Newbie with question on mysterious starter problem

[Flabby Baby]

Hi Everyone,
I just finished purchasing my 1986 22' Donzi a couple of weeks ago. I found out about the board recently and I am very impressed with all the information and knowledge contained within.

Here is my problem. I took out my boat for its maiden voyage and everything worked great. It has a 350 with high compression that (i was told by the previous owner) produced about 350 HP. The engine has a new Alpha One outdrive and has a top speed of about 65.

When I brought the boat back home, I tried to start it to flush the engine and it wouldn't start. The starter appeared to be trying to turn over the engine but it sounded like it may be stuck. It didn't do the typical click that a dead battery produces. It sounded like it was engaging but couldn't turn over the engine. I first thought it might be a battery problem so I took out the battery and went to (2) two autopart stores to get them tested. The battery was working fine. I checked all the electrical connections to make sure nothing was loose. Everything was fine.

Here is the mysterious part. When I re-installed the battery, the engine turned over fine. My brother took out the boat last friday and it started and operated perfectly. This problem has not occured again since.

I'm worried that this may happen when I'm in the ocean. Any ideas on what this could be?

Sorry to be so verbose but I wanted to get as much detail as possible.

Thanks,
Rafael

[gcarter]

It might be the starter ring gear on the flywheel.
Unfortunately, you have to pull the engine to replace it. I doesn't cost much ($20-30) and it's easy to replace, but the removal is time consuming.

[Marlin275]

I have this problem right now and my boat is in the shop.
Sometimes when I turn the key I get nothing, no sound, except electric fuel pump.
Start with ignition switch corrosion or bad solenoid in the starter, or bad starter.
Someone else said could be bad connections to starter but mine were just redone new.
Hope that works for us?

[Johntrip]

When you disconnected the battery, were the terminals corroded..? You may have fixed the problem by tightening the connections to the battery better when you reinstalled them....

[Chili 18]

Often, its the simple little things. May be that the battery terminals were corroded... Sometimes they can look clean but still have a film reducing current flow. When you removed the bat and reinstalled, it was a fresh connection. {wasn’t that a movie] anyway. You may want to clean both ends of the battery cables really well and coat with dielectric grease before assembly. The high compression would also take extra energy to turn the starter.

Glad you are enjoying your boat. Sounds great!

Chili

[Chili 18]

great minds think alike...

Have had this happen in several vehicles over time

[YoAnthony]

You might want to check the ignition timing. If it is too far advanced it will fire early and fight the starter. This used to happen on my old Mustang with 10.5:1 compressionThis condition can become worse when the engine is hot because there is enough heat in the combustion chamber to fire early. Premium fuel can cure this problem and would be reccomended with a high compression engine.

Anthony

[Cuda]

I have this problem right now and my boat is in the shop.
Sometimes when I turn the key I get nothing, no sound, except electric fuel pump.
Start with ignition switch corrosion or bad solenoid in the starter, or bad starter.
Someone else said could be bad connections to starter but mine were just redone new.
Hope that works for us?
I'm betting yours is a bad ignition switch. I went through that same scenario one time, and I knew the switch wasn't old, so I was convinced it was something besides the switch. After I changed everything else, I changed the switch and it fired right up. :boggled:

[FISHIN SUCKS]

Is your problem only when the engine is warm? My big block starts hard if she is warm, but no problem when she is cool. I know on my corvettes that the ones with headers would tend to cause problems unless I had a heat sheild around the starter to protect from the heat. My experiences didn't seem to matter whether I had a gear reduced starter or standard.

[Ed Donnelly]

Sounds like the ground connection. I put up with hard starting on the Pantera (11 1/2 to 1 ) when it was hot. Cold it turned over just fine. Found slight corrosion on the chasis ground. Starts like a charm hot or cold now..Ed

[BUIZILLA]

Change the starter slave solenoid.... not the actual starter solenoid.

Jim

[joel3078]

You could always pull the spark plugs and see if that allows the engine to spin/turn over as there would be no compression. If that works, you know all your switches and relays are working. If it screws back up when you reinstall the spark plugs, you then have to find out why your starter motor has weak performance.

Get a DC volt meter and actually measure the 12 volts dc that is going to the starter motor. Starter motors don't like real hi heat as mentioned in fishing sucks' post. Corrosion or other forms of wire resistance will make it even worse by causing a voltage drop. As I recall only a couple of volts of drop (10 volts instead of 12 volts) can make the starter motor not turn over a high compression engine.

[Flabby Baby]

I use premium fuel on the boat and I belive the compression is 10:1 or 10.5:1.

The engine had cooled down when it failed to start. I had brought it back to my house and it had at least 30 minutes to cool down. Furthermore, I tried to start the boat repeatedly over the next two days. When it was running, the engine was at 150 degrees (previous owner says it runs at that temp). It has a fresh water heat exchange and the temperature stays pretty constant.

The starter engaged but failed to turn the engine over a 2 day period. It was not a clicking sound that is usually present when you have a dead battery. And it did not sound like any of the cylinder were firing. When the problem initially occured I charged the battery overnight. The next day, the same problem. I disconnected the battery and clamped on a small battery charger/starter and it still did not work. The only thing that changed from the moment that the engine died until it restarted was that I removed the battery and reconnected it.

I believe that the problem is most likely related to the battery connection, however, there was no corrosion. If this is the problem then it has already been resolved, but I fiddled with the battery and connection so many times and it failed to start for about 2 solid days.


I have checked the following:
All electrical connections leading from battery to the starter

I will be checking the following items:
Rechecking all electrical connections from battery to the starter
Ground connection
Ignition switch for corrossion or false connections

I will look for a mechanic to check the following:(I have limited skills)
Ignition timing
starter slave solenoid (I may try to change this myself if difficulty level and parts price make sense.)
starter ring on the flywheel

Thanks for all your answers/advice. Let me know if you think it could be something else.

Rafael

[Uncle Fester]

Just ad something like tis happen to me on our gathering at Chelan a couple of weeks ago. Went like this:

Turn key and hear beeps and hit the starter and just a click.
Turn key off and back to on and no beep and the gauges were'nt responding.

Turn off master battery switch and back on.
Turn key and hear beeps and hit the starter and just a click.

Told myself it couldn't be the batteries because I just bought them Memorial weekend. But I still got under the hatch and checked the tightness of the nuts.

I had corrosion when I replaced the batts and I cleaned it up reall good. Only thing I can figure out is that the connectors built a little corrosion on them that wouldn't allow enough current to the starter and I had to reset the master on/off to be able to try again.

After I removed and inspected the terminals and cleaned them again the problem went away.

Scary feeling wen your floating along and the wind is pushing you to shore and you can't get things started. Makes you loose trust in the reliability of things. Also makes you more aware of an emergency action plan in case it happens again. I'm buying a paddle before I go back out on the water again.

[Chili 18]

A paddle could be useful. But always keep an anchor on board. Better than drifting into bad stuff with no power.

When you all clean the terminals on the battery and the other ends of the cables. Important that even if it looks clean, to use a wire brush and scuff up the metal posts and the cable end insides. Corrosion can be invisible... Just because it isn’t covered in white and colored stuff, doesn’t mean current can flow without resistance...
.
Also. the cable end connections can fail. As can the cables themselfs. Thou less common than just needing a cleaning.

[MOP]

I'm with the guys that are cleaning terminals and grounds, it has been fine since the battery was reinstalled.

[DJ13]

You could also have a starter that is going bad. I had a starter "freeze" on me last year. We pulled the starter and a mechanic friend took it apart, took some channel locks to the main shaft and worked it loose. We shot some WD40 in there, reassembled and tested it. Worked fine for another couple months, then froze again. This time, I knew what the problem was and just replaced the starter. It had stopped working on me a total of 3 times. The first time I thought it was batteries and replaced them. The second time we did the "rebuild," and the third time just replaced it. Hope that's all thats wrong in your case!