Stop the gas price outrage! READ THIS!

[Ramman]

WHERE TO BUY YOUR GAS,
THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO KNOW.
READ ON--
Gas rationing in the 80's worked even though we grumbled about it.
It might even be good for us!
The Saudis are boycotting American goods.
We should return the favor.
An interesting thought it to boycott their GAS.
Every time you fill up the car, you can avoid putting more money into the coffers of Saudi Arabia. Just buy from gas companies that don't import their oil from the Saudis.
Nothing is more frustrating than the feeling that every time I fill-up the tank, I am sending my money to peop le who are trying to kill me, my family, and my friends.
I thought it might be interesting for you to know which oil companies are the best to buy gas from and which major companies import Middle Eastern oil :
Don't buy from these companies:
Shell............................. 205,742,000 barrels
Chevron/Texaco........ 144,332,000 barrels
Exxon /Mobil............... 130,082,000 barrels
Marathon/Speedway... 117,740,000 barrels
Amoco...........................62,231,000 barrels

If you do the math at $30/barrel, these imports amount to over $18 BILLION!
Here are some large companies that do not import Middle Eastern oil:
Buy from these:
Citgo.......................0 barrels
Sunoco..................0 barrels
Conoco...................0 barrels
Sinclair...................0 barrels
BP/Phillips..............0 barrels
Hess.......................0 barrels
ARC0......................0 barrels

All of this information is available from the Department of Energy and each is required to state where they get their oil and how much they are importing.
But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of gas buyers.
It's really simple to do.
Now, don't wimp out at this point... keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach millions of people!!

I'm sending this note to about thirty people.
If each of you send it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)... and those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000) ... and so on, by the time the message reaches the sixth generation of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers!
If those three million get excited and pass this on to ten friends each, then 30 million people will have been contacted!

If it goes one level further, you guessed it .... THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!!

Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people.
How long would all that take?

If each of us sends this e-mail out to ten more people within one day, all 300 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next eight days!

PLEASE KEEP THIS GIONG AND GOING AND GOING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!

[Chili 18]

WHERE TO BUY YOUR GAS,
THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO KNOW.
READ ON--
Gas rationing in the 80's worked even though we grumbled about it.
ItIf each of us sends this e-mail out to ten more people within one day, all 300 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next eight days!

PLEASE KEEP THIS GIONG AND GOING AND GOING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!

Seems this is yet another email hoax...

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/saudigas.asp

[Lenny]

Ramman, you fellas have about a 20 year reserve in the ground that was filled in the 80's. Outside of OPEC. Just that George does not want to ever access it.

Makes sense tho.

If there is ever a world war III, you can bet getting gas for the tanks and such will be impossible. Not to worry. You have that looked after ;)

[Mr X]

WOW! 20 years of reserve fuel?? I wonder how they keep it fresh.....
must take a lot of Stabil!
If the entire US was a giant storage tank I doubt if it would be big enough to hold 20 years reserve....... :jestera:

[BUIZILLA]

Considering how many Star Ports that Texaco owns, in numerous BIG marina's, that's gonna be a hard sell for the water locked vessel's...

JH :alligator

[MOP]

I got the same mail Randy did and did the snopes thing on it, I did a little poking around and found that crude comes into the country and they all get some of it from the depots.

I read an article that gas when you figure in inflation is actually cheaper today then it was 20 years ago, the article went on to show how we stupidly pay outrageously higher prices for every last commercial beverage. One of the best examples is bottle water, which averages $6.00 a gallon, flavored ones are even worse. Look at hair product for women, Bon showed me a 16oz bottle of conditioner $23. There are literally millions of examples! Point being gas is one of the cheaper liquids we consume. True the effects span every product produced in some way, but still cheaper then 20 years back.

The smaller boats in our "Fleet" 16-22 are pretty cheap to run, I did a rough estimate on my mouse motor 22 last year came out 3.6 gph figure average running speed 40 mph that is roughly 11 miles to the gallon. Take an average family cruiser say a 34 Silverton with SB's 21-23 gph at 16-17kts that is more then 1 gph per mile, gas is the cheapest part of our very expensive hobby!

Phil
Phil

[gcarter]

I'm with Phil on this one.
If you look at; http://www.westegg.com/inflation/
and use 1980 as the base, oil was $40.00/ barrel=$101.59 today.
And in Houston in 1980, regular was $1.35= $3.43/ gallon today.
I think most of our problems today are a weak dollar, lack of refining capacity, and too many "boutique" seasonal blends.
We probably just need to get over it until we start producing more of our own and win a few battles against the environmentalists so we can build some additional refining capacity.
BTW, the above site is a lot of fun when you're having an argument.

[blackhawk]

It's the fact that I never see a good reason for the rising prices that gets to me. If it was a steady incline over the last 20-25 years that's one thing. But when it goes up $.80 a gallon in a month it's just irritating.

[dfunde01]

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/petition/gasout.htm

The course we need to pursue is to put the pressure on our elected officials to build refineries and drill Anwar.

[gero1]

to many people go on strike for 1/2 cent an hour, the familey farm is gone, no one wants to work for 12-15 an hour, they go on wellfare and the man hires some mexicens for 7 an hour, i have three kids that are the same way thanks to there mother. i love'em but in the work force i won't hire them. if gas goes to 15 a gallon i will just work harder to go to the lake every weekend like i have my whole life. maybe be harsh words but get over it, fill'em up and ride, even at 3 a gallon that would be about 150 for 2 days of rideing!!!! don't care if it costs me 200 the big b/h will ride every weekend till i die

[RickyR]

If there is ever a world war III, you can bet getting gas for the tanks and such will be impossible. Not to worry. You have that looked after ;)

If there is a WW III, hopefully we will have it in the middle east, nuke the fawkin' OPEC countries (mid-eastern), and take their oil. Case settled..:smash:
Hell, we're already over there. We are too nice on them, we should just take their assets in this country and let them know who is REALLY the boss.
Ricky...seeya...

[gcarter]

Take a look at;
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/usa.html
Interesting info.
CA IS the largest consumer of fuel, but TX is VERY close behind, but I'm not suggesting cutting out TX and floating it out to Mexico! :rlol: :smile:

[Ramman]

There is no reason for the prices to keep going up and up, opec and whoever else controls the prices are so full of BS, I've lost count of how many reasons I've heard over the past 6 months. GERO1, not all of us have the money to pay $3.00 a gallon, It cost me around $150 a week just to run my truck. We all work our ass off to pay for the things we have. But I shouldn't have to put half of my paycheck into my gas tank, and then the other quarter of it to taxes. This country is so f*cked up, and there's not a damn thing we can do about it. And yes the US does have billions and billions of oil reserve, but our lovely president jackass won't use it, because all of his money is in the oil overseas there's no way that incompitent jagoff would loose money for himself to help us.


1 vote to impeach George

[RedDog]

Careful Ranman - you may not know what you speak of. 1 - GW is trying to open up the national reserves that the Demos are continously trying to close down. Secondly I also suspect that Gero spends alot (I mean a hell of alot) more than 150 to run his truck each week.

You need to quit drinking the kool-aide man!

[Chili 18]

As a confirmed motorhead and speed freak... This is difficult to say. But the global surge in petroleum and natural resource consumption is unsustainable.

When it was the U.S. Post ww2, showing the world how to live a cozy life. All was good for us. When every chinaman, russian, and... fill in the blank, also wants a large cozy house and a car or two. Houston...we have a problem.

Drilling ANWR is a temporary "solution" at best. If we all were driving hybrids, the situation would be magnitudes better in terms of the longevity of global supply. But, that's not what we are doing. As the cup gets lower, we seem to be trying to enjoy one last big gulp before its all swill at the bottom of the proverbial cup.

Hydrogen fuel cells are promising. GM has a test fleet in operation in Washington dc. At least one large oil company, has plans to sell hydrogen alongside petrol products.

Our family problem... will be how to make 500 HP from a fuel cell engine.

Sorry... Seems this thread has become a place to talk about energy usage... My 2 cents. Of course... I cant wait to hit the lake later this week. To feel that rush.. pure adrenalin... Been waiting all winter... But in a longer term perspective... we may be the last generations to have such pleasures. Enjoy while we all still can.. Definitely shouldn't take it for granted!
:garfield:
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000039&refer=columnist_levin&sid=abVksgV4MTko

http://news.com.com/Energy+Department+joins+drive+for+fuel+cell+cars/2100-1047_3-5647258.html

http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=hydrogen-en

[Morgan's Cloud]

I know the price you guys are paying hurts but I'd love to see the tone of this thread if you were paying US $5.87 for a US gallon ! :kaioken:

[Rootsy]

you all DO know that we can manufacture fuel from renewable resources... problem is... it doesn't really like rubber so older vehicles will require a lot of seal replacements...

i vote to make the farmer rich again... not the shiek..

[boxy]

I know the price you guys are paying hurts but I'd love to see the tone of this thread if you were paying US $5.87 for a US gallon ! :kaioken:
Morgan's, I have that same discussion with my British born in-laws. Our discussions always revolve around SUV's vs Mini Cooper's, and it comes back to one thing every time, while they pay a premium in fuel prices, I drive more in a month than the average brit would drive in a year.
It sucks having to spend that much to run your boat, but how much fuel do you put through an automobile or a truck every year. It would be interesting to see a comparison on total fuel consumption.

[HamrenDan]

Funny how when Clinton was in office it was ok for Al Gore to sell off the Elk Hills reserve ( reserved for emergency military purposes for decades ) to Occidental petroleum ( hmm doesn't or didn't Al's daddy work for that company?? ). Yet when we have a huge amount of oil in the bleak desolate tundra known as Anwar, we cant touch it due to the caribou or other animals. I find it very interesting that they show pictures of southern Alaska when describing Anwar. Miles and miles to the south, because if they took pictures and vids of the real area, there is nothing there to give anyone a good reason NOT to drill there.

Here in California, we have a special blend depending on the time of year. If we had a generic blend we could import gas cheaper, there would not be shortages, and the price would drop. While its true that the refinerys are at 90 percent output, and if one went down that would mean trouble, but we have not built a new refinery in over 25 years... Think on that...

The bottom line is that the politicians make the rules, and right now the rules are laid out to make the oil companies money. It would be nice to say its all the Dems fault or all the Reps fault, but I believe its all OUR fault.. after all who elects these people.

You get the kind of government you elect. Maybe its time for some fresh blood!

My 2 cents ... which is roughly the value of said advice

[Morgan's Cloud]

Morgan's, I have that same discussion with my British born in-laws. Our discussions always revolve around SUV's vs Mini Cooper's, and it comes back to one thing every time, while they pay a premium in fuel prices, I drive more in a month than the average brit would drive in a year.
It sucks having to spend that much to run your boat, but how much fuel do you put through an automobile or a truck every year. It would be interesting to see a comparison on total fuel consumption.


Steve ,

Yes , our cars here are smaller than those in North America but because of our topography and overcrowding they generally are stuck in city cycle as far as fuel burn figures are concerned.

I try to make this comparison from our recreational (boating) perspective to keep it simple but since you asked you might be interested to know that I sold my car 13 years ago. I also have to make many other sacrifices to stay in this game. When you're paying that amount for fuel only the filthy rich don't care.

I've always maintained that had America been paying what we have for gas for the last 30 years, those creative minds (and there are no shortage of them) would have long ago been encouraged to find, or speed up, alternative fuel research and vastly improving the efficiency of domestic vehicles.

Nonetheless, how would the boating scene change there (US) if gas was (at least) $5 a gallon ?

Over on 'that other site' the subject has been discussed frequently and quite recently. There is a lot of sensible rationalising that makes me feel a bit better. I do however doubt it, when someone says that gas prices won't affect their style of boating. They have'nt yet had to pay $1000 to fill up their 200 gallon tank !

Steve

[farmer tx]

I'm with Rootsy!!! :cistineb:

[Rootsy]

TX,

i honestly think we need to go this route... it is inevitable... it's cleaner, more efficient, readily produced, readily available and by god, as the son and grandson of a farmerm born and raised i am sick and tired of see the good, hard working, god fearing folks who made this country with blood sweat and tears go broke and lose their dreams and livlihoods...

JR

[gcarter]

Steve ,

Yes , our cars here are smaller than those in North America but because of our topography and overcrowding they generally are stuck in city cycle as far as fuel burn figures are concerned.

I try to make this comparison from our recreational (boating) perspective to keep it simple but since you asked you might be interested to know that I sold my car 13 years ago. I also have to make many other sacrifices to stay in this game. When you're paying that amount for fuel only the filthy rich don't care.

I've always maintained that had America been paying what we have for gas for the last 30 years, those creative minds (and there are no shortage of them) would have long ago been encouraged to find, or speed up, alternative fuel research and vastly improving the efficiency of domestic vehicles.

Nonetheless, how would the boating scene change there (US) if gas was (at least) $5 a gallon ?

Over on 'that other site' the subject has been discussed frequently and quite recently. There is a lot of sensible rationalising that makes me feel a bit better. I do however doubt it, when someone says that gas prices won't affect their style of boating. They have'nt yet had to pay $1000 to fill up their 200 gallon tank !

Steve
I feel for you and Boxy both, but these comparisons don't work well when most of the price you pay is composed of taxes and has little to do with actual fuel costs. It's simply a fact of the societies you live in.
When the REAL fuel costs get to $5.00 / gallon, you may be right. But so far our government hasn't tied the price of gas to every social program some politician can dream up.
At this time;
1) the dollar value is down about 30%
2) we need to build refineries but can't because of environmentalists
3) the environmentalists demand we burn too many special fuels
4) the environmentalists prohibit drilling in many areas
5) the Chinese economy is red hot and they're competing for every drop of oil.
It's just too easy to blame it on the politicians. The whole subject is much more complicated than that.

[Pismo]

Yes, if anyone thinks little George Bush is controlling the price of oil.........I have a nice bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you.

[Morgan's Cloud]

All very valid points George ,

With the situation in China and India playing catchup rapidly the rest of the world will be competing even more for those limited reserves.
Certainly it seems as though one of the problems for the US is the limited refining capacity and that compounds the final price for you guys.
All of our fuel has for years come from Venezuela so it's a different ballgame for us.
And yes , the lion's share of our price is due to taxes.. heaven forbid what the price will look like if crude continues to climb , but Govt. coffers will look good for a while.. that is untill related inflation kicks in (even more than it is now).

At the end of the day though, one does'nt think too much about how the price has been determined... you're still paying a fortune for it !

Incidentally .. I topped off the bike last night ... current price is $5.92 a gallon , and as always I quote in US$ to make it clear.

I'm beginning to dread the thought of having boats that work once again !

Steve

[gcarter]

All of our fuel has for years come from Venezuela so it's a different ballgame for us.


Steve
And with Hugo Chaves as president of Venezuela, there may still be problems ahead for you!

[Darrell]

There is no reason for the prices to keep going up and up, opec and whoever else controls the prices are so full of BS, I've lost count of how many reasons I've heard over the past 6 months. GERO1, not all of us have the money to pay $3.00 a gallon, It cost me around $150 a week just to run my truck. We all work our ass off to pay for the things we have. But I shouldn't have to put half of my paycheck into my gas tank, and then the other quarter of it to taxes. This country is so f*cked up, and there's not a damn thing we can do about it. And yes the US does have billions and billions of oil reserve, but our lovely president jackass won't use it, because all of his money is in the oil overseas there's no way that incompitent jagoff would loose money for himself to help us.


1 vote to impeach George


Ranman:
Please don't look at your 401k or retirment plan, I don't think you want to see what is going on since the 1st of the month with stock market. On the other hand I don't blame Jr. for the high gas prices, however I don't think it worries him much, Big oil gave him his start and I don't look for him to try and lower prices by tappin the Nat'l reserves.

[Lenny]

I don't really care one way or the other, cuz, well,... as a Canadian we get screwed sooo many ways that it is impossible to focus on any one ill occurrence. Be it 300 million tax dollars used to buy the votes that got our current Government into power or a hundred other incidious events.

All I know is , today I paid $5.52 CAN (about $4.25 US) to fill up my work truck with Premium. On a bill of $142.00 at the bottom of the receipt it said (read) Total Taxes in Purchase,... $42.00 :eek:

That is what this place is all about. TAXES.

There are soo few of us here, and such a large land mass with sporatic, high maintenance infrastructure, and a Government that feels that it is no different than their American counterparts when it comes to wealth and reward (and a population less than a tenth the size :rolleyes: ) that we are not much better off than Steve in Bermuda.

First $45K of income (US$) , 27% tax on it plus 7% and 7% (14% in all) on any purchase, and the income over the $45K US mark is taxed at 43% :eek:

Make a $100,000.00 (our Dollars), ??? take home $16,200 to be paid tax (our dollars) on the first $60K, then, on the remaining $40K, pay $17,200 (our dollars) So that $100 G note turns into $66,600. :eek: Then with this money you have left over EVERY purchase other than popcorn or more than 6 donuts is taxed at 14%.

So, a $50K US dollar DONZI CLASSIC 22 would cost us with tax about $75K our dollars :eek: and then an appetite for $300 a fill up to be burned in a day. :(

It is no wonder why there is no desire to really try and get ahead here, cuz with a social mechanism in place that basically provides endlessly for the poor and the Politicans and BIG business LOOOONNGG before the Middle Class, soon we won't have one.

Neither will you. :(

Always on the wrong side of the coin,.... paying taxes,.. Lenny

[goatee]

rootsy, farmer,, ?? are you guys talking about the purple sticky punch? :jestera:

[boxy]

Purple Sticky Punch ..... nice reference..... :D
I think Roots, and FarmerTx were talking about Ethanol, not lettuce....

[roadtrip se]

even though the water is cold. I am staying out of the postualting about current gas prices, although it is good for some giggles...

On the topic of ethanol. Couple of questions for Roots and Farmertex. Everything I have ever heard or read basically stated that a business case for ethanol couldn't be made without heavy subsidies. If this isn't the case, then why hasn't it emerged as a viable alternative fuel on its own legs? Educate me.

What about this "Willie-fuel" I have started hearing about as an alternative to diesel made from soybeans or some other veggie oil?

What about diesel period? Everybody knows that diesel engines get 25-30% better mileage at a minimum than comparable gas engines. Are we all too cheap here in the States to pay the premium up front for these motors. Do we have to have it cheap up front AND at the pump?

Anybody driving a Hybrid here yet? I would love to hear your experiences with one of these vehicles. They sure seem to be selling like hot cakes, but I question their real world viability. Sure would like to hear some opinions.

I would think that all of these options would be more viable than driving by the Exxon/Mobil station on Tuesdays or demanding for the impeachment of our current President.

What do you think?

Todd
"Got to pay to play, owner of many more gas motors than I ever realized!"

[Ranman]

For the record, this is the first time I've read this post.

I am Ranman, i.e, Randy Oak from Michigan whose avatar has Dustin Hoffman as "Rainman", an inside joke to many. I'm also a big fan of Ford's, Mustangs, Kid Rock and Eminem (sorry Darcy). I like windshields, and MerCruisers and I tease men who drive Miatas. :D :D

The originator of this post is Ramman, an individual from Illinois


I just want everyone to be clear as to who the author of this thread is so there are no misconceptions.


Thanks.

[goatee]

yes!!! i have read some posts thinking it was you randy.
wondering when you got a 21' and if you still had the 18'?
but i see now.
p.s. boxy,,, i couldnt help it... that movie was just on the other day.