Sweet 16 Vintage vs. newer

[fastcat]

I am ready to acquire a Classic series Donzi and will be looking for a 16. There is a ’69 available near me that is in great condition, rebuilt engine, new interior, paint, etc. OR do I go for a ’99 in good condition as well. Would like to hear from people that have maybe owned both and can give thoughts on build quality, general ownership, performance, what to look out for in each, etc.

We are certainly not shy about owning classics that may require more tweaking and fiddling as we own classic cars and do most work ourselves (’64 Jaguar XKE, ’72 Chevelle).

Thanks,
FastCat

[Dredgeking]

I bought a '76 16 a couple years ago and dig it. it has a newer crate engine in it which helped with the decision to buy it. i do not like the cheap rigging and parts on the new ones compared to the vintage years. if a vintage hull has an upgraded engine and the hull is in great shape, then i'd go for the vintage over the newer boat. if both boats were brand new, i think build quality is better in the vintage. so, it really comes down to condition. hell, my '99 fountain, i bought it in 2000, was in worse shape than my '76 donzi which i bought in 2003.

[fastcat]

There are good points to both options. I think we'll see which one "feels" right and go from there. Neither decision would be completely bad or wrong.

[DonziNUTS]

I am not sure but does the newer classics have a Hp rating on the hull? I know the older one do not so HP is unlimited.

I could be wrong but I would go vintage!!! Keep the older ones alive!!!

Mike

[Rootsy]

HP rating??? what is that :biggrin:

[Barry Phillips]

The difference between the new and old, is a matter of preference, the hull design of the vintage sweet 16s and the latest models are very similar, unlike the barrel back 18s, (very rare boats) and the latter 18s. The early 18s use a sharp keel at the stern as opposed to the rounded keel on the latter 18s. I just don't know of any 16s that ever used a sharp keel at the stern. As for the rigging and construction the latter boats are better than ever, this is just a matter of modern resins and construction methods. For instance I owned a 98 Classic 18, now a 22. My 22 had to retrofitted with thru hull exhaust and the transom is not cored with wood, I believe this a change for the good, since the less wood in a boat the less rot. My only quip is I would like to see Donzi lose the cheesy Grant steering wheel, I would also like to see the racing style controls, which can be found on just about any sport boat made today, although the standard Mecury piece works pretty well.

[blackhawk]

HP rating??? what is that :biggrin:

Beat me to it! :D

[fastcat]

Need some help here as we need to make a decision on purchasing this boat or a newer (1994) model.-

The '69 we looked at and are interested in buying has what the owner says is the original engine (which has been rebuilt), it is a SBC 350 and has a Jet drive. Red sides, white deck and interior. On the side it says Z DONZI JET. Did they make this boat in '69 with these specs?

Is this boat more or less valuable than the non-jet drive boats?

Thanks

[Rootsy]

photos would be very helpful here... :)

[fastcat]

photos would be very helpful here... :)

Here's a picture

[joseph m. hahnl]

i would think jet drives were not availible in 1969.the out drive is most likely new.
you should consider this: a newer boat will have less fatige on the hull.
" cutting thru chop @ 50 ++" less problems with the electrical wire in the boat .
along with all of the connectors and rocker switches and circut breakers. and the biggest one of all" NO PAINT ON THE HULL" stick with the Gell Coat"
Donzi's do not have an inner and outer hull with foam in between> there is a lot of flex to the hull. ever take a piece of sheet metal that has bin painted and bend it.that right the paint cracks off. even flex paint for plastic.will crack off in the high stress areas where the hull pounds the water.might not do it today but forsure tommorrow.

joe

[joseph m. hahnl]

HP rating??? what is that :biggrin:


insurance liabilty>

[yeller]

About the insurance. I couldn't get insurance for my boat because of the jet drive. Your area may be different, so check 1st. Most insurance companies don't look at the type of hull you have, they just see jet drive and think flat bottom drag boat ie: submarine. It's stupid...around here, if you have a PWC, you can only get insurance if it is a jet drive, but on a boat they consider it to be a liability.:banghead:

That said though...the jet works great on the 16. You'll never need to use the trim tabs. Handling is awesome. Full throttle 180deg turns no problem. Just make sure everyone is holding on tight. :jestera: 17yrs on mine and still going strong. Hardly any parts to break. I've replaced the shaft bearing and bushings a couple times...just because.

[Formula Jr]

The 69 has most likely been painted. "ZDonzi Jet" isn't an original graphic. And the gas fill has been moved.

Options: First you said the other option was a '99 then '94.... which is it?

Given a choice between a Sportskier (Wrap around seating) and a 2+2, I'd go with the 2+2-----unless you have a dog. ;)

The drive is bullet proof, but here are the draw backs to a jet on a Deep Vee:
You will find this barely steerable at slow speeds and no helm once the engine is off and you are drifting.
Jets rob a lot of power. Jets are always on when the motor is running and this makes them wander around at dock while you are warming up.
A jet will not "fly" in the same manner as an outdrive. The intake holds the boat down in the water. Jets also tend to roll but in an entirely different manner than the prop torque reaction of an outdrive.
You can spin out easier in a fast turn.
Getting a rope in the impeller is a bitch.

Other things.
A leaky gas tank means removing the deck. This is less likely with a post nineties boat.

Depends on what you want. A unigue vintage boat that every one wants to see and ride in, or a turn key boat that will not have any major problems for 15 years.

The boat in the picture doesn't have original hardware. Vents are the new cheapies, The stern light holder is modern and the cleats have been added. The lifting rings don't look original either, but thats hard to tell.

[fastcat]

OK- I'm convinced..I've decided against the jet drive boat. One because it's a jet drive and 2, upon close inspection, there are too many "issues" with it.

I've also decided against the '94 (mistakenly typed '99 earlier) because I really want a V8 if for nothing else, for the SOUND! Crazy, I know. So have changed direction completely and am trying to go look at a '73 18 Classic.

It's my birthday present so I'm going for it.

[Formula Jr]

Fastcat, that jet is THE same boat as the one in the model list. I uploaded the donzijet1 photo four years ago from a Boat Trader AD. Its even on the same trailer. If memory serves me, I think they wanted 6K for it then. Since I have never seen another one, for sale or otherwise, and because other aspects of the boat have been altered, I'm thinking that this might be the only one. And not be factory. I couldn't see it clearly in my original photo to see how altered it was. I would like to be able to use the donzijet2 photo if I update the model list. Or drop that drive option altogether if this is the only one.

I've learned that when ever you come across a boat like this one:
No original hardware, Paint, and non typical placement of things like the Gas vent, and Fill, be very, very, very careful, especially if the current owner doesn't know anything about it or will not explain its history. Some people on this board ARE talented enough to take a stripped hull and bring it back to something useable or better than original. The work involved is enormous to do it right.
But then you will also come across the "Odd" collection boat. It may look like a 16 or an 18. It might even have a nice shinny donzi sticker on it. The title, if there is one, may even say Donzi on it. But the serial number wouldn't fit the right pattern, it will have something weird like a Bravo II drive, the carb will be automotive and none of the hardware will make sense. These boats can have major structural problems. When you do find your 18, takes lots of pics. We'll be able to spot anything out of character.

[Lenny]

Fastcat, I would definately buy an 18. It will make you grin till the end of time. 350 a must. And, "big AND, " I would buy a later on 94-present and get an Alpha on back (or Bravo) trim and tilt and all the rest of the niceties that abound in the newer boats.

I am going to be glassing in a transom this winter just so I can have those things that will be on your boat when you buy it.

Spend more now, and you won't have to spend a bunch later.

my $.02.

Good call on the jet boat. Too many non-original things going on and the jet will be a pain in three footers.

[gold-n-rod]

OK- I'm convinced..I've decided against the jet drive boat. One because it's a jet drive and 2, upon close inspection, there are too many "issues" with it.

I've also decided against the '94 (mistakenly typed '99 earlier) because I really want a V8 if for nothing else, for the SOUND! Crazy, I know. So have changed direction completely and am trying to go look at a '73 18 Classic.

It's my birthday present so I'm going for it.

Fastcat, you know what you want, so keep searching until you find it. DO NOT let anyone else steer you from your dream boat. I talked a lot to a guy who wanted to talk me out of my recent purchase saying that the 5.0 mpi motor was low on torque, that the V6 was lighter in the stern and faster, blah, blah, blah. Like you, I wanted that V8 sound, especially through the Captains Call. And you just don't get it in a V6 boat. I got my dream boat.

By the way, Happy Birthday. I'm guessing you are turning 50, right?

[Formula Jr]

Yeller, you have a "for real" factory jetdrive powered 16? Is it a berkley? What year? And do you have a punch out panel on the fire wall bulkhead?
Yours is the ONLY other Jet 16 I've heard about.

[yeller]

Yeller, you have a "for real" factory jetdrive powered 16? Is it a berkley? What year? And do you have a punch out panel on the fire wall bulkhead?
Yours is the ONLY other Jet 16 I've heard about.

Sorry, but mine is a donzi 'copy'....oh the shame...the shame..:(

[yeller]

The drive is bullet proof, but here are the draw backs to a jet on a Deep Vee:
You will find this barely steerable at slow speeds and no helm once the engine is off and you are drifting.
Jets rob a lot of power. Jets are always on when the motor is running and this makes them wander around at dock while you are warming up.
A jet will not "fly" in the same manner as an outdrive. The intake holds the boat down in the water. Jets also tend to roll but in an entirely different manner than the prop torque reaction of an outdrive.
You can spin out easier in a fast turn.
Getting a rope in the impeller is a bitch.


I have to correct you on a couple of things. A jet is harder to learn to steer at slow speeds, but with time, it becomes easy. Jets rob power, but not as much as people think. I have a 300hp 350 and my boat runs only a few mph slower than an alpha. You also learn were to place your reverse control so you can idle in place. I certainly have lots of "fly" time with my boat. Spinning out in a turn is for flat bottoms. I have done numerous full throttle, full steering lock, 180deg turns. Getting a rope in the impellar is a bitch.:mad:
Sorry...I just hate to jet drives get an undeserved bad rap. :smile:

[Zudnic]

As far as an 18 goes, if I was in the market (I have one now) I would be buying this one (http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=33611)

Ignore this advice, he is a Mad Poodle (as in crazy mad)! :D

I'm in the market and shocked that that one has not sold! The only reason for me is boat price + Washington to Florida will push that price right out of the budget. After all the expenses I figure it would cost me close to 20K for her. I at least have work in California that I can do. No excuse to spend days I don't really have for Florida, yet!. :bawling:

I like older looks, not neccessarily the older boats. Biggest factor for me besides liking the looks of older stuff in Donzi, (Minx, GT21, Criterion) is I want something to do in the winter besides watching TV. I have some mechanical knowledge, and worked in a upholstery shop when I was teen (first job) and followed by a body shop doing prep work. It makes me feel good to keep old things going and have people look at my work I've done with admiration! Cost and project semi-project are the biggest factors for me. In any thing pre-owned though buy the best you can afford.

[Zudnic]

Sorry, but mine is a donzi 'copy'....oh the shame...the shame..:(

At least you have something, anything is better than nothing. We have a lot that people leave vehicles forsale. A older 21' Rayson Craft Day Cruiser with Berkley Jet Drive was almost bought by me just to get on the water this weekend. Some kids beat me to it, when I got back to phone seller it was gone! Like this one only the one forsale was faded blue metal flake. Sold for $2,800 with Chev 350.

http://www.raysoncraftboats.com/hendricksonsoldboat.jpg

[fastcat]

I agree with you about old vs. new and enjoying keeping the old going and looking good. We recently finished a nut and bolt restoration of a 1964 Jaguar XKE coupe. It's a beautiful car and I'll NEVER get my money back out of it, but that's not the eason we did all the work. It was a labor of love and something we are very proud of. We've never had an older boat before so why not?

Fastcat (as in Fast Jaguar)