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View Full Version : SOLAS vs ULTRA,...part one...visual comparisons



Lenny
06-15-2005, 11:04 PM
OK, this is going to be the start of an INDEPTH report on the two props, spinning on an old 280 Volvo and comparisons, many, as to ride, speed, handling and attitude.

First off, as I am too busy to run it, is the visual comparisons. There is no comparison. I have about 1/16" of clearance to the torque tab with the Solas and about 3/4" with the Ultra. Also, the ears on the SOLAS are HUGE. Lots more to follow. This is the first post. :)

I am going to "fillet" the torque tab as I have two to mess with. This will provide some clearance I hope.

Pic #1, the Ultra and its clearance

Pic#2 the Ultra and next the Solas

Pic#3 the SOLAS and then the Ultra

Pic#4 the Solas and its Torque tab clearance

Pic#5 the Solas and its near perfect alignment with the bottom of the skeg... :eek: Keep in mind that drive is trimmed in third hole so they are basically the same in relationship. Bottom of one is bottom of the other.


...in pic #3 you can see the completed (without fairing or paint) bench seat X-18. That is all you get so far ;) :D

THE NUMBERS (this is a future spreadsheet)

VOLVO 280 1:61 DRIVE

ULTRA 24" RH RPMS SPEED GPS SLIP

2nd HOLE

24"P RH 2000
2500
3000
3500
4000
4500
5000
WOT ????

3RD HOLE

24"P RH 2000
2500
3000
3500
4000
4500
5000
WOT ????


SOLAS 21"P LH RPMS SPEED GPS SLIP

2ND HOLE 2000
2500
3000
3500
4000
4500
5000
WOT ????

3RD HOLE

2000
2500
3000
3500
4000
4500
5000
WOT ????

mattyboy
06-16-2005, 05:44 AM
Lenny,
really looking fwd to your outcome , there are a few interested bystanders here,

the solas looks similar to my custom spinnelli but has a few design features left out like the flare ring on the hub?? which i think is a good thing the boat is more stabile and less torques steer with the ultra than the spinelli
just a thought have you tried the drive with out the tab in?? Kenny runs the cig that way and no real torque steer at all with a 24 lh ultra, I would try it on mine but I would need the round blank to cover the exhaust chamber in the drive which without would not be real hydrodynamic
also remember there are 2 sizes of thrust washer that might move the prop fwd enough not have to shave the tab

good luck keep us posted

tmdog
06-16-2005, 07:18 PM
I think your Volvo is going to love the big blade prop. :D

onesubdrvr
11-20-2005, 04:50 PM
Lenny, was wondering if you ever got the testing done, and if so, what were the results??

Thanks
Wayne

Tony
11-20-2005, 09:34 PM
My 24" Ultra is smooth under way, with less steering torque, but I am able to spin it if I am heavy on the throttle. It doesn't seem to "bite" the water...of course I am pushing 300+ horsies into it. It does give me a slightly higher top speed, though.

My big-assed (-eared) aluminum 21" prop gives me an awesome hole shot, great mid-range pop (wake-jumping!), and does better with a full boatload of people. I had SIX in my 16' last summer and it performed beautifully.

My drive is a Volvo AQ200b (1.51:1). If the Solas is similar in shape to my aluminum 21" (it looks like it is...) I would be interested in giving it a try some day...or possibly a 23" pitch.

mattyboy
11-21-2005, 08:20 AM
yes i am still interested in the outcome of this testing,
I would like to hear form the prop guru's about the effect the shape of the hub has on the boat, notice the ultra hub where the blades met the hub has a tapper to it where the solas is the same diameter fron to back, also what effect does the larger blade area and shape have besides bite, I have larger round ear props that just torque the boat from side to side or bend the boat way out of shape at wot

I run a 22 ultra to around 5000
I run a 25 cleaver to around 4300
I run the 21 spinelli to around 5100
I run the 23 round alum to around 4800
I have not gps all of them best I saw was 55.7 with the ultra

the ultra gives the best performance in all water and load conditions, the cleaver gives a fast cruise speed at 3000 rpm but blows out alot in rough water at slower speeds and in turns, the spinelli gives great holeshot and pulls arms from sockets when water skiing, but is way to hairy at wot and the round ear alum makes it chine walk at 3000 rpms or higher oh and all of the props except the ultra porpoise to some extent with out the tabs

the facts
351w 300hp
volvo 250 1.61:1
nose cone
spinning left cause we all know left is faster ;)

Marlin275
11-21-2005, 10:05 AM
Didn't work out at all
remember this follow up post?

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=40474&highlight=Solas+prop

From Lenny

SOLAS test postponed, what a nightmare I had...
OK, so it is Fathers Day and no one phoned me ( an "ex" and teenagers) So I decide to go out in the boat. I put the new SOLAS on, changed direction etc. I get 4 adults together, (ok, 3 and me )
The weather is PERFECT. Sunny, clear, about 75 D. 10 mile an hour wind at WORST. A foot of chop.
So, we put the boat in the water at the ramp, and everyone gets on board. Basically a sunken looking X-18 at the dock .
We fire itup, take off and try to get up on plane... NOOO WAAAYYYY. The SOLAS 21 blows-out as the bow tries to fall. Everytime. So after about 3 minutes I turn around and go back to the dock/ramp. I lower the "pin" from hole three to hole two. Tighten it all back up.
NOW, here is the focal point. !!!
The tilt pump decided not to work so we through a rope under the leg, (sank the rope) and pulled up the leg. There is where I did the adjustment. Then, when done, my buddy lowered the leg and untied the rope from the rear lift ring.
Then we left again. It got on plane no problem, but the bow was way lower than I would have liked it. Causes a lot of problems surfing and quartering at speed. The cavitation was still there but no wheres near as bad. The other nuance I didn't like was the boat (prop spinning left) was hell bent to put the starboard side in the water and heel. I moved two grown adults to port in the rear seat and she still stayed like that. My RPMS with the Ultra 14" x 24" , at 19% slip, were 5300-ish. Best I could do today was 4300...with a 15 5/8" x 21 SOLAS Also, there was a vibration, of which I have NEVER HAD ANY that would hum through your feet, through the hull and make what seemed like an audible noise in the boat. It was gross.
NOW READ THIS.
After we changed the drive trim setting and re-lowered it on the second pin to begin again it would seem as tho, the torque tab went sideways...90 degrees to the prop. This loosened it and then it was a "noisemaker" for the prop to smash at whenever it wanted. It was literally rotating and getting smacked by the prop.
I found this out at the end of the day, (GREAT DAY), but on puling it from the ramp on the trailer I could not believe my eyes.
So, long story short, GRIZZ,, I am sorry, let me get it fixed tommorrow and I will try again. It is the top 3/4" of each blade, only two of the three are toast.
The problems and the buss and the right side dive could be this prop or they could be this prop AFTER I wrecked it. It all happened immediately.
So, as a side note, these props BITE !!!
With ALL the damage, I ran, ( 5 minutes prior to pulling it out) 3950-4000 rpms and 47 GPS MPH. The slip there is non-existent. I lost a 1000 rpms tho with the same motor AND went down from a 24" ULTRA to a 21" SOLAS.
There is a lot more to do here to be sure.

mattyboy
11-21-2005, 10:14 AM
nope missed that one that was while I was up at the dustoff

Lenny
11-22-2005, 09:07 AM
I got that thing fixed. I never tried it again. I need a NEW style of torque tab as it is WAAAAYYYYY too close to the original. In fact, if the torque tab is straight, it WILL hit it anyways. The problem is in reverse, when the prop changes shape a hair and that is all it takes to smash into the Torwue tab.
Something new is needed or remove it all together.

41 degrees out, 42 degree water, no windshield,... I don't think so... :(

penbroke
11-22-2005, 09:29 AM
Lenny: Will it work with my type tab on a 200/250/270 drive? I can re-shape it a bit if need be....


Frank
11 month Vermont boater.

Lenny
11-22-2005, 09:36 AM
Lenny: Will it work with my type tab on a 200/250/270 drive? I can re-shape it a bit if need be....
Frank
11 month Vermont boater.

...NOT IF YOU HAVE THE BIG PLASTIC THINGY...

It basically all but requires the removal of the torque tab, or a new design that moves the actual fin BACK about 1/2"... Grizz has it working somehow, but on my 280, with two styles of tabs, it will hit both if the tab is straight back. :( I do remember it had way less torque steer at mid throttle tho. Almost hands off at 3000 rpms as opposed to having to turn Green and resemble the "HULK" with the Ultra on mine.

penbroke
11-22-2005, 08:31 PM
...NOT IF YOU HAVE THE BIG PLASTIC THINGY...

What big plastic thingy would that be??

It seems like we ought to be able to come up with something that works. What drive does Grizz have it on? 270 and older OR 280 and newer?


Frank

mattyboy
11-22-2005, 08:49 PM
Frank,
the big rubber thingy would be the stock tab which also doubled as an exhaust port on non thru hull boats

penbroke
11-22-2005, 08:57 PM
Ahhh. Thanks Matty. My lemon exhaust outlet is/was all metal. It didn't have the rubber flap. The leading edge of my tab is well behind where the "lemon" was. I expect it would work with the Solas prop but the tab is for 270 and older drives and I have no info on the props other that what's here...


Frank

MOP
11-22-2005, 09:17 PM
The problem is in reverse, when the prop changes shape a hair and that is all it takes to smash into the Torwue tab.

I doubt if the prop flexing is the problem, how much end play is in your prop shaft? The prop should not be moving much more than a 1/16" when you pul back and forth on the prop. Is the play you have in the shaft or the prop on the shaft? Another thing looking at the pic it looks as if the prop does not go on far enough, maybe a different spacer is needed.

Phil

mattyboy
11-22-2005, 09:51 PM
MOP,
as I said back in june there are 2 size thrust washers long hub and short hub, use the wrong one with the wrong prop and the prop is either to close to the zinc anode ring or too far and it hits the torque tab

here's a long hub with a short thrust washer it hit the zinc ring around the shaft
Thank god I turned by hand after tightening it up http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2484&d=1083203673


heres my H/M tab that's a 14 1/2 X25 chopper prop
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5586&d=1093186534


now granted that is a 250 cavitation plate the 270 is almost the same and the newer 280 and 290 went to a different cavitation plate incorporating the exhaust thru the plate it self
like Lenny's

penbroke
11-22-2005, 09:56 PM
What's that prop Matty? Got any specifics? How does it run?

Frank

mattyboy
11-22-2005, 10:08 PM
the first prop is a brand new out of the box 23 volvo alum long shaft it makes boat go up down side to side not good
the SS prop is a chopper prop run by several members on the board at one time or the other bertramboy,stevie marr now me and kenny , keeps my rpm's down, nice mid range cruise 34 mph at 3000 rpm but only pushes the boat to a top speed controlably at around 4300 rpm and around 51 mph at 4301rpm I **** my pants or I get a cramp in my arm not from torque steer but from marie punching me with her wedding ring

penbroke
11-22-2005, 10:26 PM
Matty: You NEED an Ultra. Trust me... 24" if you got the ponies to swing it. I've got a 22" you can try... or you can try my 24" off my boat when next we meet...


Frank

mattyboy
11-22-2005, 10:36 PM
Frank I have a 22 Ultra that will go out this winter to be worked to have a more stout hub( i spun it ) and maybe go to a 23 Pitch maybe more if they can do it

penbroke
11-23-2005, 07:52 AM
:cool: Where will you send it? I'd like to get my 22 tuned up as well. I'm thinking 23" would be just about right. Let me know how it works out...


Frank

mattyboy
11-23-2005, 08:10 AM
I have heard good things about
Hale propellor in CT
I'll keep you posted

MOP
11-23-2005, 10:35 AM
Sorry Matty I did not read your post, I know well of the spacers figured he knew about them due to the many posts up here. It was the movement of the shaft or prop that concerned me. Another thing I have run into a couple of times was getting a prop that the hub was not fully seated which sets the prop back a little.

Phil

mattyboy
11-23-2005, 11:18 AM
plus looking at the pics again Lenny's cav plate looks shorter than mine

( wow that didn't sound right ;) :) :p )