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View Full Version : ball height, tongue weight



gero1
05-02-2005, 07:36 PM
i bought a 97 chevy ex. cab 2 wheel drive p/u to pull my 22 with, was wondering how to get the the right tongue weight?? what is the right tongue weight??? i can get all this to a 5 platform scale and axle it all out if that will help

Lenny
05-02-2005, 07:57 PM
10-15% of the total weight should reside at the tongue. 15% being better.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5900&stc=1&thumb=1


FWIW, 10-15 percent rule is too high at higher gross weights. If you are towing over 10k lbs prob'ly want to be below 10%. Start to run into hitch capacity limits

gero1
05-02-2005, 08:16 PM
a 22 black hawk full of fuel and trailer..5000lbs... tongue weight should be about 750lbs???

Mr X
05-02-2005, 08:25 PM
Its a good starting point, but I tow a 42 Cigarette......it has 550 LBS tongue weight.
My 22 clasic had less than 300 LBS tounge weight.

The tow truck is a Ford Excursion Diesel 4X4

I always perfer LESS than 10 % total.

MOP
05-02-2005, 08:38 PM
Lenny has it right but if you have dual torsion axles they are bolted in place a real pain to move, I found that ball height has quite an effect on the tongue weight. On my Dakota I use a fairly low hitch it keeps more weight on the front trailer axle which makes the 22's engine weight help to lighten the tongue, but keeps the truck from bottoming out. With the high hitch off the Sub the bumper is about three inches lower and it bottoms out at the drop of a hat. The low hitch works much better but the front axles tires show a lot more squat showing as they are carrying more load. On the Sub with the high hitch the trailer rides very level and the tires show the same amount of side wall sag. I like the trailer to ride flat so I only do local with the Dakota and use the sub for the longer hauls. I would shoot for as level as possible and ad helper springs or air bags if needed.

Phil

MOP
05-02-2005, 08:46 PM
Gee while I was slow typing a few more jumped in, I have always felt that no matter how big the tow is about 300 to 400lbs is all you will ever need. Little boats a lot less. You do not want to much weight as the trucks front end gets real light and is really scary in the rain.

Phil

gero1
05-03-2005, 10:09 AM
i just got in from work 10 pm till when ever, i bought this truck to pull 1 thing, my 22, would like to get it set up the right way cause i would like to go to some other meets in the north and n.e and very much want to go to a.z with it. the trailer is leaf spring. so the tongue weight should be 300-400lbs range????? thanks

mattyboy
05-03-2005, 10:31 AM
I thought tongue weight and ball height are 2 different animals??

I mean tongue weight should remain fairly constent no matter what angle it is at I can see some weight liquid especially moving forward like gas in the tank if it is not full or if the boat has water in it????

I thought the trick was to have the tow vehicle and trailer at level line

no ^ V but ----

and you increase or decrease tongue weight in how you load up your cargo in the boat??? or buy a custom made trailer and not worry ;)


I always went buy the 10 % rule

Ranman
05-03-2005, 10:58 AM
With a 22 I'm assuming your on a tandem trailer. If so, Iyou should adjust the ball height so that there is an equal amount of load on all 4 tires. If the tongue is too low, the front axle will have to do all the work and the rear is along for a free ride. If the tongue is too high (not likely) the rear tires are loaded too much. In either of these scenarios you are working and wearing one set of tires too much. I try to get my trailer frame to ride as level to the ground as possible, thus evenly distributing the weight to each axle. As an example, to get mine to run level with my new F-150 I had to take a 3" drop receiver, flip it upside down and mount the ball to it resulting in like a 4" lift.

Once an appropriate ball height is achieved, work to set the tongue weight to 10%-15% of the total load. If 5000lbs is your package, I would shoot for about 600lbs, but no more than 750lbs. You can tweak this slightly if necessary.

Bottom line is, too much tongue weight and the ass of the truck will sag and the nose will feel light, too little weight and the whole thing will fishtail. Either of these situations is dangerous. Once you get it right, the package will look correct asthetically (truck, trailer and boat will look right together) and it will tow very well.

Tom Davis
05-03-2005, 12:01 PM
My recomendation for setting up a tow vehicle is:

1) Park the trailer on a level place, Unhook the tow vehicle, put a level on the trailer and adjust the tongue jack until the trailer is level.
2) Back the truck up to the trailer and see what the relative height of the ball is to the trailer. This will tell you what kind of verticle offset you will need for your hitch. offsets come in one inch increments.
3) There are many opinions on tongue weight, My opinion; around 250-300 pounds should do well for a 22.
4) Adjusting the tongue weight is usually done to an existing set up either by shifting the position of the boat on the trailer; moving the front winch assembly, or adjusting the axle position on the trailer. Keep in mind that sometimes a minor positional differance can make a large change in the center of gravity of your rig.

Other comments: I highly recomend aftermarket air bags for the rear suspension with remote electric air pump and air pressure gauge controlled from the dashboard. I had this set up on my Tahoe and great luck with it. The ride while not towing was not sacrificed for the towing set up.

Make sure you have the truck set up with extra cooling for both the trany and the engine. Things to carry when traveling/towing: a big hydraulic jack, a spare, a few wheel bearing assemblies, grease gun with marine grease.

Just my .02

Tom Davis
Winni Bandits

MOP
05-03-2005, 03:39 PM
To Quote Matty!
I thought tongue weight and ball height are 2 different animals??

Matty singles axle trailers are not like dual axle trailers, with dual axles the tongue does get lighter when lowered. As they are lowered the weight transfers to the front axle that in turn makes the back end machinery act like a counter weight making the hitch lighter. Try cranking up a dual axle trailer, as you raise it you take the weight off the front axle and they get harder the higher up you go.

Phil

mattyboy
05-03-2005, 04:01 PM
To Quote Matty!
I thought tongue weight and ball height are 2 different animals??

Matty singles axle trailers are not like dual axle trailers, with dual axles the tongue does get lighter when lowered. As they are lowered the weight transfers to the front axle that in turn makes the back end machinery act like a counter weight making the hitch lighter. Try cranking up a dual axle trailer, as you raise it you take the weight off the front axle and they get harder the higher up you go.

Phil

Phil,
wouldn't know about a single axle, I don't own one but when I put a scale under the jack wheel on my tandem trailer and raise and lower it I see no change in weight I see a 225-230 lbs which is right in the ball park of the 10%
of the total package and I see no difference in effort in raising or lowering it I guess it pays to have a great custom trailer

in theory yes if you change the angle far enough the more weight will rest on the point of contact just picture a trailer standing straight up resting on it's tail lights all the weight is there, or if you could stand it on the tongue all the weight would be there. but in the amount of throw you would have between all the way down and all the way up 18 to 24 or so the weight should not change that much unless your trailer is way out of balance and has Tom and Randy said level makes a tandem ride and wear well

http://www.donzi.net/hull/NY1506FU/mveth60.jpg

Donzi Kat
05-03-2005, 06:12 PM
Ok had to add my .02 in here... anmolst thought by the name of the thread that you posted it in the wrong section sorry.... thought it was funny.:jestera: :jestera:

gero1
05-03-2005, 07:26 PM
ranman glad to hear that, i had to flip a 3" drop over as well. mattey , nice trailer!! yours and trip's new myco the axles are set way back, my eagle they are about a foot or more forward of yours and trips. mop u r right, last year while takeing this pic i noticed that when the dolly was up the front of the trailer was a foot off the ground so i moved the boat up about 3" on the trailer, probley will have to move it back as i took a buddies laser heat gun last year and there was a 35 degree difference between front and back tires, this is a lot for only a half hour ride to the lake, would be much more on a trip to mi or whereever. i will be scaleing all this out this weekend, weighing boat and trailer sep to see just how much it weighs, willshoot for 300-400lbs t.w