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gcarter
05-27-2005, 12:57 PM
last weekend in Kentucky. Five times the Minx would roll over on the left side. Three of the times while getting on plane. Twice while going straight while on plane. Once while going about 30 MPH, and the worst, while going about 50 MPH. It was as though the hand of God reached down and rolled the boat over on the left side. It stayed there till I chopped the power. It was very scary. Elaines elbow was in the water, remember the Minx has an extraordinary amout of freeboard for a Donzi. The other girl in the back seat fell on top of Elaine and both girls almost went into the water. The person running behind us said it looked very strange.
So here are the particulars;
I wasn't using any tabs.
The tabs work perfectly.
The boat has 14 hours on it since the restorartion.
The U-Joints had just started making some noise at full lock, but no other time.
I've asked Poodle and Trueser for their opinions;
Gimbal bearing
Engine alignment
Steering cable
cable joint on steering cable
So this is what I've found so far;
Gimbal bearing is excellant, smooth and plenty of grease.
Alignment is certainly acceptable, it may be down one thread at the front mounts. But I have no problem getting the alignment tool in.
Some of the front mount bolts were loose, one on port side, maybe both on stbd side ( I haven't gotten there yet). I'm replacing the 3/8" bolts with 7/16" bolts w/ jam nuts instead of Ny-locks that have already loosened in the past.
Checked steering slop, maybe 1/4" at the rear of the cavitation plate.
Checked rotational play in the drive around the input shaft axis (movement in the gimbal ring) none.
I'm replacing U-joints this weekend.
Rear mount bolts are tight, but I haven't checked torque yet.
Guys, I need some serious help here. I've not experienced anything like this before. Elaine says she won't ride again till I find something wrong and fix it.
It was a very disconcerting experience.
Any ideas?

Cuda
05-27-2005, 01:22 PM
Did the boat tend to track straight when it happened, or did it try to go into a turn?

BUIZILLA
05-27-2005, 01:27 PM
A short in the trim tab switch...

Cuda
05-27-2005, 01:31 PM
Jim might be on to something there. Yesterday was the first time I ever used the tabs on my Minx, and I can tell you it's VERY sensetive to tabs. Skeered me a little yesterday.

gcarter
05-27-2005, 01:35 PM
A short in the trim tab switch...
Jim, I've thought about that, a lot. My question is, if that were the problem, then when I physically checked the tab position, wouldn't the offending tab still be down?

gcarter
05-27-2005, 01:38 PM
Did the boat tend to track straight when it happened, or did it try to go into a turn?
No, straight. Except, of course for torque steer (I don't have a trim tab behind the prop).
I guess I would have to say I don't think so. But I'm always steering to the right a little.

Ranman
05-27-2005, 02:15 PM
If the issue is as pronounced as you are describing, I bet it has something to do with the tabs. Can you tie them up, remove, or otherwise limit downward travel to test?

This may be silly, but is the hull bottom straight and true? Do you have an obscene amount of weight on one side?

gcarter
05-27-2005, 02:37 PM
Randy, I must admit, it acts EXACTLY like a tab down. It would be easy enough to pull the tab fuse. The bottom is kind of like every other Donzi bottom, a little hook on both sides, but pretty symetrical.
But it NEVER did it before.
I'm going to finish this work I've already started, and dis-able the tabs. If it never happens again, I'll know I've found the problem.
It just irks my engineering background if I can't find something wrong that's repeatable. And Elaine will always be fearful if I can't definatively determine the source of the problem.
You know, it takes three wires (power, port or stbd, forward or reverse) to be connected to start a particular action in the tabs. It takes a different combination of three wires to retract the same tab. What are the odds?
Hopefully I figure it out.

txtaz
05-27-2005, 02:48 PM
George, If it tracks straight when it happens, it must be the tabs. There is nothing else that would throw the attitude off like that. Are all screw tight? Loose pins? Play in the hydraulics or air? resevoir full?
Get it fixed, Elaine wants a ride....LOL
Wes

gcarter
05-27-2005, 02:50 PM
Get it fixed, Elaine wants a ride....LOL
Wes
I'm not sure she does right now.

BUIZILLA
05-27-2005, 03:01 PM
George, take the rocker switch out, open it up, and you'll see why I said that... i've had it happen to me before. The rocker contactors may come loose from the back of the rocker itself internally, and they WILL cross over two terminals, setting one or both tabs in motion. The rocker can also come off it's pivot pin if the housing has been damaged at some point or previously opened up, and not closed back up properly. Very rare, but it can happen... The Minx is actually top heavy with the high freeboard sides, and narrow beam, so it doesn't take much to make it roll over on it's rail... I can take my old Minx, and roll water right up to, or over, the windshield frame very easily, if I wanted to. If it happens as fast as you say it is, then BOTH tabs are moving at the same time, one up and one down... which strengthen's my cross-contact theory even more...

JH

mattyboy
05-27-2005, 03:25 PM
George ,
that happened to me a few times when i had the tabs down unevenly to adjust for my fat ass when i landed or it a wake on the side of the tab deflected the the most it would catch and like a big tiller shift the boat that way

gcarter
05-27-2005, 03:57 PM
George, take the rocker switch out, open it up, and you'll see why I said that... i've had it happen to me before. The rocker contactors may come loose from the back of the rocker itself internally, and they WILL cross over two terminals, setting one or both tabs in motion. The rocker can also come off it's pivot pin if the housing has been damaged at some point or previously opened up, and not closed back up properly. Very rare, but it can happen... The Minx is actually top heavy with the high freeboard sides, and narrow beam, so it doesn't take much to make it roll over on it's rail... I can take my old Minx, and roll water right up to, or over, the windshield frame very easily, if I wanted to. If it happens as fast as you say it is, then BOTH tabs are moving at the same time, one up and one down... which strengthen's my cross-contact theory even more...

JH
Jim, I sure do see what your getting at. The fact that these are brand new Carling water proof switches probably don't make any difference.
Two switches, one port, one stbd.
On the plus side, it would be easy to change switches. :smash:

BUIZILLA
05-27-2005, 04:09 PM
Trace your red/ green wires from the pump to the solenoid(s)..... one leg of that solenoid can energize if it's bad... the old style merc solenoid's could do that, but i've never heard of a new style small body solenoid doing it, if you have those. The switch I was referencing was the old style black Bennett combo rocker that is NOT sealed from the elements. Make sure your Carlings have a distinct, and very positive, neutral detent position.

JH

gcarter
05-27-2005, 04:16 PM
Jim, I think it would be worthwhile to change the stbd switch. They're not that expensive.

gcarter
05-27-2005, 05:09 PM
G,
do you have an auto-retract module??
No, standard Bennett refurb pump.

MOP
05-27-2005, 06:48 PM
George just got back from an out of towner was thinking of what you told me happened!!!! Try this back on the hydraulic unit right near where the cable goes in you will find a grease fitting, this fitting is used to grease the shuttle vavle in the power steering. If the shuttle valve is the least sticky it will cause what you have discribed. Give it two shot with a grease gun and try it out, I remembered this happening many years back to one of my customers. Sorry for taking so long to think of it it comes woth the territory my brain is in now!@

The fitting in on the unit its self!!!!

Phil

gcarter
05-27-2005, 06:54 PM
Phil, my PS unit is new, and come to think of it, I don't think I've greased it.
Thanks for the reccomendation.

:wavey:

gcarter
05-27-2005, 09:26 PM
I'm staying open minded. I need to fix this thing.

MOP
05-27-2005, 10:37 PM
George give it a couple of shots with the gun, make sure it ozzes out of the assemlby then ocilate the steering wheel back and forth a dozen or so times. Standing with the hatch open you should be able to see the cable move from side to side about 7/8" that moves the shuttle vavle to direct the pressure to the direction needed. Bet you a 6 that that fixes it.

Phil

Hotspare
05-29-2005, 09:52 AM
I owned a MINK for a little over 3 yrs, and had the same thing happen, one time ,,,,,,, never happened again .......

As I remember, it scared the heck out of me, however my copilot thought it was pretty cool ......... I shut it down before we went all the way over ,,,,,, or at least that's where I thought we were heading ..............

I traced it back many times with my super intelect like a CSI detective and figured this one out ............ I'd been running all day ,,,,,,,,, Flawless, trying to race anybody around, you know ................ After a while of this I Flew her back to a cove to refresh the bodily fluids ............. While there, saw a friend of mine on another boat ............. He spotted me coming in ........ This was before Cell Phone's and stuff ........ So he was yelling for me to come pick him up for a run .......... It was hard to understand from that distance and all the boom boxes going ........ So he dives in and starts heading over, which looked to be a quarter mile swim ............ So anyway he finally gets there ,,,,,,,,,,, Hangs on the transom for a while to gain strength ...... He knows getting aboard that boat is a little tricky ............... No platform ........... only (TABS) and outdrive to stand and/or thrust off to get in ............ I always told people to stay off the tabs, and they always said they did ........... But this time, Tarzan was out of breath and cheated ............. He stood on the right tab for a while before thrusting off to get in .............. So anyway,,,,, He finally gets in and we take off right now like ............... I nailed it and felt a little out of CG at first but nothing to worry about, just accelerate through it Right ...... NOT !!!!!! She rolled so fast to the left that I nearly froze ........ I mean all the way over, the water was only inches from me ....... But,I cut the power and saved us .................. I looked over at TARZAN ..... He Grinning from ear to ear,,,, Like he'd just done Jane ........ I said Dude ,,,,,, were you standing on the tap .............. NooooooooP !!!!!!!!!!! But I think he was ......... Anyway I jumped in to chek it out but looked normal ,,,,,,,,,, Never had the problem again ............... No real proof that it was a tab ,,,,,,, but I think it was in this case ....................... Good Luck ........

gcarter
05-29-2005, 03:16 PM
Well, I'm leaning toward the stbd trim tab (pun intended), because there doesn't seem to be anything else wrong.
This is what I've found and done;
Replaced 3/8" bottom mount bolts with 7/16" w/ jam nuts.
Put jam nuts (with blue thread locker) on top of mount studs.
Tightened up EVERYTHING I found loose. The shift bracket was about to fall off the riser, resecured it w/ blue thread locker.
Gimbal bearing is very smooth and well greased.
Alignment is good. No trouble inserting tool.
U-joints are smooth and tight, and now VERY well greased.
Removed some Lake Cumberland wood from my SST Gaffrig Speedo pickup, I guess I wasn't aware Gaffrig was into bathing suits, but since they can no longer make good gauges, I guess they have to do something for income. :rlol:
Tomorrow i'll put the drive back on and test drive it w/ the tab fuse removed.
I'll order a new Carling switch next for the stbd tab.

gcarter
05-29-2005, 06:22 PM
Did I mention these are Victory tabs?

Zudnic
05-30-2005, 10:51 PM
Did you get the handling problem solved?

smoothie
06-03-2005, 08:47 AM
Hey carter is the jury still out on this one...just curious as to what the problem was?

gcarter
06-03-2005, 12:54 PM
Hi Rick;
So far I've found nothing concerning the engine alignment, or mounts, steering, gimbal bearing, U-joints, ETC.
So I guess the only thing that leaves is tabs.
The tab switches are new Carling waterproof rockers, but the problem may be there. In the mean time I'm going to pull the tab fuse, but I'm going to replace the stbd switch w/ a new one.
Another thing is I don't believe I ever bled the air out of the hydraulic lines. These tabs operate on such low pressure that they operate fine, but I'll bleed them this weekend.

joseph m. hahnl
06-04-2005, 09:32 AM
.[/QUOTE]

George: with all this mystery going on you probably have your mind and hands full. my minxs is comming along very nicley. and with the exception of a few panel switch rockers and electrical connections. she,s pretty much ready for a run. I was wondering about the engine cover hindges. do you now where i could get new replacment ones . i've only been able to find 2 hole one's and i,m also afraid they're not the right kind.

joe

ps: what about the trim tab on your out drive? is it positioned correctly

gcarter
06-04-2005, 05:19 PM
.

George: with all this mystery going on you probably have your mind and hands full. my minxs is comming along very nicley. and with the exception of a few panel switch rockers and electrical connections. she,s pretty much ready for a run. I was wondering about the engine cover hindges. do you now where i could get new replacment ones . i've only been able to find 2 hole one's and i,m also afraid they're not the right kind.

joe

ps: what about the trim tab on your out drive? is it positioned correctly[/QUOTE]
Hi Joe, I don't have a tab on the drive. There's constant right steering torque.
I found a plater in Orlando, and I'm taking the hinges and lifting rings, and trim rings in on Monday. He said one week turnaround. I'll keep you posted.

gcarter
06-05-2005, 04:14 PM
Elaine and I took the Minx out in the early afternoon. We had about 1/2 hour of boating w/ the tab fuse removed before it started raining. We had no incidents at all.
Next week I'll order a new Carling tab switch.
I had to use the old Quicksilver 23" cleaver the boat came with. It's a nasty looking prop. I'm finding out how important overall prop condition is as the boat still won't rev over 4500 RPM. :frown:

onesubdrvr
06-18-2005, 06:47 PM
George,

Was that the final diagnosis on your trim problem? a shorted switch? Suwanee River today with no problems?

Just curious, hoping every one gets there bugs worked out
Wayne

gcarter
06-18-2005, 08:37 PM
Today the river was full of junk. Kind of like Lake Cumberland. We had to start and stop quite a bit. The boat did very well. Then for about 10 minutes, it was up to its old tricks. I had Elaine sit in the middle of the back seat for awhile and it didn't do it any more. We went into a spring and checked it out, tabs, drive, prop, bottom. Nothing. Later Elaine sat in the passanger seat and it no longer did it. Go figure.
I spoke with Brian Kamrath the other day, he is going to send me a set of shorter set of tabs. They will be just like the Victory tabs, only a little longer than the stock Bennetts.
I know rhat I will figure it out. :confused:

MOP
06-19-2005, 12:14 AM
George no tab fuse and it still did it for about 10 minutes? I still feel you have an issue with the power steering ram, either shuttle valve is out of adjustment or it is sticky. Having a very hard time thinking the tabs are doing funny things!

Phil

smoothie
06-20-2005, 04:49 PM
George...now that everything has been said and done I can tell ya that Tom had the same problem with his Minx when we had it out for the first time...when he hit the gas the boat kept wanting to do donuts to the left,right away we thought engine mounts or trim tabs,checked both and was a ok,he tried one more time and got on plane but then it was all he could do to keep it from pulling to the left,,,so I told him to let me give it a try,I got her up on plane and hit the trim button and away we went,handled like a champ in some sloppy water with a mirage,so I stopped and left the trim the same and hit the gas and she took right off,we played this game again over the weekend just to make sure this was what it was before I posted and sure enough we were doing donuts again with the trim all the way in.after that he trimed it out and pulled his daughter up and around the lake slalom sking...hope this helps!

Cuda
06-20-2005, 05:36 PM
George...now that everything was been said and done I can tell ya that Tom had the same problem with his Minx when we had it out for the first time...when he hit the gas the boat kept wanting to do donuts to the left,right away we thought engine mounts or trim tabs,checked both and was a ok,he tried one more time and got on plane but then it was all he could do to keep it from pulling to the left,,,so I told him to let me give it a try,I got her up on plane and hit the trim button and away we went,handled like a champ in some sloppy water with a mirage,so I stopped and left the trim the same and hit the gas and she took right off,we played this game again over the weekend just to make sure this was what it was before I posted and sure enough we were doing donuts again with the trim all the way in.after that he trimed it out and pulled his daughter up and around the lake salom sking...hope this helps!
That's the same thing Budman said this weekend.

gcarter
06-23-2005, 03:10 PM
that my problem centers around the fact I never bled the air from the hydraulic line to the stbd tab.
Most of you probably know the Bennett ram uses a spring return. When you raise the tab electrically, the solenoid for that side opens and the pump motor freewheels in reverse.
In fact, if there's air in the line (like mine), you can push down on the tab and it will pop back up on its spring.
Now here's my hypothesis;
Under certain conditions, the waterflow moving past the transom would contact the tab surface, generate suction, pull the stbd tab down and upset the trim. This coulod probably happen at any time.
The solution is, bleed the air from the line! With the line completely purged, the tab would be unable to move on its own, solving the problem.
Unlike Ricks friends problem, my boat goes straight. It's never veered to the left.
Anyway below is a pic of the stbd tab on the trailer.

BUIZILLA
06-23-2005, 04:32 PM
the solenoid for that side opens and the pump motor freewheels in reverse.
George, can you expand on this theory...

JH

gcarter
06-23-2005, 05:05 PM
George, can you expand on this theory...

JH
Sure Jim, you may remember when I first started using the boat, I had trim pump problems. When energised, the fuse would blow every time. I called Bennett and described the problem Their first suggestion was to run wires direct from the battery to the connector at the pump. But more specifically to the motor reverse wire (I don't remember the color) which "when energised, freewheels in reverse". In other words, you can run the motor in reverse continuously.
Now, I've not disassembled one of their pumps, only taking them at their word.
BTW, the problem turned out to be the way Ultra Panel Marine wired the trim panel and it was an easy fix.

gcarter
06-23-2005, 05:09 PM
Err,


no..

The Bennett tabs can be pushed down by hand at any time.... Matter of fact, I just walked out and did four of them, none of which need bleeding... AIR, the system is self purging BTW...
Hmmmmm.....I've not disassembled one of the rams, but how is it that you can push down a tab with its cylinder full of an incompressible fluid?

smoothie
06-23-2005, 06:54 PM
George,the fluid is on top of the piston pushing down only and a spring pushes the piston,tab back up so when the tab is in the up position (no fluid) you can push the tab down by hand compressing the spring,let go and the spring pushes the piston,tab back to the up position.

MOP
06-23-2005, 07:57 PM
Bennets are self bleeding, George I have installed many many sets and have never ever done anything but cycle them several times and refill the the tank. The return spring pushes the air out all by them selves, no way will the water suck a tab down they will just stay up from the spring pressure. The action you spoke of was very fast, tabs do not act that fast, and the fact that it happened at low and cruise speed kind of rules them out. I still say go over the adjustment on the steering ram and grease the shuttle valve, like I told you that is the only thing that I have ever seen that will jerk a boat to one side or the other quicky at varying speeds.

Direct from the Bennet installation instructions!
Step 14 - Using the control, hold the "Bow Down" position for 15 seconds, then "Bow Up" for 15 - 20 seconds. Repeat 3 times. This will purge any air from the system. No bleeding is necessary.

Phil

gcarter
06-23-2005, 08:04 PM
Oh well, on to the next theory.....

MOP
06-23-2005, 09:01 PM
George get the book out and go over the centering adjustment and grease the fitting I told you about, I really think your problem will be history. I don't have a flat bed scanner or I would shot you the instructions, it is about a 30 minute job. If you do not have the book call me early I read it to you, a few notes will get you through.

Phil

penbroke
06-23-2005, 09:07 PM
George,the fluid is on top of the piston pushing down only and a spring pushes the piston,tab back up so when the tab is in the up position (no fluid) you can push the tab down by hand compressing the spring,let go and the spring pushes the piston,tab back to the up position.
When you push the tab down by hand is the fluid allowed to flow and fill the volume at the top of the cylinder?? Otherwise you would be creating a vacuum and wouldn't be able to move it very far. If you push it down by hand does it stay there or return to where it was?? The spring can only move the tab back up if the fluid is allowed to flow back to the tank thru the valve which with no power should be closed??

Frank :confused:
I need to play with my tabs... :rolleyes:

MOP
06-23-2005, 10:19 PM
I don't think any fluid is pulled past the vavle body not sure, I think between the spring and maybe some vacuum it is some powerful! Try it that sucker is tough to hold down and goes right back to where it was set. I have had a tool or two sitting on a tab and used it as a step ladder if your foot slips off the tools get catapulted and scattered several feet away.

Phil

gcarter
06-23-2005, 10:22 PM
As far as the freewheeling goes, from the same instructions...

[/size][/font]
Scott, I know it says this, but you can try this;
Run the pump down with the solenoid closed...it will bog and stop when the pressure builds up. But run the pump in reverse with the solenoid closed and it runs without any load. I know because I did it. This was also what Bennett suggested.

Trueser
06-23-2005, 10:51 PM
George,
If you think you still have a tab problem then pull the tabs off and see how it runs. If you still have a problem I would find someone close with another drive. Or drive on up and we can throw parts at it.



Talk with you soon.

Mike

gcarter
07-02-2005, 05:58 PM
I was thinking today as I cleared the Gaffrig speedo pitot tube once again.
Both of the incidents (AOTH and the Suwanee River trip) were in flood water filled with drift wood. Speaking of drift wood, when I got back from Kentucky, I had to drill the wood out of the pitot with a # 60 drill bit it was packed in so tight.
Now my through transom water pickup (Stainless Marine) is only a few inches outside of the pitot (see photo).
So here's the theory; I picked up some wood on the water pickup and that upset the trim.
Several years ago I rented a house in Marathon that came with a 24' center console with a 150 HP OB. It had a depthsounder transducer located on a transom bracket at the chine. When running full speed (about 35 MPH) it would trim over to the port side and run flat on the side of the Vee. Very frustrating, but it wasn't my boat so I couldn't do anything about it.
So what do you think of this theory?

penbroke
07-02-2005, 10:29 PM
Is there enough of an edge there to catch and hold something? It would explain a lot but it seems unlikely to repeat itself on several outings??

Frank

gcarter
07-02-2005, 10:32 PM
With the two of them so close together, yes there is.
It's only happened in those two locations with a lot of wood in the water.

mattyboy
07-02-2005, 10:42 PM
let me get this straight this is a dead wood issue???? :rolleyes:

penbroke
07-02-2005, 10:45 PM
Do you think the two pickups are working together to snag stuff? It seems unlikely to repeat but it's easy enough to pull the speedo pickup for a while to try, or move it to the other side. Most of the ones I have seen are mounted in brackets that release the pickup with any inpact or excess drag.

I pulled my speedo pickup off just to reduce the number of holes in the transom. Besides I already know I wish it was faster! :biggrin:


Frank

gcarter
07-02-2005, 11:05 PM
The pitot is a rigid "J" shape that sticks below the hull about 3/4". The water pickup isn't as likely to catch something but also sticks down about 3/4".
I think what I need to do is stay out of flooded waterways.
BTW, while on the Suwanee, something large hit the drive. There was a loud BANG, but no damage was done other than some scratches.

Dalelama
07-03-2005, 08:20 AM
George,

I,ve experienced the same problem with my old MINX and it actually happened last night in Kenny's MINX.... the ONLY time it's happend with me there were 4 or 5 people in the boat.

Jim's explination makes sense, but why would the switch short only when full/over-loaded? I never had a high speed occurance, only @ low speed, and making a turn. So that might explain it... and I know exactly what you mean... it feels like it's going to go all the way over, but when on it's side it tracks straight... amazing it wont go turtle.

So my situations were most likley "pilot error" (Overlaoded). But I would definatley check your switches!

picklefish
07-03-2005, 01:11 PM
At 30 MPH, a boat with a heavy inboard/outboard should be sitting deeply enough in the water to not have it's side to side stability easiy effected, so it must be something major. Of course, when your going faster and up on the keel almost anything can throw a boat on its side, though the good ones recover quickly. Anything that has something to do with the steering would also throw the boat into a turn, and anything to do with the hull would happen consistently. That pretty much leaves you with the trim tabs to look at. I would adjust the tabs until I could duplicate the problem to get an idea of what to look for. I'd also make note of the weather conditions because if you've ever owned a volkswagon then you know that humidity can cause the strangest electrical problems. Try to look for some common denominator that might help you predict when the problem might occur so that you can either sit in the stern to see what's happening or have someone, preferably with video camera follow you to see what's going on. There's nothing harder to fix that intermitent problems, especially the electrical kind. If you get lucky and have a day when it's happening frequently perhaps you might be able to put a wire tester on the wires going to the trim tab pumps and see if power is flowing through when it's not supposed to, or just disconnect the wiring and see if that solves the problem.

MOP
07-03-2005, 08:08 PM
I still feel chasing the tab idea is a waste of time, I did this stuff as a marine tech for many years. The action of tabs from one position to another is slow to say the least, true with over sized tabs at speed you can hook one and get the boat on its ear. Georges problem happened a t low to moderate speeds, the only thing that I have run across that can do that is the power steering ram, either the centering adjustment or a sticky shuttle valve. The sticky shuttle valve is usually the culprit, all it takes is a very slight movement of the wheel the valve will release and move the tiller about 1-1/2 to 2" to one side in a split second that motion is equal to about 8 inches of wheel travel. You can duplicate the motion by jerking the wheel about 8 inches in one direction or the other, it take about 3-1/2 turns of the wheel to go lock to lock so 8 inches may be a bit conservative. And YES a shuttle valve can be intermittent, at high speed it can and will scare the crap out of you! Read your manuals about centering and lubrication of the PS ram.

Phil

BUIZILLA
07-03-2005, 08:33 PM
Phil, put down your drink... George has said, time and again, that the boat DOES NOT change direction, it just rolls up on it's keel without warning, maintaining a straight forward direction.... his eye witness reports, from abeam/abaft boats, verify this. No way in hell, this is a steering issue.

JH

gcarter
07-03-2005, 08:38 PM
I have to wonder...

The Minx hull shares some traits with the 22 Classic, and a bit of hull IMO..

The 22 is notorious for standing on it's side also. Too much in trim will give you a ride that equals anything Coney Island has to offer.
Scott I agree about the Minx/22 similarity. The main difference is the extra freeboard and more weight mounted higher. The seats are probably 6" to 8" higher than a 22 Classic.
We went out today w/four aboard, some large people, probably 850# plus over 300# of fuel. Until I finally got the other largest person behind me, the boat drove like a loaded dump truck. Turns below 30 MPH are rediculous. These characteristics changed completely once you got up to speed. Over 40 MPH, it was a delight.

joseph m. hahnl
07-04-2005, 09:16 AM
ahh yahh: what i noticed about my minx is when i come of plane it has a tendency to roll a little to the right. it could be just from my weight. i way 170lbs and my girl ways 98lbs . it takes a little getting use to it . " especialy George with all of your trouble lurking in the back of my mind" the whaler allways stays flat so all this rollling side to side "like a motorcycle" is a little nerve racking but i'm getting more confident every time i go out. juicing it thru the turns adding more rudder for a sharper turn. it's just that comming of plane that kind of still startles me.

what i don't under stand is why you don't have the lower unit trim tab
"zinc anode".may be that has somthing to do with your trouble.
joe

gcarter
07-04-2005, 04:17 PM
The main reason I haven't added a trim tab is I've been trying a few different props and some of them don't allow room for a tab.
Wait till you try to get on plane with 400+ lb of people in the left seats. It makes life interesting.

bgagne
08-19-2016, 04:57 AM
What did you end up finding on this? I am having a similar issue with my minx.

gcarter
08-19-2016, 07:43 AM
What did you end up finding on this? I am having a similar issue with my minx.

I had borrowed a labbed 25" cleaver prop from a friend. The prop was the problem, and then only in heavily loaded
conditions.
After I located a Hydro Q4 15-1/2" X 22" prop, the issue never repeated itself.

Carl C
08-19-2016, 10:22 AM
Ah, finally closure after 11 years! :)

bgagne
08-19-2016, 02:17 PM
That is unfortunate. I was hoping that you found something else. I have the issue with 2 different props, 21 merc mirage and 23 hydro QIV. Need to spend some more time running it to quantify exact scenario, but it seems that if I run it up over 55mph, then slow down (backing off throttle slowly) as the boat settles back into water under 30 mph, it wants to lean completely over to starboard. This is with no tab. you have to turn out of it to port to stop it or deploy tab to bring the port bow down. it is very unsettling to say the least. I will start a new post and lay out my short history with the boat and see what thoughts evolve. it has been a frustrating experience with this boat so far. I previously had a 22c that I put 300 hours on over 7 years and know how to handle a boat. I knew that the minx would be different but did not expect this.

Morgan's Cloud
08-19-2016, 02:37 PM
I've mentioned this before on a different thread a long time ago , but when I finally re-launched my St T after a complete re-build and re-power I was shocked at how awful the handling was with a new Volvo SX-A unit . It was basically undriveable .
I got in contact with Randy (Big Grizz) at that point as he was THE go to guy for prop issues and he sent me a prop to try that he was sure would fix the problem . No improvement at all , and by the way , that prop did have design similarities to the Hydromotive props.

I finally bit the bullet and changed out to a DP drive and what a difference.

That's when it dawned on me , after decades of messing around in many different boats , that we don't realize it but these things are fighting prop torque all the time and some manifest the problem very differently .

Of course , changing out an Alpha to a twin prop unit isn't possible but just thought I'd mention it .

gcarter
08-19-2016, 05:28 PM
I think I remember some reaction like that but not like you're stating.
You may have noticed the Minx's inner strakes are much shorter than
an 18, or 22. It could be the lack of lift on the shorter strakes is the culprit.
Of course planning ahead a little will always help.
One thing the Hydro did was to really stabilize the boat.
I could trim it almost to the limit switch w/out blowing out. I suppose
any Minx would perform similarly. The boat benefited from the higher
trim in performance.
Just a thought, if your boat will trim higher like mine did, and you chop
your throttle, the prop torque would not be in the same axis as the boat.