PM
I watch the pin on my '03 16 each and every time I have the hatch open. While I think the acess port idea is a good one for many reasons, I'd prefer not to have to do it dfunde's way.

DonziJon
08-29-2005, 07:07 PM
How about a little "locktite" on the pin to keep it from slipping sideways in the future. OR: a slightly larger "Roll Pin"??

dfunde01
08-30-2005, 12:28 PM
I watch the pin on my '03 16 each and every time I have the hatch open. While I think the acess port idea is a good one for many reasons, I'd prefer not to have to do it dfunde's way.

I wasn't wild about the idea, but I realized that it was desirable to have an access port so that I could put an engine compartment fire down without the risk of a flare up and explosion that exists in opening a hatch once a fire event is in progress. You have to use two 4" access covers. One on the seat back and one inside the engine compartment to seal the internal structures between the seat back and engine compartment. I had to pay for the inside 4" access assembly myself as Donzi decided that exposing the sructural plywood to the open engine compartment moisture didn't require them to spend the additional $15.00. 05 Classic 16 still for sale with 10 hours. Asking $22,900 with loadmaster trailer. Offers accepted at djf@djf.com.

Dave