Blackhawk or not

[glashole]

I am currently looking to move up from my 16 to a 22

I have a line on a 1996 Blackhawk however after reviewing the board and past threads I am in search of some knowledge

I mainly run the thousand Islands and Lake Ontario where I like to run 2-3 ft chop .:smile:

From what I have read the Blackhawk may not be the best decision for this type application and i should be looking at maybe a 22 with the bravo

At this time I cannot confirm whether the boat is in fact an original however everything seems to be pointing in that direction

Does anyone have any experience or advise they may be able to enlighten me with.:crossfing

[blackhawk]

Glashole, if the 2-3' chop is wind chop and has rythem the Blackhawk will eat it up. However, if the 2-3' chop is a washing machine from other boats you will really have to drive the Blackhawk. The higher X and short drive can make the boat tricky to drive in the "confused" waters.

[glashole]

How much different would it be than say hitting those waters in my 16 which can be a handful at 50-60mph in the same situation.

I was talking mainly talking waves which you said would work great.

Are there any other major handling characteristics that I should be aware of

I appreciate any input you can give


Shea

[blackhawk]

IMO 2-3' chop with rythem is where my boat ran the best. VERY light but srtaight and predictable.

As far as handling characteristics the boat is very loose. When trimmed out there is not much boat in the water. My only complaint with mine was how it handled the washing machine waters, which is where I do 90% of my boating. The Blackhawk does not like boat wakes to the side or the sloppy water. You can drive hard in them still, but you are really working at it. I always had the most fun in the big wind chop.

They will also porpoise at mid-range cruise without some tab. Tou basically drive this boat with the tabs, not the drive. No matter if you're cruising or wide-open and trimmed out.

If you get a Blackhawk, replace the 150 K-planes with 280s immediately if the previos owner has not already dones so. HUGE improvement in the slop. External steering is a plus. Really tightened my boat up.

A lot of people will tell you that the Blackhawk drive is weak. I totally disagree. It's a Bravo 3 in it's own case. I think the Blackhawk has a better chance of breaking because it is a short drive mounted on a high X. Which means you are more likely to fly the boat and re-enter the water with the throttle on, especially if you're an inexperinced driver. Take your time to learn how the boat handles.

[Lenny]

...also, you only get two "hops" and then you are vertical :D

One hop, (one second) good fun, 15 degrees, two hops (2 seconds) 30 degrees (not as much fun) , 3 hops, (3 seconds) good practice for a Space Shuttle Launch :eek:

One hand on the wheel, one on the throttle and grow another for the tabs.

A LOT of fun though, just that there is no time for "chat" when running hard.

[glashole]

sounds perfect :D


thanks for the input



shea

[MOP]

In speaking to a couple of BH owners they seem to agree that at regular speeds the boat is just fine much like any other, it is the high speed running that takes seat time to master the art of not staining your shorts.

phil

[blackhawk]

This boat does take some seat time. I forgot to mention that one of the things I did to make the boat MUCH easier to drive was putting in two micro switches in my throttle handle for the tabs. Both up/both down. So, if I was running WFO and got into some boat wakes or slop I could just hit simply hit a button and both tabs down without taking my hand off the throttle. Cost me about $5 and did wonders on how I could drive the boat. Not much is more scary than reaching for your tab button down a 1/2 second too late and your hand is off the throttle! Serously, in all the thousands I spent to make the boat better/easier to drive that was the best mod. And for under $5! It's amazing how much more confident you are when you can leave your hand on the joystick! :D

[glashole]

what is it that makes the boat so harry in those situations??

[blackhawk]

Basically the rocker in the hull makes it "sqirrelly" in confused waters without dragging some tab.

By design(high X, short drive, surface props) the blackhawk drive does not lift the bow of the boat, so the boat needs some rocker in it to naturally lift the bow. So, when you get into snotty washing machine water, the boat can be a handful because the hull is very "loose". And trimming the drive down does very little. Like I said, you drive this boat with the tabs. But, when you get the boat in some good 2' chop with rythem WOW is it fun! Wide open, tabs up and trimmed out!!! :D

[Lenny]

The rocker in the hull working against the "non" rocker area of the hull. The rocker seems to win every time. At 40-50 mph it is fine and predictable. After that it gets back on its' haunches and gets loose and fast. :D Trim REALLY picks it up (bow high) and then she just goes. First porpoise rythm or wake and you are skyward, next bounce is way worse.

It's all fun.

Buy it. It is a drivers boat to be sure. Just don't think you are ever in control of it.

Think of it as a reasonably well mannered vicious dog. Always be aware.

[blackhawk]

Buy it. It is a drivers boat to be sure. Just don't think you are ever in control of it.

Think of it as a reasonably well mannered vicious dog. Always be aware.

Good analogy! :D But, I like to THINK I am always in cotrol, just respect her cause she can turn on you at any minute!!! ;)

[Donzidreamin']

Scott-

I don't want to hijack this thread...but quick question, did you ever sell your blackhawk? Thanks.

[glashole]

Good analogy! :D But, I like to THINK I am always in cotrol, just respect her cause she can turn on you at any minute!!! ;)



I think i understand what you are talking about , i had a girlfriend like that once. :bonk:

[rustnrot]

Check the ad, Yesyoucan has a '95 Blackhawk for sale in Augusta, GA, $23,500. I have family in Michigan and could deliver to there for a reasonable fee.

[blackhawk]

Scott-

I don't want to hijack this thread...but quick question, did you ever sell your blackhawk? Thanks.

Yep, gone. Gave her away in February! :(

[Barry Phillips]

The Blackhawk has never been my favorite limited edition 22, only because I've never been a big fan of the black, red and gold color scheme, and the screaming chicken on the deck, which was hot on the TransAms from 80s, but was kind of dated by the mid 90s. With that said Donzi did produce a few of regular Blackhawk 22s and they are dam fast and fly really high, so I think you really need some seat time to drive one safely. Mercury marine also had some engineering problems with the drive, so you need to keep spare parts for the it. Before Limited Edition Blackhawk owners through stones at me, I must say the Blackhawks are very special boats, just not my taste and if you really want one, I might know where there is one for sale, not to far from you. So send me a private message and I will send you the contact info.

[blackhawk]

Mercury marine also had some engineering problems with the drive, so you need to keep spare parts for the it.

Barry, never heard of this? And I have talked to a few people at Mercury about the drive. What parts?

I'm not a big fan of the screaming chicken model either, but to each his own! And they are all fast!!! :D

[gero1]

black,red and gold are the only colores and it AIN"T NO DAMN CHICKEN!!!!!!!!!

[Bad-Tat]

No no Robert! That's Black, Teal and Purple!!!
Blackhawk has given lots of good advice. If you get one follow it and pay attention to the water conditions when you get over 65 or as Lenny says third hop you are stargazing. Tab switch on the throttle is a must!!! Buy it and bring it to Cumberland!!!

[blackhawk]

black,red and gold are the only colores and it AIN"T NO DAMN CHICKEN!!!!!!!!!

It's not? What is it then? Sure looks like a chicken! :D

[MOP]

Ooops!

[mattyboy]

I think Barry was referring to the new HD gear set the original gears were prone to break Merc updated them

and there is only one screaming chicken boat and it ain't a blackhawk ;)

let's not forget about this BH factor :tongue:

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=28653

[blackhawk]

I think Barry was referring to the new HD gear set the original gears were prone to break Merc updated them

That makes sense, except that wasn't a blackhawk problem. That was a problem with ALL the bravo upper gears.

[Barry Phillips]

Again it's just a taste issue, I'm only referring to the Limited Edition version, weather you call it a screaming chicken or a hawk I think the boat would have been prettier without it, just my opinion. To be truthful I have never seen a Classic Donzi I did not like. I just like some more than others. As for parts, I'm not an expert on the Blackhawk drive except I think Mercury produced it for only 2 years and now we are 10 years out, I was also referring to parts availability. Lastly one of my favorite Limited Edition 22s is the SE because it was more than a graphics package, (way out of my price range) the HP 500 and drive combo makes this boat really fast, I do think a Blackhawk will keep up it with a standard 502. One past me on Lake George in the mid 90s at full tilt and it just increased my Donzi lust, which began in 1970.

[gero1]

1- sorry tat, i forgot 2- keep up???81.7 mph late last fall in a BONE STOCK b/h on g.p.s!!!! 3- this boat is nothing to be played with, it will get away from you in a heart beat!!!!! i love it so dearly!!!!! it still ain't no chicken, it's a, a, a,??? let me have another beer and i'll get back to ya

[blackhawk]

1- sorry tat, i forgot 2- keep up???81.7 mph late last fall in a BONE STOCK b/h on g.p.s!!!! 3- this boat is nothing to be played with, it will get away from you in a heart beat!!!!! i love it so dearly!!!!! it still ain't no chicken, it's a, a, a,??? let me have another beer and i'll get back to ya

Are you in salt or fresh water?


"this boat is nothing to be played with, it will get away from you in a heart beat!!!!! i love it so dearly!!!!!"

I hear that. Loose is fast and on the edge of out of control!!! :D

I miss my girl! :(

[roadtrip se]

The dependability issue can be debated over and over again. The realities are pretty simple. A surfacing drive spinning two big props is going to put stress on the gears.

If you go from forward to reverse, even at low speeds, in a docking manuever for instance, without letting the props six blades stop, you put serious stress on a BH drive and will create damage.

If you don't get out of the throttle when you hit a wave and those same six blades dig in at big time rpms upon return to the water, you will create damage.

I've seen this sort of damage on bravo units too, but the BH props can accent the problem and the error threshold is much lower. Of course, no one wants to admit that operator error caused the failure, so we blame the equipment.

Parts are available. The only piece that isn't is the unique drive case. I just saw an advertisement from Max Machineworx in a recent boat magazine offering hardened parts, including vertical shafts, for the BH. Props are rare, but there are shops that will make them for a price. Parts are more expensive and harder to find, but I wouldn't use this as an excuse not to buy a BH boat.

Handling is the trump card with these things. They simply are not going to behave in rough, sloppy water, PERIOD! Your passengers had better have some strong intestinal fortitude, when she goes 1, 2, and God help you if bounce 3 comes!

All of this being said, I would love to have one and I have had several chances to put some real nice BH boats in the stable. BUT, we don't have the conditions here to really enjoy one, so I pass, and hate it every time I do it!

Buy this boat with eyes wide open, but if you take the time to safely master it, and you have the water to run it, you are going to have a blast!

End of the 45th BH editorial I've written here...

RT

[Lenny]

BUT, we don't have the conditions here to really enjoy one, so I pass, and hate it every time I do it!


...or you can do what we do here and just run it anyway and practice saying "Our Father, who art in Heaven" :D :D :D

[blackhawk]

I totally agree! I've said it 100 times. The drive itself is just as strong as a Bravo, but possibility to damage the drive is greater. High X, short drive, high hp.

If you are serious about buying it, check the gimbal ring. They wear out quickly on a BH. And if you do buy it put 280 tabs on it and get some tab switches in the throttle right away. The two best(and cheapest!) things I did for my BH.

Like I, and others, have said they are awesome in chop with rythem but tough to drive in the washing machine slop. It can be done, and still pretty fast, but you had better be reading the water closely and be ready to drop tab at any moment! People were amazed at how I drove my boat in slop because I was constantly making adjustments. And I did it with no drive or tab indicators! :D

[Bad-Tat]

Lenny,
I think RT practiced the "Our Father" routine when he rode with me the 3rd time I had driven the Tat! I have some funny marks on the bottom of the passenger seat from that one!!!

[Lenny]

Tat, first run in the Blackhawk in a windblown 2-3 ocean (rythm) here with Mike M was "something" :rolleyes: That was my first run in it last summer. By the end of the day it was MUCH better (June 04) Now it is predicatble, still can throw you some "scares", but is a TON of fun.

It is all good, and while NOT the best boat for bigger water, (none of that washing machine Lake stuff here, only Ocean,) it seems to be predictable and you know when to stop "gimbal-ing your beer in your hand", put it between your knees, grab the side rail and top of windshield frame :D and through out a couple of quick prayers. :D

A GOOD life jacket and a kill switch adds to the confidence factor.

I would buy one, (if I could) in a heartbeat for here. Like I said, at 40-50 it is very predictable, beyond that, well, ever been to 'Vegas ?

I love 'em. :yes: Nothing like the rocker taking over and adding a couple of blips of trim. Whole new world.

[Barry Phillips]

If we did not want scare ourselves every once and while we would all be running around in 4 cylinder Bayliners. I ran 86mph in Geo's X-18 on the weekend on LG, which has some serious wakes, and loved every minute of it. I had dated a girl in college who's brother-in-law was a stunt pilot and flew a mid 1930s Steerman Bi-plane. We flew to Saratoga Springs to gas up and than over the lake about 20 feet off the water. Since the plane is a trainer with dual controls, he carried a rubber hammer, because if the passenger wicks out, and grabs the stick, well he would have to knock you out. So after a few barrel rolls, a stall and then a spiral crash dive, I had the thrill of my life, and he didn’t need his hammer. WOW. I would do it again in a heartbeat. Did I mention she was a brown-eyed blond with and owned a 68 4 speed big block Vett. What a summer.

[thriller]

All I want for Christmas is a longer set of Tabs and a throttle mount 5 dollar Tab switch:wink: ..

Oh ya and a Whipple :moped:

MM

[blackhawk]

Actually I think I only had $3.99 into mine cause I had the speaker wire laying around! A few people have asked me about the switches so here's a pic. All I did was add additional wires to the back of my rocker switches and tied them together, both up and both down. I used small gauge speaker wire to keep them together so it would be easier to route through the throttle handle. Then I took my throttle apart and routed the wire up through the handle(I removed the front speaker to get the wire from my rocker switches to the throttle opening). I drilled two holes in the lower part of the throttle handle and mounted the switches. I then hooked one wire to each switch and jumped the other side of the two switches to the positive terminal off the trim switch. When I hit the left switch, both tabs down and the right both tabs up. Made accelerating much faster cause i could now trim up and raise my tabs at the same time. But the biggest bonus was when running WFO in slop I could quickly drop tab without letting off the throttle! I looked at the $70 add on switches and I didn't like how they looked(afterthought) and their location was poor. My fingers were naturally where my switches were placed. It took some time and patience but it was worth it. Best $3.99 I have ever spent!!! :D

[MOP]

Very Nice, great ideas from finer minds!

Phil