Volvo / Ford Questions

[AGUESS]

Hi, It has been a long time since my last post. I am again trying to finish up my Classic 18 and today was working on the engine. Two problems.

1. The hub that connects to the flywheel has 6 bolt holes. 5 line up perfect. 1. is off a little and required enlarging the hole about 1/8 of inch on side so the bolt would go through and line up. Any problem here?

2. The flywheel housing that I purchased a few years ago does not line up with the bolt hoses on my Ford 351. The top two holes line up, but that is it. Do you know if there are different bell housings for different year ford 351 engines?

My engine is a new marine ford 351 made for PCM. I am hooking this upto a Volvo SX drive as part of the complete restoration of my 1966 Classic 18.

I had a lot of fun today, because nothing worked right.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Alex.

[penbroke]

1. There is one hole that is off the pattern. This is to force the flywheel to be installed in the correct position for proper balance. Try all 6 positions and I expect all the holes will line up at one of them.

2. Yes, there are a couple different Ford bellhousing bolt patterns. I really don't know which is which but I think one has an odd number of bolts and one has an even number. I don't know if there are Volvo flywheel housings for both or not...

Frank

[MOP]

Curious you say the hub that attaches, Volvo uses a flat flex plate not a hub it lays very flat to the flywheel, it looks similar to a clutch disk minus the friction ring. The bell housings intermediate shaft plugs into that, hope that is what you have. Look at item #24 http://216.37.204.206/Shorts/Volvo_oem/Volvo.asp?Type=13&A=8&B=11

If you have enlarged a hole in the flywheel fit you need to get it loose and keep rotating it until it matches the crank shafts bolt pattern not using the filed area. Ford had several different flywheels Standad, HO and also on some apps right and left hand rotation, sounds like you grabbed one that may or may not work. My recommendation would be to start it on blocks before you put it in the boat, if it shakes like hell find another flywheel. It is a heart break to find this out in the boat.

Phil

[penbroke]

Phil: I think he was refering to the flange on the end of the crank where the flywheel attaches.

Does Volvo have flywheel housings for both (or all) of the Ford bellhousing bolt patterns?

Frank

[AGUESS]

Hi Everyone.

1. MY setup does not have the connector that looks like a clutch, as shown in item 24. Thank you for that picture. FYI this is not a classic Volvo setup, which could be my problem. I am trying to configure the Volvo SX drive to my 351 engine.

To explain further. My original setup was a OMC 190hp Ford 302 with an electric shift outdrive. When I went to restore my 1966 Classic 18, everything was rotted. Transom, stringers, decking balsa, floor, dash, etc. This was a result of too may years outside. I have owned this since I was 13. I am now 43. At 13 I did not know to keep in the garage.

Everything has been rebuilt and my original thinking was to stay with ford, so I bought the new engine. Then I found out that it was not smart to keep the electric shift, so I went for the Volvo SX. It came off a boat that burned, and I was told that everything would match up with my new 351.

I finished the boat restoration but before I could put the engine / drive in, I found out that I have advanced Lyme disease and have been fighting this for several years. I am now where I can complete this project.

2. I did not enlarge the hole in the flywheel, but in the Hub. Now this brings up a second question. I did not mark the location of the flywheel before I removed it. Is this a problem and if so, how do I line up the fly wheel correctly when I reattach it.

3. I removed the flywheel, put it on a bench and set the hub on it. The hub, part number # LORD BJ-1451-2 has a flange that is about 1/2 inch deep that fits into the center of the flywheel. The hub extends from the flywheel for the drive shaft from the outdrive to fit into.

While on the bench, I rotated the hub and tried to line up all the holes in any combination. There is only one combination where 5 of the 6 holes lined up. One was off a little. So, I expanded the hole by drilling on one side until the bolt would go through. Then I thought about it and posted here.

If I have vibration, I don't think it will be from the flywheel, but from the hub if that small modification would cause it.

4. I will count the number of holes in my engine that is behind the flywheel to see if that helps anyone with my question on the flywheel / bell housing cover. What is the correct name of this part?

Thank you again.

Alex.

[MOP]

OK the picture is clearer but bit more clouded! The bell housing is the late style with the mounts protruding off the back end they rest on the SX inner shield Yes!
If so this is where it gets real sticky for me having been off the wrenches so long, I can try to ask some of my younger counter parts. But I have a hunch you may want to explore using an older Merc I/O Ford bell housing which will fit your motor, has that same type of mounts and do some mod work to make it match the Volvo mounts. They very well may be a close match, they have to be on the same plane with relationship to crank center line but may be a tad closer or father apart. You may not find they did not make anything that will fit between the two the above may be your only way out.

Phil

[AGUESS]

Thank you.

I am looking into the bell housing you told me about. Yes, I believe it will be best to go with the older Mercruiser style bell housing.

This is a great forum.

Thank you again.

Alex.

[MOP]

Drop me a PM if you have an issue with the location of the mount bosses(to wide/to narrow), I have a few ideas that may be of help.

Phil

[turbo2256]

Hi, It has been a long time since my last post. I am again trying to finish up my Classic 18 and today was working on the engine. Two problems.

1. The hub that connects to the flywheel has 6 bolt holes. 5 line up perfect. 1. is off a little and required enlarging the hole about 1/8 of inch on side so the bolt would go through and line up. Any problem here?

The holes should line up if you spin the flywheel to the correct position
one hole is offset to keep the counter weight on the flywheel in correct relation to the crank. If you have changed this the engine will be out of ballance. You need to correct what you did.


2. The flywheel housing that I purchased a few years ago does not line up with the bolt hoses on my Ford 351. The top two holes line up, but that is it. Do you know if there are different bell housings for different year ford 351 engines?

The only differance in Ford small blocks are the old 260/289 5 bolt bellhousings
and I believe 6 bolt housings on the newer ones that the top two bolts old has a closer spacing than the new. Last I knew all 351s were the 6 bolt wide spacing at top with the outer most starter location. The starter location is a bit different depending on the dia of the flywheel. I believe the top starter bolt is common to all but the lower one moves outward in an arc to accomidate larger flywheels. 351 "modifieds" share the same bolt pattern as 429,460,370,400s



My engine is a new marine ford 351 made for PCM. I am hooking this upto a Volvo SX drive as part of the complete restoration of my 1966 Classic 18.

I had a lot of fun today, because nothing worked right.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Alex.

FIX THAT FLY WHEEL POSITION please read between your quotes

[turbo2256]

Tech tip Ford usually has a punch mark on the clutch side of the flywheel between to of the crank bolt holes (I use the term between loosely). This punch mark should align up with a drilled hole in the crank between two of the bolt holes. This positioning should be were the bolt holes line up.

[MOP]

A ? For finer minds! I know there are several flywheels for the 302-351's, is there a way to be sure other than pulling the pan and getting the crank #s to tell if you have the correct match? At our shop we have had the wrong wheel ordered and installed with near earth quaking results and had to pull the engine back out, that was the reason for my posting to start it on blocks before putting it in the boat.

Phil

[AGUESS]

Thank you everyone.

This is a new 351W engine made for PCM, that came with all tin and the flywheel. I will reinstall the flywheel in the correct position, and I did not drill the flywheel, so there should not be any vibration issue from that.

MOP sent me info on a bell housing on ebay. Thank you. On that bell housing which is a Mercruiser housing, all of the holes, etc. line up with my engine. The only problem is that the center hole is only 5/12 inch and the Hub I have is 6 inch. So, that housing won't work.

I did find a bell housing that is made for PCM 351W from the same individual I purchased the engine through for around $100.00. This has a very large center hole so I don't think the hub size will be a problem.

Yes, I wish I had purchased a package engine/drive setup.

Thank you again for your help.

Alex.

[turbo2256]

A ? For finer minds! I know there are several flywheels for the 302-351's, is there a way to be sure other than pulling the pan and getting the crank #s to tell if you have the correct match? At our shop we have had the wrong wheel ordered and installed with near earth quaking results and had to pull the engine back out, that was the reason for my posting to start it on blocks before putting it in the boat.

Phil

First is having the correct number of teeth on the starter ring.
For 302/5.0s the correct ballance is a concern if it has a one piece rear seal you will need the 50.0 oz-in flywheel basicly 1981 and newer.

1981 and older 302s and all 351s use the 28.2 oz-in unballance

[bifs19]

First is having the correct number of teeth on the starter ring.
For 302/5.0s the correct ballance is a concern if it has a one piece rear seal you will need the 50.0 oz-in flywheel basicly 1981 and newer.

1981 and older 302s and all 351s use the 28.2 oz-in unballance


A. As others have posted...SBF flywheels will be positioned correctly when all six flywheel bolt holes line up with the six holes in the crank.

B. All years 351Ws and 1981 and older 289s/302s are externally balanced and require a 28 oz counterweighted flywheel (157,160, or 164 teeth)

C. Beginning in 1982 HOs, 5.0s are externally balanced and require a 50oz counterweighted flywheel (157 teeth only).

C. All SBF blocks (except very early 260/289 5-bolt blocks) have the same bellhousing bolt pattern.

D. Besides the counterweight issue, SBF flywheels come in two diameters (small and large). The small flywheels are either 160 or 157 teeth and use a bellhousing and block plate that properly locates the starter for that flywheel. The larger flywheel is 164 teeth and requires the larger bellhousing and block plate to properly locate the starter for that flywheel. As far as I know, 157 tooth flywheels are the only ones that may come in 28 oz or 50 oz. The smaller flywheel (157/160 tooth) 28 oz, larger flywheel (164 tooth) 28 oz, and the (157 tooth) 50 oz flywheel will probably have different pattern clutch pressure plate holes drilled in them. This is because the small 157/160 tooth (28 oz) flywheel typically came with a 10" "Long" type clutch, the larger 164 tooth (28 oz) with a 11" clutch, and the later 5.0 (50 oz) 157 tooth with a dowel pinned 10.5" diaphram clutch.

E. SBF marine engines that I have seen generally came with the larger bell and 164 tooth flywheels. Also, 351Ws in cars typically came from the factory with 164 tooth flywheels.

I once had a SBF aluminum marine bellhousing that was made for the 164 tooth flywheel slightly modified to allow using either the small or large flywheel.

[AGUESS]

Thanks everyone.

1. I have reinstalled the flywheel and you are correct that it will only line up one way.

2. I have purchased a correct volvo ford 351 bell housing.

3. I have posted a new thread asking a question about the hub connector.

As in the past, this is a great forum.

Thank you for all of your help.

Alex.