Hydraulic Steering

[BaldEagle]

I am looking at a new 18 Classic. I'm an old boater but new Classic fan. Does anyone have any experiance with the optional hydraulic steering or is the tried and true cable steering the way to go?
Thanks.
B.E.

[Sam]

First off welcome to the site, this is the palce to go for answers and god knows opinions :jestera: . Anyway if it was me and I planed on leaving it a stock boat I would not go for the HYD steering. Unless your plan on some speeds above 70 mph I personally would spend my spare money on something else.

Sam

[Ranman]

I agree with Sam. Hydraulic steering (true hyd from helm to stern) is superior, but very expensive. While it is hands down a better system, unless you are planning on running over 70MPH, I would spend the $4K - $5K on something else. If your plan is to modify the boat for higher speeds, hyd steering is a must.

Welcome to the board. Where in MI are you?

[BaldEagle]

I agree with Sam. Hydraulic steering (true hyd from helm to stern) is superior, but very expensive. While it is hands down a better system, unless you are planning on running over 70MPH, I would spend the $4K - $5K on something else. If your plan is to modify the boat for higher speeds, hyd steering is a must.

Welcome to the board. Where in MI are you?

I'm in Ada, east of Grand Rapids. The cost of the hyd steering is about $ 1200 for the 18. I've ordered the 6.2 320 Hp w/ Bravo drive and I'm not sure what that equates to in top speed. I had an 04 lined up lacated in NH and I drove out there to pick it up and the guy backed out of the deal. So I bit the bullet and ordered one the way I wanted it. I'm just not sure about the hyd steering.

[Maine18]

oops - was that you, bald eagle? i think i bought that boat on winni a week and a half ago. picked it up last saturday. the guy said he had a potential buyer in mi. but took my deposit. good luck with the new 18. sounds like a better set-up anyway. and i'd vote for the hydraulic steering.

[Ranman]

If it's a factory installed FULL system for $1800, I'd be all over it. Hell a 1/2 system @ $1200 installed from the factory isn't that bad. Also, if it's a 1/2 system you can always convert to full later if desired.

A 6.2 320HP in an 18 will put you right at 70 or so. If money is not the issue, go for it.

As an FYI

A 1/2 system consists of a standard cable helm and P/S actuator that goes to a manifold controlling a hydraulic ram attached to the drive. this is better than most stock steering systems which is just a cable and actuator controlling a tiller arm.

A full system will have a hydraulic helm with hyd lines running from the helm back to the PS system and then to the ram(s). There is no cable in the full systems.

I'm going to guess that for $1200, they are installing a 1/2 system at best. Not a bad price installed though if that's what it is.

Has the factory told you EXACTLY what you get for the $1200? Maybe it's an internal hydraulic setup and not the offshore setup I'm thinking about. Might want to check.

[BaldEagle]

oops - was that you, bald eagle? i think i bought that boat on winni a week and a half ago. picked it up last saturday. the guy said he had a potential buyer in mi. but took my deposit. good luck with the new 18. sounds like a better set-up anyway. and i'd vote for the hydraulic steering.
Yes, the guy (I won't mention names, told me his wife may have changed her mind and she might want to keep it and buy another boat too, and he was going to talk to her and let me know. Supposedely he was out of town. This was after I had made a deal with him to buy it and drove from MI back to NH to pick it up. He didn't even have the decency to give me call and let me know he for sure wasn't selling it, so I wasted a night at the hotel as well waiting. As it turns out he wasn't just a welcher but lied too. I was there to pick it up Thu last week with a bank check for the agreed upon amount.
It looked like a nice boat and I hope you have good luck with it. (pardon my frustration but my word is good).

[BaldEagle]

It is the internal system but what was described to me was a hyd resevoir at the wheel and hyd lines back to a cylinder at the drive. It sounded like the full system but internal. I'll make sure of exactly what it is.
Thanks.



If it's a factory installed FULL system for $1800, I'd be all over it. Hell a 1/2 system @ $1200 installed from the factory isn't that bad. Also, if it's a 1/2 system you can always convert to full later if desired.

A 6.2 320HP in an 18 will put you right at 70 or so. If money is not the issue, go for it.

As an FYI

A 1/2 system consists of a standard cable helm and P/S actuator that goes to a manifold controlling a hydraulic ram attached to the drive. this is better than most stock steering systems which is just a cable and actuator controlling a tiller arm.

A full system will have a hydraulic helm with hyd lines running from the helm back to the PS system and then to the ram(s). There is no cable in the full systems.

I'm going to guess that for $1200, they are installing a 1/2 system at best. Not a bad price installed though if that's what it is.

Has the factory told you EXACTLY what you get for the $1200? Maybe it's an internal hydraulic setup and not the offshore setup I'm thinking about. Might want to check.

[Ranman]

It is the internal system but what was described to me was a hyd resevoir at the wheel and hyd lines back to a cylinder at the drive. It sounded like the full system but internal. I'll make sure of exactly what it is.

This is a little different than what I'm familiar with. Some other members here should be able to give you better insight as to the "value" of an internal system.

[Maine18]

Yes, the guy (I won't mention names, told me his wife may have changed her mind and she might want to keep it and buy another boat too, and he was going to talk to her and let me know. Supposedely he was out of town. This was after I had made a deal with him to buy it and drove from MI back to NH to pick it up. He didn't even have the decency to give me call and let me know he for sure wasn't selling it, so I wasted a night at the hotel as well waiting. As it turns out he wasn't just a welcher but lied too. I was there to pick it up Thu last week with a bank check for the agreed upon amount.
It looked like a nice boat and I hope you have good luck with it. (pardon my frustration but my word is good).


hey, i completely understand your frustration. i'd be mad as he!!. all i remember him saying (when we were negotiating the price) was that he had another guy from mi that would buy it on thurs if i didn't. i thought it was probably just b.s. anyway. but actually - the guy seemed quite reasonable to deal with for me. no problems yet, and the boat seems flawless to me. we'll see, i guess. i can't believe he never called to tell you he sold it. i don't get that.

[BaldEagle]

I took your advise and ask the dealer about the hyd and what it was. He described it again as a resevoir at the helm with hyd lines back to a cyl. at the drive. I added it.

thanks.


It is the internal system but what was described to me was a hyd resevoir at the wheel and hyd lines back to a cylinder at the drive. It sounded like the full system but internal. I'll make sure of exactly what it is.
Thanks.

[BaldEagle]

I appreciate the info. He sold the boat to me for 30K on Thu Apr 28th. I told him it was a deal and that I would be at Winnne to pick it up the following Wed. He had my contact numbers and I called a couple of times in between to let him know everything was fine. When I got out there he all the sudden was very difficult to get a hold of and finally left me a Voice mail that he was out of town and then gave me the wife story. I won't waste any more time on him but beware if you have to deal with him again. No Honor.


hey, i completely understand your frustration. i'd be mad as he!!. all i remember him saying (when we were negotiating the price) was that he had another guy from mi that would buy it on thurs if i didn't. i thought it was probably just b.s. anyway. but actually - the guy seemed quite reasonable to deal with for me. no problems yet, and the boat seems flawless to me. we'll see, i guess. i can't believe he never called to tell you he sold it. i don't get that.

[Maine18]

I appreciate the info. He sold the boat to me for 30K on Thu Apr 28th. I told him it was a deal and that I would be at Winnne to pick it up the following Wed. He had my contact numbers and I called a couple of times in between to let him know everything was fine. When I got out there he all the sudden was very difficult to get a hold of and finally left me a Voice mail that he was out of town and then gave me the wife story. I won't waste any more time on him but beware if you have to deal with him again. No Honor.


ok - one last comment on this and we will close the discussion. while i am glad i got the boat, it was even nicer than he claimed, and i got it for slightly less than he sold it to you for...i came so close to telling him where to go after driving 2 hrs to meet him at the specified time, i had to wait in his driveway for over 2 hrs for him to show up. wouldn't even answer his phone or call me back and tell me he was going to be late. i still can't believe i actually waited there for him for that long. but i figured i already was going to have 4+ hrs invested in the travel... whatever. it's over now. sorry you had to deal with him too.

[BaldEagle]

Glad you only had to wait 2. I wasted 2 days on him.
Nice meeting you - Done.
Hope its a great boat for you. Did he put the "drive shower' in after market? What does it actually consist of?



ok - one last comment on this and we will close the discussion. while i am glad i got the boat, it was even nicer than he claimed, and i got it for slightly less than he sold it to you for...i came so close to telling him where to go after driving 2 hrs to meet him at the specified time, i had to wait in his driveway for over 2 hrs for him to show up. wouldn't even answer his phone or call me back and tell me he was going to be late. i still can't believe i actually waited there for him for that long. but i figured i already was going to have 4+ hrs invested in the travel... whatever. it's over now. sorry you had to deal with him too.

[Maine18]

Glad you only had to wait 2. I wasted 2 days on him.
Nice meeting you - Done.
Hope its a great boat for you. Did he put the "drive shower' in after market? What does it actually consist of?


i know, i know. obviously you're experience with him was far more unfortunate. but that's over now. and you have a brand new 18 with the 377. that's about as good as you can get.

yes, he did put the drive shower on. it's basically just some stainless tubing that sucks water up under the cavitation plate and sprays it down over the top of the drive to help cool it. not really necessary with a stock 350 / bravo combo.

[MOP]

You say internal, I believe that is the Teleflex/SeaStar system with the ram that mounts in place of the Merc hydraulic unit. If so that connects to the exsisting tiller arm, it is more reliable then cable but not as good as external. It is used on a lot of large cruisers etc, I have that NIB Teleflex ram in my garage that I was going to use but decided that if I go that way I will go external due to drive type and a 383 stroker engine. $1,200 installed is a fair price for that setup as the parts run about $800

Phil

[Sam]

B.E. , sounds like a hell of a boat you just ordered. I'll keep you posted on our local Donzi gatherings as the summer heats up. Keep us up to date once you get some seat time in your new ride.

Sam

[RickSE]

There's one big difference between internal and external hyd. steering that I believe no one has mentioned.

External Hyd. => no play in the drive since the steering arm is past the gimbal.

Internal Hyd. => play in the drive still exists since the steering arm is before the gimbal.

You should be fine though with the internal hyd. steering. Yes, internal hyd. steering eliminates all cables; it's hyd. from the helm back to the steering ram and arm. I'd get as much stuff put on as you can at the factory.

[blackhawk]

Okay, dumb question how does a cable system work? My boats had internal hydraulic systems. Is it just as the name implies? A cable that "reels"(for lack of a better word) in and out of the helm that controls the steering?

[Rootsy]

in all acutality the cable in a cable steering system doesn't do any actual real kinda WORK in a mercruiser system. what it does is exert momentary force against the tiller arm and the valve that it is connected to upstream then shifts the spool and the HYDRAULIC CYLINDER actuates to literally move the tiller arm...

the benefit of an external hydraulic setup is that it removes the load from the aluminum tiller arm, decreased the gimble ring loading and transfers it to the transom. Therefore it removes the "slop" in the tolerance stackup of parts in the system and tightens everything up... the drive now has ZERO movement because the cylinders are constraining it.

it is still my opinion that a half system is absolutely fine for our applications and it is fairly cost effective... you have a redundant system in place. 1) the cable is STILL attached and in the case of loosing a cylinder, hose or pump operation you can still muscle the boat home... 2) if the cable or helm or tiller should happen to break for some obscure reason since there is negligable load on the cable and tiller arm the hydraulic cylinder will hold the drive straight (actually it'll sloooooooowly drift but since the valve spool will have some leakage internally) allowing you to come off the fuel and get slowed down and stopped safely...

for high performance heavy hull super HP and speed applications i DO feel that a full hydraulic dual ram system is the way to go only because you are constraining the drive system adequately under the applicable loads it is seeing...

basically look at stock mercruiser power assisted steering.. you have a hydraulic ram and a cable attached to a piece of cast aluminum about a foot long and less than 1 inch square at any point in it's cross section. It is then clamped around a square shaft that is in tern clamped to the gimble ring and that is how the load is transferred through the system...

JR